Was Julius Caesar the real Jesus Christ?

[Chad]

CNN reported on 30th October that an ultra-rare coin, one of only three ever found and in near mint condition, celebrating Julius Caesar's assassination recently sold at an auction in London to an anonymous buyer for a record $3.5 million.

They write that the coin was issued by Brutus and was a "naked and shameless celebration" of the murder. It also features Brutus' portrait, the murder weapon and a 'liberty' cap.

I'm not sure how often these coins change hands but, if all the above is accurate, considering the situation on our planet and those currently in power right now, it seems to me to be pretty symbolic.

An ultra-rare coin celebrating Julius Caesar's assassination sells for a record $3.5 million​

Published 30th October 2020 Rare Julius Caesar assassination coin sold for record $3.5 million

Credit: Roma Numismatics Limited
Written by Harry Clarke-Ezzidio, CNNLondon

An ancient gold coin described as a "naked and shameless celebration" of the assassination of Julius Caesar, featuring a portrait of one of the men who killed him, has set a new record for a coin sold at auction.

Bought by an anonymous bidder for £2.7 million ($3.5 million), the "aureus" coin features a portrait of Marcus Junius Brutus -- one of the ringleaders in the assassination of Caesar in 44 BC.

Julius Caesar was killed by Brutus and several others at the Theater of Pompey in Rome. Credit: Charles Phelps Cushing/ClassicStock/Getty Images

It also depicts the daggers used by Brutus and his co-conspirator Cassius to slay the ancient general in the Theater of Pompey in Rome, and a cap of Liberty -- a symbolic garment given to slaves upon their freedom.

It is inscribed with the phrase "Eid Mar" -- the Ides of March -- a reference to March 15, the date of Caesar's death.
The coin was issued by Brutus two years after the assassination, in 42 BC.

"In an act of unparalleled braggadocio, we are at once presented with the murder weapons used to slay Caesar, the precise date of the deed, and the motive," Richard Beale, managing director of Roma Numismatics, the London auction house that sold the coin, wrote in a press release, describing the aureus as a "naked and shameless celebration" of the assassination.

Caesar's death is said to have been fueled by the belief among Roman politicians that he intended to make himself king.
Having been appointed "dictator perpetuo" -- dictator for life -- just two months earlier, Caesar was killed by a group of senators, including friends and people whom he had previously pardoned.

Brutus subsequently killed himself after losing the Battle of Philippi to Caesar's nephew and heir, Octavius, and friend Mark Antony.

Despite its age, the coin is in near-mint condition, and is one of only three known to exist.

The previous record price for a Roman coin was set in 2008, when a bronze sestertius of the Emperor Hadrian sold for around $2.5 million. The previous record for any coin was held by ancient Greek gold stater, which sold for $3.25 million in 2012.

The headline of this story was updated to match the USD conversion of the final sale price in the article text.

 

[mkrnhr]

The condition of the coin doesn't suggest an archaological find. It must be handed down through generations.
The only information I could find is

It is in near mint condition, with only a few of the dots surrounding the portrait on the obverse side worn down. It has been privately owned for centuries with documented provenance going back to the Swiss Baron Dominique de Chambrier in the 1700s.

 

[Rabelais]

Not much of esoteric value here, but some interesting history, re: coinage of antiquity, and the values placed on such artifacts today. Brutus commemorated himself, as it were.

“Foremost of the reasons for the exalted position of the type in the collective consciousness is its naked and shameless celebration of the murder of Julius Caesar two years earlier, in 44 B.C. This brutal and bloody assassination had been prompted by the well-founded belief among the Senate that Caesar intended to make himself king ...”

Roman coin authenticated in Sarasota area sets world record at auction

Ancient Roman coin makes history on the auction market in London

eu.heraldtribune.com

 

[Rabelais]

I have no idea how I posted this to the Religion thread. Moderators, please move it to my intended History thread, if possible.

Edit: Ah, now I see that it has already been moved to a thread where it has already been posted. Apologies. I thought this was current news.

 

[Rolae]

I was reading "The Dyskolos Meander"--translated with an introduction and notes by Carroll Moulton.
Just about over the past weekend.
Julius Caesar is mentioned in this book. I also thought this read was a good setting or intro into "Plato, The Last Days of Socrates"

 

[Nostradamus]

Hello,

I wanted to share a working hypothesis in relation to the primitive cult of Julius Caesar. Perhaps this connection has been suggested elsewhere on the forum but I have not seen it.

Among the main saints of Christianity, there is Saint Martin of Tours. It is said that he introduced monasticism in Gaul, first around the Loire. The figure of Saint Martin was the object of an important cult in Gaul from the early days of the monarchy. In France, 246 communes and 3700 French churches explicitly bear the name of Saint Martin. There is also Saint Martin of Braga in Galicia. The cult of Saint Martin was established throughout Western Europe, first in Italy and Gaul, then in Spain, Belgium and elsewhere, following the area of influence of the Carolingian Empire.

Beyond the importance of this Saint in Europe, and especially in France, I have noticed some interesting elements in the primitive model of this cult. Behind the various layers that coat the legend of Saint Martin, two main primitive elements have been preserved: Saint Martin was a Roman legionary, more precisely a "circitor", and he was a model of charity. He is usually depicted cutting his cloak in half to share it with a poor person. Martin is obviously related to Mars, the Roman god of war.

I therefore conclude that the cult of Saint Martin was initially a cult of Julius Caesar to which other Celtic and Gallic elements were quickly added. This is why several links have been established between the figure of Merlin and Martin for example. The Welsh Myrddin would have given the French "Martin". There are probably connections to be made with the legend of Arthur, the Holy Grail and the primitive cult of Saint Martin and Julius Caesar.

The main source seems to be Gregory of Tours and some claim that the first church or basilica dedicated to Saint Martin was built in the city of Tours. It is important to note that the city of Tours was called "Caesarodunum" during the High Empire, which means "fortified city dedicated to Caesar". It probably owes its name to Roman veterans who settled in the city after Caesar's death. We know the suspicious character of Gregory of Tours and he probably contributed to obscure the origin of this cult. St. Martin's birthplace in Pannonia was, I suppose, a way of linking him to the Franks who themselves claimed to have migrated from that region, but perhaps there is a deeper reason that I do not understand.

The most mysterious part of this story is the relic of this Saint, the cloak or coat of Saint Martin. This relic was from the first times of the Middle Ages a very venerated object in Gaul among the Merovingians and then the Carolingians (the city of Tours was the object of an important pilgrimage at that time). The sacred cloak of Saint Martin was preciously preserved, it was a kind of royal relic accompanying the Frankish king and it was guarded by clerics of his court, called chaplains after the monk Saint Gall. The origin of the chapel brings us back to the origins of the French monarchy. The word comes from the oratory of the palace of the king of the Franks, where a piece of the cloak of Saint Martin of Tours was kept. This place will take the name of this cloak, capella in Latin, then will become chapel in French and it is also the origin of the name of Aix-la-Chapelle, the capital of Charlemagne. In fact, from the 9th century onwards, it became part of everyday language to designate an independent place of worship that did not have the function of a church.

The cloak of Saint Martin seems to be closely linked to the foundations of the French monarchy, it also gave its name to Hugues Capet and to the dynasty of the Capetians. But what was the nature of this piece of cloth originally? I hypothesize that it belonged to Julius Caesar, perhaps the mantle of imperator, which also gives another perspective to the power of the "paludamentum" symbol among the following emperors. This relic seems to have been an important object in the fusion of the Gallo-Roman and Germanic elites, whose use can only be understood from a recentist perspective. Finally, this relic and the cult of Saint Martin made me think of that ancient tradition which makes France "the eldest daughter of the Church" and which must be linked, as Carotta has shown, to the primitive cult of Julius Caesar.

I hope that my translation into English is correct and sorry if this text is a bit long, I tried to be as synthetic as possible.

 

[Laura]

Well, that is a very interesting idea and I wonder if more data could be found to support it?

I'm pretty sure that Gregory of Tours' history was a big fraud for a lot of reasons, but maybe he let something slip through in his text accidentally? A close reading of that in the original language might be worthwhile. I can only read the English translation.

 

[Nostradamus]

Well, that is a very interesting idea and I wonder if more data could be found to support it?

I'm pretty sure that Gregory of Tours' history was a big fraud for a lot of reasons, but maybe he let something slip through in his text accidentally? A close reading of that in the original language might be worthwhile. I can only read the English translation.

There are two main sources: the Life of Saint Martin written by Sulpice Severus and the Seven Books of Miracles by Gregory of Tours, of which four books are dedicated to this saint. The originals are in Latin but like all the texts of that time we most probably have a version that has been reworked more than once.

In the French translations, I have unfortunately not identified any convincing elements to support this hypothesis. These texts are typical of the hagiographic tradition, Gregory of Tours relates a litany of miracles in a context of plague (the miracles take place inside the basilica that houses the tomb of Saint Martin). We can even assume that the actions of a bishop in this cataclysmic context were superimposed on the initial cult.

On the other hand, one is entitled to ask why Saint Martin was the patron saint of Gaul, without any comparison with the other martyrs, and why the city of Tours was a sacred place in Gaul at that time. And above all, why he became the patron saint of the Merovingians and then of the Carolingians, ahead of all the other saints. Contrary to what is sometimes said, the cult of Saint Martin did spread from Gaul to Italy and other countries neighboring Gaul, this is very clear in the toponymy and the number of churches dedicated to this saint.

Other Forum members may find other facts interesting.

 

[Human]

In the French translations, I have unfortunately not identified any convincing elements to support this hypothesis. These texts are typical of the hagiographic tradition, Gregory of Tours relates a litany of miracles in a context of plague (the miracles take place inside the basilica that houses the tomb of Saint Martin). We can even assume that the actions of a bishop in this cataclysmic context were superimposed on the initial cult.

As are few texts describing life and missionary work of St. Cyril and Methodius. Are there any mention of them in Western records of that time?

On the other hand, one is entitled to ask why Saint Martin was the patron saint of Gaul, without any comparison with the other martyrs, and why the city of Tours was a sacred place in Gaul at that time. And above all, why he became the patron saint of the Merovingians and then of the Carolingians, ahead of all the other saints. Contrary to what is sometimes said, the cult of Saint Martin did spread from Gaul to Italy and other countries neighboring Gaul, this is very clear in the toponymy and the number of churches dedicated to this saint.

From perspective of Slavic people at the time, this St. Martin resembles St. Cyril.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Just found out about this new book on Caesar:

Amazon.com

From the description, it sounds quite interesting:

Julius Caesar was no aspiring autocrat seeking to realize the imperial future but an unusually successful republican leader who was measured against the Republic's traditions and its greatest heroes of the past. Catastrophe befell Rome not because Caesar (or anyone else) turned against the Republic, its norms and institutions, but because Caesar's extraordinary success mobilized a determined opposition which ultimately preferred to precipitate civil war rather than accept its political defeat. Based on painstaking re-analysis of the ancient sources in the light of recent advances in our understanding of the participatory role of the People in the republican political system, a strong emphasis on agents' choices rather than structural causation, and profound scepticism toward the facile determinism that often substitutes for historical explanation, this book offers a radical reinterpretation of a figure of profound historical importance who stands at the turning point of Roman history from Republic to Empire.

 

[Laura]

Well, darn! Sounds terrific and I have to have it!

 

[happyliza]

It seems some timely and interestingly helpful info, for the culmination of the research on Caesar, may be coming our way?!

 

[Steph_rivers]

I thought I’d drop in here and ask this question since it’s under the topic of jesus (Caesar) : In an earlier transcript (I wish I knew how to save and quote transcripts ), it was mentioned that a Christ’s name was Jesinavara, it’s my conclusion (please correct me if I’m HORRIBLY WRONG..getting used to this whole “learning” thing) that this was one of the many Judaic Messiahs? Or maybe I need to back track and dig my
eyeballs into more texts here before I ask these questions

 

[Claus]

(I wish I knew how to save and quote transcripts )

You just mark what you want to quote, than there pops up the option to qoute or to reply, you select quote.
When you are in the wantet threat you go in the box to find the option to insert quotes, than you go on the button. Afterward you can put your own text. You also can first put your text in an than put in the quote.

 

[Steph_rivers]

You just mark what you want to quote, than there pops up the option to qoute or to reply, you select quote.
When you are in the wantet threat you go in the box to find the option to insert quotes, than you go on the button. Afterward you can put your own text. You also can first put your text in an than put in the quote.

Awesome! I didn't know they could be saved! lol.