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seekingObjectivity
Guest
To have understanding within and to have understanding without and know its difference exactly. In order that thought and action have zero temporal division.
What's your goal?
- Thread starter ark
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RML
Guest
“Meaning of our lives
Can you elaborate on why this is oxymoronic? The meaning of most people's lives, as far as they know, doesn't go much beyond their jobs, families, and other immediate goals and purposes. Some people also believe fairy tales of God and Heaven to supposedly create greater meaning, but in reality just make it worse because they make it all up. So personally when I say "meaning of our lives" I am talking about a potentially greater meaning beyond the earthly personality, beyond the physical shell - who we are, why we exist, and where we're going and why we're going there, etc.RML said:
It is only an oxymoron if you take it literally. Maybe a part of us needs to die so that another part can live? Then it would make sense. Have you read esoteric literature available on this site?RML said:
Well STO is "service to self through others". You cannot fully escape the service to self part - you need to exist and to have knowledge in order to assist others. But yet, STO is not STS. There is a fundamental difference in the approach. STO does not serve self, it serves all, including self. STS serves self, and only serves others if it gains something from it. You could phrase it any way you want, but again you seem to be looking at the literal semantics and not the underlying meaning that may be expressed.RML said:
One possibility: to understand the true nature of time and space (or lack thereof), which may require a higher-level non-linear awareness. So while we might not TRULY grasp how a timelses existance works right now, it is possible that if our awareness undergoes a "quantum leap", we may be able to understand. That's one possible meaning of that statement. But even on this level, there is such a thing as "seeing the unseen". It is similar to "reading between the lines", which I'm sure you understand the meaning of. Clearly there is nothing but paper between lines of text, but it is not a statement to be taken at face value and literally as you know, and neither are the other ones. Another example: A magic trick. It relies on our assumptions and redirecting our focus. Most people won't see how it works, and to them it will look impossible or magical. Others, if they are perceptive enough, can see the trick. On a global scale, it would mean understanding the true nature of those in power, the true nature of what they do and why they do it, even if at the surface what they present is the direct opposite, which fools many people. Do you know how psychopaths function in our "society" and why they remain undetected? My point is that the devil here is in the meaning, which for esoteric literature is often not literal and therefore not obvious. As for alchemical literature, it's even more so. Green language? Forgetitski! If you limit what you see to the "obvious" and refuse to think or look beyond this, then you'll not see or understand many things that speak on a slightly (or significantly) "deeper" level. And there are a LOT of such things in life, not just esoteric things - but even more common literature that while might not necessarily offer clues to "higher truths", if the author is clever, can speak on many levels as well.RML said:
Those phrases are blinders if the meaning is distorted, as it often is, but also they can be of great help if the true meaning is understood, assuming there is a true meaning and the phrase isn't nonsense to begin with. For example, the new age phrase "we're all one" isn't necessarily false on some level, but the way it is used and interpreted by new agers is false as it is mostly inapplicable on our level and it's therefore counterproductive and illogical to use that phrase for the things it is used for. Kinda like politicians toss around the word Freedom, but the meaning of it is completely flipped on its head and used to justify absolutely anything, if you can somehow twist that word and adapt it to your nefarious purposes. Those who are uncritical will not see the change. Those who are critical will. This leads to "seeing the unseen." Nothing terribly "mystical" about it, just a short-and-sweet way to express a concept for those who understand the concept.RML said:
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BoyTheo
Guest
To rebuild paradise.
Zadius Sky
The Living Force
Can you elaborate on that? It falls under "wishful thinking." What is your view of "paradise?"BoyTheo said:
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BoyTheo
Guest
No it doesn't fall under wishful thinking. Thinking that paradise is not going to be rebuilt is wishful thinking, what I am thinking of is inevitable. It can only happen, it can not not happen.Zadius Sky said:
Paradise... simply a place where all are innocent. Innocent is a superset, so it includes those who are pure good, and those who are just 100% respectful but aren't "good".
The thing is, to have those kind of beings, would mean anyone can basically rewrite physics to work as they like. Their energy as created from their souls, can grow like wildfire if they want it to. There will be no one to stop them, and they will stop no one else. With that level of magic around, we could do anything we wanted.
And what would there be to do? Simply, to have fun! To go on wild crazy magic adventures, or do whatever you like.
I'll probably spend a lot of time flying around, having parties and generally being good and kickass. One psychic said she saw me teleporting or "phasing" Through solid wall in my future, and I had a tall black tower with no doors, the only way in was to phase through the walls. I was showing people the way, leading a movement that was entirely peaceful. Nothing bad would ever happen to us.
Of course we'll rebuild the environment, but we'll do more than that. We'll encourage new life forms that could never exist under the current "veil". We'll develop a culture and civilisation that builds stuff that does NOT trample nature or the environment, instead encourages it. For a start, we'll build our cities with no roads, and the house walls touching the trees, thus clearing as little trees as possible for our civilisation. And all buildings will be grand and beautiful, not cheap like too many modern houses.
When you understand the basics of existance, you'll see how this is NATURAL.
What is unnatural, is our way of living today. Of mundaness, boringness, growing old, brutality of life to life, lonliness, and the sheer stupidity of human existance.
That is what is unnatural. Paradise is natural. Understanding the basics leads to this conclusion.
vinny
The Living Force
okaaay...BoyTheo said:
did you see my response on the other thread?BoyTheo said:
you seem to have missed what the issue is with cities in the first place. Why would 'cities' with grand and beautiful buildings have any place in 'paradise'? Cities are man's means of manipulating his living environment in order to take control and ownership of it, rather than to integrate themselves within it. they are part of the stupidity, and are NOT 'natural'. Primitive societies that work within nature do not have 'cities'.
and yet, these things must be as they are for a reason? if it is simply that the universe is 'broken' do you really think that you are 'fixing' it?
You posit your ideas as 'self evident', yet what you say does not make any sense to me.
You seem to have it all worked out with a lot of absolute certainty in your mind, yet your understanding seems to be missing some essential things.
You see, the assumption that a certain future is inevitable is precisely the definition of wishful thinking. As Vinny said, you're missing some very fundamental understandings, and making a tonload of assumptions about what you can do, and how the universe and everyone in it will end up under your authority. But hey, good luck with that, just count me out.BoyTheo said:
Yeah, but *learning* is fun. Again, you're missing some fundamental concepts. The universe is already created. It already has a point, always did, always will. Neither you, I, nor anyone can redefine the universe to how we want it to be, nor can we control the universe and everyone in it. This is called having a "staring contest" with the universe. Many have played that game and many play that game. Again, feel free, but count me out. I guess I could even say that the outcome of such a staring contest IS inevitable, although in this case saying "inevitable" does not constitute wishful thinking, if you think about it.BoyTheo said:
But you know, to some extent what you say doesn't have to be impossible at all. You can at some point achieve enough knowledge to literally create your own universe and dwell within it. Create your own laws, your own rules, have a "paradise" where everyone is forced to respect everyone else. It won't alter this universe or other universes created by others, it'll be yours, all yours. Like an infinite video game. After all, if something IS possible to achieve, it can and will be achieved. Some things you propose are impossible like being STO by being STS. But you can redefine "STO" in your universe too if you wanted to, which would then make it "possible" in that sense. But as I said, count me out, I prefer objective reality, I prefer the lessons that the entirety of creation offers in all its magnificence - in ALL faces of God, from the most negative to the most positive - it is ALL beautiful, it is all necessary to the whole, and it is infinite. And being infinite, there's plenty of "room" for subjectivity and fantasies and "games" and paradoxes and as many worlds and universes as you can dream up - so create any realities you want, I'm just not sure where this forum fits into your plans, as it has its own plans - to learn about the true nature of reality, and to help others do the same - because you see, this is fun for us, it is an adventure.
TheManyShadesOfJo
Padawan Learner
~ To disentangle my personality from my Self
~ To maintain full awareness, at all times: I had an example of what it would feel like if everybody simultaneously woke up; a man collapsed on the train, everyone went silent, 2 guys put him on a seat, the man came to and slumped there rubbing his hands, apparently ok. But for a couple of minutes the atmosphere was electrifying, everyone was so alert as to what he'd do next and everything was just so still. Of course this could just be my perception of it, but oh THAT'S how it feels to wake up! Sadly yes it faded, but that's definitely a state to work towards :)
~ To find and burn all Karmic consequences
~ To be able to see all the STS vs STO dynamics and exercise Free Will in choosing only that which is for the good of All.
~ To accumulate as much Knowledge as I can, discerning Truth from lies, that I may teach others
~ To maintain full awareness, at all times: I had an example of what it would feel like if everybody simultaneously woke up; a man collapsed on the train, everyone went silent, 2 guys put him on a seat, the man came to and slumped there rubbing his hands, apparently ok. But for a couple of minutes the atmosphere was electrifying, everyone was so alert as to what he'd do next and everything was just so still. Of course this could just be my perception of it, but oh THAT'S how it feels to wake up! Sadly yes it faded, but that's definitely a state to work towards :)
~ To find and burn all Karmic consequences
~ To be able to see all the STS vs STO dynamics and exercise Free Will in choosing only that which is for the good of All.
~ To accumulate as much Knowledge as I can, discerning Truth from lies, that I may teach others
daco
Jedi
I have my goal in life,to go and become zen monk (becouse of what G said that man must find a group of people to work and help others in the path),but for me it is very hard to do this,first of all I,m still young,I have time to think about this becouse if someday I go to the monastery it is the final decision and there is no back.
Besides becoming a zen monk,the real goal is to become master of oneself (without that nothing can be achieved),to be free,to gain will,awareness and to DO.
Besides becoming a zen monk,the real goal is to become master of oneself (without that nothing can be achieved),to be free,to gain will,awareness and to DO.
