Would you send a 10 year old to Zimbabwe?

[Erna]

A quick synopsis on Zim so far:

Peter Davies on Zimbabwe – Chinese troops on streets as “human wave” flees the country

Recent headlines have focussed on the “cargo of death” shipped from China to Zimbabwe last week, but in an even more sinister development, Chinese troops have been seen on the streets of a Zimbabwe town… Daily Mail Chinese and North Korean troops were also in evidence alongside Mugabe’s own troops when he attended a rally in Harare recently. I believe the Chinese and North Korean troops are now needed to stiffen Zimbabwean military support for Mugabe. There are increasing signs that not all the police, or the military, are still willing to enforce Mugabe’s murderous rule.

Despite South African President, Thabo Mbeki being a staunch Mugabe supporter, South African dockworkers refused to unload the Chinese shipload of arms and ammunition that was destined for Mugabe’s troops to use against the Zimbabwean people. Instead the ship, with its load including 3 million rounds of small arms ammunition, 3,500 mortars and rocket launchers and 1,500 rockets for rocket-propelled grenades, was redirected to Angola on Southern Africa’s West coast (Reuters). Angola has become a Chinese client state, and the country has become China’s main oil supplier. The weapons and ammunition will certainly be unloaded there and transported to land-locked Zimbabwe speedily. The Chinese require obedience from their African colonies.

For example, the Chinese Ambassador in Zambia (Zimbabwe’s northern neighbour, and a neighbour of Angola) ‘showed the country’s claws with unusual directness during Zambia’s last elections in 2006: he publicly threatened dire consequences if the “wrong” candidate (from Beijing’s perspective) secured the presidency’ Sunday Times Book Review.

It seems that we are seeing these “dire consequences” in Zimbabwe now, because the “wrong” candidate (Morgan Tsvangirai) won the presidential elections there. A woman who is part of a “human wave” fleeing Zimbabwe says she has seen gangs loyal to Mugabe beating people – some to death – in her village International Herald Tribune. On Sunday, the leading opposition party, the Movement for Democratic Change, said more than 400 supporters had been arrested, 500 attacked, 10 killed and 3,000 families displaced. A Zimbabwean newspaper publisher, Trevor Ncube, (now living in South Africa) was quoted as saying “If the British were our masters yesterday, the Chinese have come and taken their place.”

I suspect that this is now out of Mugabe’s hands – after all, he wanted to step down when it became obvious that he’d lost the election (see my post Mugabe "admits defeat"); he is now no more than a figurehead… Only South Africa can force a change in Zimbabwe, and it seems that the new leader of South Africa’s ruling ANC party, Jacob Zuma may be the man to do it. Zuma should become president of South Africa in due course, and he is reported to be ready to break with Mbeki’s ineffective “quiet diplomacy” approach. Sunday Times.

Author, Peter Davies was a soldier in Rhodesia from 1963 to 1975, where he took part in the capture and interrogation of terrorists. His novel, Scatterlings of Africa, is based on his own experience during Rhodesia’s war on terror, and personal observations of how terrorist activities impacted Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) and its people.

 

[thorbiorn]

Note: While Erna was posting above, I cleaned up in the previous post I made, including more links.

Our politics are a circus. Have you ever watched the parliament channel on TV, where they broadcast live parliament daily?

No, honestly so far I missed out on that one. In Mozambique I have seen some scenes on TV and heard others on the radio, which made me feel, in spite of not being a Mozambican, somewhat embarrassed. However in the last few years it has become better, guess they get paid more if they behave, still the opposition party at times loose their patience. If I am not mistaken though, I recall that the British also can get to a point, where they need to be reminded to keep their cool, but that is long before it reaches anywhere near the stage of a circus performance. Nevertheless I take your word, shall cancel the ticket I had bought for that other circus and tune in on the Perkus channel.

Back to Mugabe, it is widely speculated that he has sifilis, which certainly explains his behaviour. When you have sifilis, you go crazy, while still appearing normal.

I did really not know much about this subject, but found some explanations: _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syphilis Apparently the mental effect can occur if the disease goes untreated and developes into tertiary syphilis:

The insanity caused by late-stage syphilis was once one of the more common forms of dementia; this was known as the general paresis of the insane.

The rumour apparently is not new: The following which includes a section that is relevant to earlier allegations in a previous entry was Posted May 5, 2002 1:00 a.m. Eastern By Anthony C. LoBaido © 2002 WorldNetDaily.com on the site: _http://202.6.52.14/articles/288.htm:

Mugabe then brought in North Korean special forces as mercenaries to kill 30,000 to 40,000 Matalbele tribesmen who opposed his rule. Mugabe made alliances with a series of wealthy, white British industrialists and financiers who to this very day protect him and launder his overseas wealth, much of it gained through mining ventures in Marxist Congo.
[...]
Mugabe, says South African military intelligence officer William Hurst, "is very jealous of Nelson Mandela. He is also in failing health with throat cancer and syphilis. His second wife, Grace, turned him away from the Spartan life of a freedom fighter and into earthly pursuits."

My objection to this is, that he is an educated man and has enough money to take care of his health, and I am sure his wife will remind him. He may have had syphilis, but without real proof I should give him the benefit of the doubt, and propose that any failing of mind might just as well be ascribed to his age. But if you are right, then there is a strong case for pathocracy, the rule of the diseased.

I can see where you're going with this, and I can see you've been spending way too much time here in the "rainbow nation". Don't let fools impair your good judgement.

You write this as if meant in earnest. Better I take heed.

All I can say is that if I get my hands on Jan van Riebeeck he's a dead man... ;)

Indeed, my dear. Surely, I already hear him turning in his grave, for fear of a vengeful time traveler. But wait, I hear him praying. Perhaps there is still hope.

With independence comes responsibility, a lesson time will teach

If one analysis the word responsibility one can take it to be 'response+ability', that is first 'response' then 'ability'. Apparently, judging from the evidence, we are still in the 'response phase' and a wee bit short of the 'ability stage' in the overall collective functioning. Collective, because it has also to do with the ability to act together.

I find it hilarious when English people joke about Afrikaans people's accent, and I'm Afrikaans!

If I had to or chose to stay here for years, I would probably make a point of learning a few words from some of the languages including of course Afrikaans. Languages has always helped me to get around the hard edges, and the more languages one embrace, even without reaching a level of much perfection, the easier it becomes. I think a fair bit of identity, pride and fear is locked up in how we relate to language, and how we relate to those who do not understand us when we speak.

Humour which you mention is maybe a language onto its own, because those who do not have a sense of humour, do not understand it. Also there are different kinds of humour, including black humour. Now, you propose that humour will do the trick to loosen up the boundaries. Well, maybe. Unfortunately some people take their own ego and their own dogmas as some kind of religion, and react to any variant view as was if blaspheme.

Some psychological knowledge is very useful too. I have read a few of the psychology books in the QFS list and although for me reading does not equate with immediate application, it has been and is a step in the right direction. Also because most of the time we can do little about other people's manner of interpreting their reality including their interpretation of the small part that we play, but we are usually free to try to make improvements to our own, and how we interpret others.

And while I am writing I click on the latest SOTT page, and find an article by Laura Knight-Jadczyk
SOTT.NET: A Structural Theory of Narcissism and Psychopathy which contain a couple of fitting descriptions:

[T]the problem of group violence, is one of the most important issues facing society. Not only is this a most crucial topic for our American society but we are confronted with events that are occurring all over the globe, on all continents and in all countries...

So said Dr. Ernest Wolf in a talk given to the International Self-Psychology Symposium in Dreieich, Germany, in May of 2001, four months before 9-11.

That is about what we are dealing with here in Southern Africa. The rest of the article diagnosis, elaborates and suggest what can be done about it. It is well worth reading.

The last quote from your text was about Afrikaans, it reminded me of the time someone described Afrikaans as a throat infection, which I found hilarious. Hope that was not to rough, but you know, if there is no other paper available in the coffee shop, I do grab the Afrikaans version and try to spell my way. The advertisements, the stock exchange and the price of gold, I can get right ;) and by then, those other blokes have usually finished the English paper.

Between the two links you gave I laughed most at the Zimbabwean border jumper, trying to explain the border officer why he was stuck in the fence, and chocks, those lions are tough guards.

 

[thorbiorn]

Today there surfaced another news site: _http://www.zimbabwesituation.com/index.html apparently run by a group of dedicated people, that have been collecting and putting out news about the situation in Zimbabwe since, it seems, March 2000.

There is a book about the farm evictions called "African Tears: The Zimbabwe Land Invasions" by Catherine Buckle. The book is available from _http://www.kalahari.net/books/African-Tears/632/26071967.aspx along with the follow up 'Beyond Tears: Zimbabwe's Tragedy'.

Around the time of writing and preparing to publish African Tears, Catherine Buckle wrote a letter to her family and friends. She writes about her struggle to complete the book about the land evictions:

'As I struggled to finish each section and chapter, Chris Cocks has come back with words of encouragement. I can't tell you how many dozens of times I've changed my mind about whether to go ahead and publish or wait till things stabilize in Zim. Each time I've changed my mind, Chris has stood by me, understood, empathized and waited for me to change my mind again!

Finally I said OK, let's do it, let's go for it, this story must be told; or, as Chris says : let's publish and be damned! Finally I signed the contracts, told Chris to start type-setting and kept telling myself everything would be OK. They wouldn't dare touch me, wouldn't dare get at me, wouldn't dare hurt Richie, etc etc. But in the last fortnight I've started to go into deep panic again.

They (whoever 'they' really are) planted 3 bombs under the printing presses of the Daily News and blew the machines to pieces. 3000 w.v's marauded through Harare, burnt the flags at the British and US embassies and declared war on the world and anyone daring to differ. '

In the above a section was underlined: or wait till things stabilize in Zim.. The book was out in the shops in December 2002. - It was good she did not wait until things stabilize.

But is it likely Zim will stabilize soon?

Erika Gibson, Beeld Pretoria
- A second shipment of considerably-more-sophisticated Chinese weaponry destined for Zimbabwe will be flown to Harare from China within the next week. It was going to be taken by aircraft to expedite the delivery and to circumvent the controversy around last week's shipment by sea. The decision apparently was made on Monday by Zimbabwean military generals during an emergency meeting.

Conclusion: The army is expecting conflict.

Only South Africa can force a change in Zimbabwe, and it seems that the new leader of South Africa’s ruling ANC party, Jacob Zuma may be the man to do it. Zuma should become president of South Africa in due course, and he is reported to be ready to break with Mbeki’s ineffective “quiet diplomacy” approach.

Erna, consider this:

Defence force gave military intelligence to Mugabe
Sunday Times, SA

Bobby Jordan
Published:Apr 20, 2008

Top-secret military intelligence reports about Robert Mugabe’s political rivals are among a stash of documents handed over to his regime by the South African National Defence Force — shortly before the signing of a military pact between the two countries.

A detailed index of the documents — of which the Sunday Times has a copy — is contained in papers before the Pretoria High Court, where a prominent human rights organisation is fighting for access to them.

The classified documents were handed back to Zimbabwe in December 2004 shortly after a Johannesburg academic applied to view them.

The transfer was authorised by the then head of the armed forces, General Siphiwe Nyanda, on the grounds that the documents had been illegally obtained — and were therefore not South African property. No copies were made, according to an affidavit submitted to court.

The transferred documents — entitled Afdeling Militêre Inligting Group 4 (‘the Group 4 records’) — include files on informants who worked against Mugabe’s liberation movement, the Zimbabwe African National Union (Zanu), as well as a file entitled “Zanu Propaganda”.

There are also dozens of files on the Zimbabwean African People’s Union (Zapu), which was Mugabe’s main rival in the south of Zimbabwe before independence.

Other files cover operational matters ranging from interrogation to military manoeuvres. They originate from Rhodesian Military Intelligence records and cover a period from the early 1960s to the late 1970s.

Piers Pigou, director of the South African History Archive, who lodged the High Court application, said some of the files were “potentially deadly” if named informants were still alive. He said it was unclear where the files had ended up because there was no sign of them at the Zimbabwean national archives. He also asked why no copies had been made when similar documents returned to Namibia had been copied and stored on microfilm.

“We believe the politics of this is more about an attempt to curry favour with the Zimbabwe security and intelligence establishment,” Pigou said.

The article continues on the website.

Therefore all in all it does not really look like Zimbabwe is going to change very soon, even if Robert Mugane goes. The Zimbabwean military is building up. The war in Angola lasted 30 years, the civil war in Mozambique 16. The recent inner transformations in Zimbabwe began only 8 years ago.

Now in case the day would arrive, and would be fought, then how could it be experienced? One can get a clue maybe:

Further up there was in the short excerpt about African Tears, a mention of Chris Cocks. He is author of a book called Fire Force which you can find on _http://www.30degreessouth.co.za/shop/index.php?main_page=pubs_product_book_info&cPath=5&products_id=15 It is now in its 4th edition and has some good reviews:

“Chris Cocks has resisted the temptation to glorify the fighting to any extent at all. He sees it for the catalogue of destruction, suffering and death that war is all about; and in the bush it was, very often, a matter of face-to-face combat at point-blank range.”
Homefront, The MOTH magazine

“This book, however, is notable in that it is the first account of the Zimbabwean war by a Rhodesian soldier which does not attempt to deify the Rhodesians or their war. The strength of the book lies in that, in the same way as Platoon, it refuses to disguise the psychological trauma consequent on youth being conscripted into the army. Fireforce highlights some of the debasement and brutality that face the average recruit.”
Oudtshoorn Courier

‘Fire Force’ I read nine years ago. We had just moved into a bush camp in Northern MZ, that we were taking over after a road construction company and some engineer had left a few books behind of which Fire Force was one. It was an unforgettable read, very, very human and also shocking. It was first time I was introduced to such descriptions of war.

This reading helped me, because a few months earlier I had worked with a young fellow, who had fought four years in the Mozambican civil wars on the side of Frelimo against Renamo. Sometimes he alluded to the horrors of African bush war, and the things he had gone through, the blood, the killing, the fear, the bodies. But he could not say much to me because I could not understand it or remained closed. Only when I read ‘Fire Force’ by Chris Cocks did I get it.

Further up in a previous post there was an article:
_http://www.sundayindependent.co.za/index.php?from=rss_The%20Sunday%20Independent&fArticleId=4339696 that carried the information allegedly given by an insider well connected to the family of President Robert Mugabe:

Grace no match for Mugabe's generals
Grace Mugabe tried unsuccessfully to dissuade President Robert Mugabe from running for a sixth term [...]
Grace told Mugabe that the situation was too traumatic for their children. [...]
She also told Mugabe that he was 84 and if he were to go for a sixth term he would not have a chance or time to spend with the family,"[...]
Mugabe promised Grace that he would stand for one last term [...]
Grace put on a smiling face[...]
Grace is said to have gone to the president and said: "I told you so."

The suffering of the Zimbabwean people may include not only those below him, but also some of those around him, although the suffering may of a different kind.

If knowledge protects and ignorance endangers, then knowledge might help in Zimbabwe too.

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/intro.htm Home of the Most Dangerous Idea in the world (to those who seek to Oppress Mankind)

 

[Erna]

shall cancel the ticket I had bought for that other circus and tune in on the Perkus channel.

I think it's funnier when you're not a South African, knowing it's your own government kind of takes all the fun out of it 8|
Although after watching the news tonight and seeing Hillary Clinton threatening to "wipe Iran off the map" if she becomes president, makes me prefer our clowns instead. Maybe Hillary is just a clown with a few wmd's at her disposal, she certainly made me laugh with her heroic Bosnia adventure.

Hillary WASN'T LYING! Bosnia gunfire footage discovered...

developes into tertiary syphilis

I think that was the stage he started wearing those ridiculous caps.

My objection to this is, that he is an educated man and has enough money to take care of his health, and I am sure his wife will remind him.

His wife, as you mentioned earlier, prefers witch doctors, rather than western physicians, which is probably the reason his sifilis was able to develop into the tertiary stage. We should thank her.

But wait, I hear him praying.

His praying cause he knows my time machine is almost working. ;)

Humour which you mention is maybe a language onto its own, because those who do not have a sense of humour, do not understand it.

Add to that also that different races/ethnic groups have different senses of humour. I think someone pulled a bad trick on us all here on the big blue marble as an experiment, whoever he/she/it may be. I don't exactly buy into the whole tower of Babel thing. But since we're balancing so many topics at the moment, I don't think we should throw religion into the mix as well.

Also because most of the time we can do little about other people's manner of interpreting their reality including their interpretation of the small part that we play, but we are usually free to try to make improvements to our own, and how we interpret others.

Bulls eye!

I would like to read Fire Force, the Mozambique war has always interested me, cause all these Southern African countries have such an intertwined history. When I was in school and we were taught about gorilla war tactics, I never imagined it was so involved. And the stories about "wet work" kept me awake at night.

And while I am writing I click on the latest SOTT page, and find an article by Laura Knight-Jadczyk

I will only get round to that article after this post...rough day...load shedding. Africa isn't for sissies ;)

someone described Afrikaans as a throat infection

Careful mister, you are tap dancing on thiiiiiiiiinnn ice...

I received this article today: Chinese not helpful in Africa

although I still think I'd rather be colonized by the Chinese, before I'm liberated by the Yanks...

I'll check those links in your second post out now.

 

[Erna]

Thiorborn, here is a "throat infection" song for you ;)

Beautiful In Beaufort-Wes

No idea who's Myspace page that is though...

 

[thorbiorn]

Just watched the Hilary Clinton YouTube, twice and wondered if it could be real, the sound of the rifle and the head dropping off. Then, semi convinced I saw the adds following and clicked one: CBS Exposes Hillary Clinton Bosnia Trip. Amazing to see the difference.

I would like to read Fire Force, the Mozambique war has always interested me

I need to clarify that whereas I did read the book while in the Mozambican bush, the relation ends there, because it mainly takes place in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe. However there is one time where they went into Mozambique, I think the Tete province, to attack forces belonging to the Zimbabwean resistance movement being trained there.

The reason why the book although it took place in Zimbabwe helped me to understand my friend, who fought in Mozambique, was that the bush is not that different between the two countries and much more important Fire Force describes the psychological strain on a soldier very well.

I listened to the Afrikaans song a couple of times, quite good. Now if one has to speak of 'throat infection' and approaches it from a more technical standpoint, then the idea probably arose, because an English student wishing attempting to speak it, will have to exercise other parts of the vocal organs, than he or she is used to.

 

[Erna]

because an English student wishing attempting to speak it, will have to exercise other parts of the vocal organs?

Is that your attempt at a white flag?

No I know what you're saying. Completely different mindset than English. We always struggle with tenses in English. I'm okay with past, present and future, but as soon as we go to past-present, present-past-future, past-past-present...wtf

 

[thorbiorn]

In light of recent developments in Zim, I think you know the answer to your initial question.

and half jokingly

Africa isn't for sissies ;)

I was reviewing the thread and looking up some of the sites listed, which then led to new sites and new ideas. I recalled the book on Political Ponerology by Andrew M. Lobaczewski in which he indicates the value of having a network, when one faces a troubled circumstances.

From people I have spoken to over the years, and who have lived through conflicts and tensions worse than what is now in Zimbabwe I know that networks are really very essential and can make the difference between life and death, and also between a difficult life and a comfortable life. So if Sarah and her daughter genuinely wish to meet up in Zimbabwe then a good idea would be to review what kind of network Sarah has. The network does not have to be infinite, but it has to be good enough to master the challenge at hand. For exampled does Sarah have connections in the places of power, in the local community, in different social, economic and religious groups, does she know lawyers, doctors and others who are good to know. Does she know people in different parts of the country, in case a travel has to be arranged or interrupted. Does she keep the ear to the ground and stays on top of what is going on? Finally although not related, is the daughter physically fit; can she run a mile?

Here is one list of groups that work together and within which there might be help to find: _http://www.hrforumzim.com/frames/inside_frame_member.htm

And if she needs help from outside, do those who can help her, know how to do it? For example there is a site about sending stuff into Zimbabwe _https://www.mukuru.com/whatis.php

In almost every situation there are windows of opportunity, even though sometimes they are quite narrow. Can one can recognize these windows, then life is easier. If one takes risks, it is good to know them for what they are and have an idea of how to avoid them. I think the above is my conclusion and would like to thank Erna for her inputs. To work on this thread has been a bit eye opening, I almost lost the ability to blink ;)

 

[Erna]

the value of having a network, when one faces a troubled circumstances.

Friends and family, in my opinion, is the only thing that makes life worth living. In times like these, even more so. Times like these force you to get your priorities straight. Spend less time at the office for one, because all of a sudden, time has become a very valuable commodity, can't waste it on things that don't matter. We all lost track of one another in the last couple of years, building our careers, and now our careers are meaningless. All of a sudden we're getting together constantly. Someone described it the other night as "separation anxiety". Is there such a condition?

A network might not keep you out of harm's way, but it can lessen the burden. Here is such a website, where ex-Zimbabweans from all over the world tell their survival stories. I enjoyed listening to these podcasts, although it's a little close to home for me at the moment. Never underestimate the human spirit.

Paradise Lost

would like to thank Erna for her inputs

I also enjoyed it thorbiorn, although this chapter is far from over.

I have a new interest in the Chinese government for obvious reasons, and came across this "Blog entry" yesterday. How's this for indoctrination?

Let Truth Speak Louder

I can't really speak about the Tibet thing, cause I know too little about it. What caught me eye was this sentence:

Since China's opening-up three decades ago, the Chinese people have been trying to know more about the world and have tried to be known.

It would appear though as if they did a little more than trying to know more about the world.

And this:

Misunderstanding China or hostility towards China would favour neither China nor the world.

Is this a threat?

It's a good thing they steered clear of my neighbourhood with that Olympic torch, I definately would have made the news. ;) I have yet to see any of the protesters carry any banners about China's "occupation" of Zimbabwe...oh I forgot...it's Africa...

Later..

 

[thorbiorn]

I can't really speak about the Tibet thing, cause I know too little about it.

Some Chinese online newspapers: _http://www.onlinenewspapers.com/china.htm

I clicked just one: _http://english.people.com.cn/ which has some articles about the Tibetan uprising.

Other articles:
_http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-04/25/content_8045734.htm
_http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-04/23/content_8037571.htm

What the exile Tibetans say about themselves on:
_http://www.tibet.com/
_http://www.tibet.org/
_http://www.freetibet.org/
as well as what the World Media reports:
_http://wnsitemap.com which has
_http://www.tibetlife.com/
_http://www.businesstibet.com/
See also _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet
_http://www.rangzen.com/history/views.htm presents the two views on Tibet, Tibetan and Chinese, short and concise.

Some people say the Dalai Lama wants 'high-level autonomy', not 'independence', for Tibet. But no government in the world would allow such 'autonomy' in its territory as the Dalai Lama demands for Tibet.

Consider for comparison: _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faroe_Islands and _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland



The role of China in Africa, an example:
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKEPkjXbUgs with the title: Darfur,Sudan,Oil,America and China
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qgnw85UapiY&NR=1 with the title: Sudan & China - Bridges of communication through Merawe dam

The next three are sponsored by _ http://www.larouchepac.com/
I looked for Zimbabwe and China on YouTube and found:
4/7/08: Free Tibet Conspiracy, Zimbabwe, World War 3, ect. _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1E09sS-42g

4/15/08: Dalai Lama Nazi Conspiracy, WWIII Food Crisis, Iran _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rut-tXh_TEI&feature=related

The above two video attempt to explain the connections between different events, including those in Africa, that takes place in the world. Also who is thinking to eliminate 80 % of the Worlds population and how they want to do it.

Report: Food Crisis, Tibet War Conspiracy, Economic Collapse _ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFVAQf7UASQ how the world has been led step by step to a food crisis, economic instability with the goal to create a genocide through famine, war and diseases.. Has notes on the role of Zimbabwe in relation to South Africa.

Interview: Zimbabwe Ambassador _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chUpfOYZI5A&feature=related Explains among other the history of Zimbabwe from a Zimbabwean viewpoint, explains the story of the land dispute too. A note about South African land reform possibly following in the footsteps of Zimbabwe and why there is SA/ANC solidarity with Zim/Mugabe.

In this post it is the above four YouTubes that gave me the most food for thought, although I can not verify all yet. They were posted on YouTube by laroucheyouth which are described as Lyndon LaRouche's most important front line forces. In any case it seems they educate people through mathematics as on pages like: _http://www.wlym.com/drupal/antidummies and _http://wlym.com/drupal/

Since China's opening-up three decades ago, the Chinese people have been trying to know more about the world and have tried to be known.

It would appear though as if they did a little more than trying to know more about the world.

There was one fresh news item about South Africa:

China, South Africa hold first strategic dialogue 08:20, April 24, 2008China and South Africa held their first strategic dialogue here Wednesday, according to a statement released by China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

The dialogue was co-chaired by Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Zhang Yesui and his South African counterpart Aziz Pahad, the statement said.

The two sides briefed each other their foreign strategy and policy on African affairs, exchanged views on bilateral ties and international and regional affairs, reaching broad consensus.

According to the statement, both sides agreed that the dialogue, held between the two important developing countries, helped promote mutual understanding and mutual trust, and enhance bilateral communication and coordination on major issues.

It was also of great significance to deepen bilateral strategic partnership and a new type of China-Africa strategic partnership so to build a harmonious world of lasting peace and common prosperity.

The statement said both sides were satisfied with the results of the first strategic dialogue and would like to further strengthen cooperation under the mechanism.

The two sides agreed to build the dialogue into an effective mechanism to advance bilateral ties.

Source: Xinhua

But there are other reason, besides economic, why Chinese would like to come out:

SHANGHAI, China -- The lopsided male-female ratio in China caused by sex-selection abortions is worsening, pushed up to 120 men for every 100 women, a government newspaper says.

See also _http://www.gendercide.org/case_infanticide.html and

The official "one-child" policy increases the perceived value of male births although a second child is allowed in many rural areas. Urban middle-class families are also more likely to decide that "one is enough" if their first child is male.
Many rural Chinese women are using ultrasound scans to determine the sex of their foetus and ensure the birth of a boy, according to research published by the US-based Population and Development Review.
More than 300 out of 820 women surveyed in a central Chinese village had abortions and more than a third of them admitted they were trying to select their offspring's sex.
[…]Five provinces show more than 125 male births for every 100 females, with the percentage reaching 130 in Guangdong and as high as 135 in Hainan.
The official Chinese media have recently begun to acknowledge more openly such difficult social issues as HIV-Aids and the gap between rich and poor as well as the sex imbalance.
Some Chinese experts claim that there are already as many as 70 million more males than females in the country.

Misunderstanding China or hostility towards China would favour neither China nor the world

Is this a threat?

Could sound like Bright Matonga, Zanu-PF spokesperson & Deputy Information Minister of Zimbabwe in the interview you posted on page 2 #16 in this thread. But one can also take it as an invitation to study Chinese, Chinese culture and perhaps benefit from this.

There is a book that was recommended to me by one forum member: "Root of Chinese Chi Kung the Secrets Of (Ymaa Chi Kung Series, #1) (Paperback)
by Jwing-Ming Yang (Author)" (See the contents on Amazon.com) It explains some of the theoretical and general practical basis for the different kinds of Chinese energy work whether expressed in martial arts, healing science or the quest of longevity or enlightenment. If one understands the spiritual and philosophical basis of a culture more doors open.

A note about Robert Mugabe and African genocides:

The Zimbabwean government sent troops to assist Kabila in 1998.[10] President Robert Mugabe, lured by Congo's rich natural resources and a desire to increase his own power and prestige in Africa, was the most ardent supporter of intervention on Kabila's behalf. Kabila and Mugabe had signed a US$200 million contract involving corporations owned by Mugabe and his family, and there were several reports in 1998 of numerous mining contracts being negotiated with companies under the control of the Mugabe family. Mugabe resented being displaced by South African Nelson Mandela as the premier statesman of southern Africa. The war was a chance to confront another prominent African president, Yoweri Museveni of Uganda. As the head of the SADC's Organ on Politics, Defence and Security Mugabe believed he could reclaim his position as southern Africa's premiere statesmen by aiding Kabila. Mugabe pitched the war as an effort to shore up a "democratically elected government." Involvement in the war triggered a precipitous decline in Zimbabwe's economic performance and the value of the Zimbabwean dollar. In addition, it caused severe shortages of hard currency.

The above Wiki site also has something else:

Pygmies
During the war, Pygmies were hunted down like game animals and eaten. Both sides of the war regarded them as "subhuman" and some say their flesh can confer magical powers. UN human rights activists reported in 2003 that rebels had carried out acts of cannibalism. Sinafasi Makelo, a representative of Mbuti pygmies, has asked the UN Security Council to recognise cannibalism as a crime against humanity and an act of genocide. The Pygmies are believed to be the original inhabitants of the vast rainforests of Central Africa.[16][17][18][19]

Genetically, the eastern Mbuti pygmies are extremely divergent from other human populations, as well as being the shortest of the Pygmy populations, suggesting they have an ancient indigenous lineage. Their closest relatives appear to be the Hadzabe, who live in the savannas east of the forest and were quite short in stature before heavy recent intermarriage with their taller neighbors.

Does anyone think the day will come when the Pygmies will evict the Bantu tribes from “their land” Mugabe-style? And what about the San people?

The Bushmen, San, Basarwa, ǃKung or Khwe are indigenous people of southern africa which spans most areas of South Africa, Zimbabwe , Lesotho, Mozambique, Swaziland, Botswana, Namibia and Angola. They were traditionally hunter-gatherers, part of the Khoisan group, and are related to the traditionally pastoral Khoikhoi. Starting in the 1950s, through the 1990s, they switched to farming.

Genetic evidence suggests they are one of the oldest, if not the oldest, peoples in the world — a "genetic Adam" according to Spencer Wells, from which all humans can ultimately trace their genetic heritage.[1]

Returning to the original question of the thread, about sending a 10 year old girl to Zimbabwe, I asked the people from Zim, how they travel from Johannesburg to Zim and was given the names of some bus companies. They said it is safe. Also one lady said, that she feels safer in Zim, because there is less violent crime. There she is fine walking at 2100 alone in the street, but she can not do it here in SA. She says the country is poor, but the law is strong. In SA a lot of people do what they like, in Zim there is only one and that is Mugabe, she said. People fight sometimes and sometimes with knives, but there are much fewer guns, they are more seldom used, and less people are killed.

She also said there is plane to Harare and it should not be too expenses, but this I have not researched.

When I had to go to the Central Station in Johannesburg I inquired about the buses and confirmed that Greyhound goes daily to Bulawayo and Harare, the other company I asked was Zimbabwe Pioneer which also has daily departure to Bulawayo, Harare and Mutare. Prices are around 300 Rand. There should be other companies that go too.
Therefore travel is possible and at the moment apparently not too risky. But one will have to know to which region the girl would be going to say anything precise, and one needs to follow the development day by day.

although this chapter is far from over.

I feel the question about the daughter traveling is almost settled, at least for me, but the debate stirred so many other aspects.

Edit: If anyone would have the time to listen to the podcasts from LaRouche group including the ambassadors talk and give their view on the reasoning, I should appreciate. It is not difficult to see that they are leaving out some topics that are familiar on this site, like cyclical cataclysm, ponerology, the 4th density STS dealings and interference, and 4th density. But is the role they attribute to what they call the British oligarchs correct? If the Capitol of STS is the US, then how can it be? What Lyndon LaRouche has is possibly a model that explains a greater variety of events than most others, but which upon closer inspection is seen to be leaving some factors out.

 

[Erna]

Meanwhile, north of the Limpopo river...

Zimbabwe: Muckraker - Zim's Great Chinese Takeaway

Did I mention we should put the newspaper columnists on that endangered list as well? Especially in light of the 1st sacking of one of our most gifted columnists ever? What happened to freedom of speech?

Sunday Times fires David Bullard

"Many in the industry felt that this was an opportunity for the Sunday Times to “get rid of Bullard” as he became more and more vocal in his criticism of the Government and the ruling party, the ANC."

...and the controversial column:

Uncolonised Africa wouldn’t know what it was missing

And if you find this column offensive, remember this:

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." - Noam Chomsky


EDIT: And meanwhile, south of the Limpopo river...

129 Zim protesters held at Chinese embassy

 

[Erna]

Unarmed Zim ripe for slaughter

“Bob’s mad scramble for weapons” (April 20), refers.

Marie Antoinette’s famous words come to mind: “If they don’t have bread, let them eat cake.”

In Mad Bob’s case, we offer a similar pearl of wisdom, but without the 17th-century naivety: “If they don’t have bullets, give them machetes.”

Genocide in Rwanda demonstrated that soldiers can do the job just as well with machetes, as long as the population is deprived of guns.

Mugabe’s population has no guns to speak of and is ripe for annihilation.

In South Africa, the “Zanufication” process is well on its way as the draconian Firearms Control Act is paving the way by empowering the South African Police Service bullyboys.

The media are playing their part by conditioning present and future victims.

Crime rules South Africa and criminals are our “war vets”.

 

[Erna]

I'm going to end off this thread with this link:

The Bearded Man

This is a man who's inside Zimbabwe and dedicates himself to get news out almost on a daily basis. He understands the state sponsored news media / government Zanu-PF mouth piece / propaganda machine very well and frequently comment on it.

He gives a much better account of the current climate in Zim than I can. It's a shocking read.