Us in the future : technological civilisation or what ?

Esote

Dagobah Resident
The facts that any kind of technology leads to :

- environmental destruction (even with the Green Deal scam or, worst, with "free" energy like would be nuclear fusion for instance, which may only aggravate the human impacts on Earth),
- needs an authoritarian society where the exploitation of people and nature at large is the rule,

make me wonder about what the C's and forum members have to say about such an essential question.

The kind of future in store is very limited if we keep destroying life with "Progress" for our materialistic comfort in 3D, and using technological means in order to reach higher levels of evolution seems to be a huge, impossible paradox, isn't it ?
 
The facts that any kind of technology leads to :

- environmental destruction (even with the Green Deal scam or, worst, with "free" energy like would be nuclear fusion for instance, which may only aggravate the human impacts on Earth),
- needs an authoritarian society where the exploitation of people and nature at large is the rule,

The C's have said our future is 4D, so the possibilities are potentially endless and far beyond our wildest dreams. So when speaking about a future (of which there are probably many), there's no reason to assume any technology will lead to environmental destruction. Nor is there any reason to assume that any technology needs authoritarian rule.

There have been technologies on 3D earth that weren't wholly destructive and enslaving, and could have been said to be highly STO-aligned. The secret ancient technology is in fact human beings, as Laura wrote in Secret History of the World. Do you remember the discussion of the 'circle people' who sang to the stones and received everything they needed? That's probably the best example I can think of.

We live in an STS realm, so it makes good sense that today's environmental catastrophe, and the main use of today's technology, is mostly a result of psychopaths in power, plus left-brained ignorance. If there was a future where psychopaths were not in power, but there was more of a 'level playing field', and also maybe souls who had more a balance of right and left brains - and also a 4D future of variable physicality - then we can also imagine there is, at the very least, a distinct probability that there will be a technology that is not so damaging to people and planet. There is even a possibility that there will be future technologies that are health-enhancing for All and Everything. OSIT.

make me wonder about what the C's and forum members have to say about such an essential question.

The kind of future in store is very limited if we keep destroying life with "Progress" for our materialistic comfort in 3D, and using technological means in order to reach higher levels of evolution seems to be a huge, impossible paradox, isn't it ?

Yeah, what's called Progress is a difficult notion to untangle. Heidegger already put his finger on it nearly a hundred years ago in his essay On the Question Concerning Technology. It's one of the key themes in the rise of the West - what precisely has been done in our name? How did we get here? What are the implications? And then there are various philosophical camps who accept it, or reject it, or even ignore it completely.

I think Progress through technology has obviously made lives better. At the same time, it has also made them much worse. As Gurdjieff said, civilization is violence and slavery and fine words. I like how Walter Benjamin describes it, too:

A Klee painting named Angelus Novus shows an angel looking as though he is about to move away from something he is fixedly contemplating. His eyes are staring, his mouth is open, his wings are spread. This is how one pictures the angel of history. His face is turned toward the past. Where we perceive a chain of events, he sees one single catastrophe which keeps piling wreckage upon wreckage and hurls it in front of his feet. The angel would like to stay, awaken the dead, and make whole what has been smashed. But a storm is blowing from Paradise; it has got caught in his wings with such violence that the angel can no longer close them. The storm irresistibly propels him into the future to which his back is turned, while the pile of debris before him grows skyward. This storm is what we call progress.

Just as an example, the colonization of Native peoples in the Americas was terrible. But it turns out the C's say it was akin to paying for their time as the violent Atlanteans, so karma is involved. In a way, it could be seen as divine justice. Another example is the various improvements that the bloodthirsty Mongols brought to the people they conquered. Civilizations are weird system that usually improves things through horror and destruction. But that's how nature works, too - a wildfire clears the dead wood and makes room for new growth.

And in the same way, comets are destructive forces, and also forces of regeneration, as noted in Pierre's last book, as well as Randall Carlson's series of essays on the Holy Grail. Destruction and Creation go hand in hand.

I used to spend a lot of time in the anti-Progress, anti-technology, anti-civilization camp. Nowadays, not so much. But I also resist the temptation to romanticize a new techno-future, and become totally pro-Progress. Like, all those high-tech Chinese cities don't impress me much. For me, the question of Progress has become something different than simply choosing a side, it's more of attempting to remember that I don't know much, and so I try to understand how we got here, and bear witness to what's around me.

As for the future in store being very limited, maybe, but I wouldn't say that, either. It depends on what you mean by limited. Maybe things need to be limited for a while so they can grow later one. The universe is infinitely powerful:

Feb 23, 2002:
A: When the universe is ready to revive dead coral, you can bet it will revive.

In the same way, when you are ready to revive your soul, you can bet it will revive. It all depends on which future you attract through your daily choices and actions. That's the Progress that makes sense to me - my own personal Progress in the Work, and my own actions in daily life. I don't worry about using technology as being a paradox, or being trapped in materialism or whatever. I see no paradox. Our world is what it is, and I can't change it, I just do the best I can with what I have in my own little corner. Getting too comfortable and falling asleep, however, is a good one to keep an eye out for, and that's a big trap of technology, which can generally be understood as a labor-saving device. Once we start relying on it too much, it weakens the spirit IMO. Intentional suffering becomes even more important in an era when machines are slowly rocking us to sleep.
 
- environmental destruction (even with the Green Deal scam or, worst, with "free" energy like would be nuclear fusion for instance, which may only aggravate the human impacts on Earth),
- needs an authoritarian society where the exploitation of people and nature at large is the rule,
I recommend you the book from Laura “Secret History”
You will realize that everything is practically cyclical, as iamthatis pointed out, many people will have a future in another reality/realm if that’s their destiny, for those who are to continuing their existence on earth, most likely a reset on our civilization will happen again, as it happened many times before, according to the Cs, the previous one, Atlantis, managed to get very technological, more than we could imagine and see what’s left from that them? Just some megalithic remains here and there… so yes, we can get more “advanced” on that sense but at the end, no matter how technology we can get, if is not used for the benefit of the universe, and to aid to our souls development, it will be doomed sooner or later and another reset most likely will occur.
 
it makes good sense that today's environmental catastrophe, and the main use of today's technology, is mostly a result of psychopaths in power, plus left-brained ignorance ...
we can also imagine there is, at the very least, a distinct probability that there will be a technology that is not so damaging to people and planet.
Or may be it can only be that way with any kind of technology, because of its fundamental nature "where the exploitation of people and nature at large is the rule", starting with the need to dominate, control and force one's way on people and the environment
Progress through technology has obviously made lives better. At the same time, it has also made them much worse ...
Civilizations are weird system that usually improves things through horror and destruction
Better in a materialist point of view for a few people, at the expense of more or less everything else
And in the same way, comets are destructive forces, and also forces of regeneration ...
Destruction and Creation go hand in hand
the question of Progress has become something different than simply choosing a side, it's more of attempting to remember that I don't know much, and so I try to understand how we got here, and bear witness to what's around me.
Totally agree. That's why we do need balance and knowing...
As for the future in store being very limited, maybe, but I wouldn't say that, either. It depends on what you mean by limited. Maybe things need to be limited for a while so they can grow later one
So limited in the curent context that humanity could disappear from this 3D planet
it all depends on which future you attract through your daily choices and actions. That's the Progress that makes sense to me - my own personal Progress in the Work, and my own actions in daily life. I don't worry about using technology as being a paradox, or being trapped in materialism or whatever. I see no paradox. Our world is what it is, and I can't change it, I just do the best I can with what I have in my own little corner
Yes. Thank you iamthatis for your input
 
I recommend you the book from Laura “Secret History”
You will realize that everything is practically cyclical ... no matter how technology we can get, if is not used for the benefit of the universe, and to aid to our souls development, it will be doomed sooner or later and another reset most likely will occur.
The cyclical pattern of Life seems quite obvious and Laura's “Secret History” is a must read.
In the case of our present humanity, the matter isn't about the uses of technology but about it's existence itself, OSIT. If it is the problem, then there might be a clue to know how to catch the next "best" cycle by the tail
 
Or may be it can only be that way with any kind of technology, because of its fundamental nature "where the exploitation of people and nature at large is the rule", starting with the need to dominate, control and force one's way on people and the environment

Yes, and this is Heidegger's point. He writes that technology is not a material object, but rather a mindset, a techne, or a technique, that sees everything as 'standing reserve'.

What 'standing reserve' means is that a forest becomes a certain number of board feet to be cut down and pulped for toilet paper, and not a zone of life, an entire world in itself, something sacred. Or a human being is not a vast, complex entity, a living story, but a worker with a number, a voter, someone to be manipulated and controlled. A river is only seen as a resource, something to be dammed or used as a transportation corridor, and not a mysterious flow of life itself. A child is not a miracle, but a problem to be solved by statisticians, behaviouralists, pharmaceutical companies, etc. So what does this do to the world? Disenchantment, to borrow a term from Max Weber, who borrowed it from the poet Schiller.

The C's have said that thought is fundamental, and in that sense, I think Heidegger is right in pointing to the question of technology. Is technology just stuff that was invented, tools and machines and processes, that makes our lives better? God, no. It's the result of Western thinking, what some would call 'the endo-colonization of the West'. Indigenous thinkers have noted that in order to perpetuate the horrors of genocide that were unleashed on their populations by Western Europeans, the whites had to succumb to the Wetiko virus themselves first, become fully possessed by it. And there was an esoteric hidden hand that was behind this, be it undergrounders and psychopaths or 4DSTS direct influence. McGilchrist's way of talking about this is that they had let the emotionless, instrumentalizing left hemisphere run amok before they could be come soulless enough to do what they did - and what they continue to do. And as Lobaczewski wrote, it starts with the elites, and the people are more or less caught up in the current, trying to keep their heads above water, focused on their daily concerns.

But there is black and white thinking, and then there is the full spectrum of colour. What is clear to me now is that while there were horrors, and there was violence, and also the condemnation of so many humans to a despicable, hollowed-out and disenchanted life, or even a life trapped in bizarre bureaucratic nightmares as described in Kafka's novels, there also were improvements and incredible discoveries revealed via this techne mindset. That would be the result of a technology focused on what could be called 'true science', which appears alongside the ponerized version in our recent history. In that sense, I can appreciate Heidegger, who says all technology is fundamentally exploitative, but I'm also tempted to leave his hut in the black forest, because the earth is also our Mother and gives to us of her resources freely, being the matriarch of the school we're living in. And there is a chance for us to choose to see these resources as gifts from a vast living being, and in so doing make good use of them, not take them for granted, and turn the techne mindset towards good aims.

Laura is writing a great series right now, and she discusses the way in which a non-ponerized science could in fact solve all the world's problems.


I would like to invite you to stop and try to imagine what life on Earth might be like if science had actually fulfilled its mandate of explaining our reality, solving the problems of humanity, and teaching us how to best interact with our world and each other. If science was – today – actually a free exploration of nature and drawing accurate conclusions, creating theories, testing those theories with no hidden agendas, what might it have accomplished up to now? Can you do it? Can you think of any area of life that could not be improved by having a truly scientific understanding and clearly described response that was supported and implemented by the social/power structure to the benefit of all of humanity, not just the enrichment of a few?

Oh, you think it has been done? Think again. Read the history of science and human social development. When you see how repeatedly the few individuals who had the right idea were marginalized and/or destroyed, if you have any firing neurons after being born into a humanity which has been genetically manipulated to lower intelligence, you will immediately realize that the same conditions – only worse – prevail today: what the mainstream follows is almost always what is politically expedient to those in power, with only enough truth involved to patch over the obvious tears in the now disintegrating fabric of the mask of science.

If a true, free, intelligent science, supported and encouraged by all of society, had actually been the norm since its inception, not the exception, we would live in a world where our very existence was not a shame to the planet that gave us birth. We would have free, clean energy. We would not have vast numbers of human beings living in poverty or starving. We would have no over-population problems. Health issues that dominate Western society and are bringing it to its knees would not be a problem because there would be plenty of nourishing food for all. There would be no wars because scientific anthropology and social psychology would have figured out what is the best of all possible forms of social structure that allows for the widest expression of human types to flourish in harmony. Children would not be medicated at ever younger ages because cognitive science would have established the best way to rear and educate them, and couples would be able to attend classes on infant care and parenting that were actually effective. The best forms of education would be known so that the widest variety of options would be available to the varied human types and levels of intelligence and skill so that each individual would progress into a life of satisfaction doing what they really enjoy and are best at doing, and society would benefit by not wasting its most precious resource: human beings.

Consciousness – and non-material spirit – would be understood and the proper reverence for Nature and the Cosmos would be a natural part of the lives of all, and the well-known religious feelings in human beings would be directed toward compassion and empathy, not used by manipulative leaders to incite anger, aggression and death.
Free will, rather than being outright denied in science and philosophy as well as in very real terms politically, would be respected as the sacred principle that it is. In short, humankind would know how to live in harmony not only with each other, but with the world in which they are born.

All of these COULD be the conditions of a world where true science is a valued part of society. It could have been our world.

But that isn't what we have today. What we have today is the chaos produced by pathological individuals that induces consent from the authoritarian followers. As I noted above, science took a wrong turn when it was co-opted by power and diverted to the purposes of imperialism and materialistic greed.

This is the perspective of science freed from the Wetiko virus, freed from greed and psychopathy, a science that is based on the pursuit of Goodness, Beauty and Truth. In McGilchrist's terms, he would say it would be indicative of the proper balance of the hemispheres. The left hemisphere takes things apart. The right hemisphere puts them back together. I see Laura's writing as opening up a very important window that shows the possibility of this reintegration of science into cherishing life itself. It's a very important thought in our historical period, where it seems that there is no alternative to what we humans have been living through, and things only seem to be getting worse. McGilchrist:
...built into the relationship between the hemispheres is that they have a different take on everything – including on their own relationship. Neurological research reveals a consistent picture of how the two hemispheres contribute to the richness of experience. Essentially this is that the right hemisphere tends to ground experience; the left hemisphere then works on it to clarify, ‘unpack’ and generally render the implicit explicit; and the right hemisphere finally reintegrates what the left hemisphere has produced with its own understanding, the explicit once more receding, to produce a new, now enriched, whole.

So the West has been unpacking like crazy, but without the necessary reintegration of the various pieces that have been taken apart. I think that's what Laura is getting at above with her phrase true science (which implies a true technology). McGillchrist uses as wonderful muscial metaphor to describe how this reintegration might work. I really like it because the C's have said 3D is a frequency envelope, a sort of orchestra, and so we can also imagine him talking about our own 3D experience on this planet in the following:

Note that the two ways of attending are both necessary and, strictly speaking, incompatible, at least at the same level and at the same time.

This could be thought of as similar to the way a performer learns a piece of music. First, he or she is attracted to the piece as a whole and has a sense of how it works overall; then the piece is taken apart, its harmonic structure analysed, certain passages of notes practised repeatedly, and so on; but, finally, all that must be banished from the performer’s mind if the performance is not to be hobbled and stilted.

This is not to deny the importance of the left hemisphere’s contribution, just to make clear that it works its necessary effects at an intermediate stage. Problems arise when this is treated as the end stage. In terms of the metaphor of the Master [right brain] and his emissary [left brain], the Master realises the need for an emissary to do certain work on his behalf (which he, the Master, must not involve himself with) and report back to him. That is why he appoints the emissary in the first place.

The emissary, however, knowing less than the Master, thinks he knows everything and considers himself the real Master, thus failing to carry out his duty to report back. The right hemisphere’s view is inclusive, ‘both/and’, synthetic, integrative; it realises the need for both. The left hemisphere’s view is exclusive, ‘either/or’, analytic and fragmentary – but, crucially, unaware of what it is missing. It therefore thinks it can go it alone.

This all echoes what Gurdjieff said - the power of the West needs to be balanced by the wisdom of the East, lest the world be destroyed. But even then, destruction is already here and now. And it's part of a natural cycle. And I think the great historical problems will always persist. I don't think they'll ever be solved, resulting in utopia, but rather it's more like they'll shed their skin and transform, and present new lessons. At any rate, a balance of East and West, or Left and Right, will help us navigate the troubling times ahead.
 
All there are are lessons, isn't what the Cs said that we will find on 3D?

Good and evil are both at play to give choices to the human kind, that's seems to be a necessity on this plane but also I believe on the next 4D - balance of the universe IMO
 
True science needs at least a 3D STO world to allow a "true technology", with little to no impact nor enslavement, to emerge.
In our 3D STS world I can't see any ensuing technology which would be sustainable or neutral, as mainstream science (medias) puts it.
If technology is firstly a mindset, as in Heidegger's point (a very good one moreover), then true science is linked to STO from 3D to, essentially, higher realms (4D...) where technology as we know doesn't apply, OSIT. (Meaning somehow that we wont need any technology, which anyway implies some kind of exploitation).
Then, I don't know what parts of nowadays technology, if any, could be worth considering as beneficial to us and the universe, except of course as lessons (and once you understand that it burns you keep away from it)
 
True science needs at least a 3D STO world to allow a "true technology", with little to no impact nor enslavement, to emerge.
In our 3D STS world I can't see any ensuing technology which would be sustainable or neutral, as mainstream science (medias) puts it.
If technology is firstly a mindset, as in Heidegger's point (a very good one moreover), then true science is linked to STO from 3D to, essentially, higher realms (4D...) where technology as we know doesn't apply, OSIT. (Meaning somehow that we wont need any technology, which anyway implies some kind of exploitation).
Then, I don't know what parts of nowadays technology, if any, could be worth considering as beneficial to us and the universe, except of course as lessons (and once you understand that it burns you keep away from it)

If technology is a mindset, or if our technological inventions are the product of a mindset, that mindset would be mostly left-brained, which operates by black-and-white thinking and instrumentalization, or seeing things only in terms of their parts and their use, as well as the logic of clear solutions to problems, linearity, etc. It's operative phrase is 'either/or'.

The difficulty is that this mindset can get tangled up in paradox because the real world is much bigger than it can handle. For instance, if we start thinking that we have to either accept or reject technology, this is the same 'either/or' thinking that got us here in the first place.

The right brain holistic thinking sees wholes, and understand all things of Creation as 'ends in themselves', and not just means to an end. It can transcend 'either/or' thinking. It's typified by 'both/and' thinking. It's inclusive, and makes room for mystery, understanding that the whole is more than the sum of its parts. It also makes room for non-linearity. That's why we don't have to either accept or reject technology IMO. We have the option of adopting a stance of bearing witness to what's going on around us, resisting the urge to make strong conclusions, or the urge to solve the problem of technology, once and for all. We can both accept it and reject it at the same time.

As you say, it burns you, so you keep away from it. but is also keeps me warm, so I keep as close as I can. It's kind of like a Zen koan, which gets us out of the constricted left-brain worldview and into something more comfortable (at least for me).
 
The main purpose of this thread isn't so much about whether accepting or rejecting (industrial) technology, it's more about understanding what is really this technology, its mindset and, if ever, its place in our future.

The crux of the matter is that in order to build such a technological civilisation as ours, enslavement, coercition, mass control together with exploitation and destruction of nature (the world which sustains us) are necessary, unavoidable means (whatever energy is being used).
The related mindset might be mostly left-brained but, much more, it does look like a typical psychopathic mindset, where basically power over people is the drive for personal comfort only, not really understanding or even caring about the consequences.

I guess you wouldn't want to keep as close as you can to such a mindset and get along with it in your future.
Although we are more or less totally immersed into this 3D STS world and we have to deal with it as it is, knowledge may protect us from repeating the same mistakes and be able to reach the next cycle in a more advanced loop.
A lot of discernment is needed in Lucifer's tricky realm, showing a light that, instead of enlightening Being, burns It to ashes, or so it seems to my conditioned point of view
 
I think our tech is a reflection of ourselves. Just like the general state of the planet, or the human condition. Just like our food or medicine, tech is controlled by greedy corporations run by psychopaths with a power/profit motive. My brother likes to say, “the way you do anything is the way you do everything” and it applies here. We are machines and so we create tech for reasons that are not reflective of a conscious understanding of ourselves. Rarely is the question asked “does this serve the highest good of our development as a species?” when we develop a new tech. But this question isn’t asked for pretty much anything else either. And even when asked, without knowing ourselves, how could we answer it objectively?

So in a way, asking if tech is part of our future is like asking if governments or politics are part of our future. How do such structures work in an STO world? I think if we did not have so much industrialization and materialistic consumerism we wouldn’t be polluting. I think even today we have the knowledge to have amazing tech and not hurt ourselves or the planet if that truly was our goal. Never mind all the tech that is suppressed and the inventors killed. If we were an STO species we would also do a lot more channeling and honest prayer. We would have access to the information field and get all sorts of assistance for our growth. We would have a lot more contact with the creative side of the universe en masse, and probably not need a lot of the same tech anyway because it can be replaced with psychic abilities if we made it a point to develop them.
 
Last edited:
I forgot to mention networking. Imagine having a community or global discussion before any new “thing” is brought forth. Take this forum and imagine the whole world is organized in multiple networks, and everything is always considered and discussed and carefully researched. No patents, secrecy, manipulation, marketing, etc. Just an open and honest and informed conversation, which is always a part of our daily life in the community and the planet. The fruits of such a community could never be destructive.
 
I think even today we have the knowledge to have amazing tech and not hurt ourselves or the planet if that truly was our goal.
Since any technological development on an industrial scale requires some kind of exploitation, forcing one's own will on people and the environment, I don't think so.
And if its related technological mindset is akin to the psychopathic one, as mentioned previously, how may we keep going along with its development, be it green or whatever?
Actually the rephrased question is : Do we need any technology in order to reach the next level, or is it just the reflection of our (end cycle) devolution?
True science can't be technological, or how could it be?
 
Then, I don't know what parts of nowadays technology, if any, could be worth considering as beneficial to us and the universe, except of course as lessons (and once you understand that it burns you keep away from it)
In our modern day, we're flooded with "new tech". Physical and Digital automation, self driving cars, all this "high" tech stuff - its almost all we can see.

What do you think about a toilet? A waste processing system? In my local city, there's at least one waste processing plant that does it as naturally as possible, because its intent is to refill the local river. Yea, the plant itself needed the steel to build the drums that hold the waste, concrete for the surrounding structure. But, its designed to regulate bacteria colony to process the waste, filtering it such that the water comes out a natural clean to be put back into the river for the wildlife that live downriver, halfway across the state. The only reason I know about it is I got to tour it when in school :-P There's no advertisement for it, no big emphasis on it, even locally. Obviously it doesn't process ALL of the city's waste, but its the only plant for that particular portion of the city's waste. Is this technology beneficial to us, to the universe?

I think technology is only as good as the mindset, if you got bad mindset there's going to be poor tech, or even good tech poorly implemented. Much like artwork:
technology (n.) 1610s, "a discourse or treatise on an art or the arts," from Latinized form of Greek tekhnologia "systematic treatment of an art, craft, or technique," originally referring to grammar, from tekhno-, combining form of tekhnē "art, skill, craft in work; method, system, an art, a system or method of making or doing," from PIE *teks-na- "craft" (of weaving or fabricating), from suffixed form of root *teks- "to weave," also "to fabricate." For ending, see -logy.


The meaning "study of mechanical and industrial arts" as a branch of knowledge (Century Dictionary, 1895, gives as examples "spinning, metal-working, or brewing") is recorded by 1859. High technology is attested by 1964; short form high-tech by 1972.
 
@lindrie Industrial technology is never ever neutral. You need a coercitive mass civilisation in order to built it. And the mindset needed for its accomplishment is a psychopathic one AFAIK
 
Back
Top Bottom