USA heading for Destruction

JayMark said:
Perceval said:
The living system itself is creative, obviously. That leaf insect probably evolved without much input from itself or its predecessors, self-reflective being. What I mean is, they didn't consciously interact with the processes of their own evolution. Then again, humans probably didn't either with theirs. At some point, perhaps, individual entities have the chance to play an active, conscious part in their own evolution, in the next step, assuming they have enough consciousness to play that conscious part. Or, perhaps, after a certain point, there is no next step unless it is taken, or chosen, by the entity itself. Otherwise, it just cycles around.

I like this part. Perhaps there's a level, a point where a next step of the evolution requires a fully-conscious choise to be made by the being itself. And perhaps this step is going from 3D to 4D. Or it could be going from STS to STO as well, which would happen in 4D according to the C's. Or more so, it could even be required for every other step following the first that is consciously made. Lots of avenues here.

Anyhow, good way to unify free will with causality. I bet Darwin didn't see than one coming.

I think you guys are onto something here. The discussion reminds me what the Cs said about the initial embodiment of souls this cycle, how the soul matrix in some way upgraded the native "sub-human" 3D residents of Earth. If we're on the cusp of a possible jump in evolution of that calibre here, from human to some kind of "supra-human" (4D) - perhaps it is the first tandem evolution of human body and soul, which indeed would need a more advanced soul from the "sub-human" change because of it's evolution & experiences - especially increasingly more conscious ones. What I'm visualising here is the soul growing to such an extent since its initial embodiment, along with the vehicle it's riding in, all the time overwriting DNA with its soul matrix. Then there perhaps comes the time when they are fully merged, and there comes that proper time of a fully conscious decision of STS vs STO for each (& maybe even for the species as a whole at some point), and as a result, it somehow brings with it variable physicality, because the needs of the soul have become different. Could this be part of the mechanics of the evolution from 3D to 4D?
 
Guardian said:
I often wonder if psychopathy isn't an evolutionary step for humanity? At what point do emotions hinder survival in an over populated environment? When do compassion and empathy become a liability?

This is an interesting question. I tend to think that over population might in fact contribute to psychopathy both in terms of
begetting more "people" with those traits, and also in terms of creating a hectic concrete jungle in which the beings lacking in
empathy are able to rise above on the bones of those they trample to secure themselves and thus propagate.
Both being complimentary obviously.

Though, in light of the view here that an intelligence / intelligences might be governing evolutionary processes.. I tend to think of psychopathy more as an aberration which flourishes under certain circumstances (i.e. the state of the world we are in).
The brains themselves of psychopaths seem to be different, but not in a way that would suggest an alternative evolutionary branch, more in a maimed / malformed human sense. Lacking in human faculties that exist in "normal" brains. But we could also say; Perhaps there are two different guiding evolutionary forces. One that leads the soul-potential group and one that controls the non-empathetic group.

some thoughts, fwiw

Edit: Clarity.
 
Guardian said:
Perceval said:
Then the question is: what is one of the primary goals of the living system? Looking at these animals it seems to be "adapt to survive". So if we assume that humans are part of the living system, perhaps the same applies to us. But then question is, how do we do that? Has nature endowed us with an evolutionary mechanism that would allow us to adapt to survive against our predators?

I often wonder if psychopathy isn't an evolutionary step for humanity? At what point do emotions hinder survival in an over populated environment? When do compassion and empathy become a liability?

Perhaps individually, it can confer benefits in some situations that ensure survival and reproduction of a particular gene. Macrosocially and ecologically though, it may yet to be seen whether it will still be able to maintain equilibrium with the rest of the biosphere.

I think what would be more evolutionarily adaptive for us, rather than killing our ability to empathize with others, we could perhaps grow our rational decision-making process and inclination for delayed gratification, so that we may treat long-term, abstract problems (the the depletion of agricultural soil) as seriously and viscerally as a broken arm. When we are able to see more than 150 other human beings as human. Perhaps the coming economic collapse is meant to pose as an evolutionary bottleneck to up-regulate those long-term-thinking genes in the population.

To Perceval, "animals adapting to survive" would be true in a subjective or cellular sense. Of course, the fact that 99.999% of all animal species which have ever lived are already extinct doesn't mean the biosphere failed in an objective sense, despite how brutish and short the lives of innumerable life forms may have been. To adapt what Lierre Keith once said (cows need to be eaten just as much as humans need to eat), maybe the higher negative STS forces need to assimilate the intelligence of the lower densities to maintain the overall metabolism of intelligence in the universe. Perhaps our only purpose is to see the futility of it all, but again even that is subjective! Perhaps the cosmic programs and rules can be rewritten, but that comes back down to free will and super efforts. I barely understand my own machine. How on earth am I to grasp the machinations of the universe? We're like ants on a battlefield.

I wish I had more answers. I guess trying to gain objective knowledge is the only consistent guide here...
 
Just looking at a few parts to this thread.

Then the question is: what is one of the primary goals of the living system? Looking at these animals it seems to be "adapt to survive". So if we assume that humans are part of the living system, perhaps the same applies to us. But then question is, how do we do that? Has nature endowed us with an evolutionary mechanism that would allow us to adapt to survive against our predators? Or at the human level is it all about free will?

Think the latter (free will) cannot be lessened in importance. Perhaps whether we survive in the physical is not as important as is surviving being free of yoked consciousness. Free will ignites awareness thus helping to create beneficial frequency; a type of force against the opposite entropic forces operating against living systems. The problem with the quote below is the “veil”, yet some measures of this seem to be intuitive and have been available in human beings since long ago. The entropic system tries its best to dumb it down and remove free will and mould thought to its own ends. It is hard to think about surviving outside of 3d concept, in realms and densities foreign to understanding; veiled. The intelligence that seems to permeate in the universe is there to see and as such our concept of survival seems to include other things beyond our awareness, osit.

A: First awareness of the choice comes. Then making the choice. Then enhancing the energy to graduate. The problem of 3rd density is identifying what to choose, since so much is veiled from you.

In nature, there seems to be many mechanisms of survival and some come in the form of being what appears at first to be total destruction. A forest is infested with insects (pine beetle as example) that brood, thrive and swarm, eating and killing the forest like mowed down grass. The trees die, some fall to the ground as fuel and fire ignites and cleans out what is left of the broods and fiber, providing new nutrients, and also gives a spark to the seeds that lay dormant upon soils creating new healthy life once again. Some species may borrow underground for years and surface again with the rains. Many examples of life's living systems include mechanisms of these types and intelligence seems to be weaved throughout these systems - note Perceval’s photos.

Of survival, The C’s offered this quote about living systems which might be apt:

A: When the universe is ready to revive dead coral, you can bet it will revive.

[quote author=Guardian]

I often wonder if psychopathy isn't an evolutionary step for humanity? At what point do emotions hinder survival in an over populated environment? When do compassion and empathy become a liability?
[/quote]

Yes interesting question as it sure seems to have grown incrementally consistent with population expansion. Yet from what is discussed here, there seems to be spikes in certain political and socio economic circles. Maybe like nature (here in analogy), when growth mediums are depleted (societal nutrients) and populations or species densities reach certain thresholds, they become subjected to blights. Of species affected by blights, if they are not done in outright, they come out in a weekend state. The second part, about emotions hindering, lack of compassion and empathy being a liability, seems like these qualities are often tinkered with by our very social programming (west generally) with our egocentrism that seems so fully accepted with much that we see in entertainment and “getting ahead” of the next guy programs; maybe. The reason for thinking this stems from what we see in the world, and as the C’s discussed about geographical areas (countries) having less and more than the world average of psychopathology in a given population. Without looking at the figures given, it seemed that many countries with low percentages < 4% (seems still dangerously high) contained large human populations. These tended to be places that don’t yet subscribe to the west overall thinking/programming as described above re social, and i’ll add, capitalistic programs. What were the numbers for developed west countries, 6 – 40%? If so, this is pretty shocking and suggests that being tinkered with by societal programming may have a role to play – can’t figure this out vis via genetics. Maybe this goes back to the C’s talking about FVR being so important a profile to assist in 4d sts suitability. If this is so, would not the programming we see being used work to those end in the west – harden up the profile, dampen out those finer human qualities – erase them or make people forget or feel guilty if they exist? Societies like this seems to ascribe a type of inferior-being connotation to people who exhibit emotions, compassion and empathy - they want strength; under there terms of course. In a way Guardian, think you are correct in that perhaps having those traits amongst a high percentage of a population with psychopathic profiles is a liability that they count on. Is it evolutionary? If seems based on discussions here, that it has its foundation in genetics. Is it from being of this “parasitically” infect bloodline? The reckless procreation activities has been discussed here of people of this type who try to pass on their genetics. Why the concentrations? Then there was the references to karmic rebirth considerations (FVR?) said early in the transcripts that could account for higher percentages like what was in the mythos of Atlantis once, shifting to pre war Germany, then to Israel etcetera. Can a given society create more? Think this is where the struggle is and it may be more related toxins, food et al and to types as Andrew Lobaczewski (AML) describes, inclusive of authoritarian followers; they may not have the genetics yet can easily be swayed to act out in characteropathies:

Note: AML uses 5 – 7 % of elementary school children exhibiting these damages that they develop in later life.

AML said:
In a much larger segment of the bearers of brain tissue damage, the negative deformation of their characters grows in the course of time. It takes on variegated mental pictures, depending upon the properties and localization of these changes, their time of origin, and also the life conditions of the individual after their occurrence. We will call such character disorders - characteropathies. Some characteropathies play an outstanding role as pathological agents in the processes of the genesis of evil. Let us thus characterize these most active ones.

Characteropathies reveal a certain similar quality, if the clinical picture is not dimmed by the coexistence of other mental anomalies (usually inherited), which sometimes occur in practice. Undamaged brain tissue retains our species' natural psychological properties. This is particularly evident in instinctive and affective responses, which are natural, albeit often insufficiently controlled.

The experience of people with such anomalies grows in the medium of the normal human world to which they belong by nature. Thus their different way of thinking, their emotional violence, and their egotism find relatively easy entry into other people's minds and are perceived within the categories of the everyday world Such behavior on the part of persons with such character disorders traumatizes the minds and feelings of normal people, gradually diminishing the ability of the normal person to use their common sense. In spite of their resistance, victims of the characteropath become used to the rigid habits of pathological thinking and experiencing. If the victims are young people, the result is that the personality suffers abnormal development leading to its malformation.

Characteropaths and their victims thus represent pathological, ponerogenic factors which, by their covert activity, easily engender new phases in the eternal genesis of evil, opening the door to a later activation of other factors which thereupon take over the main role.
 
Guardian said:
I often wonder if psychopathy isn't an evolutionary step for humanity? At what point do emotions hinder survival in an over populated environment? When do compassion and empathy become a liability?

What I think is that when for example a certain mutation occurs at a genetic level (plus some other possible factors occurring) and the result being a ''human being'' with no conscience, I'm sure that that ''type'' of human being wouldn't survive long in a world of educated and conscious human beings, whether it'd be a world of overpopulated people or not. I think the key would be knowledge and the sharing of knowledge. If we'd live in a fair world where there would only, so to speak, be one truth that everybody would agree on based on data, experience and facts, the behavior of a psychopathic individual would be unacceptable and thus this individual would be kicked out or imprisoned by the society.

However, the world we live in is populated by ignorant people who have little solid knowledge and awareness of these kind of people, though they may have some kind of a vague idea from movies and such. Even psychologists don't have all the knowledge and still believe that such ''human beings'' can be treated. If we are ignorant, we can't efficiently use the tools (such as compassion and empathy) that nature gave to us. In an ignorant world we feel sorry and try to help psychopathic individuals, or try to see them as broken people who didn't get the compassion and love they'd deserved... with the end result being: more misinformation being spread regarding psychopathy, which means less truth spread about them, which means, more ignorant people who remain to be potential victims for the ''unnoticed'' psychopath. In a knowledgeable world, compassion and empathy, would be used naturally and with conscience and awareness to help those who truly are in need and to spread awareness to other societies, and to not help or support those, either directly or indirectly, who are merely wolves in sheep's clothing. So I think that human capabilities of compassion and empathy can only become liabilities if there is no knowledge or awareness or atleast a network where objective discussions are possible.

Obviously if knowledge of such types of human being wouldn't be available, both objective observation and experience, would eventually (I would think) point them out, which then can lead to a ''ban'' so to speak from the society. And then this knowledge can be passed on, and so forth.

Hope the above makes some sense, fwiw.
 
Guardian said:
Perceval said:
Then the question is: what is one of the primary goals of the living system? Looking at these animals it seems to be "adapt to survive". So if we assume that humans are part of the living system, perhaps the same applies to us. But then question is, how do we do that? Has nature endowed us with an evolutionary mechanism that would allow us to adapt to survive against our predators?

I often wonder if psychopathy isn't an evolutionary step for humanity? At what point do emotions hinder survival in an over populated environment? When do compassion and empathy become a liability?

The question has been addressed in evolutionary terms: Psychopathy is adaptive so long as psychopaths remain small in proportion to the "host" population. It is like a parasite - so long as it does not overly harm its host, it is able to live and prosper.

But if the parasite grows too big and consumes too much (the ratio of psychopaths increases beyond a sustainable point - as has happened in our world), then society collapses - and/or worse.

And then, as Lobaczewski wrote: "Germs are not aware that they will be burned alive or buried deep in the ground along with the human body whose death they are causing."

And this seems to apply not just to psychopaths, but also at present to our entire, pathological global civilization. Overpopulation is pathological in itself - it is unsustainable, and wouldn't have happened without agriculture, which leads to hierarchical systems where psychopaths can rise to the top, with the almost inevitable end-results we now see.
 
Psalehesost said:
The question has been addressed in evolutionary terms: Psychopathy is adaptive so long as psychopaths remain small in proportion to the "host" population. It is like a parasite - so long as it does not overly harm its host, it is able to live and prosper.

But what if it's more reptilian than parasitic? Crocodiles and alligators are doing pretty well worldwide, and they certainly don't need to cooperate to survive. What if a more reptilian brained human is better suited to what this world has become/ is becoming?
 
Guardian said:
Psalehesost said:
The question has been addressed in evolutionary terms: Psychopathy is adaptive so long as psychopaths remain small in proportion to the "host" population. It is like a parasite - so long as it does not overly harm its host, it is able to live and prosper.

But what if it's more reptilian than parasitic? Crocodiles and alligators are doing pretty well worldwide, and they certainly don't need to cooperate to survive. What if a more reptilian brained human is better suited to what this world has become/ is becoming?

In terms of present culture and society, that may be true. However, there are some basic points to keep in mind:

1. What the world is becoming is a result of psychopathy, so it is perhaps rather a case of psychopaths adapting the world to themselves.

2. The current system is self-destructing at a rapid pace. Given that it is the result of psychopathy, it seems psychopathy does not "work" so well after all. Psychopaths can only prosper in the very, very short term until the roof of the burning house falls down upon their heads.

3. When civilization collapses, the conditions reset themselves, and then the cooperative, non-psychopathic way is once again an evolutionarily superior strategy. So it can be expected that psychopaths then diminish in numbers again. (Until the next big civilization comes along, if it does.)
 
Psalehesost said:
2. The current system is self-destructing at a rapid pace. Given that it is the result of psychopathy, it seems psychopathy does not "work" so well after all. Psychopaths can only prosper in the very, very short term until the roof of the burning house falls down upon their heads.

I might agree, if Rome wasn't still sitting there, just chock full of the world's treasures. Psychopaths have been prospering for over a 1000 years now, while those of us with empathy and compassion consistently get the shaft.

Personally, I think the idea that psychopathy is self defeating is just wishful thinking. They're winning, and they have been winning for a VERY long time. They continue to thrive, while those of us hampered by emotions and empathy are their slaves.

I think they might even be aware of the fact that we're an endangered species, so they're working on cloning, robotics, etc. so they can replace their slaves (us) when the time comes?
 
Personally, I think the idea that psychopathy is self defeating is just wishful thinking. They're winning, and they have been winning for a VERY long time. They continue to thrive, while those of us hampered by emotions and empathy are their slaves.

Modern civilization as they've got it rigged is pretty fragile.

If improvement is going to happen, it may be that it'll happen on the local level in small groups/areas. I don't know if it can happen on the global level at all. And it may never happen in the US outside small groups, ever. We're not going to know that for sure, its something we're all going to have to do and quit worrying about 'whether or not we win'.


I don't think they are winning anything but a swift reincarnation into clay for a cat-box. ;D That whole mess of 'winners' and 'losers' is their game-playing mindset. Don't let it turn you into a worry wart, k?
 
Guardian said:
Psalehesost said:
2. The current system is self-destructing at a rapid pace. Given that it is the result of psychopathy, it seems psychopathy does not "work" so well after all. Psychopaths can only prosper in the very, very short term until the roof of the burning house falls down upon their heads.

I might agree, if Rome wasn't still sitting there, just chock full of the world's treasures. Psychopaths have been prospering for over a 1000 years now, while those of us with empathy and compassion consistently get the shaft.

Personally, I think the idea that psychopathy is self defeating is just wishful thinking. They're winning, and they have been winning for a VERY long time. They continue to thrive, while those of us hampered by emotions and empathy are their slaves.

I think they might even be aware of the fact that we're an endangered species, so they're working on cloning, robotics, etc. so they can replace their slaves (us) when the time comes?

By "in the very, very short term", I meant in relation to the present - not historically. The point is that a point of no return is now being reached for the present civilization.

Pathocracy "works" so long as psychopaths have their resources - us, non-psychopaths. But what happens if there is cometary fragment bombardment (recent data pointing to it not being far off), a new ice age (if not before, then a cometary fragment bombardment is very likely to trigger its onset), a real pandemic, and in general a very drastic reduction in world populaion?

It would happen too quickly for a "replacement" of their workforce to possibly take place. And if people do revolt in the midst of these circumstances, things might not be so pleasant for them, in general.

Sure, you might have some psychos successfully hiding out in their bunkers here and there - but when it comes to humanity in general, I would then expect it to go on without them.

Until, perhaps, the next civilization arises.

But you do have a point: This could be seen as a successful strategy - begin, shape and "ride" a rising civilization, thriving until it meets its doom, survive in small numbers, then repeat the process when the opportunity presents itself.

Psychopaths in relation to humanity remind me of those parasites which hijack insects and make them behave self-destructively, while being consumed by the parasite. This looks like what humanity has been subject to for many millenia - because it hasn't learned from it. Do you think it ever will?
 
It might just be a question of what turns out to become the norm in a given system.

Obviously, a society devoid of psychopaths would do quite well for themselves, yet I can also picture a planet / race made up solely of psychopathic individuals. Each would be a completely different society, for sure. I'm not convinced that psychopaths NEED soul-potential humans in order to survive. In a system lacking in empathy altogether things would definitely be in a far "worse" state than our current one (from an empathetic point of view), but there would still be the more and less exploited "casts" in society. It really comes down to either the image of a triangle or that of a circle. Pyramid or Sphere. Hierarchy / non-hierarchical society.
 
Guardian said:
Psalehesost said:
2. The current system is self-destructing at a rapid pace. Given that it is the result of psychopathy, it seems psychopathy does not "work" so well after all. Psychopaths can only prosper in the very, very short term until the roof of the burning house falls down upon their heads.

I might agree, if Rome wasn't still sitting there, just chock full of the world's treasures. Psychopaths have been prospering for over a 1000 years now, while those of us with empathy and compassion consistently get the shaft.

Personally, I think the idea that psychopathy is self defeating is just wishful thinking. They're winning, and they have been winning for a VERY long time. They continue to thrive, while those of us hampered by emotions and empathy are their slaves.

I think they might even be aware of the fact that we're an endangered species, so they're working on cloning, robotics, etc. so they can replace their slaves (us) when the time comes?
I think as always, context is important and the reality of the situation is that the Earth is basically a 'dark planet' at this point in 'time' - so psychopathology is, for all intents and purposes, adaptive here. In this environment, being psychopathic is a short term advantage - but - it cannot be an evolutionary advantage because, lacking creativity, psychopaths can only devolve, not evolve and as Lobaczewski pointed out in his book, everything around them necessarily devolves as well. Witness current human civilization and state of being as proof of that - that is the result of tens of thousands of years of psychopathic influence. So, it can't really be a long term evolutionary advantage for the Life System (though it can be a representation of a life system trapped in an entropic reality) and it is necessarily self-limiting (thus not an evolutionary advantage to the Life System). This is exactly why the earth benefits from period cleansing - the psychopathic influence is not adaptive to the propagation of the Life System.

You say that psychopaths have been prospering for thousands of years, but that is not evolution - they have just been slowly, slowly devolving conditions on this planet to their short term advantage (short term being tens or even hundreds of thousands of years). It's a self-limiting process as we'll soon see on this planet. In fact, the C's once mentioned the point that souls in 5D are quite interested in current events on the planet in order to determine whether or not the planet can even be used in the 'future' for soul evolution.

So, yes, psychopathology is adaptive (an advantage) in an STS entropic world (which is where we are) but it cannot be, by definition, an evolutionary advantage to the Life System because it will always - always - end in the destruction not only of the species it surfaces in but of those unfortunate beings who find themselves in its sphere of influence (human and non-human). In short, it's their world, not ours and they will destroy it - it's only a matter of 'time' (and our inability to stop them because we're too sound asleep to stir and create something different). fwiw.
 
Psalehesost said:
Psychopaths in relation to humanity remind me of those parasites which hijack insects and make them behave self-destructively, while being consumed by the parasite. This looks like what humanity has been subject to for many millenia - because it hasn't learned from it. Do you think it ever will?

No... and I swear if I have to reincarnate again, I'm coming back as one of Laura's or Anart's dogs ;D
 
Psalehesost said:
Psychopaths in relation to humanity remind me of those parasites which hijack insects and make them behave self-destructively, while being consumed by the parasite. This looks like what humanity has been subject to for many millenia - because it hasn't learned from it. Do you think it ever will?

:scared:

This reminds me of the movie "The Puppet Masters" where manta ray-like alien parasites would just find ways to jump on people's backs and then they would penetrate their brains with some wire-like organ and control them. People would then lose control and turn exactly like psychopaths... alien-controlled bodies who don't seem to have a conscience of their own...

Creepy movie indeed. But it strangely corresponds to a lot of what is said here if you think about it.

Perhaps there is a message in there as well. I'd have to look at it again to see...
 

Trending content

Back
Top Bottom