What globe? Flat Earth and Flat-Earthers

[MusicMan]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

...if the earth is a globe, when aeroplanes fly in a straight line, why don't they fly off the globe?

How would an airplane even know it was flying in a "straight line?" Altimeter readings? If the earth is a globe and the airplane maintained a consistent height from the ground for miles and miles, then the airplane would simply follow the curvature of the earth. If the earth was flat, the line would be 'straight', if it is curved, the line would be curved. Either way the airplane is ignorant, I think, and not likely to fly off anything.

Still curious?

Ah, I see, as long as it maintained a consistent height from the ground then there is no risk of flying off the globe. Makes sense! Lol

But what would happen if it flew in a straight line, not upwards like a rocket but across the surface, not following the curvature... would it fly off the globe? :D

The craft would have a small matter called 'escape velocity' to address.
Unless this velocity could be reached (as in a rocket) then the craft could never achieve even orbit, which in itself is still not a straight line or tangent to the Earth's surface.

 

[Laura]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

Since there is no point in talking about photographs of earth from space because the flat earth cult will declare that they are faked, let me collect a few things here:

One of the oldest proofs of the Earth's shape, however, can be seen from the ground and occurs during every lunar eclipse. The geometry of a lunar eclipse has been known since ancient Greece. When a full Moon occurs in the plane of Earth's orbit, the Moon slowly moves through Earth's shadow. Every time that shadow is seen, its edge is round. Once again, the only solid that always projects a round shadow is a sphere. http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae535.cfm

1. Shadows differ from place to place

Flat earth Curved earth

Eratosthenes carried out this experiment to determine the circumference of the Earth, already assuming its spherical shape; incidentally, the proof of such being consequential of the procedure.

However, a demonstration can be achieved by a simple, local experiment (as opposed to having a party venture to a distant enough point):

Take a piece of card (A3, or so), attach two obelisks to the card by their bases and, with a light source, produce shadows - now, slowly bend the card so that it becomes convex (that is, the side with obelisks attached bulging out) and watch the effect. http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/26427/what-is-the-simplest-way-to-prove-the-earth-is-round

Read this:

Top 10 Ways to Know the Earth is Not Flat
http://www.smarterthanthat.com/astronomy/top-10-ways-to-know-the-earth-is-not-flat/

This last one includes Ark's idea about how to prove the earth is round with a pendulum and gravity. Scroll down, it's number 9.

Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_W280R_Jt8

Finally, if the earth was flat, you should be able to set a telescope up on the New York shore of the Atlantic and see the coast of France.

 

[Seaniebawn]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

There is a theory that the Flat Earth Society is actually COINTELPRO with the aims of attracting alternative thinkers who do not believe the official NASA narrative, leading them to believe in something so outragous, so that in future times of unrest the PTB can basically say "Look! These people are stupid! They still believe the earth is flat!" thereby discrediting everything else that these alternative thinkers say or do.

That's the way I see it keyhole, the premise to me is absolutely ridiculous

 

[Konstantin]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

I cant even believe that this theme is opened. There are many ways to determine if the Earth is flat or round as we can see it this thread. You can simply attach a camera to a hot gas balloon and record earth from a high altitude . With all this technology today its not questionable that the earth is round.
Instead wasting the time in discussion if the Earth is round or flat , its better to put energy in more important discussions and themes.
Sorry, but for me the Earth is flat , based on many evidences that exists today.
:)

 

[Keyhole]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

Sorry, but for me the Earth is flat , based on many evidences that exists today.
:)

Do you mean round?

 

[Laura]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

Following on to the last two comments, I, too, am literally staggered that this issue even comes up, not just HERE, of all places, but in the world at large. To me, it is evidence of a highly hystericized society that is so wounded by the pathology of leaders that they will clutch at anything persuasive. As I mentioned already, I see the evidence of the effects of the schizoidal psychopaths and their style of communication.

Let's look at the description of the schizoidal type and its effect on other people and I'll put in bold a couple of things that stand out in this context:

Carriers of this anomaly are hypersensitive and distrustful, but they pay little attention to the feelings of others, tend to assume extreme positions, and are eager to retaliate for minor offenses. Sometimes they are eccentric and odd. Their poor sense of psychological situation and reality leads them to superimpose erroneous, pejorative interpretations upon other people’s intentions. They easy become involved in activities which are ostensibly moral, but which actually inflict damage upon themselves and others. Their impoverished psychological worldview makes them typically pessimistic regarding human nature. We frequently find expressions of their characteristic attitudes in their statements and writings: “Human nature is so bad that order in human society can only be maintained by a strong power created by highly qualified individuals in the name of some higher idea.” Let us call this typical expression the “schizoid declaration”. ....

{I would suggest that the inability of the schizoid to pay attention to others, their poor sense of psychological situation and reality, their tendency to superimpose pejorative interpretations on things, and their impoverished world view in general, can easily manifest in exactly what we see in religious fanatics of all stripes, and the "flat earth" ideas which are simply the same qualities taken vis a vis an evaluation of HARD REALITY itself.}

The common factor in the varieties of this anomaly is a dull pallor of emotions and a feeling for the psychological realities of this essential factor in basic intelligence. This can be attributed to the incomplete quality of the instinctive substratum, which is working as though on sand. Low emotional pressure enables them to develop proper speculative reasoning, which is useful in non-humanistic spheres of activity. Because of their one-sidedness, they tend to consider themselves intellectually superior to “ordinary” people. ....

{Here it is suggested that the impoverished world view in terms of psychology and "situations/theory of mind" has a profound effect on their intelligence. They certainly THINK they are smarter than everyone else and this confidence has a magnetic effect on people who are not entirely sure of themselves or who have been hystericized by a pathological reality.}

A schizoid’s ponerological activity should be evaluated in two aspects. On the small scale, such people cause their families trouble, easily turn into tools of intrigue in the hands of clever individuals, and generally do a poor job of raising the younger generation. Their tendency to see human reality in the doctrinaire and simplistic manner they consider “proper”, transforms their frequently good intentions into bad results. However, their ponerogenic role can take on macro-social proportions if their attitude toward human reality and their tendency to invent great doctrines are put to paper and duplicated in large editions.

{Above we note that they have a tendency to see reality in a doctrinaire and simplistic manner, i.e. black and white thinking. A "doctrinaire" type of thinking is that which seeks to impose a doctrine in all circumstances without regard to practical considerations. And a doctrine, of course, is a set of beliefs. Again, this relates back to their failures to be able to accurately "read" reality and sort phenomena with the nuances that reality actually requires. They believe that it MUST be simple because they, themselves, are not capable of the subtleties of mind that are the property of higher intelligences.}

In this next part, we come to the effects that Schizoidal psychopaths have on other people:

In spite of their typical deficits, or even an openly schizoidal declaration, their readers do not realize what the authors’ characters are like; they interpret such works in a manner corresponding to their own nature. The minds of normal people tend toward corrective interpretation thanks to the participation of their own richer, psychological world view.

{...}

During ... times which are ... marked by injury to individuals and nations, doctrinaire people believe they have found a simple solution to fix such a world. Such a historical period is always characterized by an impoverished psychological world view, a schizoidally impoverished psychological world view thus does not stand out during such times and is accepted as legal tender. These doctrinaire individuals characteristically manifest a certain contempt with regard to moralists then preaching the need to rediscover lost human values and to develop a richer, more appropriate psychological world view.

{What we are doing here, on this forum, in our work, is seeking to develop that richer world view, battling the black and white thinking that a hystericized society is heir to, and which makes it vulnerable to conquest and destruction.}

Schizoid characters aim to impose their own conceptual world upon other people or social groups, using relatively controlled pathological egotism and the exceptional tenacity derived from their persistent nature. They are thus eventually able to overpower another individual’s personality, which causes the latter’s behavior to turn desperately illogical. They may also exert a similar influence upon the group of people they have joined. They are psychological loners who feel better in some human organization, wherein they become zealots for some ideology, religious bigots, materialists, or adherents of an ideology with satanic features. If their activities consist of direct contact on a small social scale, their acquaintances easily perceive them to be eccentric, which limits their ponerogenic role. However, if they manage to hide their own personality behind the written word, their influence may poison the minds of society in a wide scale and for a long time.... with the shoddy ingredients of a schizoidal apprehension of reality.

{...}

In spite of the fact that the writings of schizoidal authors contain the above described deficiency, or even an openly formulated schizoidal declaration which constitutes sufficient warning to specialists, the average reader accepts them not as a view of reality warped by this anomaly, but rather as an idea to which he should assume an attitude based on his convictions and his reason. That is the first mistake. The oversimplified pattern, devoid of psychological color and based on easily available data, exerts an intense influence upon individuals who are insufficiently critical, frequently frustrated as result of downward social adjustment, culturally neglected, or characterized by some psychological deficiencies.

Others are provoked to criticism based on their healthy common sense, also they fail to grasp this essential cause of the error.

Societal interpretation of such activities is broken down into the main trifurcations, engendering divisiveness and conflict. The first branch is the path of aversion, based on rejection of the contents of the work due to personal motivations, differing convictions, or moral revulsion. This already contains the component of a moralizing interpretation of pathological phenomena.

We can distinguish two distinctly different apperception types among those persons who accept the contents of such works: the critically-corrective and the pathological.

People whose feel for psychological reality is normal tend to incorporate chiefly the more valuable elements of the work. They trivialize the obvious errors and complement the schizoid deficiencies by means of their own richer world view. This gives rise to a more sensible, measured, and thus creative interpretation, but is not free from the influence of the error frequently adduced above.

Pathological acceptance is manifested by individuals with diversiform deviations, whether inherited or acquired, as well as by many people bearing personality malformations or who have been injured by social injustice. That explains why this scope is wider than the circle drawn by direct action of pathological factors. This apperception often brutalizes the authors’ concepts and leads to acceptance of forceful methods and revolutionary means.

 

[Niall]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

Interesting that this thread has popped up now as I have searched this forum for any information on Flat Earth theory and basically found nothing. For the past few months my mum has been attempting to convert me and others to to the belief that the earth is flat. This has resulted in endless heated discussions which are usually finished with me being accused of having a closed-mind and brainwashed by society and science. I can first-handedly say that this Flat Earth thing is very cult like. From what I can see it encourages its followers to disregard modern-day scientific knowledge in favour of blind belief, much like religion.

The arguements are mostly illogical and attempt to prove points by disproving other points, which doesn't work. For instance: "NASA lied about this, therefore all astrophysics is a lie". Completely throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

There is a theory that the Flat Earth Society is actually COINTELPRO with the aims of attracting alternative thinkers who do not believe the official NASA narrative, leading them to believe in something so outragous, so that in future times of unrest the PTB can basically say "Look! These people are stupid! They still believe the earth is flat!" thereby discrediting everything else that these alternative thinkers say or do.

Well said. This is a 'sign of the times' (people generally becoming unhinged), probably with the assistance of COINTELPRO. Just as 'HOAX!' theorists have derailed justified skepticism regarding the War on Terror - specifically, the evidence for Western states being behind terror attacks and terrorists - 'Flat Earth' is another variant on the theme of "It's all a stage with crisis actors!" In this case, its believers are LITERALLY suggesting that the world is a stage. Like 'chemtrails', 'HAARP geoengineering', and 'remotely-controlled comets', Flat Earth invites people who sense or see that something is amiss in the broader environment to invent or seek explanations that won't terrify them so much.

Regarding 'questioning everything', it's good to arrive at the point where your previous worldview breaks down and you face fundamental assumptions about what you know, or thought you knew. But it's also crucial to do this and then move on from it by reintegrating into the world as it is. You do this by accepting that even if you can never know for certain how or why something is the way it is, IT JUST IS, so work within the confines you find yourself in. If you get stuck in obsessing over whether or not the sky is really blue, you wind up closing your mind, not opening it up, and missing the rich (and important, assuming you're interested in progress) life lessons this 3D world offers you.

 

[Konstantin]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

Sorry, but for me the Earth is flat , based on many evidences that exists today.
:)

Do you mean round?

I mean round. Thank you for correcting me

:D

 

[Scottie]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

Loved the female astronaut strange hair pics and such.

That's what my hair looks like when I need a haircut! Clearly, this is proof that nature loves spheres.

There are a few things I want to mention here.

First, I think this thread has been highly educational in many ways. For example, why do planes take the flight paths they do? Why doesn't a plane fly off the surface of the Earth?

For me, these are questions I asked long ago, and I couldn't rest until I found the answers. That's just how I am as a particular engineer type. If I see a new machine, and I don't know how it works, I MUST find out. The same is true of how I work, how other people work, how reality works, etc. I'm like Curious George on speed. ;D

I think many of us are curious in this way, to one extent or another, or we wouldn't be here. And we each have strengths and weaknesses in different areas. Technical stuff is my strong point, so that explains that. In the end, curiosity is a good thing.

What's not such a good thing is the desire to believe something, or actually believing something, that clearly isn't true and/or that doesn't have a tangible benefit.

Well, what is "clearly true"? That's a sticky question.

For example: What color is the sky on a sunny day?

Well, it's blue. Blue is a color, but actually, the human perception of color isn't even "real". It's exactly that: a perception. Certain colors don't exist for dogs though, because their eyes work differently. Then there is the color temperature of light bulbs. Our perception of different colors doesn't necessarily coincide with the physical characteristics of the color. An object isn't blue because it emits "blueness", but rather because the object absorbs wavelengths of light that are not "blueish", and reflects wavelengths that ARE "blueish". It's all a bit weird when you think about it. And then, due to physical differences in hardware, different people see different colors. And that's just looking at something and saying what color it is!

Nevertheless, if you ask me what color the sky is on a sunny day, I'm going to say: Blue!

Darn near everything we think we know is "iffy" at best. Still, we make certain observations, conduct certain tests, and we come to a joint conclusion that the sky is blue, planetary bodies are spherical, etc. Sometimes this helps us all, and sometimes it hinders us.

None of this consensus negates the fact that if we want to, we can get into details that make our eyes cross, or that we can even get all philosophical.

We are told that physical reality - atoms and such - is mostly empty space. How cool is that? Does that mean nothing exists? Should we start an Empty Space movement?

Frankly, I don't think that the people being blown to bits by cluster bombs give a damn that both they and the bombs are all just empty space. There is a certain kind of "real reality" to our un/reality. Yes, how things work is important, but a much more important question is why?

Right now, things are getting "interesting". We've got economic mayhem either here or coming, crazy weather, countries being torn apart by greedy psycho bastards, mass migration as a result, an Arab genocide under way, and so on. We also have the idea that maybe - just maybe - reality is going to get a lot more interesting... Here I'm thinking of the idea of Splitting Realities, of making different choices, and of the effects that enough conscious and aware people may have on both our collective and individual futures. I love theory, but this is all very practical, very down to earth, and it effects every single one of us whether we like it or not.

Now, you could very easily question the idea of splitting realities. That would be a smart thing to do. I tend to accept and consider it more because, having experienced its effects on several occasions, it's difficult to ignore. When one person says, "I clearly remember a purple cow", and you say, "I clearly remember a pink ostrich", and you know for a fact that neither of you are schizophrenic or something, well... one tends to sit up and take very careful notice! While human memory is a weird things sometimes, in these cases there are always other factors involved that clearly indicate that it's not just a difference in memory.

If you think carefully about the implications of the purple cow vs. the pink ostrich, the implications are staggering... Who's right? Who's wrong? But most importantly: WHY?

Anyway, it's not surprising that there are movements underway. These movements, IMO, are designed to get us to expend energy in all the wrong directions. They are designed to get us to focus so much on the "how" that we forget that what is important is the "why".

In short, it's a choice. It's good to discuss things openly, and consider various possibilities. We really do need to be open to everything. At the same time, we only have limited amounts of time and energy from a practical point of view.

So, what's the most important thing? Cuz from where I sit, whether the earth is flat or round has absolutely zero impact on the very real human events occurring on this planet right now - or on the stuff that seems to be coming around the bend.

 

[Laura]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

Well said. This is a 'sign of the times' (people generally becoming unhinged), probably with the assistance of COINTELPRO. Just as 'HOAX!' theorists have derailed justified skepticism regarding the War on Terror - specifically, the evidence for Western states being behind terror attacks and terrorists - 'Flat Earth' is another variant on the theme of "It's all a stage with crisis actors!" In this case, its believers are LITERALLY suggesting that the world is a stage. Like 'chemtrails', 'HAARP geoengineering', and 'remotely-controlled comets', Flat Earth invites people who sense or see that something is amiss in the broader environment to invent or seek explanations that won't terrify them so much.

Exactly. So, when someone comes along with something like this Flat Earth business, where so many people are brought up poorly educated (setting aside intellectual capacity which can also be a factor), and in positions in life where they can never have an opportunity to engage in any activity that can PROVE to them that the earth is round (like going up in a balloon, or in a spaceship, or having close family members or friends who can, have and do such things), or people who have poor spatial cognizance (and that can be manifested also in poor social skills), and when people are utterly hystericized by the "terror of the situation", there is no wonder that people are susceptible to this kind of intellectual sleight of hand.

This is exactly what we see described by Lobaczewski:

The oversimplified pattern, devoid of psychological color and based on easily available data, exerts an intense influence upon individuals who are insufficiently critical, frequently frustrated as result of downward social adjustment, culturally neglected, or characterized by some psychological deficiencies.

 

[Laura]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

There was a guy on FB who kept bombarding me with "flat earth" stuff to the point that I finally blocked him. Among the "proofs" he sent me was a video from the space station of earth very similar to the following:

http://<iframe width="560" height="...yE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

His claim was that it was faked because.... the clouds didn't move.

I tried to explain to him the problem of SCALE in such images, that one is unlikely to see much movement of clouds at all in such short times as the video covers, but he just couldn't UNDERSTAND that.

Heck, I've laid out on a lounge chair watching clouds endless hours in my life and sometimes, even as close as they are, I have to find a marker to see them actually moving. Other times, of course, depending on the weather, they do move much faster. But at the scale of such videos, being able to see much - IF ANY - movement at all is unlikely. Most weather/cloud systems take DAYS to traverse a single small area of the planet.

In fact, from the video above, you should get the full impact of the SIZE of the earth, relative to the size of cities, human beings, etc, such that you can begin to realize why we have to resort to mathematics and certain observational processes to even grasp the size and shape of our planet.

 

[Kisito]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

What may seem strange is why an artificial satellite that has the size of a bus, can be seen turning around the earth to tens of kilometers away? All artificial satellites-they shine?

 

[Windmill knight]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

There is a theory that the Flat Earth Society is actually COINTELPRO with the aims of attracting alternative thinkers who do not believe the official NASA narrative, leading them to believe in something so outragous, so that in future times of unrest the PTB can basically say "Look! These people are stupid! They still believe the earth is flat!" thereby discrediting everything else that these alternative thinkers say or do.

Apparently not long ago Obama said, commenting on global warming, that "we don't have time to debate with the Flat Earth Society". In other words, if you don't believe in anthropogenic global warming, then you are as stupid as a flat-earther. Ironically the real flat-earthers online picked up the comment and took it to mean they were a real threat to the system or whatever.

 

[Laura]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

What may seem strange is why an artificial satellite that has the size of a bus, can be seen turning around the earth to tens of kilometers away? All artificial satellites-they shine?

What do you mean? Your statement/question is not clear.

Most remote sensing satellites, as well as national security assets are placed in LEO - an altitude between 160 kilometers (99 mi) (orbital period of about 88 minutes), and 2,000 kilometers (1,200 mi) (about 127 minutes). Medium Earth Orbit (MEO) is the region of space around the Earth above LEO (1,240 miles) and below geosynchronous orbit (22,240 miles). In MEO, orbital periods range from about two to 12 hours.

Objects below approximately 160 kilometers (99 mi) will experience very rapid orbital decay and altitude loss. The orbital velocity needed to maintain a stable low Earth orbit is about 7.8 km/s, but reduces with increased orbital altitude.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Earth_orbit

 

[Mr. Premise]

Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

Well, Ark has come up with a way to prove or disprove the theory. To understand it, here is an image of how the flat earthers picture the earth:

Now, I don't think that the flat earthers have given up on gravity... so, if they have not, then the obvious way to prove that the earth is flat is to first determine the thickness of the "plane of the earth" and to then stand at one of the further reaches of land surface and hold a pendulum in your hand. If it hangs at an angle, pointing toward your supposed "center of gravity" (i.e. the center of the plane), then you have proved that the earth is flat. If, however, the pendulum hangs straight down everywhere on the earth, then the earth is roundish.

That's pretty good. Also the flat earth theory seems to lack elegance and economy, in the sense that given the properties of matter and gravity spheres would be a natural way matter would aggregate in the universe. And evidence backs that up, since we can see many spheres but no big flat slabs. So it would have to be a "technological creation." So who would create such a thing and why? That violates the hell out of Occam's Razor!