Shijing said:
Ljubica said:
The old national name, Aryan (meaning “noble”), survived in both Persia and India and is in fact the source of the present day Iran.
Just wanted to note that there's a possible connection with
Orion here, although it's speculative. There have been various proposals about the origin of Indo-Iranian
Arya (
Aryan, with a final -n, is the adjectival form of the word), but there is apparently no consensus; likewise, the origin of Greek
Ὠρίων (Ōrīōn), which is borrowed into Middle English via Latin, is equally insecure (the most popular etymological proposals seem to be to either Akkadian
Uru-anna, 'heaven's light', or Greek
ouro 'urine', both of which are problematic).
Agree with you. Orion is pretty interesting name and should work on it a bit more, let's follow mythology.
According to Columbia Encyclopedia:
Orion (ōrī'ən), in Greek mythology, Boeotian hunter. When Oenopion delayed giving his daughter Merope to him, Orion, when drunk, violated her. Oenopion then blinded him, but his vision was restored by the rays of the sun. The story of Orion's death has many versions. Some state he offended Artemis, who killed him. Others say that he became her favorite hunting companion, but offended Apollo, who loosed a giant scorpion to chase Orion into the sea. Apollo then tricked Artemis into shooting Orion. When she discovered what she had done, she gave way to her grief and immortalized her companion and the scorpion by placing them in the heavens as constellations.
Orion, in astronomy, constellation located on the celestial equator. It is one of the most conspicuous and easily recognizable constellations in the entire sky. From ancient times it has been mentioned in the literature of many peoples and is traditionally depicted as the figure of a warrior. Four bright stars form a quadrangle marking his shoulders and feet; brilliant red Betelgeuse (Alpha Orionis) at his right shoulder, Bellatrix (Gamma Orionis) at his left shoulder, and dazzling Rigel (Beta Orionis) at his left foot are all among the 25 brightest stars in the sky, while Saiph (Kappa Orionis) at the right foot is of second magnitude. Three bright second-magnitude stars form a belt almost along the celestial equator; hanging from the belt is a sword of dimmer stars and including the famous Great Nebula (M42). Orion reaches its highest point in the evening sky in late January.
Orion trough various cultures:
The Babylonian star catalogues of the Late Bronze Age name Orion MULSIPA.ZI.AN.NA, "The Heavenly Shepherd" or "True Shepherd of Anu" - Anu being the chief god of the heavenly realms.[16] The Babylonian constellation was sacred to Papshukal and Ninshubur, both minor gods fulfilling the role of 'messenger to the gods'. Papshukal was closely associated with the figure of a walking bird on Babylonian boundary stones, and on the star map the figure of the Rooster was located below and behind the figure of the True Shepherd.
The Bible mentions Orion three times: Job 9:9 ("He is the maker of the Bear and Orion"), Job 38:31 ("Can you loosen Orion`s belt?"), and Amos 5:8 ("He who made the Pleiades and Orion"). In ancient Aram, the constellation was known as Nephila, Orion's descendants were known as Nephilim. End Quote. Interesting no?
more on: http://www.answers.com/topic/orion
On the same page I found more connections of Orion with other cultures:
Greek and Roman
Main article: Orion (mythology)
Orion's current name derives from Greek mythology, in which Orion was a gigantic hunter of primordial times. Some of these myths relate to the constellation; one story tells that Orion was killed by a giant scorpion; the gods raised him and the Scorpion to the skies, as Scorpio/Scorpius. Yet other stories say Orion was chasing the Pleiades.
The constellation is mentioned in Horace's Odes, Homer's Odyssey (Book 5, line 283) and Iliad, and Virgil's Aeneid (Book 1, line 535)
In pre-Christian Scandinavia, "Orion's belt" was known as Frigg's Distaff (Friggerock) or Freyja's distaff.
In Finnish mythology the constellation of Orion is called the scythe of Väinämöinen. The term most likely comes from the fact that it can be seen in the sky in early autumn in the Northern Hemisphere, the time of harvesting crops.
Indian
In Indian mythology, the Rig Veda refers to the Orion Constellation as Mriga (The Deer).
Chinese
In China, Orion was one of the 28 lunar mansions Sieu (Xiu) (宿). Known as Shen (參), literally meaning "three", it is believed to be named so for the three stars located in Orion's belt. (See Chinese constellations)
The Chinese character 參 (pinyin shēn) originally meant the constellation Orion (Chinese: 參宿; pinyin: shēnxiù); its Shang dynasty version, over three millennia old, contains at the top a representation of the three stars of Orion's belt atop a man's head (the bottom portion representing the sound of the word was added later).[26]
Native American
The Yokut Native American tribe of the California Central Valley saw the three bright stars as the foot prints of the god of the flea people. According to legend, when his five wives became itchy and ran away, three times the god of the flea people jumped into the sky to look for them. When his footprints are seen (stars are visible in the winter months) the flea people grow afraid and go into hiding (i.e. dormant). This helped explain to the tribal people why they couldn't count on those stars for guides in the summer months, and why there were no fleas about.
The Seri people of northwestern Mexico call the three stars in the belt of this constellation Hapj (a name denoting a hunter) which consists of three stars: Hap (mule deer), Haamoja (pronghorn), and Mojet (bighorn sheep). Hap is in the middle and has been shot by the hunter; its blood has dripped onto Tiburón Island.
The Aztecs called the belt and sword of Orion the Fire Drill. Its appearance over the horizon served as the signal of the start of the New Fire ceremony.
Australian aboriginal
Orion is also important in Australian Aboriginal Astronomy. For example, the Yolngu people of Arnhem Land say that the constellation of Orion, which they call Julpan, is a canoe. They tell the story of two brothers who went fishing, and caught and ate a fish that was forbidden under their law. Seeing this, the Sun sent a waterspout that carried the two brothers and their canoe up into the sky where they became the Orion constellation.
The stars of Orion were associated with Osiris, the sun-god of rebirth and afterlife, by the ancient Egyptians.
Orion has also been identified with the last Egyptian Pharaoh of the Fifth Dynasty called Unas who, according to the Pyramid Texts, became great by eating the flesh of his mortal enemies and then slaying and devouring the gods themselves. This was based on a belief in contiguous magic whereby consuming the flesh of great people would bring inheritance of their power. After devouring the gods and absorbing their spirits and powers, Unas journeys through the day and night sky to become the star Sabu, or Orion. The Pyramid Texts also show that the dead Pharaoh was identified with the god Osiris, whose form in the stars was often said to be the constellation Orion.
I found interesting article related to Orion and Nimrod by Petros Koutoupis on: http://www.petroskoutoupis.com/lib/Babylonian_Orion_Cetus.pdf
with nice explanations of stellyr names and meaning related to Orion trough ancient Mezzopotamia. Althiugh we mostly relate Orion to ancient Egypt, it is important to know that Mezzopotamian culture predate the culture of ancient Egypt, so perhaps the most oldest names of Orion are recorded on clay tablets.
as per wiki: In ancient Hungarian mythology, Orion is also a great hunter and warrior, his name is Nimród and he's the mythological father of Hungarians. end quote.
Interesting article related to Nimrod is: NIMROD BEFORE AND AFTER THE BIBLE on: http://www.michaelsheiser.com/PaleoBabble/NimrodHTR.pdf
quote: ....The emphatic precision that Nimrod was a mighty hunter "before the Lord"..... The Greek story of Orion's defeat by a scorpion could perhaps be adduced as a distant parallel of the Sumerian composition. Orion, though not a god, is a giant and a hunter. In response to his threat that he would exterminate all the living animals on earth, Gaia sent the scorpion to kill the arrogant hero. See P. Wehrli, "Orion," PW. Neue Bearbeitung 18/1 (Stuttgart: Metzler, 1939) 1073-74. end quote
This could be another traace of the Orion's picture.
Last article related to orion is on: http://www.geocentricity.com/constellations/pleiades.pdf
Quote:
According to Greek legend, Orion met Pleione and her seven
nymph daughters in Boeotia and pursued them through the woods for
five years until Zeus translated them all, Pleione, her seven virtuous
daughters, Orion, and even his dog into the heaven as the respective
constellations (the constellation of the dog is Canis Major)
......,...
According to the Jews,
Orion is Nimrod, the founder of the Babylonian religious system
and for all of you who would like to read more about Orion - Nimrod you could read book: The Babylon Connection? by Alexander Hislop.
more on: http://www.amazon.com/Babylon-Connection-Ralph-Woodrow/dp/0916938174#reader_0916938174
Unfortunately I did not find anything new on a name Nimrod:
The boy's name Nimrod \n(i)-m
rod, nim-
rod\ is of Hebrew origin, and the meaning of Nimrod is "we will rebel". Biblical: Nimrod "the mighty hunter" in Genesis.
A similar baby name is Njord.
Nimrod is an uncommon first name for men but a somewhat common last name for both men and women (#80522 out of 88799). (1990 U.S. Census)
Nimrod was a very significant man in ancient times, the grandson of Ham and great-grandson of Noah. Nimrod started his kingdom at Babylon (Gen. 10:10). Babylon later reached its zenith under Nebuchadnezzar (sixth century BC). Pictured above are mudbrick ruins of Nebuchadnezzar's city along with ancient wall lines and canals in modern day Iraq.
First, what does the name Nimrod mean? It comes from the Hebrew verb marad, meaning “rebel.” Adding an “n” before the “m” it becomes an infinitive construct, “Nimrod.” (see Kautzsch 1910: 137 2b, also BDB 1962: 597). The meaning then is “The Rebel.” Thus “Nimrod” may not be the character's name at all. It is more likely a derisive term of a type, a representative, of a system that is epitomized in rebellion against the Creator, the one true God. Rebellion began soon after the Flood as civilizations were restored. At that time this person became very prominent.
and from: http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Nimrod.html
imrod is a son of Cush, son of Ham, son of Noah. Nimrod is a mighty king, and the first active character after the flood-cycle.
"The beginning of his kingdom was Babel and Erech and Accad and Calneh, in the land of Shinar. From that land he went forth into Assyria, and built Nineveh and Rehoboth-Ir and Calah, that is the great city." - Genesis 10:10-12
The name Nimrod probably has to do with marad (marad 1240) meaning be rebellious, rebel, revolt.
Jones' Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names reads Rebel. NOBS Study Bible Name List reads Strong. BDB Theological Dictionary suggests a relation to the Babylonian god Marduk, or the star-god Namra-uddu.
another interesting thing is possible connection between Orion - Nimrod - Gilgamesh
from: http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/nimrod.html
How does Gilgamesh compare with “Nimrod?” Ancient historian Josephus says of Nimrod,
Now it was Nimrod who excited them to such an affront and contempt of God. He was the grandson of Ham, the son of Noah-a bold man, and of great strength of hand. He persuaded them not to ascribe it to God, as if it were through his means they were happy, but to believe that it was their own courage which procured that happiness. He also gradually changed the government into tyranny-seeing no other way of turning men from the fear of God, but to bring them into a constant dependence upon his own power.
He also said he would be revenged on God, if he should have a mind to drown the world again; for that he would build a tower too high for the waters to be able to reach! and that he would avenge himself on God for destroying their forefathers! (Ant. I: iv: 2)
What Josephus says here is precisely what is found in the Gilgamesh epics. Gilgamesh set up tyranny, he opposed YHWH and did his utmost to get people to forsake Him.
Two of the premiere commentators on the Bible in Hebrew have this to say about Genesis 10:9,
Nimrod was mighty in hunting, and that in opposition to YHWH; not ‘before YHWH’ in the sense of according to the will and purpose of YHWH, still less,… in a simply superlative sense… The name itself, ‘Nimrod’ from marad, ‘We will revolt,’ points to some violent resistance to God… Nimrod as a mighty hunter founded a powerful kingdom; and the founding of this kingdom is shown by the verb with consecutive to have been the consequence or result of his strength in hunting, so that hunting was intimately connected with the establishing of the kingdom. Hence, if the expression ‘a mighty hunter’ relates primarily to hunting in the literal sense, we must add to the literal meaning the figurative signification of a ‘hunter of men’ (a trapper of men by stratagem and force); Nimrod the hunter became a tyrant, a powerful hunter of men (Keil and Delitzsch 1975: 165).
“in the face of YHWH” can only mean ‘in defiance of YHWH’ as Josephus and the Targums understand it (op. cit.: 166).
And the proverb must have arisen when other daring and rebellious men followed in Nimrod's footsteps and must have originated with those who saw in such conduct an act of rebellion against the God of salvation, in other words, with the possessors of the divine promise of grace (loc. cit.).
The Gilgamesh Epic describes the first “God is dead” movement. In the Epic, the hero is a vile, filthy, perverted person, yet he is presented as the greatest, strongest, hero that ever lived (Heidel 1963: 18). So that the one who sent the Flood will not trouble them anymore, Gilgamesh sets out to kill the perpetrator. He takes with him a friend who is a monstrous half-man, half-animal-Enkidu. Together they go on a long journey to the Cedar Mountain to find and destroy the monster who sent the Flood. Gilgamesh finds him and finally succeeds in cutting off the head of this creature whose name is “Huwawa” (“Humbaba” in the Assyrian version; see Heidel 1963: 34ff).
Is there a connection with the Gilgamesh epic and Genesis 10? Note what Gilgamesh says to Enkidu the half man, half beast, who accompanied him on his journey, found in Tablet III, lines 147-150.
“If I fall,” Gilgamesh says, “I will establish a name for myself. Gilgamesh is fallen, they will say, in combat with terrible Huwawa.”
But the next five lines are missing from all tablets found so far! Can we speculate on what they say? Let's try… We suggest that those five lines include,
“But if I win, …they will say, Gilgamesh, the mighty vanquisher of Huwawa!”
Why do we say that? Because Genesis 10:9 gives us the portion missing from the Gilgamesh tablets. Those lines include. “it is said, Nimrod (or Gilgamesh) the mighty vanquisher of YHWH.” This has to be what is missing from all the clay tablets of the Gilgamesh story. The Gilgamesh Epic calls him Huwawa; the Bible calls Him YHWH.
Heidel, speaking of the incident as it is found on Tablet V says,
All we can conclude from them [the lost lines] is that Gilgamesh and Enkidu cut off the head of Humbaba (or Huwawa) and that the expedition had a successful issue [ending] (1963: 47).
The missing lines from the Epic are right there in the Bible!
Because of the parallels between Gilgamesh and Nimrod, many scholars agree that Gilgamesh is Nimrod. Continuing with Gilgamesh's fable, he did win, he did vanquish Huwawa and took his head. Therefore, he could come back to Uruk and other cities and tell the people not to worry about YHWH anymore, he is dead. “I killed him over in the Lebanon mountains. So just live however you like, I will be your king and take care of you.”
There are still other parallels between the Bible and the Gilgamesh epic:
*
“YaHWeH” has a somewhat similar sound to “Huwawa.” Gilgamesh did just as the “sons of god” in Genesis 6 did.
*
The “sons of god” forcibly took men's wives. The Epic says that is precisely what Gilgamesh did.
*
The Bible calls Nimrod a tyrant, and Gilgamesh was a tyrant.
*
There was a flood in the Bible; there is a flood in the Epic.
*
Cush is mentioned in the Bible, Kish in the Epic.
*
Erech is mentioned in Scripture; Uruk was Gilgamesh's city.
*
Gilgamesh made a trip to see the survivor of the Flood. This was more likely Ham than Noah, since “Nimrod” was Ham's grandson!
*
Historically, Gilgamesh was of the first dynasty of Uruk. As Jacobsen points out (1939: 157), kings before Gilgamesh may be fictional, but not likely. The fact that the Gilgamesh epic also contains the Deluge story would indicate a close link with events immediately following the Flood. S.N. Kramer says,
A few years ago one would have strongly doubted his (historical) existence… we now have the certitude that the time of Gilgamesh corresponds to the earliest period of Mesopotamian history. (Kramer 1959: 117)
end quote.
funny thing about Orion and direct Hebrew translation;
Orion
Hebrew: Kesil; i.e., “the fool”
the name of a constellation (Job 9:9; 38:31; Amos 5:8) consisting of about eighty stars
The Vulgate renders thus, but the LXX. renders by Hesperus, i.e., “the evening-star,” Venus. The Orientals "appear to have conceived of this constellation under the figure of an impious giant bound upon the sky." This giant was, according to tradition, Nimrod, the type of the folly that contends against God. In Isa. 13:10 the plural form of the Hebrew word is rendered “constellations.”