Working with little I's

luc said:
I think what you wrote here is spot on. It is interesting to witness how cunning the predator's mind is: it will take a valid concept, such as that it's important to express our feelings and not bottle them up, and turn it into a rigid, black-and-white "law" that terrifies us, makes our mind race, and keeps us from seeing the specific situation for what it is. As Gurdjieff said - right or wrong are not absolute qualities, but it all depends on the specific situation. But with a mind clouded by black-and-white laws and tyrannical dictators, we can't figure it out; we can't give everything its due. "Magic" and "childish" thinking indeed!

And yes, I think your attitude of curiosity and sometimes even amusement at all those little I's is helpful - it helps us see them as the "zoo" that they are, and not judge everything so harshly. After all, they are not us, not the real "I"...
Yes. Exactly. Black & White thinking names those little i’s points of view precisely. Thanks for making that connection. It’s all very either/or thinking. I hadn’t seen that aspect previously.

A few mornings ago, the phrase ‘examine that’ popped up with respect to thoughts I was thinking. It occurred to me that to examine was similar, but not exactly the same, as ‘observe’. So I looked up both words in several online dictionaries . . . just to find out their differences and similarities.

My feeling was that observing my thoughts was actively passive (more neutral), while examining was more actively active. Both can help me to separate from identifying with those little i’s, but I noticed that just using the attitude of examining seemed to create more distance and separation than observing.

Observing feels more like just neutrally noticing something that exists. Examining feels more like being a scientist . . . as if I’m actively doing what’s defined in the dictionary definition of ‘examine’.
* * * * * *
So here are the definitions I found in all those online dictionaries.

OBSERVE: See * Watch * Perceive * Notice * View * Note * Examine

To be or become aware of, especially through careful and directed attention * To watch attentively * To watch or be present without participating actively * To watch or study someone or something with care & attention in order to discover something

EXAMINE: Inspect or scrutinize carefully

To observe, test, or investigate — especially in order to evaluate or determine * Inquire into or investigate * Interrogate or question * To look at something closely & carefully in order to learn more about it for signs of ________ * To look at someone or something in order to discover something about the person or thing * To look at or consider someone or something & in detail * To test someone or something * To consider in detail and subject to an analysis in order to discover essential features or meaning * To question thoroughly and closely * To observe carefully or critically * To inspect, study, analyze, investigate, scrutinize * To inspect carefully & thoroughly to determine the nature, condition of someone or something * To analyze, inspect or carefully study
* * * * * *

Well, don’t know if this helps anyone because it was only a little realization I had myself. Also, I don’t want to complicate the process of simply observing for other members here. So, FWIW.

Anyway, thank you luc for the initial post & your replies and thank you to other respondents and their feedback as well.

Recently, I’m Seeing that this networking thing is a really, really amazing opportunity for all of us to hone our skills at seeing so many things we’ve been missing. I’m especially thankful that others can spot my defects so well and help me see them too. That feels soooo valuable. Not because I want to be perfect. But because I want to be honest and real and not a hypocrite or a liar or believe in false self-evaluations. I see now that I actually have zero idea of who or what I really am . . . or how I’m perceived or viewed by others. It’s such a shock . . . but a wonderful shock. :)


Cheers. :)
 

Sparrowkin

The Force is Strong With This One
I know this thread is a bit old, but I wanted to share something anyway.

13 Twirling Triskeles said:
A few mornings ago, the phrase ‘examine that’ popped up with respect to thoughts I was thinking. It occurred to me that to examine was similar, but not exactly the same, as ‘observe’. So I looked up both words in several online dictionaries . . . just to find out their differences and similarities.

My feeling was that observing my thoughts was actively passive (more neutral), while examining was more actively active. Both can help me to separate from identifying with those little i’s, but I noticed that just using the attitude of examining seemed to create more distance and separation than observing.

Observing feels more like just neutrally noticing something that exists. Examining feels more like being a scientist . . . as if I’m actively doing what’s defined in the dictionary definition of ‘examine’.
* * * * * *
So here are the definitions I found in all those online dictionaries.

OBSERVE: See * Watch * Perceive * Notice * View * Note * Examine

To be or become aware of, especially through careful and directed attention * To watch attentively * To watch or be present without participating actively * To watch or study someone or something with care & attention in order to discover something

EXAMINE: Inspect or scrutinize carefully

To observe, test, or investigate — especially in order to evaluate or determine * Inquire into or investigate * Interrogate or question * To look at something closely & carefully in order to learn more about it for signs of ________ * To look at someone or something in order to discover something about the person or thing * To look at or consider someone or something & in detail * To test someone or something * To consider in detail and subject to an analysis in order to discover essential features or meaning * To question thoroughly and closely * To observe carefully or critically * To inspect, study, analyze, investigate, scrutinize * To inspect carefully & thoroughly to determine the nature, condition of someone or something * To analyze, inspect or carefully study
* * * * * *

Well, don’t know if this helps anyone because it was only a little realization I had myself. Also, I don’t want to complicate the process of simply observing for other members here. So, FWIW.


In my experience over the past few months I've come to see the world much differently than I did before, and I'm beginning to have an inkling of what Laura Knight Jadczyk may have meant with right brain observation, the whole lance and cup and the desolate wasteland, etc. I may have "understood" it in the book but it only became Real when I saw it with my eyes (including the inner eye). I saw that I had been sleeping so soundly, even when I joined this forum! I think its because I was so indoctrinated in that left brain, lock everything into nice, neat packages, everything in its place, everything delineated and detached from every thing else by its differences- style of experiencing.

So on to your post, you said FWIW and to me, its worth its weight in gold. Actively passive observation, as you put it, is to me the window to the phenomenal world, the world we are entrenched in. Actively active examination is most useful to me long after the events have taken place, and provide a tentative framework in which to make choices now, and in the future. I've been aware of this work for years, but honestly it has been no use to me except to slowly open my eyes. I see now that I was waiting for an "interval" or "rite of passage" before I could make use of what I was seeing. I was quite taken with the "little i's" of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky, but what I have found now is that those i's are not an enemy. They are the materials I have to work with and its actually easier for me to think of it more like "I did this and this, but I could have done that. I can do this, or I could do that." I spent a lot of years laughing at astrology and tarot because they seemed silly. Now I see them as a map of sorts and this works better for me than the Gurdjieff style work. I realize he was trying to shock people awake, and this has immense value, but what I gathered from his books make me think the rest of his process really required his actual presence, so I had to find my own Way.

Thank you to everyone who wrote in this thread. It is also Gold, for those who know about Real value. And thank you, 13 Twirling Triskeles for your valuable insight and "quotability." :D
 

Alix

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
Okay, I wanted to share some thoughts/approaches to the Work based on Gurdjieff's concept of "little I's" and my own experiences.

First I'd like to say that I think Gurdjieff's concept of "little I's" governing our thoughts, emotions and actions is very useful - even though we may get a more accurate and "scientific" picture of how our machine works using concepts like Kahnemann's System 1 and System 2 or Wilson's Adaptive Unconscious. To think of our mind as a kingdom of crazy and coward wanna-be dictators constantly battling each other to get to the throne and once there, get nothing done, is just very fruitful and a great analogy I think. That this is the state we live in becomes totally obvious once we start self-observing, and even more so once we start struggling against it, even just by trying to root out a minor habit.

So, here are G's own words describing this whole mess that is our mind:





Indeed. For example, at one point I decide to do something useful, like cleaning up or write on the forum. By the time the computer is on or I'm fetching the vacuum cleaner, there's a different I on the throne who likes to check out something on the internet. The next minute, there's an I on the throne who is lazy and wants to slack. Then I slack, and the next I gets control and hates slacking and makes a scene and starts whipping the whole kingdom, gets angry and irritable. And so on. Or, one "I" gets control which is interested in some topic for a week or two and makes everyone in the kingdom work on this single goal, forgetting everything else. Then, after two weeks, this I gets kicked off from the throne and a different, more balanced I takes control again and has to clean up the mess the other I produced - chores have been left undone, important goals have been forgotten... And on and on it goes.

So far, so bad. But what's really dangerous is that all these little I's are dependent on outside influences, of which we are unconscious. That way, external influences not only form those little I's in the first place (through education, experience, religious/secular beliefs etc.), they also control which little I enters the throne and when. Often, all it needs is a slight stimulus from outside to kick off one little I and have it replaced by another. And I think this is also the way the PTB control us - they know our machine better than we know it ourselves, and play us like a fiddle. They have created many little I's themselves (education, media, social structure etc.) and know how to trigger them.

In G's words:



So how to fight this? First, of course, we need to become conscious of the fact that this is indeed the state we live in. Self-observation and setting oneself a very modest aim (like breaking a minor habit) while fully committing to this small aim as if it was the most important thing in one's life can actually show how utterly true G's description is. In fact, in the beginning, we fail to achieve even the most ridiculous goal, like taking 5 seconds to do one little thing every day... So, how can we change? I think G's analogy of the house, servants and master can bring some light into this:



When I found the Work, I foolishly thought the goal was to root out all those nasty little I's, but this didn't work out of course, and the analogy of the house and the servants may yield some hints as to why: It just leads to apathy, to a shut-down of the house except for the bare minimum, and achieves nothing. Maybe this is a natural consequence of the shock we go through once realizing what a mess we are, and that this mess leads to constantly hurting other people, even the ones we pretend to care about. But it changes nothing. To begin to change, I think we have to work with what's there, and accept those little I's - study them, get to know them, and start conspiring with the better ones, or the "more sensible servants", in G's analogy. In other words - in our more conscious states, when we see that mess that is our machine clearly, we should try to make use of those little I's, rather than fighting all of them. In more modern terms, maybe this can be called self-accepting - not taking the "all or nothing" approach, but really feeling and accept "what is", and starting to make small changes based on this acceptance.

So for example, there's one servant who likes to read esoteric books, another one is interested in politics. Another one is very empathetic and enjoys being good to other people. So let's notice when they "take the throne" and encourage them. Make each of them get to know the other good servants and form a little group there. Make them oppose the nasty I's - those who dwell on grandiosity, those who are cruel, or those who love suffering for example. That way, even if one of the nasty little I's enters the throne and you loose yourself, the good ones - your little conspiracy - can notice this and fight them. Next time when a good guy takes control, and for example you read an interesting esoteric book or check on world politics, you can remember how you lost yourself and remember the particular feeling associated with it, and can try to stop it next time it happens. That is, the good servants may restrain the power of some of the nastiest servants, and eventually succeed in arresting them. Cut the ties to those psychos and make it common knowledge in your house that they are the bad guys!

But rooting out the most horrible servants/little I's is just the beginning - at this point, we still have no real control. I think what we have to do then is to work with the rest of the servants, who still want all to sit on the throne and fight each other, even though most of them agreed to arrest the psycho-servants. So now, the goal can be to bring in the deputy steward - make those servants do their job. For example, the guy who likes esoteric books should be allowed to read those books, but only at specific times, and he should give a lecture to the whole house when he finds out something. But he's not supposed to interfere with the functioning of the house. That is, the guy who works in the kitchen should be able to do his job, even without forcing his way on the throne. The deputy steward sees to that. In real life, this means for example that you put the right amount of energy into your job and your chores at home, while also allowing time for reading and studying, and finding a good balance. I think this is achieved mainly by making simple, not very demanding plans and sticking to them - which is hard enough.

I guess what I'm getting at is that at one point maybe instead of viewing our little I's as enemies, we should view them as players in an orchestra, or our employees - they are not good or bad per se, but they are controlled by external influences without a conductor or manager. We can practice becoming good conductors/managers by setting ourselves small tasks that we know another little I hates, and force it to do it anyway. For example, if I'm in the "mood" to do some physical exercises, I sometimes don't do it and plan it for a later time in the day. And while I'm looking forward to this at the moment, I know full well that on the later hour, there will be another little I in charge, who probably hates doing exercises. But since I know this, I can withstand this guy and assign him another task for another time, and eventually win - or at least see what's going on. Another example would be that there is a little I "on the throne" which is very enthusiastic about something, even obsessive. So instead of fighting it, I can say "well, here you are, now get something done!", and make the guy use his enthusiasm to actually do something useful. This is what a good manager would do.

Another example: There's one little I in me who is somehow identified with my job. Now, one other little I, the one reading esoteric books, thinks this is totally ridiculous, and the job total BS. Well, he is right with the BS, but he shouldn't keep the other guy from earning my living! So a good manager would tell the esoteric guy to be quiet when there's work to be done, and tells the job-obsessed guy that he should stick to what he's good at and make room for others once the job is done.

It also helps to just self-observe the little I's and their fighting. For example, the other day I drove home and I thought about what to do with 2 hours "free time" I would have in the evening. And I could literally feel two different little I's fighting for that spot! It felt really draining, but I recognized what's going on and so could stop it. In the past, this would have been a moment where I would have been very irritated and would have snapped at other people and become angry at others, all the while inventing a narrative to explain it. Different little I's being at war for the throne are a really draining thing!

So maybe learning to get at least some control over our crazy madhouse is the stage of G's "deputy steward" - we practice getting those I's halfway under control, doing what "it" doesn't like, set ourselves small aims, and then increase the difficulty of those aims. But when does the real master come? I think the arrival of the master could be what the C's described as the "awakening of our conscience". It's really only then that the whole house is transformed into something useful, something with a purpose. In my case, I think I had glimpses of that master, he visits from time to time and makes everyone feel his presence, but these are just glimpses yet. In other words, I feel that sometimes I'm really in touch with my conscience, but oftentimes it is shielded from me with all kinds of buffers. But I'm best when I'm truly feeling for others - then I DO things, not because I press myself using sheer willpower, but because I feel deep down that it's the right thing to do, and there is no other choice, and that's the way it should be.

Anyway, just wanted to share these thoughts, I hope this makes sense. Any feedback welcome.
This is a wonderful description of what goes on in my head when it comes to making sure that the little "I" that's supposed to exercise that day or the little "I" that needs to clean the bathroom balk. It seems I need to gather some like-minded "I"s to 'set up the house' in good working order. Thank you for this! :thup:
 

Odin

Jedi
Okay, I wanted to share some thoughts/approaches to the Work based on Gurdjieff's concept of "little I's" and my own experiences.

First I'd like to say that I think Gurdjieff's concept of "little I's" governing our thoughts, emotions and actions is very useful - even though we may get a more accurate and "scientific" picture of how our machine works using concepts like Kahnemann's System 1 and System 2 or Wilson's Adaptive Unconscious. To think of our mind as a kingdom of crazy and coward wanna-be dictators constantly battling each other to get to the throne and once there, get nothing done, is just very fruitful and a great analogy I think. That this is the state we live in becomes totally obvious once we start self-observing, and even more so once we start struggling against it, even just by trying to root out a minor habit.

So, here are G's own words describing this whole mess that is our mind:





Indeed. For example, at one point I decide to do something useful, like cleaning up or write on the forum. By the time the computer is on or I'm fetching the vacuum cleaner, there's a different I on the throne who likes to check out something on the internet. The next minute, there's an I on the throne who is lazy and wants to slack. Then I slack, and the next I gets control and hates slacking and makes a scene and starts whipping the whole kingdom, gets angry and irritable. And so on. Or, one "I" gets control which is interested in some topic for a week or two and makes everyone in the kingdom work on this single goal, forgetting everything else. Then, after two weeks, this I gets kicked off from the throne and a different, more balanced I takes control again and has to clean up the mess the other I produced - chores have been left undone, important goals have been forgotten... And on and on it goes.

So far, so bad. But what's really dangerous is that all these little I's are dependent on outside influences, of which we are unconscious. That way, external influences not only form those little I's in the first place (through education, experience, religious/secular beliefs etc.), they also control which little I enters the throne and when. Often, all it needs is a slight stimulus from outside to kick off one little I and have it replaced by another. And I think this is also the way the PTB control us - they know our machine better than we know it ourselves, and play us like a fiddle. They have created many little I's themselves (education, media, social structure etc.) and know how to trigger them.

In G's words:



So how to fight this? First, of course, we need to become conscious of the fact that this is indeed the state we live in. Self-observation and setting oneself a very modest aim (like breaking a minor habit) while fully committing to this small aim as if it was the most important thing in one's life can actually show how utterly true G's description is. In fact, in the beginning, we fail to achieve even the most ridiculous goal, like taking 5 seconds to do one little thing every day... So, how can we change? I think G's analogy of the house, servants and master can bring some light into this:



When I found the Work, I foolishly thought the goal was to root out all those nasty little I's, but this didn't work out of course, and the analogy of the house and the servants may yield some hints as to why: It just leads to apathy, to a shut-down of the house except for the bare minimum, and achieves nothing. Maybe this is a natural consequence of the shock we go through once realizing what a mess we are, and that this mess leads to constantly hurting other people, even the ones we pretend to care about. But it changes nothing. To begin to change, I think we have to work with what's there, and accept those little I's - study them, get to know them, and start conspiring with the better ones, or the "more sensible servants", in G's analogy. In other words - in our more conscious states, when we see that mess that is our machine clearly, we should try to make use of those little I's, rather than fighting all of them. In more modern terms, maybe this can be called self-accepting - not taking the "all or nothing" approach, but really feeling and accept "what is", and starting to make small changes based on this acceptance.

So for example, there's one servant who likes to read esoteric books, another one is interested in politics. Another one is very empathetic and enjoys being good to other people. So let's notice when they "take the throne" and encourage them. Make each of them get to know the other good servants and form a little group there. Make them oppose the nasty I's - those who dwell on grandiosity, those who are cruel, or those who love suffering for example. That way, even if one of the nasty little I's enters the throne and you loose yourself, the good ones - your little conspiracy - can notice this and fight them. Next time when a good guy takes control, and for example you read an interesting esoteric book or check on world politics, you can remember how you lost yourself and remember the particular feeling associated with it, and can try to stop it next time it happens. That is, the good servants may restrain the power of some of the nastiest servants, and eventually succeed in arresting them. Cut the ties to those psychos and make it common knowledge in your house that they are the bad guys!

But rooting out the most horrible servants/little I's is just the beginning - at this point, we still have no real control. I think what we have to do then is to work with the rest of the servants, who still want all to sit on the throne and fight each other, even though most of them agreed to arrest the psycho-servants. So now, the goal can be to bring in the deputy steward - make those servants do their job. For example, the guy who likes esoteric books should be allowed to read those books, but only at specific times, and he should give a lecture to the whole house when he finds out something. But he's not supposed to interfere with the functioning of the house. That is, the guy who works in the kitchen should be able to do his job, even without forcing his way on the throne. The deputy steward sees to that. In real life, this means for example that you put the right amount of energy into your job and your chores at home, while also allowing time for reading and studying, and finding a good balance. I think this is achieved mainly by making simple, not very demanding plans and sticking to them - which is hard enough.

I guess what I'm getting at is that at one point maybe instead of viewing our little I's as enemies, we should view them as players in an orchestra, or our employees - they are not good or bad per se, but they are controlled by external influences without a conductor or manager. We can practice becoming good conductors/managers by setting ourselves small tasks that we know another little I hates, and force it to do it anyway. For example, if I'm in the "mood" to do some physical exercises, I sometimes don't do it and plan it for a later time in the day. And while I'm looking forward to this at the moment, I know full well that on the later hour, there will be another little I in charge, who probably hates doing exercises. But since I know this, I can withstand this guy and assign him another task for another time, and eventually win - or at least see what's going on. Another example would be that there is a little I "on the throne" which is very enthusiastic about something, even obsessive. So instead of fighting it, I can say "well, here you are, now get something done!", and make the guy use his enthusiasm to actually do something useful. This is what a good manager would do.

Another example: There's one little I in me who is somehow identified with my job. Now, one other little I, the one reading esoteric books, thinks this is totally ridiculous, and the job total BS. Well, he is right with the BS, but he shouldn't keep the other guy from earning my living! So a good manager would tell the esoteric guy to be quiet when there's work to be done, and tells the job-obsessed guy that he should stick to what he's good at and make room for others once the job is done.

It also helps to just self-observe the little I's and their fighting. For example, the other day I drove home and I thought about what to do with 2 hours "free time" I would have in the evening. And I could literally feel two different little I's fighting for that spot! It felt really draining, but I recognized what's going on and so could stop it. In the past, this would have been a moment where I would have been very irritated and would have snapped at other people and become angry at others, all the while inventing a narrative to explain it. Different little I's being at war for the throne are a really draining thing!

So maybe learning to get at least some control over our crazy madhouse is the stage of G's "deputy steward" - we practice getting those I's halfway under control, doing what "it" doesn't like, set ourselves small aims, and then increase the difficulty of those aims. But when does the real master come? I think the arrival of the master could be what the C's described as the "awakening of our conscience". It's really only then that the whole house is transformed into something useful, something with a purpose. In my case, I think I had glimpses of that master, he visits from time to time and makes everyone feel his presence, but these are just glimpses yet. In other words, I feel that sometimes I'm really in touch with my conscience, but oftentimes it is shielded from me with all kinds of buffers. But I'm best when I'm truly feeling for others - then I DO things, not because I press myself using sheer willpower, but because I feel deep down that it's the right thing to do, and there is no other choice, and that's the way it should be.

Anyway, just wanted to share these thoughts, I hope this makes sense. Any feedback welcome.
Like others have said, what you wrote here is incredible, luc. Thank you so much!

I started on this thread quite late last night, maybe not the smartest thing to do :-) Your use of quotes from Gurdjieff and your own analogies were of great help. Just as you wrote I also think I have seen glimpses of the "master"(authentic and unified self?) but it does not last long.

I have been observing this madhouse before but see now that some(if not all) of the thoughts/feelings that I suspected were linked to the predator's mind might just as well be one of the little "I´s" in me. Your post gave me lots of things to work with and an insight that there is much more work to be done.

It also made me think of a session I had with a Zen Master, Nissim Amon some 10 years ago. He had developed a therapy called "Trilotherapy". The basic of it is to observe and have a dialog with your intellect and your heart. Then take the position of the "adult" and let your intellect and heart present their case on a given situation. Then you as the observer/adult would make the decision based on the feedback from both intellect and heart. It was a long time ago so maybe I have forgotten some details but it was a fascinating session.

Another thing that came to mind yesterday was the question of this situation with all the different "I`s". Is this a way for us to learn here in 3d or does the same apply in 4 and even 5d as well? I don't know.
 

Bernardo GA

The Force is Strong With This One
I thank Luc for sharing his creativity with us.
I feel fortunate to have read such an ingenious proposal, and timely for its level of application.
Too often, I find myself performing some task that I consider a priority, but fearful that I am taking time away from another task that I also consider a priority.
Being in that distressing situation, I think it will be less frequent, if I achieve a little order in the house.
I have not known how to achieve it, and this great idea has lifted my spirits and hopes.
Thank you Luc, and everyone on this very important thread. :thup:

Agradezco a Luc por compartir su creatividad con nosotros.
Me siento afortunado de haber leído esta propuesta tan ingeniosa, y oportuna por su nivel de aplicación.
Muy a menudo, me encuentro realizando alguna tarea que considero prioritaria, pero con miedo a estar ocupando el momento de otra tarea que también considero prioritaria.
Estar en esa situación angustiante, creo que será menos frecuente, si logro un poco de orden en la casa.
No he sabido cómo lograrlo, y esta idea genial me ha levantado el ánimo y las esperanzas.
Gracias Luc, y a todos en este hilo tan importante.
)
 

Bernardo GA

The Force is Strong With This One
Hello.
Again, I appreciate what everyone has shared about their own experiences in coping with themselves.
I don't know if what I can say will be useful, but I still want to tell you a little of what I have been thinking.
While we don't know exactly how it works, we have the information that the creation of our reality is related to our belief system.

Chu said:
Example nr. 3: "If I want to network about something but I'm afraid of being judged, I must post it and see what happens. If I don't try, I'll never know. A warrior is someone who acts in spite of his/her fear."

etc. etc. your "List" can be tailored to be a constant reminder. You can use it to question all your "should" beliefs. With this list, there is no "I should" (program), but rather "I want to get from X to Y" (a goal worth pursuing), not matter what it takes to do so.

When we say that "we should do such-and-such a thing," we are isolating that thing from the field of possibilities. That is, we surround it with an atmosphere of conviction, and perhaps anticipation, that it is not possible.
I am thinking that the "little "I's", without government, without patience, and without team consciousness, are the ones that convince us that such and such a thing is not possible.
I don't want to extend too much with examples, because I want to think slower, what I am thinking fast now because of the fascination of the subject.
I am just coming across this subject of the "little "I's", and it is appearing to me that these little mischievous ones, have quite a bit of involvement in a "belief system". And, if reality is related to the belief system, we have to put the house in order, because depending on that, the illusion of limitation will be more influential or less influential in our immediate reality.
Of course, among the possible things, I am not including things that are fanciful or out of the natural laws.
As for my personal case or house, I am trying to identify which are the more adult "I's" and which are the childish ones, in order to be active as a true adult, without losing joy.
As you rightly pointed out, it is essential to distinguish the important differences in interests between these "I's".
It may be that these differences lie in the fact that each one of them reads the signals and stimuli of the environment in a different way from the other.
The "I's" that we consider more collaborative, could well be the ones that make a more adult reading of the environment, and therefore take into account many more things than the reading of a more infantile "little I".
In this process of maturity that we have chosen to have, while it is necessary to give up a mountain of childish desires, we must not discard, much less do without, our childlike energy.
When we were children, we watched with big, curious eyes, and many of us had to be forced to go to sleep.

Thank you. Hugs. :flowers:

Hola.
Nuevamente agradezco lo que cada uno ha compartido sobre sus propias experiencias, a la hora de arreglárselas consigo mismo.
No sé si será de utilidad lo que yo pueda decir, pero igual les quiero contar un poco lo que estuve pensando.
Si bien no sabemos cómo funciona exactamente, tenemos la información de que la creación de nuestra realidad está relacionada con nuestro sistema de creencia.

Cita [ Chu dijo: ..... ]

Cuando decimos que "deberíamos hacer tal cosa", estamos aislando a dicha cosa del campo de posibilidades. Es decir, la rodeamos con una atmósfera de convencimiento y quizás anticipación, de que no es posible.
Estoy pensando que los "pequeños yoes", sin gobierno, sin paciencia, y sin consciencia de equipo, son los que nos convencen de que tal o cual cosa no es posible.
No quiero extenderme demasiado con ejemplos, porque quiero pensar más lento, lo que ahora estoy pensando rápido por lo fascinante del tema.
Recién me encuentro con este tema de los "pequeños yoes", y me está pareciendo que estos pequeños traviesos, tienen bastante participación en un "sistema de creencia". Y, si la realidad se relaciona con el sistema de creencia, tenemos que poner la casa en orden, porque en función de eso, la ilusión de limitación será más influyente o menos influyente en nuestra realidad inmediata.
Por supuesto que entre las cosas posibles, no estoy incluyendo cosas fantasiosas o que se salgan de las leyes naturales.
En cuanto a mi caso o casa personal, estoy tratando de identificar cuáles son los "yoes" más adultos y cuáles los infantiles, para poder ser activo como verdadero adulto, sin perder la alegria.
Como bien señalaron ustedes, lograr distinguir las importantes diferencias de intereses entre estos "yoes" , es primordial.
Puede ser que estas diferencias, radiquen en que cada uno de ellos, lee de forma distinta al otro, las señales y estímulos del entorno.
Los "yoes" a los que consideramos más colaboradores, bien podrían ser los que hacen una lectura más adulta del entorno, y por ende tiene en cuenta muchas más cosas, que las que puede tener la lectura de un "pequeño yo" más infantil.
En este proceso de madurez que hemos elegido tener, si bien es necesario renunciar a una montaña de deseos infantiles, no debemos descartar, y mucho menos prescindir, de nuestra energía de niño.
Cuando éramos niños, mirábamos con ojos grandes, curiosos, y a muchos nos tenían que obligar a ir a dormir.

Gracias. Abrazos.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
 

Menna

The Living Force
From what I have gathered there’s no little big or medium I’s there is noticing… once the I is noticed big or tall or small what can the being DO! There is always something else. Each I should be respected and taken care of life gave you the I and in a way you chose this life it’s all BIG. If it’s noticed in present there’s nothing to negotiate with it’s just you and the I and your resources from my experiences
 
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