Violence at Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia

[angelburst29]

angelburst29 - I posted a excerpted version of this article yesterday @ 10:25 pm which you are unaware of as it is still in moderation limbo. I'm currently reading another article (considerably longer) that you may find interesting as well:
_https://www.darkmoon.me/2017/the-neocons-are-pushing-the-usa-and-the-rest-of-the-world-towards-a-dangerous-crisis/#more-77061

My apologies, JEEP. I didn't realize I double posted the article.

Articles by Darkmoon can be interesting, at times but I tend to see them - as highly speculative - with a lot of rambling "what-if's".

 

[bjorb]

Good collection of videos I think about the MSM using race baiting to provoke more violence.

MSNBC’s Race Baiting Goes Beyond Full Libtard (4:13 min)

http://<iframe width="1280" height=...0A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Or like this article said:

Domestic destabilization is underway: 'The left is fueling and funding tensions in order to exacerbate them and cause a revolution'
https://www.sott.net/article/359627-Domestic-destabilization-is-underway-The-left-is-fueling-and-funding-tensions-in-order-to-exacerbate-them-and-cause-a-revolution

[...The root of it is this: the attempt to destabilize the country and cause anarchy. Black Americans are being used as the vehicle for the destabilization...a vehicle by the oligarchs, such as Soros.[...]

 

[bjorb]

CNN apparently still exists

Plenty of new lows in this video collection alone: (For a big sum related to this topic)

What Happened to CNN? (4:39 min)

http://<iframe width="1280" height=...Z4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[PhoenixToEmber]

So I made a post on FB about the radical left, commenting on a video from the Boston protests, and a friend of mine (who studied political science - B.A. and Masters) commented with this and I'm not sure how to respond to him:

“The road to hell is paved with good intentions”. Can we get a more pseudo-intellectual and over-generalized platitude? “Here’s a lesson kids, Don’t try because...reasons”. He's being a troll. There are answers to all of his questions on the internet, in books, on videos, and lectures he can attend. There are college courses he can take. But no, he’s going to pick a fight with a group of random people. He creeps out of the right-wing vlogosphere to heckle a bunch of teenagers. Why is he not interviewing the leaders of the movement? Where are the scholars? There were 20,000+ people in Boston. Any gathering of that many will bring out the loons.

What the woman was trying to explain to him was the fact that she stands against the normalization of white supremacy. Ultimately that is what this is all about.

This isn't a free speech issue. Free speech is a misdirection. The issue for people of color, minorities and progressives is not “free speech”. The issue is about hate speech which is overly violent. Waving a nazi flag means calling for the genocide of billions of people. By taking a stand for “free speech” the racial, sexual and economic reality of the United States is not addressed. He’s just another white dude waving his finger. Get in line. We’ve already got Jordan Peterson, Sam Harris, Bill Maher, Richard Dawkins and everyone over at FOX news thinking they know what’s best for everyone. We do not have freedom of speech in this country. Shocker. Some things we cannot say. Fighting words, slander, libel, yelling “fire” in a crowded room are all illegal in the United States. Germany and Austria both have anti Nazi laws. Canada and France have hate speech legislation. None of these countries are seen as authoritarian or as any less free.

The far right has websites, private organizations, they can meet, they could wear the clothing they want, they can think whatever they want, they can decorate their homes however they want. The issues now is should hate speech, which is inherently violent be given a platform, and should precious resources particularly within higher education which is facing an assault by both liberals and conservatives, be spent on giving racists a platform? I say no. What is anyone in the KKK or the Alt-Right going to say that we haven’t heard before? It's not a science it's not even a coherent philosophy.

Instead the Liberals and so-called progressives that want to play tone police end up being a wrench in the fight against hate. Instead of focusing on the right we now have this whole new contingent that we are struggling against. This is on top of dealing with the Democratic Party establishment. This is how the right wins. This is how the Mango Mussolini became president.

The most frustrating part is that I wrote almost all of this before I even watched the video because I knew exactly what it was going to be.

Also, when someone says ‘alt-left” what they’re really saying is they don’t understand what's going on. It’s a right wing myth. There is no alt-left. There is no alt-right. We have the same old far right composed of neo-nazis and KKK members. Same old racism, same old bullshit, new flashy name.

https://www.facebook.com/esotericphoenix/posts/10155575192745270?comment_id=10155580121465270&notif_t=feed_comment&notif_id=1503509144203809

I see the point he's making, but I also feel he's missing the deeper implications of what's going on, of the polarization being provoked within the country by the PTB. For some context, this guy identifies as a Democratic Socialist and we've had many conversations about politics over the years.

He also shared this interview with a scholar about Antifa from Democracy Now: https://www.facebook.com/esotericphoenix/posts/10155575192745270?
https://www.democracynow.org/2017/8/16/antifa_a_look_at_the_antifascistcomment_id=10155580214730270&notif_t=feed_comment&notif_id=1503511443977390

Thoughts?

 

[Glenn]

So I made a post on FB about the radical left, commenting on a video from the Boston protests, and a friend of mine (who studied political science - B.A. and Masters) commented with this and I'm not sure how to respond to him:

“The road to hell is paved with good intentions”. Can we get a more pseudo-intellectual and over-generalized platitude? “Here’s a lesson kids, Don’t try because...reasons”. He's being a troll. There are answers to all of his questions on the internet, in books, on videos, and lectures he can attend. There are college courses he can take. But no, he’s going to pick a fight with a group of random people. He creeps out of the right-wing vlogosphere to heckle a bunch of teenagers. Why is he not interviewing the leaders of the movement? Where are the scholars? There were 20,000+ people in Boston. Any gathering of that many will bring out the loons.

What the woman was trying to explain to him was the fact that she stands against the normalization of white supremacy. Ultimately that is what this is all about.

This isn't a free speech issue. Free speech is a misdirection. The issue for people of color, minorities and progressives is not “free speech”. The issue is about hate speech which is overly violent. Waving a nazi flag means calling for the genocide of billions of people. By taking a stand for “free speech” the racial, sexual and economic reality of the United States is not addressed. He’s just another white dude waving his finger. Get in line. We’ve already got Jordan Peterson, Sam Harris, Bill Maher, Richard Dawkins and everyone over at FOX news thinking they know what’s best for everyone. We do not have freedom of speech in this country. Shocker. Some things we cannot say. Fighting words, slander, libel, yelling “fire” in a crowded room are all illegal in the United States. Germany and Austria both have anti Nazi laws. Canada and France have hate speech legislation. None of these countries are seen as authoritarian or as any less free.

The far right has websites, private organizations, they can meet, they could wear the clothing they want, they can think whatever they want, they can decorate their homes however they want. The issues now is should hate speech, which is inherently violent be given a platform, and should precious resources particularly within higher education which is facing an assault by both liberals and conservatives, be spent on giving racists a platform? I say no. What is anyone in the KKK or the Alt-Right going to say that we haven’t heard before? It's not a science it's not even a coherent philosophy.

Instead the Liberals and so-called progressives that want to play tone police end up being a wrench in the fight against hate. Instead of focusing on the right we now have this whole new contingent that we are struggling against. This is on top of dealing with the Democratic Party establishment. This is how the right wins. This is how the Mango Mussolini became president.

The most frustrating part is that I wrote almost all of this before I even watched the video because I knew exactly what it was going to be.

Also, when someone says ‘alt-left” what they’re really saying is they don’t understand what's going on. It’s a right wing myth. There is no alt-left. There is no alt-right. We have the same old far right composed of neo-nazis and KKK members. Same old racism, same old bullshit, new flashy name.

https://www.facebook.com/esotericphoenix/posts/10155575192745270?comment_id=10155580121465270&notif_t=feed_comment&notif_id=1503509144203809

I see the point he's making, but I also feel he's missing the deeper implications of what's going on, of the polarization being provoked within the country by the PTB. For some context, this guy identifies as a Democratic Socialist and we've had many conversations about politics over the years.

He also shared this interview with a scholar about Antifa from Democracy Now: https://www.facebook.com/esotericphoenix/posts/10155575192745270?
https://www.democracynow.org/2017/8/16/antifa_a_look_at_the_antifascistcomment_id=10155580214730270&notif_t=feed_comment&notif_id=1503511443977390

Thoughts?

I don't have Facebook so I can't see the original ideas that were being confronted.

But as I see things happening now, things have been constructed, to more or less create division around hot button issues. Around Nazism, white supremacy, racism etc that really only exists on the extreme fringe. (And maybe a lot of those are cointel constructs as well). But it is being reported as this huge resurgence happening right now, and with Trump, coincidentally as the leader.

So in essence, a straw man has been created, and people are being forced to argue either for or against it.

Part of the narrative is that these things are on the rise, and are becoming a threat to society. So then drastic measures must be taken to counteract them.

(It is a pretty common theme, and is basically how all wars are started. Create a threat, and then offer your own solution. A solution that has many layers of agenda.)

Being drawn into a straw man argument is dicey, as then you are accepting a lot of the assumptions and lies that the man of straw was constructed of.

Also, when someone says ‘alt-left” what they’re really saying is they don’t understand what's going on. It’s a right wing myth. There is no alt-left. There is no alt-right. We have the same old far right composed of neo-nazis and KKK members. Same old racism, same old bullshit, new flashy name.

Pretty good example of postmodern group think.

The agenda right now is quite clear that conservative thinkers must all be grouped into the Neo Nazi, KKK crowd.

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= PhoenixPhilalethes]Thoughts?[/quote]

I don't really get what he is mainly trying to convey. It seems he missing a lot of knowledge. I guess I would share this article: https://www.sott.net/article/359594-Charlottesville-Dont-Take-the-Bait

Then maybe he would stop seeing nazi's (white supremacist) everywhere. (If this is the case, because I don't entirely get his point) And see the Left for what it really is. Perhaps the following video is also helpfull in this regard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S2TZOdXAtQ


People who see nazi's everywhere, are simply race baiting. They are a danger to themselves and others.

I would try to keep it short and to the point whatever you want to say in response. Because he seems out for a ''intellectual fight'' with you. Or not, I can't really tell. But most of the time this is the case with people, many folks don't want to listen, they only want to reply. OSIT.

 

[PhoenixToEmber]

[quote author= PhoenixPhilalethes]Thoughts?

I don't really get what he is mainly trying to convey. It seems he missing a lot of knowledge. I guess I would share this article: https://www.sott.net/article/359594-Charlottesville-Dont-Take-the-Bait

Then maybe he would stop seeing nazi's (white supremacist) everywhere. (If this is the case, because I don't entirely get his point) And see the Left for what it really is. Perhaps the following video is also helpfull in this regard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S2TZOdXAtQ


People who see nazi's everywhere, are simply race baiting. They are a danger to themselves and others.

I would try to keep it short and to the point whatever you want to say in response. Because he seems out for a ''intellectual fight'' with you. Or not, I can't really tell. But most of the time this is the case with people, many folks don't want to listen, they only want to reply. OSIT.
[/quote]

Yeah, now I got him and a trans person both coming at me. I also don't think they're going to respond well to that article and video either.

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= PhoenixPhilalethes]Thoughts?

I don't really get what he is mainly trying to convey. It seems he missing a lot of knowledge. I guess I would share this article: https://www.sott.net/article/359594-Charlottesville-Dont-Take-the-Bait

Then maybe he would stop seeing nazi's (white supremacist) everywhere. (If this is the case, because I don't entirely get his point) And see the Left for what it really is. Perhaps the following video is also helpfull in this regard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S2TZOdXAtQ


People who see nazi's everywhere, are simply race baiting. They are a danger to themselves and others.

I would try to keep it short and to the point whatever you want to say in response. Because he seems out for a ''intellectual fight'' with you. Or not, I can't really tell. But most of the time this is the case with people, many folks don't want to listen, they only want to reply. OSIT.

Yeah, now I got him and a trans person both coming at me. I also don't think they're going to respond well to that article and video either.
[/quote]

I don't think either to be honest.

Thinking about it, I would say something along the line.

Thanks for your reply.... (name)

I want to add. I think that if we turn the TV and media of for a while. And instead talk and listen to each other about what is going on... Friends, neighbours, people from work, community members etc. We discover that we are not divided, but way more united then we think we are. And how the media is making it look like.

Whatever the media says, 200 white supremacists do not represent our country.

But if you say this they will propably call you ''denialst'' about the supposed KKK rampage that is taking control over the country. (Or something close to it) I have been in to many discussions with people, I don't even try anymore. Simply because there is no point most of the time. Maybe that's the best way to go at it in this situation? But I don't know them personally.

 

[SocietyoftheSpectacle]

[quote author= PhoenixPhilalethes]Thoughts?

I don't really get what he is mainly trying to convey. It seems he missing a lot of knowledge. I guess I would share this article: https://www.sott.net/article/359594-Charlottesville-Dont-Take-the-Bait

Then maybe he would stop seeing nazi's (white supremacist) everywhere. (If this is the case, because I don't entirely get his point) And see the Left for what it really is. Perhaps the following video is also helpfull in this regard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S2TZOdXAtQ


People who see nazi's everywhere, are simply race baiting. They are a danger to themselves and others.

I would try to keep it short and to the point whatever you want to say in response. Because he seems out for a ''intellectual fight'' with you. Or not, I can't really tell. But most of the time this is the case with people, many folks don't want to listen, they only want to reply. OSIT.

Yeah, now I got him and a trans person both coming at me. I also don't think they're going to respond well to that article and video either.
[/quote]

Seems to me the guys problem lies with the script he has learnt.

he is panicking because his ideas consist of narratives that no longer make sense and are contradicting each other.

It shows the gulf that lies between thinking and repeating well thought out narratives,
thought up by someone else.

 

[Cosmos]

[...] and the German Spiegel:

It strikes me again how totally dangerous and insane the german mainstream media is bashing Trump. Besides the Spiegel cover it actually says "The True Face of Donald Trump" ! Not even the US Media is going that far in bashing Trump. Proves once again that the establishment really has a vested interest of demonizing all and everything that might even possibly do or say something good in relation to russia. Observing this and similar bashings of papers like "Der Spiegel" in germany, ever since Putin got on stage, really proves what this slimy Stratfor chief said in regards to the goal of the empire in regards to germany and russia:

The primordial interest of the United States for centuries (WWI, WWII and the Cold War) has been to stop a coalition between Germany and Russia.

It further proofs that the worst propaganda is really taking place in the german mainstream newspapers and pretty much any other media show in germany, as the following study found out:

Germany is on the first place in the worldwide ranking of mass-media hostility towards russia:
_http://www.russia-direct.org/analysis/russia-now-monitoring-world’s-mass-media-bias

And I thought it couldn't get worse in the german mainstream newspapers. I was wrong. Now Der Stern (another of the big leading newspapers in germany) published this as cover:

With the headline: "His Kampf: Neonazis, Ku-Klux-Klan, Racism: How Donald Trump Foments Hatred in America"

Unbelievable

 

[angelburst29]

Workers in the US city of Charlottesville, Virginia covered two Confederate statues in black fabric after protests over the monuments turned violent earlier this month, media reports said on Wednesday.

US City of Charlottesville Shrouds Confederate Statues After Violence
https://sputniknews.com/us/201708231056732212-us-charlottesville-violence/

The Charlottesville City Council voted unanimously on Monday to cover the statues of Lee and Confederate general Stonewall Jackson to signal the city's mourning for Heather Heyer, a 32-year-old woman who was killed when a car slammed into a crowd protesting a white nationalist rally.

The city will also begin the process of memorializing Heyer by renaming a street after the slain activist, among other measures, officials said at Monday's city council meeting, which was broadcast online.

Christopher Cantwell, who gained notoriety for taking part in Charlottesville nationalist rallies, has turned himself into Lynchburg Police Department in the US state of Virginia soon after he was put on the wanted list, US media reported Thursday, citing police.

White Nationalist Wanted Over Charlottesville Violence Surrenders to Police
https://sputniknews.com/us/201708241056753435-charlottesville-violence-police/

The University of Virginia Police Department urged Christopher Cantwell to immediately surrender to authorities on Tuesday, when the white supremacist was officially charged with two counts of illegal use of tear gas and inflicting a bodily injury.

The police said that the suspect was being held in custody, waiting to be transferred to Charlottesville, according to the NBC29 broadcaster.

Cantwell reportedly used pepper spray against a counterprotester during a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville on August 11-12. Far-right activists gathered to protest against demolition of a statue of Confederate icon general Robert E. Lee. At the peak of clashes, a car rammed into a crowd of counterprotesters, leaving a woman dead and nearly 20 others injured.

San Francisco police will be out in force Saturday for a rally that is expected to draw white supremacists and counter-protesters who have clashed violently in the past.

Police vow to ‘stamp out’ violence at San Francisco rally expected to draw white supremacists
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-sf-white-protest-20170823-story.html

San Francisco Police Chief Bill Scott said he hopes a large police presence can prevent the kind of violence seen in Virginia and elsewhere.

While San Francisco officials cannot stop the permitted gathering at the Golden Gate National Recreation Area by the Patriot Prayer group, Scott said his officers would work to keep the peace.

“You want to keep the people as peaceful as possible and don’t allow violence to occur,” the chief said. “Violence isn’t going to be tolerated.”

Clashes between right-wing and left-wing protesters sparked violence and arrests earlier this year in Berkeley. Saturday’s San Francisco rally will be followed by another one Sunday in Berkeley.

Keeping the two sides apart with officers separating the rally and counter-protesters will go a long way toward ensuring everyone’s safety, the chief said.

Scott said big cities like Los Angeles, where he served as a deputy chief, have long responded to these types of protests by having officers keep opposing sides apart. The tactics, in the end, aren’t complicated.

 

[Laura]

Well, all I can say is that the Cs warned us it was coming and that it would last for awhile, but if we are smart, we can come out the other side.

 

[Hesper]

Thoughts?

Not sure if you want to debate these individuals. I probably wouldn't, especially considering the climate. But my 2 cents? First off he writes that the core of the problem is the 'normalization of white supremacy'. Right there you can see that he's accepted the lie that 'all Trump supporters are white supremacists'. There has been no 'normalization of white supremacy' - that's just what CNN wants everyone to believe.

Secondly, as far as the whole 'free speech' debacle, that's already been debated and precedent set. From Wikipedia:

Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969), was a landmark United States Supreme Court case based on the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The Court held that government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless that speech is "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action."702 Specifically, it struck down Ohio's criminal syndicalism statute, because that statute broadly prohibited the mere advocacy of violence. In the process, Whitney v. California (1927) was explicitly overruled, and doubt was cast on Schenck v. United States (1919), Abrams v. United States (1919), Gitlow v. New York (1925), and Dennis v. United States (1951).

So, in a normal world, this 'free speech' issue has been and would be something for the courts to decide, not lawless 'Nazi hunters' who want to burn down the White House, or the same MSM that lauds head-choppers in Syria.

And lastly but perhaps most importantly, this person should definitely be cringing at the lunatics in that video and not just jumping to their defense - that's probably what triggered such a long post from him, seeing his 'heroes' stripped bare for everyone to see them for what they are. He's clearly already succumbed to one of the first steps in ponerization - giving pathological people's views of reality the same weight as a normal person's:

First Criterion of Ponerogenesis: “One phenomenon all ponerogenic groups and associations have in common is the fact that their members lose (or have already lost) the capacity to perceive pathological individuals as such, interpreting their behavior in fascinated, heroic, or melodramatic ways” (Lobaczewski, 158). When a group has succumbed to pathological influence its members soon lose the ability to distinguish normal human behavior from pathological. This atrophy of critical faculties in relation to such individuals becomes an opening to their activities. It can also be used to identify potentially dangerous groups.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Rhythmik]

PhoenixPhilalethes: If I debate with those types of people I usually ask them questions and their answers (or refusal to answer) eventually exposes their weak logic. All of a sudden the Left feel justified with their cries of "Nazi" because a white supremacist killed a girl in Charlottesville. I will ask them if they agreed with Antifa violently rioting in order to shut down Ann Coulter's speech at Berkeley. I ask if they put Coulter in the Nazi box since they currently are so liberal with throwing that phrase at everyone. Either they decide that Coulter is a Nazi which makes them look ridiculous, or they denounce left-wing political terrorism and violence (which they won't do).

It's also amusing that the people that are currently "Nazis" were "Russian spies" a few months ago.

 

[SocietyoftheSpectacle]

You have some excellent proof here that Antifa are capable of extreme violence.
Warning some disturbing pictures of a head wound.

http://imgur.com/gallery/a19tQ