Who would you prefer to meet if you had the chance to live with Laura or Julio Cesar for a while and why?

[Wandering Star]

Does that mean that it does not refer to a biological woman like Christ but to the right hemisphere, the creative potential, intuitions, maternal care, etc. that even men have?

Maybe.

 

[Wandering Star]

Has there not been someone out of the ordinary who has had extraordinary powers and who has stood out from the rest of humans?

Maybe several.

 

[whitecoast]

It's interesting to ponder about that, because Laura is probably far more relatable than Caesar, closer in language so it would be easier to communicate with her than with Caesar, plus she knows quite a bit about Caesar, so win win.

But then, it would be really interesting to be in Caesar's presence, like in Putin's presence, specially if the former had such an impact on Paul.

The topic of relatability made me think of a passage from ISOTM:

[T]he teacher always corresponds to the level of the pupil. The higher the pupil, the higher can be the teacher. But a pupil of a level which is not particularly high cannot count on a teacher of a very high level. Actually a pupil can never see the level of the teacher. This is a law. No one can see higher than his own level. But usually people not only do not know this, but, on the contrary, the lower they are themselves, the higher the teacher they demand. The right understanding of this point is already a very considerable understanding. But it occurs very seldom. Usually the man himself is not worth a brass farthing but he must have as teacher no other than Jesus Christ. To less he will not agree. And it never enters his head that even if he were to meet such a teacher as Jesus Christ, taking him as he is described in the Gospels, he would never be able to follow him because it would be necessary to be on the level of an apostle in order to be a pupil of Jesus Christ. Here is a definite law. The higher the teacher, the more difficult for the pupil. And if the difference in the levels of the teacher and pupil go beyond a certain limit, then the difficulties in the path of the pupil become insuperable.

It is exactly in connection with this law that there occurs one of the fundamental rules of the fourth way. On the fourth way there is not one teacher. Whoever is the elder, he is the teacher. And as the teacher is indispensable to the pupil, so also is the pupil indispensable to the teacher. The pupil cannot go on without the teacher, and the teacher cannot go on without the pupil or pupils. And this is not a general consideration but an indispensable and quite concrete rule on which is based the law of a man's ascending. As has been said before, no one can ascend onto a higher step until he places another man in his own place. What a man has received he must immediately give back; only then can he receive more. Otherwise from him will be taken even what he has already been given."

Ouspensky, P.D.; Gurdjieff, G.I.. In Search of the Miraculous . Unknown. Kindle Edition.

I bolded "there is no one teacher" because it really keeps with the spirit of the network and Fellowship, and that all of us are here to support one another's growth and teach by words but more importantly by example. Laura and Caesar may have a lot to teach us, but the big question is whether or not we are fully able to receive it. There's plenty of brilliant and kind people to learn from, here and all over the world, who may not have dramatic personal histories or world-shattering discoveries or legacies, but who can uplift us and help us become more aligned with a Higher calling in life.

 

[caballero reyes]

Talking, trying to get to know people, not by phone, is one of my favorite activities, but while you can't do it in person, then you can get to know them by their works/results.

 

[Alejo]

I bolded "there is no one teacher" because it really keeps with the spirit of the network and Fellowship, and that all of us are here to support one another's growth and teach by words but more importantly by example. Laura and Caesar may have a lot to teach us, but the big question is whether or not we are fully able to receive it. There's plenty of brilliant and kind people to learn from, here and all over the world, who may not have dramatic personal histories or world-shattering discoveries or legacies, but who can uplift us and help us become more aligned with a Higher calling in life.

Good point, which kind of speaks to the idea of receivership capability, are we able to handle and are we open to the information that may be provided by someone's presence in our lives, or will we miss it? But then, sometimes missing a lesson while someone is around can be the most effective way to learn something.

But it also reminds me of the idea of humility, and identification and how certain we are of our knowledge in any given area, how sure of ourselves are we? I think that most people we meet, probably everyone, has got something to teach us at some level, but I think generally we tend to not want to admit this fact because we grab our identity largely from the way we think we're being perceived by others, and that means in a lot of instances, knowledgable or someone who knows enough. As such, we close ourselves to learning from someone else.

Which reminds me too of the idea of hospitality that was discussed several years ago, and Homer's work in the Iliad and the Odyssey, without forgetting about boundaries and yourself, but the idea of "you could be in the presence of a god" is probably very useful in this regard.

 

[Il Matto]

Good point, which kind of speaks to the idea of receivership capability, are we able to handle and are we open to the information that may be provided by someone's presence in our lives, or will we miss it?

This is a really useful point and made me think about self-importance / internal consideration as a key thing that prevents being able to receive information (or it is in my case at least).
With the mention of receivership capability I was also reminded of the idea that, 'when the student is ready, the teacher will appear' (or something like that!). We tend, I think, to be immediately surrounded by people that we would do well to learn from, good or bad. After all, a wise person learns from their mistakes and a genius learns from the mistakes of others!

 

[Alejo]

With the mention of receivership capability I was also reminded of the idea that, 'when the student is ready, the teacher will appear' (or something like that!). We tend, I think, to be immediately surrounded by people that we would do well to learn from, good or bad. After all, a wise person learns from their mistakes and a genius learns from the mistakes of others!

Indeed,

It's one of those things I have considered constantly, specially when thinking about the family we're born into, all those experiences we grow up with, they're probably the basis of a learning plan we wrote ourselves.

 

[Il Matto]

specially when thinking about the family we're born into, all those experiences we grow up with, they're probably the basis of a learning plan we wrote ourselves.

Yes, I've actually been thinking about this a great deal recently. Over the years, I have had the growing realisation that I'm a bit of an 'odd one out' in my family. I've been fortunate to have loving, giving parents, for example, whom I love, but I've long known that there are limits as to how much we can really understand each other. There just seems to be something quite different about the realities we inhabit..

All that is to say that, on some level, I chose that, and in all likelihood, so did they.
It must be at least in part because of those decisions, that 'learning plan' you referred to Alejo, that I am sat here having found Laura's work; this forum and all the wonderful folks who are part of this network, pondering the OP's original question. Both bizarre and humbling!

 

[Alejo]

Yes, I've actually been thinking about this a great deal recently. Over the years, I have had the growing realisation that I'm a bit of an 'odd one out' in my family. I've been fortunate to have loving, giving parents, for example, whom I love, but I've long known that there are limits as to how much we can really understand each other. There just seems to be something quite different about the realities we inhabit..

I understand what you describe, I used to feel very much like that at some point, but the more I dug through my own inner workings and saw my immediate family, the more I realized I 'belonged' in there, somehow. We shared a few lessons, and we also helped one another in different ways because of specific traits and abilities.

More generally, something I've come to realize about life is that there's a sort of symmetry to life when taken as a whole, and think this also applies particularly to family events and relations.

 

[Il Matto]

the more I dug through my own inner workings and saw my immediate family, the more I realized I 'belonged' in there, somehow. We shared a few lessons, and we also helped one another in different ways because of specific traits and abilities.

Thank you Alejo.
There is no doubt that I have much to do in terms of digging through my inner workings, but even from my current perspective I can see that I also 'belong' with my immediate family in some sense; that we have had important lessons to learn and clearly decided to share those experiences for the most part.