What globe? Flat Earth and Flat-Earthers

[shellycheval]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

So why believe that what you have learned there are 20 or 50 years at school, were better? This seems to mean that 30 years ago, there were no lies in school and no adverse or brainwashing programs existed. Is not the school and the university that we schedule lies and illusion by alienating us? So what school was better before?

You are correct in saying that some lies were (and still are) being taught in schools, elementary through university, 20, 50 years ago, and have been as long as there have been schools, especially in the area of history. But what appears to have deteriorated is the ability and/or willingness of the school systems to teach "truths" as far as we know them in the basic sciences, geography, math, language skills, and critical thinking. Without knowledge of how to communicate accurately, how to compute basic math, and of how the physical world functions around you, one is unable to question and think critically regarding the constant propaganda and brainwashing we are bombarded with everyday. This dumbing down of curricula and sabotaging of teaching methods is accelerating and the effect is to cripple the ability of the person of average intelligence to make informed judgments and wise actions--hence Donald Trump leads the polls for the Republican nomination for President of the USA :O At least in past elections there was more of an effort to make the election process LOOK legitimate.

 

[Mal7]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

In this video which appeals to me, and a question I asked myself a month ago near a lake in the east of France (Lac du Der "The whoop" or revival of humanity). I could not understand why the reflection of the moon followed me as I walked. I imagined hundreds of people around the lake, and each sees the reflction of the moonlight. This means that at the same time the radius of the moon is in several areas! So why do not I see all around the lake lit, and I can see just my radius?

The flat lake surface is acting like a mirror. Because there is just one moon in the sky, what your eyes will see is one moon reflected in the lake. At the point in the lake where you see the moon, the angle from your eyes down to that spot will be the same as from that spot up towards the moon.

 

[paralleloscope]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

Laura

I never realized how poorly educated some of our forum members are. For example, asking why a plane doesn't fly off the earth? I can't believe that people don't know about and understand things about gravity, atmosphere, flight electronics, mechanics, geography, etc. I mean, so much of that sort of thing was taught to me in junior and senior high school physics, chemistry, geography classes that I'm just stunned at the ignorance.

Just astonished.

ADDED: I thought about this a bit more and I realize that the education system is designed to NOT educate people, but to make them drones. But I do think that if a person is reasonably aware of the world around them questions would NATURALLY come to their minds in all kinds of situations. In fact, I actually can remember asking some of these kinds of questions when I was just a kid. Things like "why don't people in Australia fall off the earth" and "why don't planes just fly away into space and never come back?" Fortunately, I was raised by an engineer and I was a great reader and was never shy about asking questions in school. Plus, the education system then still did a reasonable job.

I guess I'm just too accustomed to intelligence all around me and can't fathom a grown man asking "why don't planes just fly off into space" if that grown man is NOW a member of this forum and thereby signalling his interest in esoterica. Hell's bells! If you don't understand the real world around you in the most basic terms, what business have you in trying to explore deeper questions???

I just want to tell anybody who is taken in by this silliness to go away, go back to school, read some books, take some courses, and when you figure out the mechanical parts of reality, then you'll be in a position to ask questions about the underlying forces that make the mechanics go.

I think it is probably worse than you can imagine Laura.
It is an ancient cliché for teachers to complain that their incoming students get dumber as the years go by, but after teaching in the same 2 year/community college school system (MD USA) for over 23 years my observation is that it is true. Repeated observation of 1st year composition classes and discussion with colleagues who teach the same, shows that approximately half of the students in a freshman class right out of high school cannot identify the subject of a sentence --they just guess from the nouns they see until I agree with their choice. Last year I had a student in my Intro to Film class who wrote "Movies have been around for thousands of years." That kind of ignorance is breathtaking! Where do you start? Many students have no idea that technology like electricity, telephones, radio, electric lights etc., have only been in common usage for about 100 years or less in many areas.

Many adults I've met can't tell a bluebird from a blue jay or an oak tree from a maple. I am afraid to take a poll asking if the earth revolves around the sun or vice versa! I could go on, but it is too depressing.
Of course in every class there are a few students who are fairly well educated--at least in some areas, but the majority are abysmally ignorant of the most basic knowledge of how they and the universe they live in function. The very worst thing I see is how willful ignorance has become the norm. The overall lack of desire to ask questions, to learn and to know is shocking--a deadly complacency is the norm.

When you do the comparison of what comprised an 8th grade education in the USA around 1900 with today, and with what students measurably know, it seems clear that the education system has been co-opted to create mindless rule followers--throw in the influences of a toxic physical and medical environment, ponerazation, increasing poverty, mass media indoctrination, and it seem that the zombie apocalypse takeover is here--"they are us." IMHO, all we can do is continue to shine the light of knowledge and awareness in our classrooms and conversations and here for the minority who want to hear and are seeking answers. Many thanks to all of you who keep SOTT and the Forum up and running. The rest of us can help by remembering to donate so what little light that remains in the world can continue to shine.
shellycheval

PS Interesting idea about sphericality as a test for OPs! Wonder how that would work on high-functioning psychopaths?

I have not been much in school, but thought comes to mind. You seem to say that students are becoming more stupid, and that the school or university are met over its role. However, "you say," that the school and the government (the elite STS) lie to us for centuries. So why believe that what you have learned there are 20 or 50 years at school, were better? This seems to mean that 30 years ago, there were no lies in school and no adverse or brainwashing programs existed. Is not the school and the university that we schedule lies and illusion by alienating us? So what school was better before? Today the Internet is a tool against small-power system, people should be more educated. The intelligence does not preserve the beliefs and illusions ...
Sometimes I feel I meet elites everywhere. In space, in school, in society, in finance, in pride and in forums.

According to John Taylor Gatto, it was with the introduction of obligatory schooling in the early 20th century that the decline started happening. Earlier school forms were for those who could afford it and/ or church schools and supposedly thought some form of trivium based education, where grammar, logic and rhetoric were a means to be able to think; knowing the elements that make up a subject (the grammar of it), being able to string right comprehension about the elements together (logic), and the means to present ones findings in an appealing way (rhetoric).

The school system we know on a global scale in the 20th century, derives from late 19th century Prussia's Volkschule, where they apparently were trying to make more compliant and non-thinking students/ soldiers / citizens. These state based schools were then exported around the world by various elites who could see the potential of controlling the unruly masses to use the markets and work the factories, with less of an intellectual challenge to power. The school planners supposedly learned a great deal from the behaviourists along the way; separating collaborative multi topical classrooms into subject based classes divided by a bell, taking interdisciplinary and topical coherence out of the picture. As well as making them independent on authorities to think and feel.

Regarding the internet:

A: We once told you that your computers would overpower you. Thus neither question is precisely to the point. Internet was initially manifested for practical purposes, then other applications were developed. It could be said that the "experiment" in consciousness appeared in reaction to more positive uses. At present the internet is more a source of confusion and propaganda than anything else.

Only in small ways is the internet a tool against power, in ways they don't see matter, but what does matter to them is that the net has become the new public school of disinformation, where the peoples atrophied minds from regular schooling are ripe for the picking on the internet.

 

[mkrnhr]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

I think it's too easy to blame the educational system for everything. Yes there is a deliberate dumbing down, but it's not all black and white. You can learn some basic verifiable stuff, and correct the stuff later. For example. in school we learn math and chemistry, some biology, but also that the universe is only made out of matter (or in other countries that there is a vengeful god watching you 24/24 and taking notes). Rejecting everything because there are lies is idiotic. However, the problem is also cultural. People just don't want to know. They prefer to imagine they know something everybody else doesn't know, even if it's nonsense, in order to appear smarter and special.

 

[Chu]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

I think it's too easy to blame the educational system for everything. Yes there is a deliberate dumbing down, but it's not all black and white. You can learn some basic verifiable stuff, and correct the stuff later. For example. in school we learn math and chemistry, some biology, but also that the universe is only made out of matter (or in other countries that there is a vengeful god watching you 24/24 and taking notes). Rejecting everything because there are lies is idiotic. However, the problem is also cultural. People just don't want to know. They prefer to imagine they know something everybody else doesn't know, even if it's nonsense, in order to appear smarter and special.

...Dunning-Kruger effect.

I agree with mkrnhr. Even more than the level of education, I think there is also just plain common sense that some people seem to have lost, or to lose when faced with some theory like this. No regard for essential variables in this "explanations", for simple observations that don't require a PhD, such as scale, distances, gravity, etc. Anything that doesn't fit gets ignored, and for the rest you need some creativity or complete lack of common sense in order to believe it. Yet, there is something in these types of discoveries that make some people feel "special", yes.

Th same thing could be said about the chemtrail followers. No matter how many times you explain to them that a plane spraying stuff from such a high distance would be highly ineffective, they respond with "you don't know anything, the government is behind it!". It's like they have an impairment regarding distances and time perception. We know the government hides a lot of things, sure, but some theories are just....

 

[Seaniebawn]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

But then I recalled when my father told me, when he was flying to Sidney from Warsaw, they stopped twice - in Moscow, then in Bejing. It was very strange to me back then, because it didn't make sense - it was very far from shortest way. When I looked on this route on "flat earth" map, these two capitals were on straight line between Warsaw and Sydney. I flew once from Frankfurt to Boston, and was flying directly over London - it is also on the straight route on flat earth map, and round route on sphere... Very strange indeed.
How we could solve the problem?

No, it wasn't. But to understand it, you need to understand how "flat maps" are being made. There are different types of map projections and each type distorts distances (always) and shapes or areas on the sphere. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_projection

Do you have a globe at hand? If you don't, you can check the website that draws big circles between two locations, a big circle being the shortest way from one point on a sphere to another one. I picked Warsaw and Sydney airports for you (link below). You can see that in this particular case the big circle goes pretty close to Moscow and Beijing, and definitely not through Turkey and Iran as one would think from looking at a flat map. And the diversion to have mid landings in those two capitals is not that big at all.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=WAW+-+SYD

Hope it helps. :)

andi a member of the forum posted these group of videos a while back and A walk through mathematics[Dimensions/VIDEO-ANIMATION]
the first video deal's with creating maps and projection of a 3D object onto a 2D plane and then moves up the dimensions by projecting 4D object's into 3D space and I thought they were very good for getting a visual feel for the math
original post by andi
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,18525.0.html

Link to the first video, it's probably worth watching the whole series
https://www.youtube.com/embed/6cpTEPT5i0A?list=PL3C690048E1531DC7

--
MOD edit and note:
You don't need to, nor should you, deactivate links to this very forum. Underscoring is used for certain or suspected disinfo websites.

 

[JEEP]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

So, an indication of an Organic Portal could be the inability to grasp firm scientific concepts such as the earth is a sphere & not flat. Now that's interesting!

I have to think that the PTB negative operatives are pushing the animalistic agenda in that we are continuously being subjected to themes that play into that mindset such as all the zombie TV shows/games & emphasis on sex crimes/sex deviance/sexualization of children - and let's not forget the pervasiveness of porn! And, more & more people are catching on to the proliferation of FEAR porn. Opening this weekend - the new Owen Wilson film No Escape > "In their new overseas home, an American family soon finds themselves caught in the middle of a coup, and they frantically look for a safe escape in an environment where foreigners are being immediately executed."

In a world where a Palmyra Archaeology Researcher has just been beheaded by ISIS, why would one pay money to see a film like No Escape?!

Is it because there are too many Kellie Picklers manifesting in our present - the ultimate dumb blond who thought Europe was a country & France wasn't?! She came to prominence via American Idol in which Simon Cowell called her a little minx - to which she let the whole world know she had no idea what a minx was. And she is not the exception as a recent youtube profiled on July 4th just how many people had no clue about our Bill of Rights - filmed at a California beach:

Americans Don't Know WHY We Celebrate the 4th of July or WHAT COUNTRY We Declared Independence From!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRkFDcX_72c

I've previously read that a man became aware of the dumbing down of the American educational system & wrote a book about it, detailing the process. Unfortunately, I don't have his name or the book. Plenty of people see this as the enacting of one of the Protocols of Zion.

I know I've given up having any kind of rational discourse re our reality & what's going down to those I come into contact with - most are too wrapped up in their religious beliefs & that God/Jesus will ultimately save them/world as per the End Times scenario. (Sigh).

One more thought - America as a whole has been fluoridated continuously for decades. How much is that contributing to the inability to think critically/logically?

Correction - I was thinking of another recent video re Bill of Rights & not the one posted re independence from Mexico (Ha!) on July 4th & signed by Jessie Ventura!

 

[Peam]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

[quote author=Oxajil]
One of the flat earthers, Eric Dubay, claims that "the Sun, Moon, stars and "planets" are all merely luminaries, round discs of celestial light, NOT spherical terra firma capable of landing on as the Freemasons at NASA would have you believe."

If the Sun, Moon, stars and "planets" were all round discs of light presumably all like their flat earth belief, how do they explain why they are all facing earth and none of them can be viewed edge on?

 

[Kisito]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

So, an indication of an Organic Portal could be the inability to grasp firm scientific concepts such as the earth is a sphere & not flat. Now that's interesting!

This is according to me, more an idea linked to strong emotions, not based on reason .. It's like saying that those who have an IQ less than 120 or don't understand quantum concepts are PO and they can't go to the 4 D STS!

 

[JEEP]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

We interrupt this serious discussion for a few moments of levity:

Jay Leno Astronomy Quiz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOw8aiyMUAU

And there are dozens of these type videos showcasing the absymal ignorance of the general population. I guess the dumbing down process is all but complete.

 

[Laura]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

So, an indication of an Organic Portal could be the inability to grasp firm scientific concepts such as the earth is a sphere & not flat. Now that's interesting!

That's not what I said. I was specific about spatial/time concepts/abstractions. There are many scientific concepts that I imagine OPs can and do grasp.

 

[BuAnn]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

I spent the last 2 1/2 hours reading this thread in its entirety. I look forward to viewing the YouTube channels listed for further understanding of physics.

The flat earth notion only came into my mind about 4 days ago after reading a comment on Sott.net alluding to the notion that Sott.net was not aware of the reality that the earth is flat. It was presented in a cheeky way and was commentary for an article addressing something about the moon. I have attempted to find the article and retrieve the exact comment but I have not located as of yet.

In reading the comment I felt strange. In retrospect I can say it was dissonance. I immediately went to YouTube and typed in flat earth. To my surprise there were so many videos and most of them had been published within this year. I begin to watch video after video. After about three days of that activity my mind was mush. Everything that I had come to understand about the earth, the solar system and galaxy was being slapped around by ideas that had never wondered into my thoughts. It was in those moments I recalled information shared and given by this forum. I remembered explanations of existence, the seven dimensions, the wave, 4dSTS, and so much more. It truly was of matter of having knowledge to protect.

I found myself asking why am I even watching this stuff and at other times wondering if the wool had been pulled over my eyes all my life. To the first question I realized that the videos contained bits of information that I found interesting. I did not know that Antarctic was off limits to most Humans or that Hitler made a voyage there. Heck I hadn't had any thoughts about Antarctica except for the stuff in the news concerning climate change. For the second question, well yes the wool has been over my eyes, but for the last 8 years of my life I have been following Sott, this forum, recommended text, videos and doing a lot of work on myself mentally and physically.

I am thankful even more for this forum after the experience over the last few days. Without the internal work I know my mind would have been made into mush and my focus completely lost. I can say that I am aware enough about gravity, centripetal force, jet streams, eclipses, motion and planets to the point that I have explained it to others. I have loved science since a child.

For me this flat earth experience dusted off cob webs of information that I have not been reviewing (mostly pertaining to self growth), oiled the wheels of critical thought (something I had become lazy about, for there are not many around me physically to sharpen iron against iron), and it revived the fact that knowledge protects.

From the hours of video I watched, I was reminded that there is a discipline in myself (I made time and gave energy/attention to something that did not concern the worries that have been on my mind) that needs to be continually exercised. The current state of affairs has had me stressed about so much in my personal life, going through small bouts of depression and entertaining activities and ideas that I now see made myself vulnerable to this flat earth notion. I sympathize with those who are caught up in the flat earth notion. My problem was not that I do not know, mine was that the ability to discern has weakened and I am charging myself with the responsibility of staying aware. Learning is fun. However in these times when one is surrounded by psychopaths, sociopaths and authoritarian follows with very few income opportunities and no family, children or loved ones it wears on the mind. And the flat earth notion truly was an escape. Although it was only for a few days. The epitome of the experience was being that mirror that shot back a reflection of all the nonsense I have been letting seep in the past year of my life.

I tell myself, I have to stay strong, no matter how tough it gets. Now I know strength is only a piece for sustaining ones self in these interesting times. Knowledge, discernment, discipline and balance are all needed.

I can't say I ever believed it, but the thought that I may be living a literal petri dish designed by the 4d STS gave me permission to say the heck with it, I am trapped anyways, why fight, there's no way out. I completely had no thoughts about STO and how all things are connected. And I totally was not thinking of learning being fun or that knowledge is amazing, healing and awesome. Which only increased my bouts of depression. If this disinformation agenda about the earth being flat serves a purpose, I strongly think that that is its goal: to rob weakened critical thinkers of their knowledge and imagination.

Thank you all for your contribution to this thread. Your comments were helpful. Real people having real reactions.

 

[JEEP]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

"That's not what I said. I was specific about spatial/time concepts/abstractions. There are many scientific concepts that I imagine OPs can and do grasp." - Laura

OK - thanks for that clarification. Best to oust a misconception asap & not let it further cloud one's understanding of knowledge presented.

 

[1984]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

"That's not what I said. I was specific about spatial/time concepts/abstractions. There are many scientific concepts that I imagine OPs can and do grasp." - Laura

OK - thanks for that clarification. Best to oust a misconception asap & not let it further cloud one's understanding of knowledge presented.

JEEP, please use the Quote function when replying. It's not only practicing external consideration to other readers when they are trying to follow what you're replying to, it is an easier 'read' on the eyes.

If you need some help, just ask.

 

[cubbex]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

I think it's too easy to blame the educational system for everything. Yes there is a deliberate dumbing down, but it's not all black and white. You can learn some basic verifiable stuff, and correct the stuff later. For example. in school we learn math and chemistry, some biology, but also that the universe is only made out of matter (or in other countries that there is a vengeful god watching you 24/24 and taking notes). Rejecting everything because there are lies is idiotic. However, the problem is also cultural. People just don't want to know. They prefer to imagine they know something everybody else doesn't know, even if it's nonsense, in order to appear smarter and special.

I like this argument. In my mind based on my studies and aim I became aware that no matter how big your guns are, how advanced your educational system is, or how much effort you put on a person. The free will of that person will reign supreme no matter what, the horrible part of this is that this could go agains the benefit of the invidividual. We assume our wills work in our favor every time, but... well, it does serve our preference or our pleasure, but not always our convenience. Lot of people have a hard time understanding that. This validates the idea of STO honoring free will, because you save yourself a lot of time and energy.

Another thought that has come out of our discussions here. And those discussions aren't about whether or not the earth is flat, but the most curious phenomenon that human beings can think this and other human beings can be so easily persuaded of it. It's a serious weakness in a network that is striving for colinearity.

Anyway, this thought just mentioned is: what if those people who simply can't grok the various principles being explicated to them about curvature, gravity, atmospheric lensing, etc etc (all that which is involved in a spherical earth), have this problem because they are Organic Portals? There's a whole chapter in The Wave about the perception of animals - dogs and horses in particular - leading to a discussion of how understanding 2nd to 3rd density perceptions can be used as something of a foundation for speculating about 3rd to 4th density perceptions. So, what if Organic Portals are 2nd density beings that have "graduated" to the "entry level" of 3rd density and are not yet able to parse it, to be conversant with it, to maneuver in it, to feel comfortable with it? What if 3 D sphericality is sort of a "bridge too far" for the Organic Portal? What if we have stumbled on a sort of "test"???

Well it is possible. Because why the idea of portal? I mean, are they like wormholes for some densities? sometimes thought of the OP as just beings who shorten the wave cycle of 2th density beings, through direct interaction mentioned in the cs sessions. Which include either making of 2th density their pets or by cruelty and harm, this way animals evolve outside of the marked parameters of nature, a lion adapts to a human which is less predictable to the creatures in its environment. So my point is, that OP are used for this purpose, but I also think OP based on more cs mentions, lack the creativity of souled beings, this explains why some humans are lazy as hell intellectually speaking. They learn things as memorizing it, not for the need to know, but because they need to do something with it, so they just want to know the how instead the why. And that these beings have been succesful because they lack the creative process a person has to evolve technology or science. But that is a wild guess. These beings could nto survive for a long time without the help of souled individuals, who observe and use creativity to keep the progress going on. These beings might only want to live in comfort, eat, reproduce, drink beers, etc. Like an animal with a human brain, but that might just be part of their constitution not that they were animals who graduated recently.