Was Julius Caesar the real Jesus Christ?

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Interesting article just came out where Biblical scholars are corroborating Laura's research:

_http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm

Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'
Biblical scholars will be appearing at the 'Covert Messiah' Conference at Conway Hall in London on the 19th of October to present this controversial discovery to the British public.

[...]
Atwill's most intriguing discovery came to him while he was studying "Wars of the Jews" by Josephus [the only surviving first-person historical account of first-century Judea] alongside the New Testament. "I started to notice a sequence of parallels between the two texts," he recounts. "Although it's been recognised by Christian scholars for centuries that the prophesies of Jesus appear to be fulfilled by what Josephus wrote about in the First Jewish-Roman war, I was seeing dozens more. What seems to have eluded many scholars is that the sequence of events and locations of Jesus ministry are more or less the same as the sequence of events and locations of the military campaign of [Emperor] Titus Flavius as described by Josephus. This is clear evidence of a deliberately constructed pattern. The biography of Jesus is actually constructed, tip to stern, on prior stories, but especially on the biography of a Roman Caesar."

How could this go unnoticed in the most scrutinised books of all time? "Many of the parallels are conceptual or poetic, so they aren't all immediately obvious. After all, the authors did not want the average believer to see what they were doing, but they did want the alert reader to see it. An educated Roman in the ruling class would probably have recognised the literary game being played." Atwill maintains he can demonstrate that "the Roman Caesars left us a kind of puzzle literature that was meant to be solved by future generations, and the solution to that puzzle is 'We invented Jesus Christ, and we're proud of it.'"

Is this the beginning of the end of Christianity? "Probably not," grants Atwill, "but what my work has done is give permission to many of those ready to leave the religion to make a clean break. We've got the evidence now to show exactly where the story of Jesus came from. Although Christianity can be a comfort to some, it can also be very damaging and repressive, an insidious form of mind control that has led to blind acceptance of serfdom, poverty, and war throughout history. To this day, especially in the United States, it is used to create support for war in the Middle East."

Atwill encourages skeptics to challenge him at Conway Hall, where after the presentations there is likely to be a lively Q&A session. Joining Mr.Atwill will be fellow scholar Kenneth Humphreys, author of the book "Jesus Never Existed."

Would be interesting to obtain a video of this Conway Hall conference, just to see what kind of discussion ensues.

 

[Leòmhann]

Interesting article just came out where Biblical scholars are corroborating Laura's research:

_http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm

Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'
Biblical scholars will be appearing at the 'Covert Messiah' Conference at Conway Hall in London on the 19th of October to present this controversial discovery to the British public.

[...]

Would be interesting to obtain a video of this Conway Hall conference, just to see what kind of discussion ensues.

Yes, excellent find, SAO :) I agree, it would, most definitely, be extremely interesting to get such a conference video...also, SoTT has it up now, too [_http://www.sott.net/article/267291-Ancient-confession-found-We-invented-Jesus-Christ]...concerning, this part,

[...]
Joseph Atwill will be appearing before the British public for the first time in London on the 19th of October to present a controversial new discovery: ancient confessions recently uncovered now prove, according to Atwill, that the New Testament was written by first-century Roman aristocrats and that they fabricated the entire story of Jesus Christ.

it will be interesting to see whether Atwill's presentation is based on newly discovered, "smoking-gun", hard evidence (archaeological? an artifact stealthily whisked out of the Vatican's archives from an insider?) or whether it will be a roll-out of previously released material, perhaps expounded upon and/or crafted differently to make it more palatable for public offering...

 

[Palinurus]

It appears we have a short thread on Atwill here in which Laura states:

I've read almost the entire Atwill book and all I can say is that the guy is one sick puppy.

Other sources:

_http://caesarsmessiah.com/blog/ (Atwill)

_http://jesusneverexisted.com/ (Humphreys)

 

[Laura]

It appears we have a short thread on Atwill here in which Laura states:

I've read almost the entire Atwill book and all I can say is that the guy is one sick puppy.

Other sources:

_http://caesarsmessiah.com/blog/ (Atwill)

_http://jesusneverexisted.com/ (Humphreys)

Yeah, true. Some of the things he writes - his attitudes - are just over the top. But I've also added in some other posts that he IS onto something there, but it is only part of the story and not quite as big a part as he thinks it is.

 

[Palinurus]

Yeah, true. Some of the things he writes - his attitudes - are just over the top. But I've also added in some other posts that he IS onto something there, but it is only part of the story and not quite as big a part as he thinks it is.

Would this conference then maybe just be part of an upcoming cointelpro effort to derail the discussion and/or muddy the waters even before your upcoming volume sees the light of day? Or can this still be considered as part of a meaningful academic discussion without hidden (political) agenda?

Just wondering, especially about the timing of it all. fwiw.

 

[Leòmhann]

Yeah, true. Some of the things he writes - his attitudes - are just over the top. But I've also added in some other posts that he IS onto something there, but it is only part of the story and not quite as big a part as he thinks it is.

Would this conference then maybe just be part of an upcoming cointelpro effort to derail the discussion and/or muddy the waters even before your upcoming volume sees the light of day? Or can this still be considered as part of a meaningful academic discussion without hidden (political) agenda?

Just wondering, especially about the timing of it all. fwiw.

...yep, very curious, I agree and was kinda wondering the same thing, whether there may be something afoot, some kind of water-muddying setup possibly going on here...

 

[Laura]

Hard to say. It would be interesting to know what he is going to talk about - IF it is anything more than is in his book. PRWeb is a paid news release thing, I believe.

 

[stellar]

I don't see Carotta's work or videos promoted and it does sound like something they would push to precede Laura's next volume too.

 

[Mike]

Looks like there is going to be screening of his documentary that is based on his book.
_http://caesarsmessiah.com/blog/2013/08/very-pleased-to-announce-our-u-k-premiere-screening/#more-236

We are very excited to announce the U.K. Premiere Screening of our Caesar’s Messiah documentary on Oct. 19, 2013

The documentary can be purchased (online streaming) via amazon and a DVD from the Caesar’s Messiah documentary webpage.

And he is also working on another book 'The Single Strand', so maybe he will talk about it some and is trying to drum up some interest.

 

[shijing]

And he is also working on another book 'The Single Strand', so maybe he will talk about it some and is trying to drum up some interest.

Here's a summary of the new book that Atwill wrote on his blog:

_http://caesarsmessiah.com/blog/2013/04/my-upcoming-work-the-single-strand/

My upcoming work The Single Strand explains the mysterious NT character ‘Paul’. The first mystery concerning Paul is why did the author of Acts change his name from ‘Saul’ to ‘Paul’, a word that means ‘tiny’. The truth behind Saul’s nickname is viscous humor that makes fun of the fact that Paul was not merely circumcised but castrated. The story of Paul’s castration is black comedy and is given in Acts 13 1-9.

Prior to the scene in Acts 13 Saul/Paul had attacked a member of the ‘way’ – Stephan – who has been preaching for ‘Jesus’, in other words, Stephan had been preaching for the Flavian Christ. Following this event Saul shows up in Antioch with a group that includes a ‘stepbrother’ of Herod. Then the ‘Holy Spirit’, for some reason, orders Saul ‘separated’ – the Greek word used can also mean ‘severed’ – and the group then “placed their hands on him” – the word used for “placed” can also mean ‘attack’. Following the event Saul becomes ‘Paul’, a word that means ‘tiny’. In other words, Paul has been ‘severed’ – or castrated – by the group led by Herod’s ‘stepbrother’ as revenge for his participation in the attack on a member of the ‘Way’ – the Caesars’ version of Judaism. This was how Saul became ‘Tiny’.

To digress, this analysis shows not only the reason why the Romans named the character ‘Paul’, but why they gave him his original name of ‘Saul’. Saul was the Jewish king that had demanded David obtain ‘a hundred Gentile foreskins’ and the Romans named their character ‘Saul’ to imply that his ‘circumcision’ involved – like the one ordered by his OT ‘forerunner’ – more than a single foreskin. The author of Acts ‘clarifies’ the relationship by actually mentioning the OT Saul in the passage where ‘Saul’ becomes ‘Tiny’ – Acts 13:21. The author also notes that the OT Saul’s reign had the space of forty years. This ‘foresees’ the forty years between the beginning of Paul’s ‘ministry’ at approximately 40 CE and the start of Domitian’s reign in 81 CE – a roughly forty year cycle parallel to the one which linked Jesus to Titus.

This analysis enables the real nature of ‘Paul’ to be understood. Paul begins as ‘Saul’, a messianic rebel fighting against the ‘Way’, which is the Flavians’ Christ cult, but has an epiphany and is ‘converted’ to belief in ‘Christ Jesus’, in other words he understands that Caesar is the Christ.

 

[H-KQGE]

Here's Conway Hall's official page for the event.

Special Events
Covert Messiah: Is Christianity the genesis of modern psychological warfare?
Sat 19 Oct 2013, 9.30
Widerstanding presents
Covert Messiah
A one-day symposium which will present and discuss recent evidence that sheds new light on the dark origins of Christianity.
Jesus Christ promoted love, charity, humility, peace, and justice, but established history tells us that Christianity became entangled in politics, wealth, violence, and empire because the institutional religion strayed from the moral teachings of its founder. How did it go so wrong? The latest in Biblical scholarship has now uncovered new evidence that provides a disturbing explanation: Christianity never strayed; Jesus Christ is a fabricated cover story for an Imperial psychological warfare operation born out of the First Jewish-Roman War in the first century.
Far-fetched and absurd? The quality of the evidence we'll be presenting may surprise you.
Join us for a one-day symposium that will provide a unique insight into how the ruling classes, from the Caesars of the past to the public relations firms working for governments and high finance today, have maintained power and an unending stealth class war by weaponising our own imagination against us. This is sure to engage not just students of religion and history, but also those interested in psychology, politics, and social justice.
In attendance will be our guest speakers Joseph Atwill and Kenneth Humphreys. We are also proud to feature the European première of the ground-breaking documentary "Caesar's Messiah" directed by Fritz Heede.
TICKETS: Advance price of £25. Door price is £35.

I was thinking of attending & taking notes, gauging the audience interactions since apparently, they want people to challenge him/his findings. Then I saw the price. So that's a no-go. Also, listening to that radio interview from the link provided by Bear was interesting. They gave no indication that the "absolute truth" was what they wanted to share with others. No mention of Carotta & by now they would surely have heard of him & his long-time works & findings, if they wanted to claim ignorance due to total focus on their own work. Just look at Laura's posts when she discovered the truth, she found others working on it & informed us whilst giving credit where it was due. Atwill & co. simply bypassed the info on Caesar as the model for this apex messiah we have.

The way they kept throwing in the word "psychopath" would probably convince those who have caught on to the trend (that's how they're trying to co-opt the word, counter articles saying "it's good to have those traits/they ain't all bad" etc) that these guys really know their stuff, not forgetting regular use of the name "Caesar" (they meant Flavius/Flavian) which might make most think of Julius Caesar & the original "bad man" stories. Those forum posts were something else too.

 

[Diane]

Been researched the C's info that Laura posted a few posts back. I kept coming up Irish, and green, and then trying to link it to Caesar and also America. Long story, I have a ton of notes to unravel. Hopefully I can do that this weekend, and post it here. But I ran the names I found in my notes through search, and found this book. I was running this morning with the name "fflur", Flora, Fleer, (Welsh word for flower).

Has anyone read "The British Chronicles" By David Hughes? I became fascinated with it, and I just purchased it. Not like me to spend that much on a book. The preview google gave left me off hanging on a cliff, and then allowed me to see a bit more info in later pages. So the teaser worked, but I'm sure I'll enjoy it very much.

Caesar had a daughter named Casair, (Kesair)? Who's mother was a Queen who committed suicide when Caesar ditched her because she had a daughter? My head is still spinning. Seems the bloodline went from Britain to Ireland...which would probably bring us to the states. I'm not certain how I can double check his, (David Hughes), findings with anything else out there. So I apologize in advance if the info is not considered truth. It could be a lead, or it could be nothing. Here's a link to the google preview. Hope it works.

Start at 59-56 BC...then it skips pages 71-72. The book mentions Casair again on page 74 on.

http://books.google.com/books?id=QnDtohOe8-QC&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&dq=fflur+celtic+caesar&source=bl&ots=NTHjVDzcLE&sig=yb46RvPXTgPq2MyufNkVCBa4Uec&hl=en&sa=X&ei=f01XUoGiOtKO7Aaw4IH4Cw&ved=0CGgQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=fflur%20celtic%20caesar&f=false

 

[Laura]

Diane, your first problem is reading sources of dubious value and believing whatever they tell you.

Since history as we know it pretty much began as an ancient Greek phenomenon, you might want to start with Greek and Roman Historians: Information and Misinformation by Michael Grant. Then, you will want to check his bibliography for further sources.

Next, you will want to read Homer's Odyssey and the Near East as it is the very oldest "history" we have. (By Bruce Louden).

Next, Berossus and Genesis, Manetho and Exodus: Hellenistic Histories and the Date of the Pentateuch by Russell Gmirkin

Read books about ancient histories written by expert critics before you read the histories themselves. You will learn very interesting things like who Nennius was using as a source and how much of the text has been glossed and interpolated. Same for Bede, Geoffry of Monmouth, etc. Same for the History of the Goths. I've discovered on my own that the History of the Franks MUST be a complete fraud because it has stolen a big chunk of material from the eastern empire chroniclers.

As Rome expanded its empire, new peoples that were taken into the empire got busy writing histories for themselves that brought them into line with Rome, the idea being to prove that they were "just as good" because there were very ancient connections or high civilization amongst them which didn't actually exist. Which reminds me of another excellent book: Caesar's Calendar: Ancient Time and the Beginnings of History by Denis Feeney.

Before Christianity, all the peoples were trying to match their timelines, their history, to that of Greece and Rome. The writers of the Bible were doing exactly that. Then, after Christianity had adopted the Hebrew Bible, all the histories were trying to find some connection between their peoples and the Jews.

It was all a game, a racket, a fraud, if you like. Bede and Nennius both borrowed heavily from Eusebius - a liar if ever there was one. The so-called "British histories" were very late productions except for Gildas who wrote in the 6th century.

You are just gonna have to dig deeper and wider if you ever expect to come to any bit of truth that can be extracted from the lies and deceptions propagated over our world.

 

[Don Genaro]

Just saw this article linked on Facebook _http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/story-of-jesus-christ-was-fabricated-to-pacify-the-poor-claims-controversial-biblical-scholar-8870879.html

It's getting plenty of attention alright. There's even a mention of our beloved Richard Dawkins who, it seems, continues to miss the point.
Well something interesting may come of it. I keep remembering the C's comment about Josephus being the "father" of Jesus...

 

[Breton]

Just an update on getting Carotta's book: Amazon uk came through finally and I received it today. It ended up costing 32.99 euros (free shipping).