Where Troy Once Stood

Also, very relevant for this thread:

Excellent research in that article, which does seem to suggest that Venus settled into its current orbit about 5000 years ago.

It also makes sense that when Venus was first captured by the Sun around 80,000 years ago, its orbit was likely extremely long and elliptical like a comet - and it decreased with each pass into the inner solar system.

One thing that may be different than what Pierre proposed in this article is the timing of the seven passes of Venus that the C's talked about. They confirmed that one of those was during the Younger Dryas, but also that the second destruction of Atlantis was caused by a close passage of Venus.

Which suggests that the seven passes of Venus the C's referred to did not all happen between 12,000 and 5000 years ago. Maybe the initial orbit of Venus after capturing was extremely huge, maybe tens of thousands of years and the orbit then decreased with each pass over the 80,000 years period.
 
It is interesting that a Cadiz newspaper just reported (4-28-12) the following:
The above was from 2012. Fast-forward to today, more coming out of Cadiz:


Archaeologist believes new evidence of Atlantis to be found off coast of southern Spain

A new wave of research has revived one of history's greatest mysteries: the story of Atlantis.
'
Filmmaker and archaeologist Michael Donnellan claims that evidence preserved by Egypt's ancient priests of Sais points to an advanced civilization that once thrived in Atlantis, before vanishing some 11,600 years ago.

Donnellan told the Daily Mail that the priests described Atlantis as the homeland of their ancestors, a civilization that existed outside the Mediterranean world and 'beyond the Pillars of Heracles.'

He said their account was passed down to the Greek lawmaker Solon, who visited Egypt around 600 BC and recorded the tale that would later inspire the philosopher Plato's dialogues Timaeus and Critias.

According to Donnellan, Egyptian priests told Solon of a powerful empire that predated both Greece and Egypt but was destroyed 'in a day and a night.'

The cataclysm, they said, wiped out both Atlantis and ancient Athens, reshaping the Mediterranean and sparking flood myths that echo across cultures.

'They told Solon that 11,600 years ago, the same event destroyed Athens and the capital of Atlantis,' Donnellan explained. 'If it destroyed all of the Mediterranean, it would have caused global catastrophes for sure.'

Plato's writings describe Atlantis as a highly advanced civilization that built grand temples and massive harbors before being swallowed by the sea.

Modern researchers like Donnellan argue that the account may reflect real geological events at the end of the last Ice Age, when rising seas and massive floods transformed coastlines worldwide.

Donnellan said he believes ancient Egyptian records and Plato's text both point to a 'lost Atlantic civilization' that perished in a natural disaster, possibly earthquakes, tsunamis or a comet impact.

'The priests of Sais were the keepers of ancient knowledge,' he told the Daily Mail, adding that they worshiped the goddess Neith and maintained temple archives documenting global floods and the collapse of earlier societies.

'Their roots as a priesthood go back millennia.'

Plato wrote that the priests told Solon the Greeks were 'like children,' having lost all memory of earlier ages, while Egypt had preserved written records of events erased from Greek history, including the fall of a vast island civilization.

This maritime empire, they said, once tried to conquer Europe and Asia before being defeated by ancient Athens.

Plato also wrote that sudden destruction then hit the area: 'There occurred violent earthquakes and floods, and in a single day and night of misfortune... the island of Atlantis disappeared into the depths of the sea.'

He added that the waters where Atlantis once stood became 'impassable and impenetrable' from the mud left behind.

The priests also claimed that Athens and Sais were 'sister cities,' both founded by goddesses, Athena and Neith, and sharing a forgotten ancient heritage.

While no Egyptian texts confirming the story have been discovered, Plato dated Atlantis' fall to about 9,000 years before Solon's visit - or roughly 11,600 years ago - linking it to a world-ending cataclysm.

Donnellan insisted Solon's Egyptian journey was historical, not mythical. 'Solon was no fool,' he said. 'He was the man who wrote many of the laws of ancient Athens.

'Donnellan described Solon's meeting with Egypt's high priests as a rare exchange between two of the ancient world's great civilizations.

'You could sail from Athens to the Nile Delta easily,' he said. 'For a Greek, that would have been a straightforward voyage, almost like tourism.'

He argued that Plato's detailed retelling of the story contains too many consistent specifics to be fiction.

'You have to wonder how such a rich, coherent story survived across generations,' Donnellan posed to the Daily Mail. 'It seems likely Plato went back to the Egyptian records to make sure he got it right.'

Donnellan - who lives near Cádiz, Spain, known in antiquity as Gades - believes Plato's geographic clues point directly to this region as the true location of Atlantis.

'When Plato talks about the history or location of this ancient empire being in the region of Gades, the Greeks already knew what Gades was,' he said.

Over the past eight years, Donnellan has used advanced sonar mapping technology to scan the seabed off the coast of Cádiz, producing high-resolution 3D images that reveal massive underwater walls, road-like formations and the foundations of ancient structures.

He believes these ruins could be the remnants of a lost Atlantic civilization.

The site sits just beyond the Strait of Gibraltar, near what ancient Greeks called Portus Menestheus - a settlement tied to Menestheus, a hero of the Trojan War.

'He made his way out here, outside the Pillars of Heracles, and set up a settlement,' Donnellan explained.

To him, this ancient outpost may be a surviving fragment, or a memory, of Atlantis itself.

'There are remains of cataclysmic tsunamis,' he said, pointing to chaotic sediment layers and seashell deposits scattered throughout the Mediterranean basin. 'Nature's done its toll and swallowed up almost everything, but there are remains.'

Still, Donnellan believes some of the ancient knowledge of Atlantis may have endured through secret societies that preserved fragments of the truth. 'Do I think somebody is keeping it? Yes, absolutely,' he said, citing the Freemasons and the Knights Templar, whose symbols appear in medieval churches across southern Spain. 'People have been guarding this information for eons.'

For Donnellan, the legend of Atlantis is less a myth than a warning. 'It's scary,' he said. 'It could happen again, and it will.'



It's hard to tell if this archeologist, Michael Donnellan, read "Where Troy Once Stood" or not. I'm just glad someone with a camera, skills and the technology lives in the area, to document the little that is known. The archeological findings are a perfect match to Atlantean remains.

In "Where Troy Once Stood", Cadiz was Ithaca, Odysseus home country. We know that the events were from Bronze Age times, but the cataclysms alluded in the story were very possibly oral traditions from Atlantean times, transposed to later Bronze Age cataclysms and written down finally by Homer in 8 century B.C.
 
Session 13 January 2024
Q: (The Mexicans) What was so special about the last member of the Perseid family?

A: Carried the genes of power in undiluted form.

Q: (The Mexicans) Did it live after all and have descendants?

A: Yes.

Q: (The Mexicans) Do we know some of them?

A: Caesar.

Session 2 February 2003
A: And who was "Kore?"

Q: (L) Was this Abraham's daughter?

A: It was the last living member of the Perseid family.

Q: (L) Was it a male or female?

A: Female.
We have the last living member of the Perseid family... all mixed up with Abraham and Sarah otherwise known as Paris and Helen who was also Nefertiti
Helen/Nefertiti/Sarah

Initially, "from Greece (Perseid family) to Rome" - but "Nefertiti" adds up an Egyptian scent to history.

In addition, Rome built by steppe warriors:

Session 14 January 2023
A: 700 years approximately. By group of steppe warriors mixed with local groups.

Q: (Pierre) So the official history is not wrong so much about the timing of the founding of Rome?

A: Yes

I found the following bit, in Sallust:

Sallust - "The conspiracy of Catiline"

VI. Urbem Romam, sicuti ego accepi, condidere atque habuere initio Trojani, qui AEnea duce profugi sedibus incertis vagabantur, cumque his Aborigines, genus hominum agreste, sine legibus, sine imperio, liberum atque solutum.
<>
6. The city of Rome, as I have learned, was founded and originally possessed by the Trojans, who, under the leadership of Aeneas, were wandering in uncertain places as refugees, and with them were the Aborigines, a savage race of men, without laws, without government, free and uninhabited.

(a note says Sallust refers to Cato)

Potential similarities:
  • Founders of Rome: "steppe warriors" (C's) vs "aborigenes" (Sallust)
  • A Greek protagonist is at the origin: "Kore" (C's) vs "Aeneas" (Sallust)
  • Studying things in C mode allows to see Egypt in the background: "Nefertiti is Sarah is Helen" (C session) vs "Trojans built Rome" (Sallust)
The link seems to be "The founding of Rome".

No clue if this is of interest or relevant. I hope :-[
 
I have been digging a bit in the different characters. May I ask questions, please?

Session 2 February 2003
A: For protection from the fury of "Helen."
A: And who was "Kore?"
...
A: It was the last living member of the Perseid family.

Both names are in quotes; we know Helen was a fictional character, modeled out of Nefertiti; does "Kore" fall into the same consideration?

I have an additional question: all those stories amount to characters present in more or less three different stories: Egyptian, Greek, and the Bible. Some characters are "real", while some must be translated.

I.e. Nefertiti (real) <> Helen (myth)

What about Abraham? Must we consider him as real or mythical? I understand that he was a real character, and that it's by this name that we can "consider" him.

Thank you!
 
From: Session 2 February 2003
(L) And Abraham wanted to save this individual from the fury of Helen. (S) And why was Helen furious? What happened when Helen got furious? (Galahad) A thousand ships got launched... (L) And a lot of people died and have been dying ever since from this whole monotheistic rant. And it looks like Helen/Nefertiti/Sarah is the main source of the whole deal.

Well, if Paris was a pirate, then pretty much all of "Hellin" would get furious (up in arms) and 1000 ships would get launched to go put the 'smackdown' on Troy....? Especially if they'd stolen something significant, or magnificent, or important. Even more so if times were tough.

I had a bit of a giggle when I read this from "Where Troy Once Stood" Part 3, Chapter 2 - Navigation in the Bronze Age:

The 'crescent'shaped' ships of the period were very rapid and seem to have been designed both for piracy and for carrying bulk cargoes. According to Homer, some carried 120 men, while others, like those commanded by Odysseus, had a crew of 52: captain, pilot and 50 sailors/oarsmen. The Greek amphielissa (Il.II, 181) is variously rendered in the translation, but the most likely meaning seems to be 'curved at both ends', i.e. they were symmetrical in shape, with the bow being identical to the stern, so that they were able to sail in either direction. They were therefore more like the Viking ships we know from the Middle Ages than the quite asymmetrical ancient Mediterranean vessels....
 
Here is a paper describing the 2200 BC - 2000 BC event, as a potential successor of another event dated 2354 BC - 2345 BC

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7th Archaeological Conference of Central Germany (2014)

Mike Baillie and John McAneney
WHY WE SHOULD NOT IGNORE THE MID-24TH CENTURY BC WHEN DISCUSSING THE 2200–2000BC CLIMATE ANOMALY


paper

Much evidence exists for the major climate anomaly c. 2200 –-2000 BC. In this paper, we demonstrate that precisely dated-Irish bog oaks record this climatic event, which appears to-begin abruptly in 2206 BC and last until around 1900 BC.
However, it might be unwise to ignore the precisely dated,-abrupt environmental downturn that occurs some 150 years-earlier.
Irish and English oak tree rings draw attention to a-notable decade long growth downturn spanning 2354 BC to-2345 BC with hints of inundation.
Interest in this apparently localised inundation led to the discovery that traditions from-around the world preserve stories specifically dated to within-10 years of 2350 BC. These stories involve:
  • the Chinese emperor-Yao (traditional reign date 2357 BC), who presided over a-series of catastrophes, including floods, in 2346 BC
  • Archbishop Ussher, who used the dates 2349–2348 BC for the biblical Flood
  • the »birth« of three Mayan deities, GI, GII-and GIII, in the year 2360 BC
Furthermore, a smoothed growth-response for North European trees suggests the existence of a-37 year cycle of reduced growth, hinting that the events-around 2350 BC and 2200 –2000 BC may be related
One possible scenario to account for these various observations is-that something happened in the sky around this time with-memorable consequences for those on the ground; a scenario-highly compatible with controversial evidence for an anoma-lous dust deposition event observed at Tell Leilan in Syria.

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Tell Leilan, Syria

One paper stood out in the proceedings-by M.-A. Courty entitled »Causes and Effects of the 235o BC-Middle East Anomaly Evidenced by Micro-Debris Fallout,-Surface Combustion and Soil Explosion« (Courty 1998). Courty, a soil scientist, showed that there was good evidence from the site of Tell Leilan in Syria that something-had fallen out of the sky close to 2350 BC.

It dates to the transition between the Early Dynastic and the Early Akkadian periods.

The Biblical Flood, Old Testament

When the 2354–2345 BC event was proposed, it was quickly-realised that the traditional chronology of the Old Testament (OT) placed the biblical Flood at 2349–2348 BC. This is-the chronology that was applied to the OT by Archbishop-Ussher (Ussher 1658).

Strangely, in the Hebrew Talmud, there is a legend associating »cosmic events« with the biblical Flood: »When the Holy-One, blessed be He! wished to bring the Deluge upon the-world, He took two stars out of Pleiades, and thus let the-Deluge loose.« (Maunder 1908; Olcott 2004).

...

It is therefore plausible that atmospheric loading by extraterrestrial dust, with its long atmospheric residence time, could cause extended alteration to global climate and atmospheric circulation patterns, similar to those that may have occurred between 2200 BC and 2000 BC, particularly if cosmic dusting was spread over time.
 
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