Was Julius Caesar the real Jesus Christ?

[Mike]

I'll contact the publisher to get an idea of stock levels and report back.

The publisher (Uitgeverij Aspekt; _http://www.uitgeverijaspekt.nl/) has plenty of stock of the English version of Carotta's book (and so does Centraal Boekhuis)
As far as online purchases I was pointed to two Dutch online stores that should have ample stock:
_http://www.bol.com/nl/p/jesus-was-ceasar/1001004001847813/
_http://www.bruna.nl/engelstalige-boeken/jesus-was-ceasar-9789059113961

Let me get back in touch with them to determine if shipping cost is reduced if I order several copies.

For everyone that hasn't been able to track this book down, Amazon.com now has a number of copies both used and new listed for under $65.

 

[davros of skaro]

Do not forget about sacred blood; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dies_sanguinis

Here is Joseph Atwill "Caesar's Messiah The Roman conspiracy to invent Jesus"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aSKN0xnfsA

I did not fact check his "Flavian Signature" hypothesis,but it's interesting.

Strip away the myth making,forgeries etc,and Jesus is just a celestial bright light,hence the Comet of 44 BCE.

As for the poster talking about Isis.Cleopatra claimed to be the reincarnation of Isis,and had a child with Caesar.

 

[Dirgni]

Session 7 September 2013
Q: (Belibaste)I just want to know if Julius Caesar was a human being?

A: Yes.

Q: (Belibaste)Besides his known children, did he have other children?

A: Yes. Not Caesarion.

Q: (Belibaste)So are there some descendants of Caesar living on this planet?

A: Yes

Q: (Belibaste)How many?

A: Already asked.

Q: (Belibaste)But it was asked about Jesus.

A: Yes...

Session 5 October 1994
Q: (L) Are there any descendants of Jesus living today?

A: 364,142.

Session 30 May 1998
Q: You said he had children by three Roman women and he also had a wife?

A: Close enough.

Interesting to know that Julius Caesar was the historic person behind Jesus. This may also explain why there are stories about Jesus' descendents that are connected to southern France. Caesar used to be there for some time. Maybe he left a child and this is remembered? Maybe one/some of his descendents eventually moved to Britain and caused the Joseph of Arimathea stories? These 364,142 living descendants today could be a very interesting bloodline or at least some of them (certain souls choose a certain type of body...). When JC had children only by Roman women this would also explain the "Not Caesarion." answer as Cleopatra was Egypt or rather Greek but not Roman.

JC being Roman would also explain that Latin is still Roman Catholic Church language. Latin was also used as only language in mass until the second Vatican Council in the sixties of last century. Latin also used to be the language of science and the refined persons until lately. Latin is still one of the foreign languages taught in Europe to school children today. When the events behind RC Church holy days are JC victories, this also may explain the tendency of Christianity for war and killings of the (non-) Christians. The deification of Caesar reminds me of making of saints in the Roman Catholic Church. It is somewhat similar. In Roman Catholic churches there are eternal flames, which make together with the altar something like hearth fires. There is still something like sacrifice in the churches: bread and wine and also lighted candles. Christianity is much more similar to the ancient Roman world as the Jewish world IMO.

 

[Laura]

You mentioned the eternal flames and that reminded me of some remarks included below. While searching the transcripts I realized that a whole series of clue sets really need to be looked at from a different perspective at this point. So here's what I pulled out:

Q: (L) Yes, and you know it's there. OK, let me jump over to
this other subject of the number 33 and the number 11. Is
there anything beyond what was given on 11-11-95, that you
could add at this time, about any of the mathematics or the
use of these numbers?
A: Prime numbers are the dwellings of the mystics.
Q: (L) What do you mean, "prime numbers are the dwellings of
the mystics?"
A: Self-explanatory, if you use the tools given you.
Q: (L) How can a number be a dwelling?
A: Figure of speech. [Planchette spirals several times,
vigorously] And how interesting that we have a new "cell"
phone company called: "Primeco."
Q: (L) And how does a cell phone company called "Primeco"
relate to prime numbers being dwellings of mystics?
A: Not for us to answer.

[Word association by group: encryption, cells of monks,
prisons, prime number divisible by one or self]

Q: (L) Is encryption the key?
A: Oh, there is so much here. One example is: "Snake eyes"
is not so good as 7,11, eh?
Q: (T) They are all prime numbers, too; seven and eleven.
(L) What kinds of documents or writings... or what would be
applicable...
A: No, Laura you are trying to focus, or limit the concept,
my dear. Think of it, what is the Judaic Christian legend
for the creation of a woman?
Q: (L) That woman was taken from the rib of Adam. That Eve
was created from the rib of Adam.
A: Ever heard of a "prime rib?"
Q: [Groans] (T) I hate being in kindergarten and not knowing
what the subject is. Ok, prime rib. We have a prime rib,
so...
A: What happens in a "Primary."
Q: (L) An election. You narrow down the candidates. What
happens in a primary?
A: Who gets "picked" to run?
Q: (L) Ok, keep on...
A: "Prime Directive?"
Q: (L) OK.
A: "Prime time?"
Q: (L) The first, the best... and...
A: Not point
Q: (L) I know that's not the point! Is what we're saying
here, is that we can use these prime numbers to derive
something out of something else?
A: We told you about the mystics.
Q: (T) They're using prime numbers to... (L) Oh, ok, I get
it. So, mystics... the mystics, the mystical secrets...
dwell in the prime numbers if used as a code.
A: Name the primary mystical organizations for key to clue
system.
Q: (L) ...key to clue system?
A: Yes.

Q: Can you help me out here? I would like to know about this
Moshe thing. You not only brought up the name, but you
brought up a lot of other things. And it seems that this
was the opening of a door of moving me in a certain
direction. I don't even know how to ask about this
because it is so strange...
A: Then it should be shelved.
Q: Is this one of those things you are going to avoid?
A: Alfalfa fields in Rhineland yield as of yet undreamed of
treasures.
Q: Where are these alfalfa fields?
A: Near tracks well worn.
Q: Another clue, please?
A: Nope, that is enough for now!!
Q: You guys are gonna drive me crazy! Do you mean Rhineland
as in Germany proper?
A: We do not mean Rhinelander, Wisconsin... Or do we?!? Who
is to tell?
Q: Who?
A: The searcher, the sepulcher, the one who carries the staff
in constant search for greener pastures.
Q: Oh my! You are being VERY obscure tonight! Just the fun
things I like, too! Now, I think I will be pretty busy
this week on this, but is there anything that can be
expanded, or any additional clues for me or Ark?
A: Last clue for tongight: Look for the vibratory frequency
light. Good Night.

Q: Well, that is out of my depth tonight! In a previous
session I asked a question about the 'sons of Belial' and
the 'sons of the law of One,' as explicated by Edgar
Cayce, and whether these were philosophical or racial
divisions. You said that they were initially racial, and
then philosophical and religious. Now, from putting the
information about religions together throughout the
centuries, I am coming to a rather difficult realization
that the whole monotheistic idea, which is obviously the
basic concept of the 'sons of the law of One,' is the most
clever and devious and cunning means of control I have
ever encountered in my life. No matter where it comes
from, the religionists say "we have the ONE god, WE are
his agents, you pay us your money, and we'll tell him to
be nice to you in the next world!"
A: Clever if one is deceived. Silly truffle if one is not.
Q: Well, I know! But, uncovering this decption, this lie
that the 'power' is 'out there' is unbelievable. So, the
Kantekkians were the 'Sons of Belial,' which is not the
negative thing that I interpreted it as at the time. So,
the 'Sons of the Law of One,' was perverted to the
monotheistic Judaism, which then was then transformed into
the Christian religious mythos, and has been an ongoing
theme since Atlantean times.
A: Woven of those who portray the lights.
Q: And that is always the way it has been. They appear as
'angels of light.' And, essentially, everything in
history has been rewritten by this group.
A: Under the influence of others. And whom do you suppose?
Q: Well, the Orion STS.
A: Sending pillars of light and chariots of fire to deliver
the message.
Q: Well, I found some connections between some tombs in Rome,
Nicolas Poussin, and some tombs in England, the
processions of 'angels' on the Canary Islands. The
connection seems to be these funny lights, or Candles,
with 'peculiar wicks,' as they are described, which are
'eternal flames.' I am wondering if this is what you
meant by connecting them by the frequency of light?
A: "Eternal flame" adorns the tomb of JFK. Connection?
Q: Yes. I also found the Solloi priesthood and the
priestesses called Peleiades. They seem to be involved
with urns, birds, tinkling bells, urns that can be struck
and which then set up a particular resonance in other
urns, oak trees, and some other peculiar references that
relate to laurel trees...
A: Siren song.
Q: What about the siren song?
A: Greek mythology.
Q: I know that. What about it? What do the sirens
represent?
A: Laura, my dear, if you really want to reveal "many
beautiful and amazing things," all you need to do is
remember the triad, the trilogy, the trinity, and look
always for the triplicative connecting clue profile.
Connect the threes... do not rest until you have found
three beautifully balancing meanings!!
Q: So, in everything there are three aspects?
A: And why? Because it is the realm of the three that you
occupy. In order to possess the keys to the next level,
just master the Third Man Theme, then move on with grace
and anticipation.

Q: Okay. I have several books on the subject. I will start tomorrow. Now, when the Templars were arrested, they were accused of worshipping a head, or skull, and also the god Baphomet. Were thes spurious accusations designed to defame them?
A: Skull was of pure crystal.
Q: What is the definition of the god 'Baphomet,' if they did, indeed, worship such?
A: The holder of the Trent.
Q: What is THAT?
A: Seek.
Q: What is the meaning of 'The Widow's Son?' The implication?
A: Stalks path of wisdom incarnate.
Q: Why is this described as a Widow's son? This was the appelation of Perceval...
A: Perceval was knighted in the court of seven.
Q: The court of seven what?
A: Swords points signify crystal transmitter of truth beholden.
Q: What is the relationship between Perceval, Paran Sikarios, the Assassini, and Ishmael, the son of Hagar, at the well of the mirror?
A: Spear of Destiny.
Q: Are the Ishmaelis the carriers of the true bloodline, and the line of Isaac and Jacob, the Supplanter, the carriers of the monothiestic covenant, are the false line?
A: Close.
Q: Are the Ishmaelis also the carriers of the knowledge of levitation, the cult of the head or the skull...
A: Try to connect to the Templars.
Q: Did the Templars discover the secrets of the Ishmaelis, the Assassini, and is this what they carried into Europe, and then underground?
A: Buried in Galle.
...
Q: You previously talked about 'undreamed of treasure in
alfalfa fields of Rhineland.' Is this a physical,
spiritual or knowledge based treasure?
A: It is all three.
Q: Who put this treasure in the alfalfa fields of Rhineland?
A: Discover. And so, to you, good night.

Q: I have a few questions on the subject of Cassiopaea. On
several occasions you have described Cassiopaea or the
Cassiopaeans, the unified thought form light beings that
transmit through Cassiopaea, as being the 'front line of
the universe's system of natural balance.' On another
occasion when Roxanne was here, she was asking questions
about Isis and you said that Isis was a 'vanguard.' Now,
it seems to me that something that is at the front line is
also a vanguard - that the definitions are
interchangeable, or similar. In reading through all the
various myths and legends, it occurs to me that the
similarity between the imagery of Queen Cassiopaea and
Isis is quite striking. What is the relationship between
Queen Cassiopaea, archetypally speaking, and Isis?
A: Subliminal.
Q: It is subliminal? The other thing I noticed about the
word 'Isis' is that it can be slightly altered to make 'I
Zeus.' And, Perseus can be 'per Zeus' and Persia can be
made to say 'per ziu.' One of the oldest etymological
roots for the word 'God' is 'ziu' from which we get 'deu.'
These all represent the English traslation of 'for God,'
with Perceval being 'per ziu val' or 'strong for God.'
Could you comment on these relationships?
A: Interconnected by trilingual learning curve.
Q: Any further comments?
A: No.
Q: I also noticed that the word 'Osiris' could also be
slightly modified to say 'of Sirius.' Comment, please.
A: Sirius was regarded highly in your "past."
Q: What was the foundation of this regard for Sirius?
A: "From whence cometh, is seen that which knows no
limitation."
Q: Could you elaborate on that?
A: Could, but will not.
Q: Why?
A: Because you can!
Q: In reading the transcripts, I came across a reference to a
'pact' made by a group of STS individuals, and it was
called 'Rosteem,' and that this was the origin of the
Rosicrucians. In the book 'The Orion Mystery,' it talks
about the fact that Giza was formerlay known as RosTau,
which is 'Rose Cross.' Essentially, I would like to
understand the symbology of the Rose affixed to the Cross.
It seems to me that the imagery of Jesus nailed to the
Cross is actually the Rose affixed to the Cross. How does
Jesus relate to the Rose?
A: No, it is from the Rose arose the Cross.
Q: Oh.... I see...
A: Said the blind man.
Q: Elaborate, please. Are you saying that what I am seeing
is not correct?
A: No, mirth!
Q: It is from the Rose that the Cross arose... and,
therefore, the cross symbolizes...
A: Ask.
Q: What does the cross symbolize?
A: The symbology is not the issue. It is the effect.
Q: What is the effect of the cross?
A: All that has followed it.
Q: Could you list some of these to give me a clue?
A: You know these.
Q: In the same vein, I have noticed that there are two
classes of arachnids. There are scorpions and there are
spiders. The zodiac was changed by taking the pincers
away from the Scorpion and creating out of them the sign
of Libra. This image was one of a woman holding a balance
scales, usually blindfolded. This was done within
recorded history, but was probably formalized through the
occult traditions of Kaballa. Now, in trying to figure
out who has on what color hat, if there is such a thing, I
have come to a tentative conclusion that the spider, or
spinner of webs, is the Rosicrucian encampment, and that
the Scorpion represents the seeker of wisdom... because,
in fact, the word for Scorpio comes from the same root as
that which means to pierce or unveil. Therefore, the
Scorpion is also Perseus, per Ziu, or 'for God.' And the
Rosicrucians are the 'other,' so to speak. Can you
elaborate on this for me? Or comment?
A: What a tangled web we spin, when we must not let you in.
Q: So, the Rose is the Spider?
A: Different objective.
Q: So, the Rose, with its thorns... can you help me with this
Rose image... is the Rose the Scorpion?
A: No. Different objective... Rose is a stand alone symbol.
Q: So, the Rose can be used by either side, is that it?
A: Maybe.
Q: Another derivation of the word root of Scorpio is
'skopos,' or 'to see.' You said that the human race was
seeded on a planet in the constellation Scorpio, and,
therefore, when the zodiac was set up and the clues were
laid out, it seems to me that the insertion of the sign of
Libra was designed to take power away from human beings,
to take their hands away, to prevent them from seeing, to
make them defenseless. Is this imagery close?
A: On track.
Q: And the Scorpion is represented in four ways: the
scorpion, the lizard, the eagle and the dove. So, there
are four levels of experience. Also, Minerva/Athena was
the daughter of Zeus alone. She was known as the 'tamer
of horses,' and was a Virgin Goddess. She was also known
as 'Parthenos' meaning separation. Is this part of the
imagery of the creation of Eve from the rib of Adam, so to
speak, or the separation of knowledge from soul, or the
veil between the world of 3rd density and 4th density?
A: Close.
Q: Along this same line, in the astrological symbology, the
different stars are designated as being located on
different parts of the body in a rather arbitrary way that
does not seem to necessarily have a lot to do with the
actual configuration of the stars themselves. King
Cepheus in the sign of Aries, the consort of Cassiopaea,
has a star in the right shoulder. The name of this star
in Arabic means 'redeemer. In the imagery of the
crucifixion, Jesus is depicted as carrying the cross on
his shoulder as if to say that he is the old king who must
die to make way for the new one... Additionally, many of
us have been experiencing the pain in the shoulder, arm,
and shoulder-blade for some time. You have, on occasion,
related this to DNA changes. Is it that certain
individuals are connected to other densities through the
windows of the stars in certain constellations, and the
clues are found in the location of the stars in the
figures of the constellations relating to the areas of the
body where pockets in the etheric field are points of
activation of DNA, and that these relate to certain pains
and discomforts?
A: Okay.
Q: Is that okay as in I am onto something?
A: Maybe...
Q: Can you help me out a little here?
A: Too do so would compromise your discoveries.
Q: Are the body pains in these areas related?
A: To...?
Q: Obviously this is a big one... it relates directly to the
crossed shin bones, the skull, the shoulderblades, knees,
elbows and a lot of other symbology... the exposed breast
of the Masonic initiate. In the Bible where it says that
Jesus was scourged, it is actually a word that usually
means the pressing and squeezing that cause milk to
express from the breast. ...
Q: Is the Rose symbolic of Prime Creator and the Cross the
conflict between STS and STO?
A: No.
Q: Anything you CAN tell me?
A: You are so inquisitive, you will uncover all you seek,
even without us telling you directly.

Q: Okay, I get the connection. In the studies of the Triple
Goddess, I came across some interesting things. You
suggested that I should research the Third Man Theme. I
have discovered that the origin of the word 'man' meant a
female - the goddess. The oldest word for the male of the
species was 'wer' as in 'werewolf.' So, the Third Man
Theme could mean actually, the Triple Goddess. Am I
correct?
A: Close, if viewed through "sheets of rain."
Q: Okay. Tracking the Triple Goddess back to the oldest
references, we get to KaliMa. There are all kinds of
derivations of this name, but the thing that strikes me is
the relationship to the goddess Kell, or Kella, as well as
to the word kell, Celts, and how this might be transformed
into the word 'Cassiopaea.' Can you comment on this?
A: Do not the Celts like "kelly" green?!?
Q: Yes. So. What does 'green' have to do with it?
A: Keep searching... learning is accomplished thusly, and
learning is fun!
Q: Yes. I know. Okay, if that is related to Celts, then it
must also relate to the Goddess 'Car' which would make the
'philosophers of Dancar' the philosophers of the Goddess
Car, the equine term for 'mother' being 'dam' which could
easily be coverted to 'Dan,' not to mention the relation
to the Goddess Danae...
A: Need now to turn you research to Malta.
Q: Oh God! Alright. The three aspects of the goddess: in
the story of Perseus, there was Cassiopaea, Andromeda, and
Medusa... the three aspects, the mother, the virgin, and
the crone. But, in this story, Perseus manages to cut the
head off the crone. In other stories, the crone always
manages to win. Is there any particular reason why
Perseus cuts off the head of Medusa? Was this transposed?
Was the Medusa merely another aspect?
A: Serpentine.
Q: What about serpentine? Representative of the serpent race
or the Lizzies?
A: Eden.
Q: Was the story of Perseus the story of Eden? Was Medusa
the representative of the serpent of Eden?
A: Not quite.
Q: What are you alluding to that I am not getting? I feel
that I am out of sync with this conversation.
A: Out of sync only occurs when presupposition reigns
supreme.
Q: Well, it is not reigning supreme. The problem is: in the
oldest religions, it is the Goddess, the Mother, the
endless sea of potential of unassumed experience that was
the Goddess. There was unconditional love in the
beginning. But then, the patriarchal view twisted it and
it became violent and ugly and restrictive. And, from the
patriarchal view came the 'redeeming son' when before, it
was the redemption of the Goddess' blood. So, what I want
to know is: what happened to create the patriarchal
system? How was the Goddess suppressed?
A: All has been distorted and suppressed, so why not this?
Q: You once mentioned 'Greek Enforcers' who wrote the New
Testament. Where did these Greek Enforcers come from?
A: Order of Thelon.
Q: Never heard of it. On another occasion you called the
Nephilim 'enforcers.' Is there any relation between this
order of Thelon and the Nephilim?
A: Maybe...
Q: Where is the headquarters of this group?
A: Sicinthos.
Q: Is that a place? Never heard of it.
A: Yes.
Q: Okay. Next question: the White Mare Goddess image that
prefigured the Omega symbol, what is this related to?
A: Transcends.
Q: The White Mare transcends something?
A: Transcendental.
Q: What is the relationship of the White Mare to the
symbolism of the knight? The knight on the horse is
repeatedly used in alchemical symbolism.
A: Rites.
Q: One of the rites in question is that the making of the
knight involves touching both shoulders with the end of a
sword which is actually a symbolic beheading. Why is the
knight symbolically beheaded?
A: Blast open limitations of encasing spirit in body.

Q: So, all these stories being made up about all these people
and dramatic scenarios...
A: It is not the people but the message, the artifacts hold
the key.
Q: What artifacts? Where are these artifacts?
A: France, Spain, Canary Islands and Morocco.
Q: What kind of artifacts are they? Things that still exist?
A: Yes.
Q: Is there any possibility that I am going to be able to
find out about, or even actually FIND these artifacts?
A: Of course!!
Q: Does anyone else know about these artifacts?
A: Others are "on the trail."
Q: Is one of these artifacts the 'Virgin of Candelaria' that
appeared in the Canary Islands?
A: Related.
Q: Okay, well, I have learned anything about Morocco yet...
A: Best to get "on the trail of..."
Q: On the trail of what? Trail of the Lonesome Pine, Trail
of the Assassin... the Assassini?
A: Look for major conjunctions.
Q: Any more clues you want to give on that? Are we supposed
to actually physically go to these places?
A: What does "Casablanca" mean in Spanish?
Q: White House.
A: Yes...
Q: Related to the White House in Washington?
A: On the trail...
Q: You once said something about 'undreamed of treasures
buried in Alfalfa fields in Rhineland.' I have puzzled
over this and puzzled over this and gone in ten different
directions, and I still don't have a real handle on it.
Can you help me out here? Is this related to the crystal
skull supposedly in the possession of the Templars that
they supposedly buried in Gaul that the Templars had?
A: Need a better "handl" on it.
Q: George Friedrich? (A) No... (L) Well that is a funny
spelling. You also said something about records being in
the Hague. How am I supposed to check records in the
Hague? The only way is to go there...
A: Travel for you is okay in small doses.

Q: Okay. Next: On this subject of 'looking for the frequency
of light,' the 'undreamed of treasures in Rhineland,'
and needing a better 'handl' on it. I came to the
conclusion that it might be Liechtenstein because of the
'handle of a stein' and Liecht is light in German, so we
have the frequency of light with a handle on it, or
Liechtenstein. And, in this place there is a little town
called Triesen.
A: What does stein mean, is it "written in stone?"
Q: Stein as in 'grail,' and stone as in 'philosopher's.' So,
maybe we are getting close.
A: What does Einstein mean?
Q: 'One stone.' And a stein is a cup and a stone at the same
time. So, Triesen is in the 'beautiful countryside
between the Rhine and the alpine world.' There is an alp
called Lawena, nearby Lake Constance, and the Swiss canton
of St. Gallen. You said something about being buried in
'Galle' and this seems to have all the related elements
collected together... all the key words... so am I...
A: On the right track? It looks good.
Q: But how do alfalfa fields connect with all of this? There
is nothing about alfalfa? Comment?
A: You think there is no alfalfa in the Germanic highland?
Q: Well, are we supposed to go to Liechtenstein to find what
we are looking for?
A: Be patient... clues will progress nicely. Remember the
Canary Islands?

Q: (L) You said that Jesinavarah had three children with
three Roman women. I never asked if they were male or
female children. Were they male or female?
A: Vella? What would you suppose?
Q: (L) The names Vella, Rafae and Alicia were given as the
names of the three women who were the mothers. Was I
mistaken and did I garble it when it was really the names
of the children?
A: Sometimes, one follows another.
Q: (L) What were the names of the children of Jesus?
A: You have the clues, and your quest has been admirable so
far, why stop now?
Q: (L) So, I will find them! Okay.
A: Could be like the Holy Grail.
Q: (L) What could be like the Holy Grail?
A: Chalice.
Q: (L) What does the chalice represent?
A: What is its root?

Q: I want to ask a little bit about this book, 'The Tomb of
God,' and the clues it has given me, or that I THINK it
has given me, to tracking this treasure in the Rhineland.
Is this book, and the clues that I believe that I have
found in it, one of the major conjunctions that you
mentioned in a previous session?
A: Yes, but add some flour.
Q: What? Add some flour? Why did you say 'flour?'
A: Why do you think?
Q: What does flour do when you add it?
A: Clues, my dear, clues. That is what these are.
Q: What is the result when one adds flour?
A: Emulsion...
Q: What does one get from an emulsion?
A: Transference.
Q: Where should I look for the flour?
A: Whey.
Q: Am I correct in my idea that these paintings from this
manuscript produce...
A: Your are still on the trail... But one always when
termination is at hand.
Q: What? Termination is at hand?
A: Resolution.
Q: Were these guys in any way at all onto something when they
came up with the idea that Jesus was buried in France near
Carcassone?
A: Oh we cannot tell you that.
Q: Is there a time gate where this treasure is buried in the
Rhineland?
A: Stones.
Q: Is there any clue you can give me as to what to be looking
for specifically?
A: And you shall find that...

Q: (L) Okay, I stumbled across some information this week, quite by accident, about this Horsel business. What it says is: The moon-goddess, or Aphrodite, of the ancient Germans, was
called Horsel, or Ursula... she is the pure
Artemis; but, in accordance with her ancient character, she is
likewise the sensual Aphrodite, who haunts the Venusberg; and
this brings us to the story of Tannhauser. The Horselberg, or mountain of Venus, lies in Thuringia, between Eisenach and Gotha. High up on its slope yawns a cavern, the Horselloch, or cave of Venus within which is heard a muffled roar, as of subterranean water. From this cave, in
old times, the frightened inhabitants of the neighbouring valley would hear at night wild moans and cries issuing, mingled with peals of demon-like laughter. Here it was believed that Venus held her court; "and there were not a few who declared that they had seen fair forms of female beauty beckoning them from the mouth of the chasm. Tannhauser
was a Frankish knight and famous minnesinger, who, travelling at twilight past the Horselberg, "saw a white glimmering figure of matchless beauty standing before him and beckoning him to her." Leaving his horse, he went up to meet her, whom he knew to be none other than Venus. He descended to her palace in the heart of the mountain, and there passed seven years in careless revelry. Then, stricken with remorse and yearning for another glimpse of the pure light of day, he called in agony upon the Virgin Mother, who took compassion on him and released him. He sought a village church, and to
priest after priest confessed his sin, without obtaining absolution, until finally he had recourse to the Pope. But the holy father, horrified at the enormity of his misdoing, declared that guilt such as his could never be remitted sooner should the staff in his hand grow green and blossom. "Then Tannhauser, full of despair and with his soul darkened, went away, and returned to the only asylum open to him, the
Venusberg. But lo! three days after he had gone, Pope Urban discovered that his pastoral staff had put forth buds and had burst into flower. Then he sent messengers after Tannhauser, and they reached the Horsel vale to hear that a wayworn man, with haggard brow and bowed head, had Oust entered the Horselloch. Since then Tannhauser has not been seen. The curious thing about this "Horsel" is that it reminded me of the time that you said I needed to get a better 'handl' on the matter. You later gave the clue 'chevin,' which means a variation of 'horse,' and there has been the clue of the arms of Rene D'Anjou in the book The Tomb of God, which had the vine growing out of the split tree topped by the rock, through the 'handle' of the grail, then there was the book The Horse of God. One of the mythical stories repeated about this Abbe Berengar Sauniere, was that, on his deathbed, he made his confession and the priest who heard it refused him absolution and the last rites, and apparently fled from the house horrified. I don't know if that is true, but it is an interesting story in relation to this story about Tannhauser, particularly since Sauniere painted the decoration in his church of Mary Magdalene gazing at a stick with buds springing out of it, and she was depicted in a grotto, such as the Horselberg cave. Is this Horselberg something that we are looking for here?
A: Ever feel as if you are dancing around in circles?
Q: (L) Yes, but one of the unique things about this Horselberg business is that, the legend is that three 'fiery objects' landed on top of this mountain. And, if you draw a line from Horselberg, which is a 'big rock,' to the 'big rock' of Luxembourg, it crosses the Rhine exactly on the big rock of the Lorelei...
A: Tritium.
Q: (L) Well, Lorelei, translated from German, going back to the Saxon roots, is literally, 'Laura's rock.' I just thought that was VERY funny. You had said to look for the three, the 'triplicative connecting profile,' a rock, and you mentioned sirens. Lorelei later evolved into a story about sirens...
A: Tritium mines.
Q: (L)[To Ark] What is tritium? (A) In physics, it is an isotope of hydrogen. You have deuterium, and you have tritium, and you make fusion bombs out of tritium. (L) So, there are tritium mines there? (A) You cannot mine for tritium because it is a gas...
A: But what does it emanate from?
Q: (A) That's a good question. I don't know. We can find out.
A: Look for clue!
Q: (L) You say I am dancing around in circles...
A: We are saying, as always, pay attention to the words.
Q: (L) Well, this paper says also the following: the divining-rod itself is but one among a
large class of things to which popular belief has ascribed,
along with other talismanic properties, the power of opening
the ground or cleaving rocks, in order to reveal hidden
treasures. Leaving him in peace, then, with his bit of forked
hazel, to seek for cooling springs in some future thirsty
season, let us endeavour to elucidate the origin of this
curious superstition.

The detection of subterranean water is by no means the only
use to which the divining-rod has been put. Among the ancient
Frisians it was regularly used for the detection of criminals;
and the reputation of -acques Aymar was won by his discovery
of the perpetrator of a horrible murder at Lyons. Throughout
Europe it has been used from time immemorial by miners for
ascertaining the position of veins of metal; and in the days
when talents were wrapped in napkins and buried in the field,
instead of being exposed to the risks of financial
speculation, the divining-rod was employed by persons covetous
of their neighbours' wealth. If Boulatruelle had lived in the
sixteenth century, he would have taken a forked stick of hazel
when he went to search for the buried treasures of -ean
ValOean. It has also been applied to the cure of disease, and
has been kept in households, like a wizard's charm, to insure
general good-fortune and immunity from disaster.

As we follow the conception further into the elf-land of
popular tradition, we come upon a rod which not only points
out the situation of hidden treasure, but even splits open the
ground and reveals the mineral wealth contained therein. In
German legend, "a shepherd, who was driving his flock over the
Ilsenstein, having stopped to rest, leaning on his staff, the
mountain suddenly opened, for there was a springwort in his
staff without his knowing it, and the princess [Ilse] stood
before him. She bade him follow her, and when he was inside
the mountain she told him to take as much gold as he pleased.
The shepherd filled all his pockets, and was going away, when
the princess called after him, 'Forget not the best.' So,
thinking she meant that he had not taken enough, he filled his
hat also; but what she meant was his staff with the
springwort, which he had laid against the wall as soon as he
stepped in. But now, Oust as he was going out at the opening,
the rock suddenly slammed together and cut him in two. Here the rod derives its marvellous properties from the
enclosed springwort, but in many cases a leaf or flower is
itself competent to open the hillside. The little blue flower,
forget-me-not, about which so many sentimental associations
have clustered, owes its name to the legends told of its
talismanic virtues. So, here we also have staffs and flowers and birds and all sorts of things that can 'open the ground,' something going on underground, 'rock-breaking' plants, such as 'saxifrage' which became sassafras. It says here: 'the further we penetrate into this charmed circle of traditions, the more evident does it appear that the power of cleaving rocks or shattering hard substances, enters as a primitive element into the conception of these treasure showing talismans.' Then it talks about the schamir, by which aid Solomon was said to have built his temple, and that it is like a 'worm no bigger than a barleycorn' that could split the hardest substance. The bottom line is, that some kind of power, rock breaking, ground-penetrating power...
A: Does not gold conduct electricity, heat, etc.?
Q: (L) Yes, and gold is also called a ferrophile metal, or 'iron loving,' because it binds easily with iron.
A: And iron...
Q: (L) Iron in the blood... iron in the ground...
A: Magnetic...
Q: (L) Exactly. Anyway, somehow, all this connects backward to something that Solomon used to build his temple, and you told us previously that the secret that the Templars discovered UNDER the temple, was something that related anti-gravity and that it was 'buried in Galle.' So, yes, we are going in circles. Can you comment on my comments?
A: Circles, hmmm...
Q: (L) Yes, they are circles. The next thing we come to is that I discovered that alfalfa, in fact, a very particular type of alfalfa, does, indeed, grow in the German highlands. And, in fact, this alfalfa was brought via a route that you described... as France, Spain, Canary Islands, Morocco. I was asking about this story of the purported travels of Mary Magdalene, and you said that the people were not important, that the message was. You then said that the 'artifacts hold the key' and listed this sequence of places. I found a paper on the subject of alfalfa which described this exact route of the spread of alfalfa and it's value in farming because it literally replenishes the ground it is grown in. So, it seems that you were describing the route of the alfalfa plant. Can you comment on this?
A: Now that you have found this out, perhaps you should research the properties of this mineral richa alfalfa and what it does for the body of homo sapiens?!?
Q: (L) That is an interesting thing. Alfalfa was named as the 'father of foods,' and was grown, primarily for, interestingly, horses! And, we have chevin and the 'Horse of God.' Anyway, one of the primary areas where this particular type of alfalfa was grown happens to be in Baden, right next door to this Horselberg... right off the banks of the Rhine. There is a valley there. Clover is, of course, a variation of alfalfa, and 'dale' is a depression in the groung. Could this be right there next to the location of the Lorelei rock off the Rhine?
A: Closer, and what of the four leaves?
Q: Yes, indeed. I will work on that. Now, one other thing I found was: here we have this legend of this Lorelei which became confused with mermaids. Now, the legend is that the house of D'Anjou was descended from the fairy-wife of Ingelgar, Melusine, who was a mermaid type creature. And, on the other side, we have the legend of the descent of the Merovingians from a 'Quinotaur' which was sort of described as a mer-man. I find it curious that both of these lines have legends of descending from these half-fish creatures, similar to the god Oannes of the Babylonians, and now we have the connection to the Lorelei which was confused with a mermaid. And, it is right there in the specific location along the Rhine where both of these families could be said to have 'emerged,' if not originated. Tannhauser was a form of the Frankish Odysseus, which connects us to the idea of the siren, and you mentioned the sirens as being a clue. Could you comment on that, please?
A: Siren song? What of this? What have we alluded to before about sound?
Q: (L) I was thinking that the 'siren song' is probably a mythical representation of anti-gravity.
A: Close.
Q: (L) Can you give me another clue?
A: No, you do not need one.
Q: (L) Okay, meanwhile back at Rennes-le-Chateau, there are these three priests and a bishop who have more money than they ought to have. Clearly, there is something going on there. My thought is, after analyzing it is, the purported 'parchments' found in the column of the altar in the church there, were never really found, that they and the purported code were both made up as a clever fraud; the whole thing was made up, yet there IS a mystery there. I also think that the connecting of the Shepherds of Arcadia painting to that church, that area of France, is fraudulent also. The smokescreen is being focused there to keep it from being directed elsewhere. Am I on the right track here?
A: Well, quite simply we would say, where is Arcadia?
Q: (L) Arcadia was Turkey. You have made many references to Turkey, to Troy, which was located in what is not Turkey. A lot of funny stuff tracks back there. And, Troy means 'three.' Interesting.
A: Tis a clue for you, not a destination!
Q: (L) Well, can you tell me just exactly what these guys, these priests, were getting paid to do or not do? What was the money changing hands for? It was a lot of bucks...
A: Keepers of the guard.
Q: (L) Guard of what?
A: Whatever was going on there.
Q: (L) It seems sort of significant to me that, when one of them was getting ready to retire, he was brutally murdered, and seemingly tortured before his death, and the following year this Abbe Sauniere purchased a large tract of land. Was there any connection between Sauniere and the death of Abbe Gelis?
A: Not the point. What happens to those who "know too much?"
Q: (L) Who was paying them? What was the source of the money?
A: Not available to you yet.
Q: (L) Was it true that, before he died, Sauniere made his confession and was refused absolution?
A: Not right track.
Q: (L) Were there ANY parchments found in the church there?
A: Ditto.
Q: (L) This gal, Martha Neyman, taking the story at face value, has walked around there and found all kinds of funny things, and she lines them up based on her formula, and they form 'amazing patterns' and so forth. Well, everybody has a different formula, everybody has a different theory and method, and they all seem to be finding things.... Their findings just seem to 'mesh' so synchronously with their theories and methods... it is totally amazing! It is like the UFO phenomenon. No matter what assumptions you start with, you can find evidence to prove your point! Things miraculously are THERE to support you!
A: That is why we gently prod you upon your quest, all the while suggesting patience, and no anticipation.
Q: (L) Okay. Mike had a couple of questions. (M) Rennes-le-Chateau is on one of six peaks that form a very regular pentagon with La Pique in the center. Is this a natural formation, or is it a construction, or is it altered?
A: Not important. What is, is what is the effect?
Q: (M) Is this formation significant to the mystery of the area?
A: Most likely, eh?
Q: (M) The churches and castles in the area follow a very regular pattern. Are they built upon the foundations of previous structures, or cities, like lost Visigothic cities?
A: Best to refer to the 1954 UFO study done over the French countryside.
Q: (M) What are the beehive huts in the area?
A: Not germaine.
Q: M) Is Horselberg related in any way to this area?
A: No.
Q: (L) You said at one point that I should transfer the search to the United States and quit messing around in Europe. I have pored over maps for days, I have examined the index in the Atlas, and, aside from Hot Springs, Arkansas, and Tempe, Arizona, and the Plains of San Augustin, Socorro, Roswell, Magdalena, etc., nothing has really caught my eye. None of those places configure in any way that makes sense to me. Can you help me out here?
A: Horseheads, N.Y.
Q: (L) Does this mean.... Horsehead, New York?
A: Horseheads.
Q: (A) In what way is this to be related?
A: Is a key. Need lots of keys to unlock the house of gables.
Q: (L) Seven. Seven keys. Aaaaah... there's Horsecave, Kentucky...
A: Anywhere near Mammoth Cave?
Q: (L) Yes, I believe so. Help me out here!
A: We are.
Q: (L) I feel like I just got picked up by the 'great Roc' and carried across the ocean and dropped, 'SPLAT' in the middle of another continent, without a clue about where to look!
A: We did not say "quit messing around in Europe." Just do not limit it to that.
Q: (L) Well, I STILL want to know what is at the root of the mystery of Rennes-le-Chateau, and why all this 'cottage industry' in treasure hunting is going on there...
A: Treasure hunters lack patience in their quest.
Q: (A) Is there something about these places, properties of certain minerals located at these sites around the world, is this an important factor?
A: Partly.
Q: (A) Okay, there are three possibilities. The first possibility is there are some important places because they are located in a special geo-magnetic position; second, these places are important because there are some natural resources there which make possible there something which is very difficult in other places. The third possibility is that these places have been used many, many years ago to bury some technological devices... and these three things can be related....
A: And all three can be true, in fact.

Q: Well, while we are on the subject of spelling, you DO use unusual spelling from time to time, though normally you are very good spellers. What rules direct your spelling since it is not always according to modern usage?
A: No rules, just clues, as allways.
Q: Does this refer also to the way you spell 'germain'? When you say 'it is not germain,' you spell it differently from the way someone would spell it if just saying that something is not relevant.
A: Tis French, as in clue to be.
Q: Now, in reference to your question to me: 'where is Arcadia,' that I need to look at this some more, I was reading in Gregory of Tours' History of the Franks, and he was recounting that the Franks who colonized along the Rhine in the area about which we are seeking clues, came from an area called Pannonia. I looked up Pannonia. It is in Eastern Austria and crosses the border into Hungary. In Pannonia there are vineyards. It is a very famous grape growing and wine making area. A statement from the 4th century says: 'Pannonia is a land rich in all resources and fruits, beasts and commerce.' Pannonia is also the location of an interesting lake. The lake is called Neusiedl, or 'New Town.' This is the only 'steppe lake' in all of Europe. It is only six feet deep at it's deepest point and is a giant, shallow sweet body of water surrounded on the Eastern bank by marshlands, numerous salty ponds and pools. Apparently, this place produces a very fine environment for grapes and wine, in particular a type of wine called 'Eiswein.' This Eiswein is called 'The treasure of liquid gold.' It says here: 'the production of Eiswein remains the winemakers ultimate challenge.' Only a small amount of this wine is produced. Etomologically speaking, Pannonia is probably named after the God 'Pan,' and that derived from Sylvanus, the 'Shepherd God.' So, all in one spot, we have shepherds, a wine called liquid gold, a lake called Neusiedl, and an 'Arcadian environment.' Can you tell me if there is any particular significance to my discovery of the terms relating to this area from whence came the Franks to the Rhineland? Is this, in fact, Arcadia?
A: Arcadia is a crossroads for the one Essene, the Aryan one of Trent.
Q: Can you clarify that for me?
A: We can, but shall not.
Q: Is the fact that we have had some eggnog this evening going to be detrimental?
A: No.
Q: Can you comment on Pannonia in general? Is it in any way significant? This lake Neusiedl?
A: Eiswein: Eisenstadt.
Q: Any further comment?
A: No.
Q: Now, I was preparing these genealogies to print for Christmas and, while waiting for them to print, I wondered who would be last if one started at the present and worked backward... not specifically in terms of time, but in terms of generations. I wondered WHO the tree would end with. Well, it ended with the Frankish King Clovis. So, I wondered about your use of the term 'cloverdale,' and how it might relate to Clovis. Is it a deliberate or accidental connection?
A: Your quest is your own. We do not "steer." We supply the mortar, you are the Masoness.
Q: Well, I don't know how to take that! I mean, the Masons could be the most evil organization in existence! BRH thinks so.
A: Such judgements miss the point, if there are keys stored within the envelope.

Q: Well, let me get to some of these other questions. Previously you said that the central thing about the Nordic Covenant was that there were bloodlines that extend off the planet. From what I understand, all humans on the planet have bloodlines that extend off the planet. In what sense did you mean this about the Nordic Covenant; that the bloodlines extend off the planet?

A: Not all so recent, not all so "pure."

Q: In the sense of recent, how recent do you mean?

A: Speculate, using your transcripts.

Q: I am reading some books about the various members of these families that were involved in all these strange things back in the 12th century. What I would like to know is, were all of these people as licentious and corrupt as these books make them out to be?

A: No.

Q: Well, the awful stuff that gets written about incest, sexual abuse of young girls, and all kinds of really dreadful behavior among these people. Henry II was actually at war against his own sons and kept his wife in prison for years... it just makes one ashamed to be connected to these disgusting people! But, you are saying that this is an incorrect portrayal?

A: No, "people" are always dubious form some perspective or another.

Q: Why is there a legend that the King of the Franks could heal with the touch of his hand?

A: So can you.

Q: As in anybody?

A: Close, if you have the knowledge...

Q: I am inferring from what you are saying that the Franks had knowledge of some order, passed down through the royal families, or the kings...

A: On an individual basis, it has always been thus.

Q: On a couple of occasions when you have made the remark 'it is not germaine,' using that peculiar spelling, did you mean that it was not only NOT German, but also NOT French?

A: Maybe.

Q: So, we are back to something else. I once asked about the Third Man Theme and that perhaps you meant that the imagery was that of the Triple Goddess relating to the Isle of Man... and you said 'if viewed through sheets of rain.' So, in this book that I am reading, it talks about the fact that the Celts of Gaul worshipped the Rain as the manifestation of the Goddess, and the Celts of Scotland worshipped the Sun... the male God. Does this relate in any way to this remark you made about sheets of rain?

A: In an offhand way.

Q: Anything further you can tell me in terms of a clue about 'sheets of rain?'

A: Not for now, when you get there, you will find the chalice.

Q: Where and WHAT chalice?

A: Wait and see!

Q: (L) What is the difference between Galle and Gaul?
A: Clue.
Q: (L) Do they both refer to France?
A: No.
Q: (L) Does Galle refer to Rhineland?
A: Close.
Q: (L) I discovered today that one of the Maltese islands, the one that is now called Gozo, was once called "Gaul." Is that getting closer?
A: Close.
Q: (L) You aren't going to tell me that. (TB) And you're sure it's not Sri Lanka? (L) Is it Sri Lanka?
A: No.

 

[John G]

Reading all that together from a northeastern steppe point of view kind of sounds Arkaim-like:

_http://balkhandshambhala.blogspot.com/2013/02/shambhala-ancient-arkaim.html

Saturday, February 9, 2013
Shambhala & Ancient Arkaim

Arkaim (Russian: Аркаим) is an archaeological site situated in the Southern Urals....The site is generally dated to the 17th century BC. Earlier dates, up to the 20th century BC, have been proposed. It was a settlement of the Sintashta-Petrovka culture.... Arkaim is similar in form but much better preserved than neighbouring Sintashta, where the earliest chariot was unearthed. The site was protected by two circular walls. There was a central square, surrounded by two circles of dwellings separated by a street.....There are four entrances into the settlement through the outer and inner wall with the main entrance to the west.....Zdanovich estimates that approximately 1500 to 2500 people could have lived in the settlement......The 17th century date suggests that the settlement was about co-eval to, or just post-dating, the Indo-Aryan migration into South Asia and Mesopotamia (the Gandhara grave culture appearing in the Northern Pakistan from ca. 1600 BC, the Indo-European Mitanni rulers reached Anatolia before 1500 BC, both roughly 3,000 kilometres (1,900 mi) removed from the Sintashta-Petrovka area)....early investigators described Arkaim as "Swastika City", "Mandala City", and "the ancient capital of early Aryan civilization, as described in the Avesta and Vedas". The swastika description refers to the floor plan of the site, which may appear similar to the ancient swastika symbol....Newly found artifacts make the site itself much older; scientists agree on it being at least as old as Troy and the Egyptian pyramids; it dates back to the 4th millennium BC. It is said to be older then Stonehenge (3300 BC)....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkaim

"Ar-ka means sky, and Im means earth, says Alex Sparkey, a Russian writer. He explains that this means Arkaim is a place where the Sky touches the Earth. Here the material and the spiritual are inseparable."...Alex Sparkey, The Ancient Land of Arkaim, from Spirit of Ma’at: Russia: Land of Living Mysticism, Vol. 3, No. 9, 3.

"Built on the same circular principle as Troy, as described in Homer’s Iliad, but at least six hundred years older, Arkaim finds its prototype in Plato’s Atlantis with its three concentric circles of canals....the swastika, thought to be the exclusively Aryan symbol of sun-worship misappropriated by the Nazis,7 and found depicted on many of the clay pots unearthed in Arkaim, is an older religious and metaphysical symbol than that attached to the Aryan Sun God, its roots lying in totemic shamanism. René Guénon, the eminent French esotericist, points out that the swastika, symbolising eternal motion around a motionless centre, is a polar rather than a solar symbol, and as such was a symbol central to the Pole star cult, originally dedicated to a planetary deity connected to Ursa Major, the Great Bear. This centre, Guénon stresses, “constitutes the fixed point known symbolically to all traditions as the ‘pole’ or axis around which the world rotates…” The swastika is therefore known world-wide as the ‘sign of the pole.....René Guénon, The Lord of the World, Octagon Press, U.K., 1983, 9.

This research explores ancient Shamis en Balkh (Sam-i-bala, Bactra, Zariasta) as the heart of the 'legendary' Kingdom of Shambhala....and the surrounding regions and rich cultures of Tagzig, Oddiyana, Bactria, Kapisa, Olmo Lungring, Zhang-Zhung, Gandharva and Uighur. Shambhala viewed as a Sacral Kingdom (Elevated candle, higher light, divine light, forehead vision, etc. ) at one of the great crossroads of the ancient world.

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,3548.msg23904.html#msg23904

It is supposed, that this shaft has been erected approximately in the second millenium B.C. by powerful race, nowadays completely dissapeared. Hypothesis of existence in Ural Mountains an ancient civilization is supported by existence in Southern Urals Mountains, in territory of modern Chelyabinsk area of a mysterious city of Arkaim which, probably, was the largest cultural and economic center of that ancient civilization of followers of Zoroastrism. Most likely, thousand years ago citizens of Arkaim knew well metallurgical manufacturing process. Most likely, they also constructed Volga historical shaft as a defence system. According to archeologic data in the second millenium B.C. Arkaim literally in one day has stopped the existence on the unknown grounds.

 

[Martina]

hello!
I was just thinking that worshiping of Mithra was popular in the 3. century among Balkan soldiers, at that time couple of emperors were also from that area and because their power was getting weaker, they needed their soldiers and to get their obedience and the respect, they began to transform themselves into divine gods. The emperor was supposed to be connected with some god, it could be from some old cult like Jupiter or Hercules or the Sun god. At the same time the court ceremonies were created, lots of temples were build where you could worship your emperor. So when forming a new religion you had to put Cesar in, because he is the founder of this ruling form and by being his successor you hat to turn him into a god. Also he probably was seen in the eyes of new generations of solders, who haven't live in his time as somebody very heroic and godlike.

 

[Mike]

Yeah really interesting. From reading the above link it really does seem like competition between the two that came to head with Constantine, who seemed to make changes, etc that mixed aspects of the two to start to form the Catholic church. I've been searching for book by Aiken C.F. 'Mithraism and Christianity' cited numerous times in the link since it looked to be interesting as a place to start reading and researching and it is hardly mentioned on the internet that I could find let alone finding a copy of it.

Turns out it wasn't a book written by Aiken, but a short article in a Catholic publication. FWIW here is the book it is in - Aiken starts on page 377. Not sure if it adds much because Aiken sings the praises of the Catholic church etc, but figured I'd mention it.

http://books.google.com/books?id=FccAAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[aragorn]

Just received an email from Amazon saying that they've shipped the Carrotta book. I should have it in a week or so. What a relief.

 

[Mike]

I actually received my copy today! I'm pretty happy after trying to get a copy since mid-July.

 

[Eboard10]

I actually received my copy today! I'm pretty happy after trying to get a copy since mid-July.

Glad to hear you received your copy Bear. I also got mine from Amazon UK a couple of weeks ago and had placed the order back at the end of July. Can't wait to get my hands on it! (reading Weinstock's Divus Julius atm).

 

[MK Scarlett]

The same here, I will receive my copy on Saturday, almost three months after the order...

 

[Lindenlea]

Just received an email from Amazon saying that they've shipped the Carrotta book. I should have it in a week or so. What a relief.

Same for me, so happy :)

 

[Olesya]

From reading Laura's latest post, I think that the central theme here is the topic of the spirit of the Devine Femenine, i.e. Triple Goddess, i.e. Athena/Juno/Clemencia (and I think it's a good thing to keep in mind that in different cultures these Goddesses had different names), which is an eternal flame, I think, and as a consequence, the lives of great women (and men) throughout human history as the living incarnations of this Devine Spirit. So, I think it maybe a good approach and needs to be investigated it further.

Through a quick search, I got the following clues: "Royal Scyths" (Scōloti, Sacae, Skuda, Sai), Old Persian culture, "Scytho-Siberian"culture, "Timber Grave"(or Srubna) culture, Cimmerians, Yamnaya culture into the Andronovo culture, Ruthenians (Ruthene or Rusyn), rutilated glass or quartz... And all of it points out to Ukraine and the region sometimes known in English as Galicia (Ukrainian: Галичина, Halychyna; Polish: Galicja and; Slovak: Halič) _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruthenians

While reading Laura's post, I suddenly remembered a great Love story that left great impression on me when I read it as a child. It's the Story of the Turkish Sultan and his beloved wife Roxelana. From Wiki here _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roxelana:

Hürrem Haseki Sultan (Turkish pronunciation: [hyɾˈɾem haseˈci suɫˈtaːn], Ottoman Turkish: خرم سلطان, c. 1500 – 15 April 1558, birthname unknown, according to later traditions either Alexandra Lisowska or Anastasia, also known as Roxelana, was the legal wife and haseki sultan of Suleiman the Magnificent and mother of Şehzade Mehmed, Mihrimah Sultan, Sultan Selim II, Şehzade Bayezid and Şehzade Cihangir of the Ottoman Empire. She was one of the most powerful women in Ottoman history and a prominent figure during the era known as the Sultanate of Women. She achieved power and influenced the politics of the Ottoman Empire through her husband and played an active role in state affairs of the Empire.

She was known mainly as Haseki Hürrem Sultan or Hürrem Haseki Sultan; in European languages as Roxolena, Roxolana, Roxelane, Rossa, Ruzica; in Turkish as Hürrem (from Persian: خرم‎ Khurram, "the cheerful one"); and in Arabic as Karima (Arabic: كريمة‎, "the noble one"). "Roxelana" might be not a proper name but a nickname, referring to her Ukrainian heritage (cf. the common contemporary name "Ruslana"); "Roxolany" or "Roxelany" was one of the names of Ukrainians, East Slavs, inhabitants of the present Ukraine, up to the 15th century, after the ancient Roxolani. Thus her name would literally mean "The Ruthenian One".

Modern sources don't contain data on her childhood, being limited to a mention of her Ukraine origin. So Mikhalon Lytvyn who in the middle of the 16th century was the ambassador of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania in the Crimean khanate, in the composition of 1548–1551 "About customs of Tatars, Lithuanians and Moscow" (lat. De moribus tartarorum, lituanorum et moscorum) at the description of trade specifies by slaves that "and the most beloved wife of the present Turkish emperor mother of his primogenital [son] who will govern after it, was kidnapped from our earth" (Yermolenko G. Roxolana: "The Greatest Empresse of the East". — P. 234

According to late 16th-century and early 17th-century sources, such as the Polish poet Samuel Twardowski, who researched the subject in Turkey, Hürrem was seemingly born to a father who was a Ukrainian Orthodox priest. She was born in the town of Rohatyń, 68 km southeast of Lviv, a major city of the Ruthenian Voivodeship in the Crown of the Kingdom of Poland (today in western Ukraine). In the 1520s, she was captured by Crimean Tatars during one of their frequent raids into this region and taken as a slave, probably first to the Crimean city of Kaffa, a major centre of the slave trade, then to Istanbul, and was selected for Süleyman’s harem.

She quickly came to the attention of her master, and attracted the jealousy of her rivals. She soon proved to be Suleiman’s favorite consort or Haseki Sultan. Hürrem’s influence over the Sultan soon became legendary. She was to bear five of Suleiman's fourteen children and in an astonishing break with tradition, she was eventually freed. Breaking with two centuries of Ottoman tradition, a former concubine had thus become the legal wife of the Sultan, much to the astonishment of observers in the palace and the city. It made Suleiman the first Ottoman emperor to have a wed wife since Orhan Gazi and strengthened Hürrem's position in the palace and eventually led to one of her sons, Selim, inheriting the empire.

In the Constantinople harem, Hürrem Sultan was a very influential rival for Mahidevran Sultan. Hürrem gave birth to her first son Mehmed in 1521 (who died in 1543) and then Selim (future sultan Selim II) in 1524, destroying Mahidevran’s status of being the mother of the sultan’s only son. The rivalry between the two women was partially suppressed by Ayşe Hafsa Sultan, Suleiman’s mother, but after her death in 1534, as a result of the bitter rivalry a fight between the two women broke out, with Mahidevran beating Hürrem. This angered Suleiman, who subsequently sent Mahidevran to live with her son, Şehzade Mustafa, in the provincial capital of Manisa. This exile was shown officially as the traditional training of heir apparents, Sanjak Beyliği. Many years later, towards the end of Suleiman’s long reign, the rivalry between his sons became evident. Furthermore, both Hürrem Sultan and the grand vizier Rüstem Pasha (Hürrem's son-in-law) turned him against Mustafa and Mustafa was accused of causing unrest. During the campaign against Safavid Persia in 1553, because of a fear of rebellion, Sultan Suleiman ordered the execution of Mustafa. After the death of Mustafa, Mahidevran Gülbahar lost her state in the palace (as being the mother of the heir apparent) and moved to Bursa.

Suleiman also allowed Hürrem Sultan to remain with him at court for the rest of her life, breaking another tradition—that when imperial heirs came of age, they would be sent along with the imperial concubine who bore them to govern remote provinces of the Empire, never to return unless their progeny succeeded to the throne (Sanjak Beyliği). Hürrem also acted as Suleiman’s advisor on matters of state, and seems to have had an influence upon foreign affairs and international politics. Two of her letters to King Sigismund II Augustus of Poland have been preserved, and during her lifetime, the Ottoman Empire generally had peaceful relations with the Polish state within a Polish–Ottoman alliance.

Under his pen name, Muhibbi, Sultan Suleiman composed this poem for Hürrem Sultan:

"Throne of my lonely niche, my wealth, my love, my moonlight.

My most sincere friend, my confidant, my very existence, my Sultan, my one and only love.

The most beautiful among the beautiful...

My springtime, my merry faced love, my daytime, my sweetheart, laughing leaf...

My plants, my sweet, my rose, the one only who does not distress me in this world...

My Constantinople, my Caraman, the earth of my Anatolia

My Badakhshan, my Baghdad and Khorasan

My woman of the beautiful hair, my love of the slanted brow, my love of eyes full of mischief...

I'll sing your praises always

I, lover of the tormented heart, Muhibbi of the eyes full of tears, I am happy."

 

[Laura]

Through a quick search, I got the following clues: "Royal Scyths" (Scōloti, Sacae, Skuda, Sai), Old Persian culture, "Scytho-Siberian"culture, "Timber Grave"(or Srubna) culture, Cimmerians, Yamnaya culture into the Andronovo culture, Ruthenians (Ruthene or Rusyn), rutilated glass or quartz... And all of it points out to Ukraine and the region sometimes known in English as Galicia (Ukrainian: Галичина, Halychyna; Polish: Galicja and; Slovak: Halič) _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruthenians

While reading Laura's post, I suddenly remembered a great Love story that left great impression on me when I read it as a child. It's the Story of the Turkish Sultan and his beloved wife Roxelana. From Wiki here _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roxelana:

Don't see that either of these things have anything to do with Julius Caesar as the prototype for the myth of Jesus.

 

[Olesya]

Through a quick search, I got the following clues: "Royal Scyths" (Scōloti, Sacae, Skuda, Sai), Old Persian culture, "Scytho-Siberian"culture, "Timber Grave"(or Srubna) culture, Cimmerians, Yamnaya culture into the Andronovo culture, Ruthenians (Ruthene or Rusyn), rutilated glass or quartz... And all of it points out to Ukraine and the region sometimes known in English as Galicia (Ukrainian: Галичина, Halychyna; Polish: Galicja and; Slovak: Halič) _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruthenians

While reading Laura's post, I suddenly remembered a great Love story that left great impression on me when I read it as a child. It's the Story of the Turkish Sultan and his beloved wife Roxelana. From Wiki here _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roxelana:

Don't see that either of these things have anything to do with Julius Caesar as the prototype for the myth of Jesus.

I don't understand it fully yet, it's just an impression I got from reading reading quotes from your post, Laura. I'll write later on.