Why 7
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John G
The Living Force
The Enneagram, octaves, and Rodin coils do for me seem to relate to known algebra that is used for physics.
http://www.tony5m17h.net/SegalConf2.html#MarkoRodin
http://www.tony5m17h.net/cube.html#plato
http://www.tony5m17h.net/musPhys.html
http://www.oocities.org/athens/agora/3199/celtic.html
http://vixra.org/pdf/0910.0023v4.pdf
Rodin, the Celtic Enneagram, and the viXra paper above use the 124875 powers of 2 version (mentioned earlier in this thread by Martfotai) of the law of 7. I think this is because that is the actual circular symmetry version while the conventional 142857 is a left to right symmetry.
http://www.tony5m17h.net/SegalConf2.html#MarkoRodin
http://www.tony5m17h.net/cube.html#plato
http://www.tony5m17h.net/musPhys.html
http://www.oocities.org/athens/agora/3199/celtic.html
http://vixra.org/pdf/0910.0023v4.pdf
Rodin, the Celtic Enneagram, and the viXra paper above use the 124875 powers of 2 version (mentioned earlier in this thread by Martfotai) of the law of 7. I think this is because that is the actual circular symmetry version while the conventional 142857 is a left to right symmetry.
Not that I'm aware of :) Working on, with, about, etc. can be tricky. The matter of "Why 7" (why not?) IMHO is about the very mystery of existence/nonexistence, and being/non-being in its "why" and "how" manifestation in our minds. Why and/or how the finite from infinity? Why and/or how multiplicity from unity? And what does that mean? As it manifests in the enneagram, there are ups and downs, and there is cyclicity. We seem to be in a state of existence that is situated at some crossroads between the unicity of existence, and the infinity of its manifestation. Is that what 7 (or 1/7) with its properties represent? I don't know. This leads to other questions of course, like, are the properties of given number inherent to that number in any state of manifestation, or do we perceive that number as such for a given manifestation because it represents those properties? Then how do our perception and awareness fit in the larger mystery, that of unicity, infinity, and finite multiplicity? And it goes on and on to those question that can keep one awake at night, for which the translation to our ordinary language eludes us. Therefore, I will humbly refrain from "philosophizing" (in the gurdjieffian sense) for it is very likely the wrong tool to work through these things. The thing is, one has to firmly climb the scale step by step, because by trying to jump too high when one is still not used to altitude, one may fall and that can be pretty hurtful :) OSIT ATMMartfotai said:
John G
The Living Force
Martfotai said:
The Celtic Enneagram has its opposites on the circle adding to 9 ( 8-1, 7-2, 6-3, 5-4) with the 9 in the middle of the circle. The conventional 4th Way Enneagram has the 8-1, 7-2, 6-3, and 5-4 as left-right on the same row with the 9 in the left-right middle.
Martfotai
Padawan Learner
mkrnhr said:
I do think 'why 7' is largely a reflection of the perceptual capabilities of these human vessels in 3D. From a 4th dimensional perspective, the "discontinuity of vibrations" which forms the basis of the theory of the Law of 7 is no longer applicable -- it has to do with manifestation and a certain level. And a very important level, for as long as we are here in these bodies. In that regard, I think it's very useful to understand the laws. Of course, it is one thing to know, and another to understand ... and still another to BE. Yes, I try to avoid wiseacring at all costs, but useful intellectual pondering certainly has it's place. It's useful if we can apply what we think we know against actual experience, and then change our perspectives accordingly.
I also think that many of the people I've met "in the Work" who tend to poo-poo anything intellectual as wiseacring are themselves buffering their own laziness and fear of confronting that which they do not know. They will often say that it is unknowable, and one's real work is with keeping one's eyes down to the path in front. To that, I will direct them to the Emblem of the Akhaldan, and more specifically, the wings of the eagle.
Martfotai
Padawan Learner
[quote author="Beelzebub's Tales, p.308-11"]
“It is extremely interesting to notice here that they erected at the chief entrance of that huge enclosure a rather large—large of course in comparison with the size of their presences—stone statue called ‘Sphinx’ which strongly reminded me of the statue I saw on my first descent in person to your planet in the city of Samlios, just opposite the enormous building belonging to the learned society Akhaldan and which was then called the ‘chief cathedral of the society Akhaldan.’
“The statue I saw in the city of Samlios and which greatly interested me, was the emblem of this society, and was called ‘Conscience.’
“It represented an allegorical being, each part of whose planetary body was composed of a part of the planetary body of some definite form of being existing there, but of the parts of those beings of other forms who, according to the crystallized notions of the three-brained beings there, had to perfection one or another being-function.
“The main mass of the planetary body of the said allegorical being was represented by the trunk of a being there of definite form, called ‘Bull.’
“This Bull trunk rested on the four legs of another being existing there, also of a definite form, called ‘Lion,’ and to that part of the Bull trunk called its ‘back’ two large wings were attached similar in appearance to those of a strong bird-being breeding there, called ‘Eagle.’
“And on the place where the head should be, there was fixed to the Bull trunk, by means of a piece of ‘amber,’ two breasts representing in themselves what are called ‘Breasts of a virgin.’
“When I became interested on the continent Atlantis in this strange allegorical image, and then enquired about its meaning, one of the learned members of the Great Society of men-beings explained it to me as follows:
“‘This allegorical figure is the emblem of the society Akhaldan and serves for all its members as a stimulus constantly to recall and awaken in them the corresponding impulses attributed to this allegorical figure.’
“‘And this emblem of ours is understood by all of us, members of the society Akhaldan, in the following way:
“‘The trunk of this allegorical being, represented by the trunk of a “Bull,” means that the factors crystallized in us and which engender in our presences the impulses maleficent for us, those we have inherited, as well as those we have personally acquired, can be regenerated only by indefatigable labors, namely, by those labors for which among the beings of our planet, the Bull is particularly fitted.
“‘That this trunk rests on the legs of a “Lion” means that the said labors should be performed with that cognizance and feeling of courage and faith in one’s “might,” the property of which “might” is possessed among all the beings of the Earth in the highest degree by the possessor of these legs—the mighty Lion.
“‘The wings of the strongest and the highest soaring of all birds, the Eagle, attached to the Bull trunk, constantly remind the members of our society, that during the said labors and with the mentioned inner psychic properties of self-respect, it is necessary to meditate continually on questions not related to the direct manifestations required for ordinary being-existence.
“‘And as regards the strange image of the head of our allegorical being, in the form of the “Breasts of a virgin,” this expresses that Love should predominate always and in everything during the inner and the outer functionings evoked by one’s consciousness, such a Love as can arise and be present only in the presences of concentrations formed in the lawful parts of every whole responsible being in whom the hopes of our COMMON FATHER are placed.
“And that the head is fixed to the trunk of the Bull with “amber” signifies that this Love should be strictly impartial, that is to say, completely separated from all the other functions proceeding in every whole responsible being.’
“In order, my boy, that the sense of this latter emblem put into the material called there amber, may become quite comprehensible to you, I must add that amber is one of those seven planetary formations, in the arising of which the Omnipresent Active Element Okidanokh takes part with all its three separate, independent, sacred parts, in equal proportion; and in the process of planetary actualization, these intraplanetary and surplanetary formations serve for what is called the ‘impeding’ of the independent flow of these three localized independent sacred parts.”[/quote]
“It is extremely interesting to notice here that they erected at the chief entrance of that huge enclosure a rather large—large of course in comparison with the size of their presences—stone statue called ‘Sphinx’ which strongly reminded me of the statue I saw on my first descent in person to your planet in the city of Samlios, just opposite the enormous building belonging to the learned society Akhaldan and which was then called the ‘chief cathedral of the society Akhaldan.’
“The statue I saw in the city of Samlios and which greatly interested me, was the emblem of this society, and was called ‘Conscience.’
“It represented an allegorical being, each part of whose planetary body was composed of a part of the planetary body of some definite form of being existing there, but of the parts of those beings of other forms who, according to the crystallized notions of the three-brained beings there, had to perfection one or another being-function.
“The main mass of the planetary body of the said allegorical being was represented by the trunk of a being there of definite form, called ‘Bull.’
“This Bull trunk rested on the four legs of another being existing there, also of a definite form, called ‘Lion,’ and to that part of the Bull trunk called its ‘back’ two large wings were attached similar in appearance to those of a strong bird-being breeding there, called ‘Eagle.’
“And on the place where the head should be, there was fixed to the Bull trunk, by means of a piece of ‘amber,’ two breasts representing in themselves what are called ‘Breasts of a virgin.’
“When I became interested on the continent Atlantis in this strange allegorical image, and then enquired about its meaning, one of the learned members of the Great Society of men-beings explained it to me as follows:
“‘This allegorical figure is the emblem of the society Akhaldan and serves for all its members as a stimulus constantly to recall and awaken in them the corresponding impulses attributed to this allegorical figure.’
“‘And this emblem of ours is understood by all of us, members of the society Akhaldan, in the following way:
“‘The trunk of this allegorical being, represented by the trunk of a “Bull,” means that the factors crystallized in us and which engender in our presences the impulses maleficent for us, those we have inherited, as well as those we have personally acquired, can be regenerated only by indefatigable labors, namely, by those labors for which among the beings of our planet, the Bull is particularly fitted.
“‘That this trunk rests on the legs of a “Lion” means that the said labors should be performed with that cognizance and feeling of courage and faith in one’s “might,” the property of which “might” is possessed among all the beings of the Earth in the highest degree by the possessor of these legs—the mighty Lion.
“‘The wings of the strongest and the highest soaring of all birds, the Eagle, attached to the Bull trunk, constantly remind the members of our society, that during the said labors and with the mentioned inner psychic properties of self-respect, it is necessary to meditate continually on questions not related to the direct manifestations required for ordinary being-existence.
“‘And as regards the strange image of the head of our allegorical being, in the form of the “Breasts of a virgin,” this expresses that Love should predominate always and in everything during the inner and the outer functionings evoked by one’s consciousness, such a Love as can arise and be present only in the presences of concentrations formed in the lawful parts of every whole responsible being in whom the hopes of our COMMON FATHER are placed.
“And that the head is fixed to the trunk of the Bull with “amber” signifies that this Love should be strictly impartial, that is to say, completely separated from all the other functions proceeding in every whole responsible being.’
“In order, my boy, that the sense of this latter emblem put into the material called there amber, may become quite comprehensible to you, I must add that amber is one of those seven planetary formations, in the arising of which the Omnipresent Active Element Okidanokh takes part with all its three separate, independent, sacred parts, in equal proportion; and in the process of planetary actualization, these intraplanetary and surplanetary formations serve for what is called the ‘impeding’ of the independent flow of these three localized independent sacred parts.”[/quote]
Hi Martfotai,
After posting I suspected somehow that what I wrote wasn't completely clear. At least you resonated with the idea of perception from the 3D vintage point. I didn't want to offend you and the philosophizing remark wasn't a rejection of the good work of the intellectual center (and not directed to you nor to any participant in this thread) for that's a vital instrument for the work and rejecting it would be idiotic and irresponsible. I don't know exactly how you've got the idea of the unknowable but that's my fault for not being clear. I suspect though, that the confusion may have come from the use of the world "mystery". It can be interpreted as something "transcendant" if one considers its religious connotation. In the post above it is used in a more "mundane" sense.
When you (not you Martfotai, it's a figure of speech) don't know something at a certain point, it doesn't imply that you'll never know it at some other point. Another image, instead of that of climbing the scales, may have been clearer indeed.
After posting I suspected somehow that what I wrote wasn't completely clear. At least you resonated with the idea of perception from the 3D vintage point. I didn't want to offend you and the philosophizing remark wasn't a rejection of the good work of the intellectual center (and not directed to you nor to any participant in this thread) for that's a vital instrument for the work and rejecting it would be idiotic and irresponsible. I don't know exactly how you've got the idea of the unknowable but that's my fault for not being clear. I suspect though, that the confusion may have come from the use of the world "mystery". It can be interpreted as something "transcendant" if one considers its religious connotation. In the post above it is used in a more "mundane" sense.
When you (not you Martfotai, it's a figure of speech) don't know something at a certain point, it doesn't imply that you'll never know it at some other point. Another image, instead of that of climbing the scales, may have been clearer indeed.
Martfotai
Padawan Learner
I was responding from a place of personal experience with many of the third generation Work practitioners (by that, I mean, not G's students, but his students' students and his students' students' students) who shared what I perceived as a similar sentiment. So when I said "they will often say it is unknowable" I was not referring to YOU, but drawing a connection between what I felt were similarly connected sentiments. I'm glad that was not the case ;)
R
redstar
Guest
sarek said:
I've thought in this question many times... I suspect it has to do with the concept of separation in an existentialist philosophical context.
If God is everything that exists, it needs to sleep its consciousness in part in order to experiment the illusion of the multiplicity, the separation.
Some people say that the best shape is the sphere and use it to represent God, The Spirit, etc. and you need 7 spheres to form a closed ring where all its nodes are in touch with its center:
(Example image)
_http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/156/426518218_0b76e3dda4_b.jpg
This is only an intuition but, could this be related with the first step of the "separation" of The Being?
- Seven is Prime. A Mersenne Prime.
- It's also a "balance" number. With three on one side, one in the middle and three on the other side.
Or, Six nodes rotating around a stationary middle node.
- Seven "days" of creation.
- As has been pointed out on this thread, most humans see about seven color types emanating from white light refracted through a prism. (physical and symbolic)
The numbers used in esoteric writings are to be seen as symbolic IMO.
I don't think it's a matter of where you are, more of what you're aware of.
If we exist, and we do.. then we exist in all densities. The question is, where is the awareness focused ?
Just some thoughts I hope someone finds useful
- It's also a "balance" number. With three on one side, one in the middle and three on the other side.
Or, Six nodes rotating around a stationary middle node.
- Seven "days" of creation.
- As has been pointed out on this thread, most humans see about seven color types emanating from white light refracted through a prism. (physical and symbolic)
The numbers used in esoteric writings are to be seen as symbolic IMO.
I don't think it's a matter of where you are, more of what you're aware of.
If we exist, and we do.. then we exist in all densities. The question is, where is the awareness focused ?
Just some thoughts I hope someone finds useful
Micah Awake
The Force is Strong With This One
transientP said:
Is this is the case, then how are we able to adjust the frame of reference our awareness is focused upon?
I can understand the concept of non-Linear time and that we are existing in all times past, present in the now, correct? Is this pertaining to the focus of our awareness? It makes it sounds as if we could shift or see into other densities by shifting/focusing our awareness. Or is what we are doing focusing on a 'memory' (which is to say what is happening at that moment where our awareness is focused)?
Micah Awake said:
It's just that we're used to calling it "memories" and "expectations", and we're desensitized to what they actually are. If we called them "Semi Physical Time Experiment", then maybe they would have a different meaning ?
There is a now moment, and sometimes it explodes outward and creates virtual time. And we call that stuff "memories" and "expectations". But I don't believe memories come from a past. I think they extend out from now, go out and create or collect some stuff, and come back to now with information.
