Obsession with beauty - Plastic surgeries - Trans (Katoi from Thailand)

meadow_wind

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
I would like to understand what's wrong with society nowadays and how this all started. Maybe it never started; it's always been that way for ages, but it got hyped to new levels with the help of technology. Is it all related to self-esteem? Some people have real problems and these procedures are life-changing, some are ok looking but want to fix a few defects, whilst others just become obsessed with unrealistic expectations.

I watched a few documentaries to try to understand these topics.

South Korea seems to be leading the way in regards to plastic surgeries: a 3 billion US$ market. Up to 50% of women in the cities have had it. Men are as eager to do so because beauty standards have reached unrealistic levels, to the point where people are unable to get employed if they are not pretty enough. Some procedures do seem helpful in certain cases, to fix real problems. Some girls got bullied into doing it by their employers, contracting huge debt under the threat of losing their jobs. Some girls are just rich and obsessed; one of them spent 500 000$ over 100 procedures... An extreme case of obsession led a woman who had no more money to inject herself with cooking oil, which led to her being disfigured for life. :scared:
The most sought-after surgery is double eyelid surgery, but the documentary shows it goes well beyond that.



China seems to be catching up with this surgery market and beauty obsession, but not as badly as Korea. It's mostly affecting people who hope to work or are working in the showbiz industry or in the higher ladders of society.


This, of course, leads to another very disturbing topic that seems to have taken birth in Thailand but has now become a "woke" plague in all Western societies. Something I really do not understand and feel is the apogee of insanity.
The video starts showing a beautiful female fashion model... But it used to be a man.
I specifically placed the video at 17 min when they visit a school, interviewing boys between 13 & 15 yrs old. They say 5% of that school considers themselves Katoi; about 50 boys!

One boy says, "I want to be as pretty as they are and I'll do anything for it, even plastic surgery."
The other, "It's good to show that we Katoi can compete with women, we can be more beautiful than women."
A lot of them says they are a girl born into a boy's body.
What is wrong with them??? Could this all stem from past lives' karmic imprint/memories?
On a positive note, they designed a 3rd bathroom for them instead of doing the genderless BS they did here.

 
This topic is fascinating and disturbing. And sad, too. What happened in Korean society that makes women, who are so beautiful, want to change their beautiful faces? The beauty myth shows how much people follow fashion, the agenda that physical beauty is the most important. What a void it reveals! An existential void where ideal beauty is essential to be happy and have a lot of money, to be loved and accepted in society. I imagine Koreans have suffered enormously from the influence of the United States. Competition for a place in society, to make friends, to not be different. No matter who you are inside, only your physical appearance and staying young matter. But these women and men will grow old; it's the law of life. What will happen then? It's a rejection of life as it is. It seems to me that these young women have chosen superficiality. The subject is profound, philosophical. There are two tragic cases in the video: the girl who was addicted, who was so beautiful, and the young man with glasses and a chin problem. But the others, beautiful and slim, follow fashion and tell themselves that happiness (having money and a good job) is essential.

Thank you for these two documentaries (I've only seen the one about Korea, and I'll watch the other one later). It makes you want to delve deeper into South Korea's thinking.

Naomi Woolf wrote a book a long time ago on the myth of beauty, which is very interesting. The Beauty Myth: How Images of Beauty Are Used Against Women
 
I also baffled by the want to look different than the way we are born, is it only the organic type of humans that are driven by this or others who are disconnected from their soul source through trauma and programming ?
To be honest I like ageing and I’m looking forward to being older, having more wrinkles and saggy skin because I think it will be freeing from societal expectation or norm that arms to plague everyone my age. I’m in that age bracket (45+) where it seems women, and may be men too, start freaking out about losing their youth. I’ve felt it, no longer young but not quite old yet, a strange middle place where looks start to really change. Lots of ladies my age are getting fillers and expensive skin treatments to try to compete with nature and I feel a bit uncomfortable around them. It’s like some bizarre competition of who can stay looking young for the longest.

And health or genetics doesn’t seem to come into it the equation. My cousin nearly died from a blood clot on her lungs after having liposuction, said she’d never have any kind of surgery again only 6 months later gets a tummy tuck, boob job and a face full of botox plus regular laser skin treatments then posts herself all over social media.

Sad world we live in when what we have been bestowed by Mother Nature isn’t good enough for us.
 
I don’t get it either …

Sure, plastic surgery can be very beneficial. I have seen amazing results in people who were disfigured by injuries/ burns. But this trend now to blow up the lips and have those large eye lashes for me disfigures a woman more than beautifies her. I can see that at my workplace where a lot of the younger ladies have all those blown up lips and fake eyelashes - must be a case of social contagion where the standard of beauty simply shifts in their group. THEY think they look better, while those outside the group watch with amazement and disgust at the ongoing disfigurement.

And then there are the truly grotesque cases - Donatella Versace comes to mind … maybe the dream of eternal youth?

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I don't get it too..
My wife want to do souch surgeries, I dont find it neccery, because for me she is beautiful how she looks.
But she says, that she is afraid, that as we get older, she will not look so good for me and that I will leave here because of that. Even when I say to here, that her look is not everything and that she will look good for me even when we are older, because I love here, she stays uncertain about that.
So my take is, that so many people are afraid, that they will not be liked/loved, if they don't look as perfect as possible. We are to trained, to influenced by the narrative we/most of us get indoctrinated. It seams, nobody is recognizing the beauty whithin anymore, or at least they think, that others will not recognize it in themselves...
 
I don't get it too..
My wife want to do souch surgeries, I dont find it neccery, because for me she is beautiful how she looks.
But she says, that she is afraid, that as we get older, she will not look so good for me and that I will leave here because of that. Even when I say to here, that her look is not everything and that she will look good for me even when we are older, because I love here, she stays uncertain about that.
So my take is, that so many people are afraid, that they will not be liked/loved, if they don't look as perfect as possible. We are to trained, to influenced by the narrative we/most of us get indoctrinated. It seams, nobody is recognizing the beauty whithin anymore, or at least they think, that others will not recognize it in themselves...
I can relate to your wife, I’ve had the same thoughts and feelings because men tend to age more gracefully than women and also have the opportunity to grow a beard to cover up some lines and wrinkles. Yet it goes further than that. All of these beautiful women out there, there’s always going to be more up and coming beautiful women and society has programmed both men and women to think that sexuality is based on appearance. It’s a mind virus that takes some of us (I’m not in any way referring to you Claus) a whole lot if inner work to be comfortable in our appearance and bodies to not be infected. I have been infected and it’s a very painful struggle to make peace with myself about it. I work on it every day, in the past I had all kinds of non specified eating disorders to stay slim and I really damaged my heath, I’m on the mend though.

I caught my partner watching pornography and doing his best to hide it from me. Although I think I’ve healed from that I no longer want to be intimate with him and on the very rare occasion that I am he says something really stupid like last time said ‘I was imagining you were younger Emma’ (this guy is a fair bit stunted in simple understandings and human interaction and somehow thought this was a compliment towards me)

This didn’t make me want to get plastic surgery but give me the opportunity to look into myself and learn to love me better than anyone else could. So now I only really want to work on becoming a better version of me and embrace ageing and learning about myself with grace and excitement.
And I sing a song Dolly Parton sang in the movie A Smokey Mountain Christmas to my body in the shower and tell her she’s a fantastic body and thank her for all that she does for me.
I wish everyone could do the same. I really love seeing a celebrity or popular persons allow their aging process to unravel naturally, unfortunately there’s not enough of that.
 
I don't get it too..
My wife want to do souch surgeries, I dont find it neccery, because for me she is beautiful how she looks.
But she says, that she is afraid, that as we get older, she will not look so good for me and that I will leave here because of that. Even when I say to here, that her look is not everything and that she will look good for me even when we are older, because I love here, she stays uncertain about that.

Sounds like maybe that isn’t the real reason why she wants these procedures.

It seems to me these stupid lips and eyelashes are just a fashion thing - albeit a horrible and invasive one. It’s like wanting branded handbags, gold jewelry, etc.

You should just tell her you think it looks ugly and you’d be way less attracted to her if she had these things done. If she still comes up with excuses, then you know it’s not really about pleasing you.
 
Plastic surgery seems to be a trend in the West too, and I’m not sure who or why big fish lips are seen to be beautiful. There is a term now coined the Mar-a-Lago face, ful of Botox and plastic surgery. It’s sad to see, and I personally don’t find it aesthetically appealing at all!


And I think Lauren Sanchez (Bezos’ wife) looked much prettier before all the surgery:
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Well if we talk about Korea specifically, I think there are 2 key factors
1) The K-POP industry sets idealised standards of beauty
and this is mixed with
2) The generally hyper-competitive nature of their society. Korea is a country of predatory capitalism where all power belongs to chaebol corporations and competition permeates society at all levels of hierarchy, not even universities and schools (or work in chaebols for which this elite education is necessary) but even for places in kindergartens there is fierce competition, which also translates into the fact that Korea is among the world leaders among developed countries in the number of suicides.
Greater attractiveness = greater chance of finding a rich man (of course this does not describe all women, but it has gradually led to the normalisation of surgery and an anti-bodysuit approach - if you have a "flaw" fix it).

P.S. it can be said that in Japan too, the aidol industry is developed but surgery is rare. Well, their society does not have such toxic competition there, the value of the collective and society is instilled from school.
 
Well if we talk about Korea specifically, I think there are 2 key factors
1) The K-POP industry sets idealised standards of beauty
and this is mixed with
2) The generally hyper-competitive nature of their society.
Indeed, beauty standards and motivations seem to differ from country to country.
In another documentary, people were interviewed being asked their opinion of Korea vs Japan. Most of them said that even if both countries aim for perfection, Korea has a very fast pace of life that is tiring, which is why they had moved to Japan, where the pace of life is a little slower.

And yeah, K-pop... That's a whole can of worms by itself. I'm witnessing the mental damage K-pop and TikTok (Douyin in Asia) do to young people, thanks to what my 12 yrs old daughter shares with me regarding her schoolmates... They just mimic, emulate, and repeat anything they see like little brainless monkeys.


And I think Lauren Sanchez (Bezos’ wife) looked much prettier before all the surgery:
The beauty standards of the "Rich and famous" from the US are so ugly I could vomit. They look like monsters. The Asian ladies aim for a much more genuine beauty, and even the ones that "overdo" it, usually the rich ones, end up looking much nicer than those Western mutants.


My wife want to do souch surgeries, I dont find it neccery, because for me she is beautiful how she looks.
I think it would be nice to let her open up to you regarding how she feels and what "correction" she wishes to have done / what type of procedures she is looking into. That way, you could both engage in the discussion, and this might alleviate her fears regarding her appearance.

8 years ago, I had a laser treatment to fix rosacea and spider veins on my cheeks. This is something that gets worse if not treated, and was caused by me not protecting my skin from sun damage. I would sometimes have "flares" which would cause the skin to look all red and swollen. This problem seems to be coming back after all these years, so I might have to go for treatment once more. So yeah, some procedures can be beneficial, and some might be just to feel better about oneself.
 
Once stereotypes become established and relatively easy to access, they are difficult to curb due to the competition that arises in various areas.
The following has been going on in Nigeria for years, (77% of women use some product) but it has once again made the news due to dangerous products that have harmed many people.

Nigeria world capital of skin bleaching: Health minister calls attention to ‘continental crisis’
Awareness campaigns about harmful effects, better enforcement of product regulation need of the hour, he stresses

While several African countries, including Ghana, South Africa and Mali, have banned SLPs, the enforcement of these laws remains weak.

Nigeria's Minister of State for Health and Social Welfare, Iziaq Salako, has expressed concern over the widespread use of skin-lightening products (SLP) in Nigeria and across Africa, despite their known health risks.

He highlighted that Nigeria is among the countries with the highest global usage of SLPs — 77 per cent of the country’s women uses skin bleaching, the World Health Organization (WHO) estimated.

The country’s recognition as the "the world capital of skin bleaching" underscores a cultural and societal preference for lighter skin tones, Salako stressed, speaking at a workshop in Gabon focused on eliminating these cosmetic products.

To address this issue, Nigeria is developing a national policy on cosmetics to ensure the safety and quality of cosmetic products. Salako emphasised that not only are women using SLPs, but men also tend to pressure women, directly or indirectly, to lighten their skin. Therefore, he stressed that public health campaigns must include men.

The global skin-lightening industry, valued at around $10 billion in 2021, has found a particularly lucrative market in Nigeria. In other African countries, the rate of women opting for skin bleaching is 25 per cent in Mali, 32 per cent in South Africa, 39 per cent in Ghana, 50 per cent in Senegal and 66 per cent in Congo-Brazzaville, according to WHO.

This trend is fueled, in part, by societal perceptions that equate lighter skin with beauty, wealth and achievement.

While several African countries, including Ghana, South Africa and Mali, have banned SLPs, the enforcement of these laws remains weak.

Products range from creams and soaps to injectable solutions, many of which are easily accessible in local markets. However, a vast majority of these products contain harmful chemicals such as hydroquinone, mercury and corticosteroids, which pose significant health risks.

The dangers associated with skin-lightening products are well-documented and are known to even cause cancer. Prolonged use of these products can lead to severe skin conditions, including thinning of the skin, discoloration and increased sensitivity to sunlight. Mercury, a common ingredient in many of these products, is a potent neurotoxin that can cause kidney damage, neurological issues and mental health problems. Hydroquinone, another widely used chemical, has been linked to ochronosis, a condition that causes bluish-black discoloration of the skin.

Moreover, corticosteroids, often included in skin-lightening creams for their anti-inflammatory properties, can lead to hormonal imbalances, stretch marks and an increased risk of infections. For pregnant women, the use of these products poses additional risks, including potential harm to the fetus.

The popularity of skin-lightening products in Nigeria cannot be divorced from the pervasive influence of colourism. Rooted in colonial history and perpetuated by global beauty standards, colourism privileges lighter skin tones while devaluing darker complexions. This bias is reinforced by media representations that predominantly feature fair-skinned models and celebrities as symbols of beauty and success.

Social media has further amplified the problem, with influencers and beauty brands promoting skin-lightening products to millions of followers. The lack of stringent regulations in the advertising of these products allows misleading claims to flourish, often overshadowing the associated health risks.

Studies and surveys confirmed Nigeria’s high prevalence of skin bleaching. The Ministry of Health’s Cosmetics Safety Management Programme (CSMP) found that 52 per cent of manufacturers incorporate skin-lightening agents into their products.

Additionally, a survey by the Nigeria Opinion Institute, public opinion polling organisation in Nigeria, revealed that 64 per cet of Nigerians believe skin bleaching is highly prevalent, with 97 per cent considering it common among Nigerian women. Awareness of skin bleaching is high, with over 76 per cent of respondents acknowledging it and nearly 40 per cent believing it enhances beauty and fashion.

An Al Jazeera report on the problem quoted a cosmetics shop owner in Lagos saying that 90 per cent of her customers come looking for SLPs.

As the market for such products booms, unregulated brands selling harmful quantities of skin bleaching agents becomes a big problem. In 2019, the government developed the Cosmetic Products (Prohibition of Bleaching Agents) Regulations, which prohibit the use of harmful skin-bleaching agents like mercury and restrict the allowable concentration of hydroquinone to 2 per cent.

Regulatory agencies such as the National Agency for Food and Drug Administration and Control, however, struggle to curb the influx of unregulated and counterfeit products into the market. Corruption, inadequate resources and a lack of public awareness further exacerbate the problem.

Salako called for targeted public health campaigns, stricter regulatory enforcement and community-driven advocacy to combat the practice.
The federal government has been actively promoting the use of safe cosmetic products free from hazardous substances.

Through CSMP, the ministry has conducted sensitisation, training and advocacy campaigns nationwide, including at the grassroots level, to influence behavioral changes by addressing the root causes of SLP usage and promoting healthier attitudes.

Salako concluded by emphasising the need for a comprehensive approach to address the issue, including public education, policy enforcement and community engagement to shift societal perceptions and reduce the demand for skin-lightening products.

The trend is driven by deeply rooted cultural and societal norms that equate lighter skin with beauty, success and social status. For many Nigerians, achieving a fairer complexion is not just a cosmetic choice but a perceived pathway to greater opportunities in both personal and professional spheres.
 
In China, a growing number of parents are taking drastic measures to ensure their infant children conform to traditional beauty standards. In their eyes, a child’s future success will depend on their physical appearance just as much as their education — and so they need to intervene early.

It’s a trend driven by social media. On Chinese social platforms, influencers are promoting a range of products that they claim will correct perceived physical imperfections in young children: from braces for 3-year-olds’ teeth, to helmets designed to mold a baby’s skull to a desired shape, and leg binds that supposedly make children’s legs grow straight.

Posts about these products often reach massive audiences, and they have fueled the growth of an entire baby beauty industry. On Xiaohongshu, an Instagram-like platform, there are now dozens of vendors selling anti-mouth breathing tape for children.

But the trend has sparked alarm among Chinese medical professionals. Doctors say that some of these products can seriously damage children’s health, causing brain damage and other permanent conditions. So far, however, the warnings have done little to dent their popularity.

Chinese society has long placed an outsized focus on physical appearance: Many employers, for example, still specify requirements for candidates to be a certain gender, height, and level of beauty.

As elsewhere, social media has only intensified the country’s obsession with beauty. Cosmetic surgery is exploding in popularity. Influencers are promoting extreme weight loss challenges. Cases of eating disorders are spiking, especially among teenage girls.






And taping baby’s eyelids to try to create a more aesthetic look.. my lord
I can’t imagine wanting to do these things to my little babies.

 
And taping baby’s eyelids to try to create a more aesthetic look.. my lord
In ancient China, they used to tape baby girls' feet to keep them as small as possible, creating deformity.

There was also some population who taped their baby's head to try to make their skull elongated in order to look like the "hybrids" who had real elongated skulls.

And we all know of the Victorian corsets... Worn by women from the youngest age, X-rays show a permanent change in bone and organ placement in the body. Some even died from their liver being pierced by the floating ribs.


 
In ancient China, they used to tape baby girls' feet to keep them as small as possible, creating deformity.

There was also some population who taped their baby's head to try to make their skull elongated in order to look like the "hybrids" who had real elongated skulls.

And we all know of the Victorian corsets... Worn by women from the youngest age, X-rays show a permanent change in bone and organ placement in the body. Some even died from their liver being pierced by the floating ribs.


So it’s not a modern world illness to want to change our features to be more beautiful or look a certain way. It’s a disease of the mind that goes back most likely for centuries beyond what we know about.

Humans are sick creatures.

The benefits of butt implants 👇
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Indeed, beauty standards and motivations seem to differ from country to country.
In another documentary, people were interviewed being asked their opinion of Korea vs Japan. Most of them said that even if both countries aim for perfection, Korea has a very fast pace of life that is tiring, which is why they had moved to Japan, where the pace of life is a little slower.
One of my favorite economists, Korean Ha-Joon Chang, once said about Koreans: "When Koreans were Confucian, they were bigger Confucians than the Chinese themselves. Now that we’ve embraced the free market, we’re trying to teach Americans that their market isn’t free enough." I think this tendency toward extremes is also reflected here.
 
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