Women Who Love Psychopaths

Thank you Laura. This post, along with other recent ones from you have made me 'sink' some personal understandings a bit deeper. You wrote:

This idea raises a lot of issues, not the least of which is what genuinely spiritual men need to do to get over their hang-ups and learn to give on all levels: mentally, emotionally, physically and spiritually; and women who need to learn how to distinguish the true from the false.

I'd say that at least for me, as a man, the two things that have prevented me from giving truly and on all levels (which I want to do) are fear and imagination. I now see that the longing is not bad in itself; it's both the fear of being alone forever and the imagination that 'she' is here or there that mess things up. The good news is that I think I'm much capable now of living without those two things than I was a couple of years ago - or at least that's how I feel at the moment. And I have to thank you for that too!
 
I have had a number of thoughts about love that I would like to share that are based on personal experience and observation, not to mention years of helping others with their relationship problems.

One thing that kept going around in my mind over the past couple of days was what Gurdjieff said about love:

Gurdjieff said:
"Conscious love evokes the same in response.
Emotional love evokes the opposite.
Physical love depends on type and polarity."

What, exactly, did he mean by these three statements?

When he said "physical love depends on type and polarity" he was probably talking about the type of individuals involved and whether or not there was a good "match" between the individuals' in terms of their type (man 1, 2, 3) and their traits (polarity) etc. In short, he seems to be suggesting that love that begins as a physical attraction MIGHT work in some cases depending on the variables involved. That's really like saying it is a crapshoot for most people, though obviously something could be made of it if the individuals (or someone) at least were able to see their type and polarity and make a "educated choice." In other words, for it to work, it almost has to move into the realm of "conscious love."

Emotional love, as his little aphorism depicts it, seems to be describing projection... we know that one pretty well. One person gets his emotions cranking, projects onto another an image of something that this other cannot (or probably cannot) ever be, and more or less makes emotional demands that cannot be met which then deteriorates into resentment and finally disunion or even hate. This can also describe “love” with a psychopath. The psychopath induces the emotions, generates the projection process, and bingo!

We've certainly had enough examples of that sort of thing to look at (not to mention, many of us experiencing it; it might be the most common type of relation that passes for "love.")

But what about conscious love that evokes the same in response? What exactly is this?

Well, I've been thinking a lot about it over the past few years, thinking about my own experiences, including my relationship with Ark, things the Cs have said, and here is what occurs to me to say:

When two individuals encounter one another there can be reactions from any one or combination, or all three, of the above "centers" - intellectual/consciousnes, emotional, moving/sex center/physical body.

If the first reaction is physical, the sex center energy can make the emotional center begin to move and this emotional and/or sex/moving cener energy can then be usurped by the intellect and the individual begins to dream and to manufacture reasons why what the body/sex center wants is good and "real love" or whatever.

As we know, this is a path full of traps and tricks and can lead to disaster. Yet it is the usual way in the world and the source of incredible misery and suffering. Most of us come from families where this was the mode of interaction between our parents, the reasons they got married. I don't think I need to give all the examples of how this works. We can see that this can create the "emotional love projection" and so on.

That's not to say that once in a while a relationship that starts this way can't work out. But if it does, it is a function of other centers taking over at the appropriate moment and the likelihood of that happening is pretty remote.

Of course, the chances of such an attraction working are greatly increased if the individuals encounter one another in particular situations. For example, if you go to a bar, you generally go to "meet people" and the people who go to bars to meet people are generally interested mainly in meeting them for sexual reasons, not intellectual or spiritual reasons (though they may lie to themselves about their reasons to make it “okay”.) The same can be true for about any venue: if you go to a chess club to meet people (rather than to play chess), you may meet a different kind of person, but you will still be going there for reasons other than chess and if you meet someone who is there to meet people too, then both of you have met for reasons other than chess and probably are lying to the self. If, on the other hand, you are going to play chess and others are going to play chess, and you meet someone and form a relationship based on your mutual interest in chess which then blossoms, there is more hope for such a relationship. That is, you are not being driven by the moving/sex center and/or emotional center which is hungry, to go to the chess club to "meet someone", even if this is veiled in excuses to the self that you are going because you like chess.

What I mean to say is if you go somewhere for a pure and true interest and you HAPPEN to meet someone else in that venue who is also there for similar honest reasons, that is, they have not come there for the express (even if hidden) purpose of "meeting someone", then at least you have the possibility of having something in common.

Hope that's clear.

Continuing...

Two people meet in a particular environment where they have arrived NOT for the purpose of "finding someone," but because they are there for deeper reasons. Already the odds are in their favor a LITTLE bit.

Now, suppose that in this encounter, rather quickly, the moving/sex center feels a physical attraction and kicks the emotional center and the sex and emotional energy suffuses the intellect. Well, that can really complicate things as we have observed, but still, there is a chance that once this sort of energy has burned off that there is something fundamental there to work with in terms of real love. It can take time and it can involve suffering – even a LOT of suffering - but there is that one factor that the two individuals at least encountered one another in a particular context that did NOT include being driven by the moving/sex center.

Of course, it is possible for the moving/sex center to drive a person to do certain things because that energy is being consumed by other centers. If a person joins a chess club because their sex center energy makes them fanatical about chess, a sort of chess revolutionary, then there can be problems. If a person joins a church because their sex center energy is driving them to religious fanaticism, same thing... Gurdjieff talks about this as "the abuse of sex." That really amounts to lying to the self about why you do things.

But anyway, getting back to our theoretical situations: two people meet in a particular context that gives some positive environmental factors to their meeting even if they have some problems with emotional center management. All kinds of pain and lessons can ensue from this even if there is good reason to think that the two individuals are good or right for each other! After all, they met NOT because they were out there "hunting for sex" or hunting to feed their false personality - but because they had a sincere interest in the context which brought them together.

It is also possible that two such people can do irreparable damage to each other even if they are right for each other (indicated by the context in which they met) because the sex center and emotional center energy starts flooding their systems and causing them to lie to each other and to themselves, or at least, to not be completely sincere and externally considerate of one another.

So, how to proceed?

Remember this from Gurdjieff:

"The chief means of happiness in this life is the ability to consider externally always, internally never."

And, generally, when one is considering relationships between people who are wounded, where the centers are not balanced, this is a very difficult objective to attain.

The Knightly ideal seems to be a good model: There are dragons imprisoning the princess in the tower and the knight must slay them, but he needs SOME help from the Princess who must give him certain information to help him. Then, once he has freed her from the tower, she must help him rest and recover or even heal wounds received in the battle with HER dragon.

That's the metaphor for dealing with emotional programs and discombobulated (that's a technical term) relationships of centers.

What does it mean in practical terms?

Well, it will be different for different relationships because of the individual differences in nature and polarities and so on. Here's where Gurdjieff's remark about physical love also comes into play.

In general, we have observed that MOST of the time, the man plays the knightly role (we are talking about people working on themselves, not people “out there” who have no knowledge of The Work) but it does happen that this can shift back and forth depending on the issue at hand. SOMEtimes, the woman can be the symbolic knight and slay a dragon plaguing the man - but that is not very common. Usually, the dynamic follows the metaphor pretty closely.

How does this "dragon slaying" play out in practical terms?

It involves knowledge and elimination of barriers to intimacy. After all, the knight and the princess in the tower actually represent the two soul essences that wish to unite and become one.

Because of our life experiences, our dragons are programs (buffers in Gudjieffspeak) that form in our natures - our false personality, so to say - as a means of dealing with what amounts to crazy-making environments usually created by parents who married for the wrong reasons and live out their lives in dysfunctional situations that turn them into narcissists and vampires in respect of each other, their children, everyone they know to one degree or another.

When, as children, our expectations or trust has been repeatedly damaged in small and not so small ways, we become tense and suspicious and defensive. When we are tense and suspicious and defensive, we stop communicating openly. Our communication becomes "formulaic" - what we believe we can safely say without getting hurt - and narrow, what we think the other person wants to hear. This is a major dragon that must be slain.

Why?

Because if there is no true and honest, essence to essence communication, there is NO intimacy.

The most important thing about a relationship is that the two people share CLEAR and HONEST information about each other. And this means not just what the false personality judges to be clear and honest according to the emotional energy that can start running the show, but objectively clear and honest.

If information is shared that is cloudy or mystifying or confusing, intimacy is not possible.

Our wounded emotions will tend to make us hear and see only what we want to see and hear. We cherry pick info from our environment as "evidence" of what we want to be true. And very often, what we want to be true is that we want to replicate the environment in which we grew up where we were trying so desperately to get real love and attention. We want to replicate this old and dysfunctional environment because we want to "fix it." This is generally a function of the physical attraction which seeks to replicate that old dynamic ...

When, in a relationship, a person is blocked by either their own programs, (buffers) or by the behavior of the other person (their programs/buffers), from giving clear information and having that information received and understood, it feels like an invasion of our sanity. That is "crazy-making." It can be as crazy-making as not getting clear information from the other person. And it is particularly bad when it concerns our emotions.

The fear of communicating directly and the fear of receiving direct and honest communication is equally bad... and can destroy a relationship even between two people who are "right" for each other.

The fear of saying what we feel can result in us shutting down our feelings altogether!!! We begin to censor not only externally, but internally. We get caught in a trap of denying to others AND TO OURSELVES, what we really feel.

We all have the right to our feelings. But, as children, the actions begin that shut those feelings down, stunt them, freeze them at an infantile state of development. When our parents try to impose THEIR views on us, to convince us that we do not feel the way we do, that we must feel the way THEY do, we also become angry. And the feeling of anger, not being acceptable, is also suppressed. We may get angry at our parent and they then switch into "victim" or "martyr" mode, and we feel guilty for our feelings of aggression, so we sacrifice our feelings for peace and goodwill.

All of these programs are dragons that must be slain so that the knight and princess can come together.

Good mental health and good physical health requires that we perceive the realities of our lives as clearly and accurately as possible.

A good relationship requires that we can share these perceptions honestly and openly and even find resonance in our partner.

When the other person constantly forces us (by subtle or not-so-subtle means) to constantly deny or suppress reality as we perceive it because THEY have some kind of program running, when we must deny what we see, hear and feel for the sake of "peace and goodwill," life and the relationship is deteriorating and out of control.

In the mind of the individual who is thinking with emotional energy or sexual/moving center energy, the person who is running false personality programs and so on, there is the conviction that what they are doing is being "right" and "good" and "doing their duty as they perceive it" and so on. But essentially, they are only trying to cope with their own lack of inner control (unable to resist the negative introject that runs their life also known as programs/buffers) by trying to control another.

Recognizing these dynamics is "seeing the dragon."

Okay, I'm not going to talk about this so much in terms of pathology in this post because that is not what we are dealing with right here. We are talking about people who at least "see the dragon" and know that they must deal with it.

So, we come back to honest communication, external considering ever and internal considering never.

Isn't that something of a contradiction?

Not really. If BOTH partners are equally sincere in their efforts to see that the dragons are slain, the external considering of one will act FOR the other. It will become a sort of objective internal considering. Get that? It's subtle and tricky, but important.

Okay, so the two people are embarked on engaging intellectually to really get to know one another. If they can go a certain distance and realize that they really want to become more intellectually intimate, this is what leads to emotional engagement and the desire and ability to help one another slay dragons, etc.

So, the minds join (and this may be a function of the context of meeting assuming that both are equally sincere in their reason for being present in the context) and THEN the emotions begin to engage... and here is where the battles with dragons are fought.

The energy goes from the head to the heart, so to say.

It is after the period of engagement with the dragons and bringing the emotional natures together that one can then consider it appropriate to "commit/marry".

Keep in mind that sex is a bonding experience on many levels. It is not always true, but MOST often, problems arise because the proper order is not followed. If sex comes first, you end up bonding in a way that is not healthy. Or you bond with someone that you ought not to bond with, only you don't figure this out for a long time - when the "glue" of the bond wears off by the agitation of the unbonded (and unbondable) emotional and intellectual centers. I’ll have more to say about this in relation to psychopathy in another post.

So, to recap: one soul meets another, the two souls make themselves known to one another via true communication and this creates a REAL emotional bond, and from there, the energy spreads and the body can be properly set on fire for the fusion of true love where the two people grow together day by day until they are no longer two, but one.

Becoming one is not just self-integration... it can be the union of souls where the communication is the means of the completion - communication on ALL levels: intellectual, emotional, physical which then leads to the birth of the spiritual One.

As the Cs described it: "I am become One, Creator of Worlds."
 
What I mean to say is if you go somewhere for a pure and true interest and you HAPPEN to meet someone else in that venue who is also there for similar honest reasons, that is, they have not come there for the express (even if hidden) purpose of "meeting someone", then at least you have the possibility of having something in common.

Hope that's clear.


Or, do what you love/like to do, and 'quit looking for a partner'. Is that close to what you mean, over simplified?

I met my husband that way. :)
 
What a precious and usefull thread! Thank you so much Laura and the other members.

Ever since i first started to grasp concepts like the "warrior's path" of Castaneda or the "Work" of Gurdjieff, I immediately felt the value that these concepts hold as a way to that metaphoric "Knighthood", meaning the way to become a "Knight: worthy of the love/unity with an equally worthy "Princess" and also a way to become strong enough to fight the "dragons" that stand or will get in between...

Either from being a zodiac combination of Gemini-Scorpio :) or simply due to my romantic, and some times "foolishly idealistic" nature, i always had a strong urge to find and unite with my "other-half" but also strangely matched with the feeling that some "force" will be constantly trying to prevent that from happening. :/ And actually when i did meet the one who -i feel- was my "other-half", this strange "force of coincidences" did came crushing in the most bizarre ways. My frustration at that critical time against the feeling of being unable to overcome the internal and external "dragons" provided (and still does) for me a great lot of "internal heat" to tap, so the benefits from that experience were on the long run worth it. Fortunately, i was introduced to Castaneda's works and the warrior's concept prior to that event, and that provided a important "setting" to assimilate all that emotional energy creatively. That was more than ten years ago, and today i have some better yet still growing understanding of dynamics behind what happened. Put in a few words, sometimes it only takes a moment before you suddenly have to unhide and be the best "Knight in shinning armor" you can, but if you are not already ready and vigilant, then the chance will be gone since it takes more than just a moment to become a "Knight" out of thin air if you are not well-prepared the hard way beforehand...

But, Laura's insight in her post sets the equation right: The psychopaths appear to mis-use some originally positive tactics and traits which they "caricaturize" while using them to feed their needs and Self. If that sounds "simple" to you now, it was quite a revelation for me to realize it when i read it... So to continue the metaphor, there are not only "Knights" and "non-knights" may i say, there are also "false-Knights". And since the "false" might be even more than the "real" ones (since i do not know if the corresponding 6-8% of the souled male population has that a high degree of esoteric evolution to be called a "Knight"), we have a genuinely positive model of behaviour for expressing interest, care and affection being corrupted by it's misuse by the psychopaths... If we add to this our culture's submission to money, and it's becoming the main means of judging people, we have all the ingredients to explain the current plight and unhappiness of the world... If only we could be given a chance to explore the possibilities that are presented to a soul-matched couple in terms of attaining a critical amount of Love-Light-Knowledge during this 3rd density life! :rolleyes:

As Mouravieff wrote in Gnosis :

Gnosis vol.I said:
"This absolute-Love is accessible to the human soul even here. However,
neither man nor woman can reach it separately. It is only
accessible to a couple, and on the condition of a conscious and total
integration of both into a single Being by a synthesis of the real 'I' and
'You' who have had the strength to break the crust of their respective
Personalities. In practice, this can only happen when the two
Personalities are already very advanced, and both rich with the exper-
ience that each has separately acquired in exterior life. "

But i really have to thank Laura for is the reminder:
Laura said:
In short, it seems to me that what psychopaths do WORKS because they have observed women and know what to do to lure and capture them. And this works because these women have a certain "something" inside them that is looking for a REAL love and they mistake the caricature for the real because they are ignorant of the facts of psychopathy. They don't realize that they have "spiritual love binding sites" that can be bound by a "drug" (i.e. the psychopath) which does not act in the way the real neurochemical would act (i.e. the true spiritual love from a man who can GIVE and receive true love.)

This idea raises a lot of issues, not the least of which is what genuinely spiritual men need to do to get over their hang-ups and learn to give on all levels: mentally, emotionally, physically and spiritually; and women who need to learn how to distinguish the true from the false.

:)
 
This is really a charged period to me, and many clues are coming from here and here in a funny way. I was struggling two nights ago with the concept of the dragon and of saving the princess and inner Work. Trying to rely the dots about inner-self and outer world (some would suggest microcosm and macrocosm considerations but I'm not sure it will apply at my sorry level). I've always "knew" that I was a romantic boy by construction. Even during my adolescence when I totally closed myself to emotions in an attempt to protect inner world. Last week was my xxth birthday and fortunately I was sick. That gives you time to read, think and meditate and this subject came to mind. In Mouravieff's Gnosis it is designated I think as the 5th Way.

I would like at this point ask two little (stupid? :/) questions :

- True Love as described in this thread is the idea one can have about STO dynamics. Healing self through 4th Way, own dragons, then in case one meets a soul who also slained her own dragons through 4th way, help each other to slain the other dragons through 5th way? In a word, the 4th way as a preparation to the 5th STO way where every one gives to the other rather then the imbalanced relationships where one or both takes from the other? Creative energy of giving to the other is at the benefit of both. Is it a possible way to understand it?

- When we speak about a soulmate here. What is it exactly? Is it that idea that every soul has only one soulemate somewhere in spacetime? Or is it that every person with a soul and having enough sincerity and courage to engage in a true love relationship could be the good one? (I am conscious that this question is extremely naive but I really need to know :/ ).
 
Hi mkrnhr

I don't think your questions are stupid, infact I think there quite important.
I'm unable to answer them directly (I realise I need to go away and do some reading/learning on the ideas, to be able to come back and even attempt to answer them), but I do know of 3 threads that may be good starting point to those questions, as they have discussed very similar questions within them.

Can doing THE WORK in a non-collinear relationship be TRUE LOVE?
Marital conflict, children and the work
Sex and the Work
 
Perhaps it would be useful for everyone for us to get some quotes from Sandra Brown's two books, "How to Spot a Dangerous Man" and "Women Who Love Psychopaths" in here? Hopefully, everyone has a copy of both.
 
Is love relationship neccesary for work ? Or one can go 4th way without it ?

Reason i ask, i see women through eyes of a dog, and it does not feel right to be in any relationship while my vision is twisted.

Thank you very much with posts on this topic. It is inspirational.
 
Laura said:
Perhaps it would be useful for everyone for us to get some quotes from Sandra Brown's two books, "How to Spot a Dangerous Man" and "Women Who Love Psychopaths" in here? Hopefully, everyone has a copy of both.

There are many valuable quotes to be found in WWLP.

For me the most shocking idea in this book was the literal destruction of some of the most brilliant women by the psychopaths.

People could think that only naive, pathological, ignorant women fall in the psychopaths trap (as often claimed by the ones who blame the victim and point that the woman, because of her weakness, triggered the psychopath behaviour.

Almost every psychopath at some point has accused his woman of being just as sick as he is. He is the Master Projector projecting his own pathology onto others. Nearly every woman indicated he had told her that she is the one who is pathological or mentally ill and since she is so sick, no one else would ever want her.
Additionally, many counselors have wondered the same thing and have chosen to focus on the woman’s “assumed” pathology because she fell into a relationship with one of the sickest types of men. In some rare cases, there is mutual pathology. That means both the woman and the psychopath
have permanent personality disorders. Out of the 75 women we surveyed, only two seemed to have major personality pathology!

So WWLP are not pathological, quite the opposite actually. They're not introverted and look for fun. They are actually full of life, they love life (at least before meeting a psychopath).

p.24 said:
We've heard that “opposites attract” which means that an extravert can be attracted to an introvert.
This isn't true with psychopaths and their women, which makes extraversion an important concept to remember. Two extroverts are intensely attracted to one another. Since extroverts are action oriented, both of them are likely to act on this intense attraction.
Interestingly, this is the only major trait that the psychopath's woman shares with the psychopath
the issue of extraversion and excitement seeking. This is the attraction, the hookup factor, and the issue upon which their dating relationship was based, the exciting extroverted life they both want to live!

Here is the root of the fake love, the drug ligand, instead of pursuing real love, WWLP are seeking excitement (no doubt modern societies that keep promoting entertainment, excitement, experiences make women even more vulnerable to the psychopaths' trap)

In addition to their liveliness, WWLP score very high in motherly values like empathy, tolerance, friendliness, compassion that are strong indicators of conscience/soul.

p.46 said:
Temperament Traits of the WWLP

Excitement Seeking Total Moderately High
NS1-Exploratory Excitability High
Relationship
Investment Total High

RD1-Sentimentality High
RD3-Attachment High
RD4-Dependence High
Harm Avoidance Total Mixed
HA1-Anticipatory Worry Moderately High
Cooperativeness (C) Total High
C1-Social Acceptance High
C2-Empathy High
C3-Helpfulness High
C4-Compassion High


So WWLP are usually brilliant, full of potential, they are some of the mother goddess representative that our world needs so much to heal.

Then why do they fall into this trap ?

p.37 said:
The obvious question is, If she's empathic why didn't she know what she was feeling from the psychopath was fake?” As strong as her quality is as a genuine empath, it is no match for the con artist psychopath. The ability to make an empathic feel strongly about his false stories is probably no more shocking than how psychopaths con psychiatrists and other forensic professionals who are supposed to know what psychopathic behavior is all about. Unfortunately, the psychopath is smarter than we are empathic and he can abuse absolutely any positive trait that will benefit the con he is involved in.

Here is a fundamental cause of the drama : the psychopath's cunnigness is stronger than WWLP empathy.

WWLP having found someone smarter than they are empathic are ready to get under the spell of the psychopath. Actually the psychopath is not only smart, his power of seduction seems almost supernatural.

Nothing about genuine love here but an amazing strong chemistry, a kind of crack+cocaine+heroin ligand that totally takes control of the victim who is sure to live the perfect love.

p.68 said:
Many women tell us that psychopaths have a different feel to them. The psychopath is not only charming, engaging and skillful at keeping the relationship pace at a gallop, but he also sends off the most sensual vibes. However, what women think is chemistry is really the intensity of his pathological attachment (see Chapter 7). The chemistry with an extroverted psychopath feels new, different and exciting. It piques women's curiosity. They want to understand how and why this guy is different from the rest. After all, they too are excitement seeking extroverts and surely want to get to know this man who is new and unique. There is no doubt that the attachment and intense chemistry felt with a psychopath is universal. Almost all of the women described in detail the unusual
bond they felt that they didn't really understand. Some felt it instantly:

“We seemed to have this incredible immediate chemistry.”
“He had me at hello…”
“It was instant chemistry. It was the way he looked at me. He had such an energy. “
“We had an instant bond. He was just like me.”
Some felt the chemistry was trance-inducing or magical:
“I thought he was odd but unique. It felt different.”
“He would tell me that I worked magic over him as if he was acting against his own will.”
He told me I had him under my spell, which the truth is it felt like I was the one under some kind of spell.”
Some used eye gazing:
“He had the most intense eye contact and bonding.”
Some used the general public to validate their strong connection:
“He told me that when he walked into a room with me, everyone was jealous of our connection.”
Others used sexual seduction techniques:
“He teased me sexually at first and withheld so I would feel amorous towards him. He was quite charming and his seduction was a very strong drug that got me hooked instantly.”
Some women noticed the intensity of the attraction or chemistry:
“We had this incredible attraction to each other. It was horrible and wonderful all at the same time.”
We just seemed to connect.”
“I found him so attractive in many ways. He knew that and exploited it.”
“I tried to stay away from him but…”
“I thought he was the man of my dreams—we had so much in common, hit it off right away and just felt really connected to him.”

Once the bond is there, once the honey moon is over, the psychopaths start to literally destroy their victims. One could think WWLP only experience the usual damages linked to a normal break-up, the truth is far more darker.

p.78 said:
“You feel trapped constantly in some weird kind of game that you didn’t ever want to play in the first place. You know you’ll never be the same again. You see who you were just evaporate.”

p.97 said:
A relationship with a psychopathic man is not like any other failed relationship. The women who loved psychopaths are not just bitter women scorned. It is simply not possible to have a relationship
with a psychopath and not be harmed and damaged to a significant degree.

Damaged generated by psychopaths are severe, long lasting and affect any field :

p.87 said:
Percent with Symptom Type of harm reported (yes or no)
95 Emotional
85 Psychological
71 Financial
67 Career
51 Sexual
51 Physical
26 Other Harm

financial/professionnal life :

p.90 said:
I lost my home because of all the refinances we did to tide us over while we waited for his purported
funds to appear. He took a loan out in my name on my solely owned personal property by having a neighbor pretend to be me.”
“He freely spent over $40K of my life savings and earnings.”
When I met this man, I only owed money for graduate school loans. Now, I owe a massive amount in credit card debts, for a car payment, and more. He ‘robbed Peter to pay Paul’ and kept it hidden from me. It’s amazing that with $1200 less per month, I somehow manage to pay all my bills on time and am paying my debt down. When he was here, we could never make ends come close to meeting.”
He took all the money we had. When his credit was no good anymore he forced me to ruin mine. He allowed our house to foreclose. And while we were in the marriage he constantly chose fun over bills, putting us in a precarious financial situation that I am now going to have to file bankruptcy because of.”

psychological life :

p.89 said:
“It really destroyed my self-esteem. My emotional and mental energy has been consumed by trying to make sense of it all and figure out how to heal from it. I am not all there yet, but I work on it daily.”
“Again...finding out the man you loved did not ever exist...that the single man who was pursuing you with an ‘honorable’ intent was actually married...Those things ...that type of betrayal messes with your heart, mind and spirit.”
Has affected my energy level and ability to focus. I haven’t concentrated on endeavors to increase my income (although I really need to). I am just drained by trying to process all of this.”

physical harm :
p.91 said:
“This relationship has taken a grave physical toll on my body. I have several conditions. I look about 20 years older than I actually am. This relationship has taken a grave physical toll on my body. I have several conditions. I look about 20 years older than I actually am. It has also ruined me financially. If it were not for my 22 year old daughter, I would be homeless.”

When I finished reading this book an horrific idea haunted me for months.

Our world so desperately needs to develop the feminine values of compassion, empathy, understanding, tolerance.

Meanwhile women, and some of them in particular, are the privileged carrier of this potential but ironically they also are the favourite preys of the psychopaths.

Once into their claws they will be literally destroyed and it will take years for them to recover and be able to bring their exceptional potential into this world on the verge of destruction that need them so much.

Our dear 4th density lords couldn't have designed a more cunning scenario.
 
pg47 said:
What is the “pull” of attraction and how does it catch our attention? Studies of attraction reveal women are most attracted to masculine characteristics that are indicators of high testosterone. These characteristics are physical and behavioral. Men high in testosterone advertise this fact to women through their “manly” appearance and dominant actions. Some believe that women’s attraction to these features is evolutionary, that for a woman to sustain the species she subconsciously was attracted to and mated with the strongest males. Testosterone makes a man’s face rugged and his muscles strong and bulky and causes him to be assertive and dominant. Testosterone is also responsible for men’s sex drives, motivating men to seek sex partners.

Trying to apply this to the broader picture, we can see that Guru's, religious and political leaders have that same 'dominant' aspect. They're confident, bold, assertive. "We are good, They are bad." and this gives their followers something to 'bind' too. It's as Laura describes above, the drug or caricature takes the place of the real and you have similar affects. Devotion, willingness to obey orders, etc. Because this is false however the individual is unable to truly grow from the experience and either remains the same or stagnates - taking on the characteristics of their pathological idol.

Testosterone increases a man’s energy level, sensation seeking and impulsivity all of which are related to the extraversion and excitement seeking we discussed in Chapters 3 and 5. As we mentioned
before, these traits in men are very attractive to some women but also, unfortunately, high energy, extraversion and impulsivity are traits associated with psychopathy.

Since all of these attraction-based traits are found in psychopaths, we can see why psychopaths have an easy time attracting women. Since a strong sexual attraction creates impulsiveness, and most women register their level of attraction for a man within seconds of meeting him, this creates a very high risk situation! A few fleeting seconds are not enough to screen out dangerous but highly attractive psychopaths.

The same can be said for ideology or for 'leaders', they're extraverted, exciting to listen to, and they seem to know just what to say in order to get their flock to follow them off a cliff.

After the attraction phase has begun, emotional and physical intimacy creates a love bond. In the early stages of intimacy building, verbal sharing of feelings and ideas lay the foundation of the love bond. Men high in psychopathic traits don’t have the normal spectrum of emotions so they compensate by being great talkers. A range of intense emotions generally makes normal men less talkative because they feel inhibited by these emotions. Men usually don’t cope with emotions by sharing them the way women do. Women then tend to read the psychopath’s sharing of “emotions” in a positive light. Psychopaths are known for their “gift of gab” from which their charm and charisma flow. Women often think they have hit the jackpot with the psychopath because they are used to inhibited normal men, who don’t talk much about their feelings. But along comes the loose-tongued psychopath who can charm her with the flowery language of love. Sharing of feelings, talking, and early eye-gazing are the beginning phases of creating the woman’s love bond. The more they talk, share feelings, spend time together, and make intense eye contact, the deeper she will attach.

And so it goes... the longer one is exposed to a tainted ideology the more one 'believes'. I've seen it myself, most notably with born again Christians. The more they listen to their talk radio, read their literature and absorb it directly from the pulpit the more they hear their ideology's or leader's take on things. Soon they discover they have an answer for everything! Only, in reality, their answers are full of holes but when one is enamored one cannot see them and fills them in oneself, subconsciously. Tons of subconscious substitution and selection takes place and before you know it the individual is behaving pathologically all the while believing they are doing 'God's will' or 'Saving the world'.

Psychopaths are highly sexual. Since they are attractive both physically (with their masculine testosterone) and emotionally (with their verbal sharing), they don’t have trouble getting women to have sex with them—often within hours of the first meeting. Many women say they were shocked how quickly they had sex with the psychopath—violating their own normal standard set for sexual practices. Both an “almost animalistic attraction” and “a sensing she intimately knew him” seemed to fuel her rapid sense of attachment to him.

And I'd say the same for ideologies. Of course some leaders or guru's do have sex with their students, Pepin being a case in point, which makes the analogy literal in a creepy sort of way. But I've seen christians who are obsessed with the bible, or radically defend it's premises and their interpretations of the text, all the while ignoring the possibility for multiple interpretations or the scientific evidence (Reason) that demonstrates it to be falsified and distorted, not to mention the best selling thought-control to come down through the millenia. Heck, I've even been quoted at by a essay called 'The Cult of Reason' - talk about irony!

So we see that when the sex center is involved, especially abuse of its energies, normal people will follow an insane agenda of genocide (Gaza) and justify it with all sort of nonsense as long as it comes from an ideological source or a leader they've bonded with.

Scary. :/

Edit: An interesting after-thought, Gaza and Zionist Apologists was on my mind before, now I'm pondering what will happen if Obama goes over to the dark side - think of all the people who have bonded to him.
 
Notice this in particular:

WWLP said:
After the attraction phase has begun, emotional and physical intimacy creates a love bond. In the early stages of intimacy building, verbal sharing of feelings and ideas lay the foundation of the love bond. Men high in psychopathic traits don’t have the normal spectrum of emotions so they compensate by being great talkers. A range of intense emotions generally makes normal men less talkative because they feel inhibited by these emotions. Men usually don’t cope with emotions by sharing them the way women do. Women then tend to read the psychopath’s sharing of “emotions” in a positive light. Psychopaths are known for their “gift of gab” from which their charm and charisma flow. Women often think they have hit the jackpot with the psychopath because they are used to inhibited normal men, who don’t talk much about their feelings. But along comes the loose-tongued psychopath who can charm her with the flowery language of love. Sharing of feelings, talking, and early eye-gazing are the beginning phases of creating the woman’s love bond. The more they talk, share feelings, spend time together, and make intense eye contact, the deeper she will attach.

This is the key to what I was writing about above: the intellectual center is engaged and the potential lovers come to know one another deeply via communication. The psychopath totally fakes this phase with lies and a mask.

That then fires up the emotional center.... which kicks the moving/sex center into gear and off they go.

It's actually worse than having a relationship with an ordinary person who is just physically attractive. In this latter case, when the physical attraction wears off, that's it, finis, over, sayonara. It hurts some, but it doesn't feel like your soul has been eaten.

With the psychopath, the woman has been engaged on all three levels IN THE CORRECT ORDER. But it is all based on fraud, lies, imitation, mimicry.

I think that there is something about this order of engagement that we need to pay attention to.

As for the "risk taking correlate," I'm not sure that this is exactly what it appears to be. In the case of the psychopath, they take risks not so much because they have high testosterone but because they have a LACK of fear of consequences, a lack of imagination of consequences and future. In the case of the women involved, it may relate more to having an imagination and also being generally courageous, keeping in mind that courage is not lack of fear, but rather doing things in spite of fear. I think that this aspect should have been broken down and examined more carefully, but that's really a minor issue.

What we see with the "normal guys" who are inhibited is that their fear controls them. A woman who is courageous and is not controlled by her fears (even if she has them) may find it difficult to respect a man who is controlled by emotional inhibitions. That is the problem of the intellect usurping the energy of the emotional center - men whose thinking is controlled by their damaged and/or undeveloped emotions.

Yes, indeed, normal men are at a very distinct disadvantage in comparison with the psychopath who creates the illusion of a guy whose mind is not entrapped by his neuroses.

But what if sincere guys, guys with heart and a lot to offer, could learn to get over their neuroses and perform this evolutionarily programmed courting process properly and with truth and honor?
 
And then we also have pathologically narcissitic and narcissistically wounded men to consider. Some can appear quite charming, much like the psychopath, and they may exhibit similar traits such as lack of fear, assertiveness, excitement seeking and a love of talking about themselves and their feelings.
 
Glad to see this thread after just reading the book WWLP. I found that Chapter 6 Her Characteristics presented a lot of valid information about how a woman’s character traits can be a risk factor in attracting psychopaths. Reading the detailed descriptions of the character traits of women who end up with psychopathic men paints a picture of what a psychopath looks for in a potential mate (victim). Knowing that a psychopath lacks empathy, my line of thinking is that psychopaths seek out these empathic, cooperative traits as a means of becoming a better mimic, or learning how to act out these emotions in order to dominate the women they seek to feed off of. The passages from the book listed below may make it clear what I am trying to share.
From WWLP Page 56
Her Cooperativeness
“The set of cooperation-based traits of the TCI shows us how she sees herself as an integral part of human society. When we are cooperative, we use the traits of empathy/compassion so we understood how someone else feels, tolerance so we can manage differences, friendliness so that we are approachable, supportiveness so we contribute with helpfulness and moral principals of life so we can choose between right and wrong, good and bad…These traits are at the heart of who she is and are what makes her selfless and other-person oriented. They are also what makes her a flashing billboard for psychopaths.”

Belibaste Wrote: So WWLP are usually brilliant, full of potential, they are some of the mother goddess representative that our world needs so much to heal. Then why do they fall into this trap?

I would guess that many women are looking for a mate that may have the same character traits. Nurturing qualities that she possess, as those listed above, and in her search for the ideal mate, she assumes that because a psychopath can be talkative, outgoing and sharing, she misunderstands or misinterprets his ‘acting’ as sincerity.

From WWLP Page 60
Empathy
Empath’s are often very affectionate in personality and expression, great listeners and counselors (and not just in the professional arena). They will find themselves helping others and often putting their own needs aside to do so. They are highly expressive in all areas of emotional connection and talk openly, and, at times, quite frankly about themselves.
Women who are tested this high in empathy may have been raised by adults or parents who are pathological and or addicted. Children raised by narcissists and psychopaths learn early how to cater to the needs of the pathological parent in order to avoid punishment or wrath.”

In this passage it is apparent that if women have suffered wounding and trauma as a result of living in a pathological/narcissistic environment they become pleasers and subject their own well being to meet the needs of others. The psychopath is aware of this as he seeks out just this type of wounded women. And over a period of time he begins to use her strengths to fulfill his own selfish desires.
From WWLP Page 61
Empathy as a risk factor
Empathy has made her a sensitive partner, a good listener, and a target for psychopaths. She has more empathy than 97% of everyone else, so she can put herself in a psychopaths shoes with genuine concern. Her empathy is like a drug that the psychopath uses to feed his need for power and dominance. Although she may not realize it, the psychopath doesn’t need her empathy, but uses it to maintain power over her emotions and dominance over the relationship. This could be said for any of her temperament or character traits-they are tools and weapons in the hand of a psychopath

These passages really struck a familiar chord, as did much of the book. After reading the work of Sandra Brown and even purchasing the workbook, I am beginning to have a better understanding of how strong, independent, loving and intelligent women end up being food for the psychopath. In addition I am beginning to understand how empathy can be a risk factor and how the psychopath can utilize the feminine creative energy for his own feeding purposes. Which ultimately leads to the women being drained and confused as to what exactly she is dealing with. :shock:
 
Very interesting Laura.

Yes LOVE BOMBING to promote a feeling of bondedness and thus mind control.
Happens every single time.
 
Thank you for starting this thread, Laura and to all who have contributed. It is very rich and offers much to think about.

I love the knight image you used here to describe the model.

Laura said:
The Knightly ideal seems to be a good model: There are dragons imprisoning the princess in the tower and the knight must slay them, but he needs SOME help from the Princess who must give him certain information to help him. Then, once he has freed her from the tower, she must help him rest and recover or even heal wounds received in the battle with HER dragon.

In terms of WWLP, though, I am reminded of a different, more imbalanced version of the knightly ideal. ;) An inverse of the archetype is humorously depicted in Robert Muncsh's children's book, The Paper Bag Princess. In this story, a dragon comes and steals the prince away instead of the princess and then burns down the princess' castle and all the her beautiful clothes. Princess Elizabeth, now forced to dress in a paper bag, is determined to save her prince and undertakes the task of rescuing Prince Ronald by outsmarting the dragon. When she finally reaches the prince to free him after many harrowing escapes, he takes one look at her messy appearance and his psychopathy reveals itself. With zero gratitude he says, " Elizabeth, you are a mess! You smell like ashes, your hair is all tangled and you are wearing a dirty old paper bag. Come back when you are dressed like a real princess" And Elizabeth replies, "Ronald, your clothes are really pretty and your hair is very neat. You look like a real prince, but you are a bum." And they didn't get married after all. Elizabeth was a smart girl but like other WWLP, it did take her a few dragons and a little time to realize just what the prince actually was.
 

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