NeuroFeedback, NeurOptimal and Electroencephalography

Very interesting thread. Just in case somebody in Spain is interested, I've found a couple of webs with a neurofeedback professionals directory. Have a look if interested:

https://sebine.org/neurofeedback/

https://sebine.org/profesionales/

http://www.circuloneurofeedback.es/p/neurofeedback.html

http://www.circuloneurofeedback.es/p/directorio_23.html

I had no idea this was so implanted in my country and I'll check it out with somebody close to my area in a near future (probably in a couple of months although I'll telephone them before).

Thanks for the good info.
 
Thanks for this interesting thread and to John who in the first post explained the nuts and bolts part of it.

I am going to look into it and will likewise report back. For me it would be more looking to possibly correct self-destructive behaviour linked to childhood. Even if it has lessened considerably with the years, an extra input to change the program of helplessness would be beneficial.

My partner Ysus did have a number of sessions over a few months back in 2011 with good results, but at that time, I was too apprehensive about someone unknown messing with my brain.

Neurofeedback also made me think about what the constant wifi exposure does to our brain chemistry. Frying the brain it has been said by many, but will it also undo over time what neurofeedback perhaps corrects? Hindering the correct cooperation between the billions of neurons and thus make "mush for brains" seems to be a likely result of wifi, if one observes the body politics.
 
I don't know if they will talk about NF, but it will be interesting to listen to this documentary about brain, shared on Marc Hyman's blog:
https://brokenbrain.com/trailer/?oprid=5679
I won't be able to listen :( , maybe somme of you could.
 
Gaby said:
I was also explained the neurophysiological changes in my brain stem with neurofeedback in terms of arousal:

_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arousal

Emotional stability vs. introversion-extraversion

Neuroticism or emotional instability and extroversion are two factors of the Big Five Personality Index. These two dimensions of personality describe how a person deals with anxiety-provoking or emotional stimuli as well as how a person behaves and responds to relevant and irrelevant external stimuli in their environment. Neurotics experience tense arousal which is characterized by tension and nervousness. Extroverts experience high energetic arousal which is characterized by vigor and energy.[9] Gray (1981) claimed that extroverts have a higher sensitivity to reward signals than to punishment in comparison to introverts. Reward signals aim to raise the energy levels.[9] Therefore, extroverts typically have a higher energetic arousal because of their greater response to rewards.

Four personality types

Hippocrates theorized that there are four personality types: choleric, melancholic, sanguine, and phlegmatic.

[...]

The differences in the internal system levels is the evidence that Eysenck used to explain the differences between the introverted and the extroverted. Ivan Pavlov, the founder of classical conditioning, also partook in temperament studies with animals. Pavlov's findings with animals are consistent with Eysenck's conclusions. In his studies, melancholics produced an inhibitory response to all external stimuli, which holds true that melancholics shut out outside arousal, because they are deeply internally aroused.[11] Pavlov found that cholerics responded to stimuli with aggression and excitement whereas melancholics became depressed and unresponsive.[11] The high neuroticism which characterizes both melancholics and cholerics manifested itself differently in the two types because of the different levels of internal arousal they had.

[...]

Associated problems

Altered experiences of arousal are associated with both anxiety and depression.

Depression can influence a person's level of arousal by interfering with the right hemisphere's functioning. Arousal in women has been shown to be slowed in the left visual field due to depression, indicating the influence of the right hemisphere.[27]

Arousal and anxiety have a different relationship than arousal and depression. People who suffer from anxiety disorders tend to have abnormal and amplified perceptions of arousal. The distorted perceptions of arousal then create fear and distorted perceptions of the self. For example, a person may believe that he or she will get sick from being so nervous about taking an exam. The fear of the arousal of nervousness and how people will perceive this arousal will then contribute to levels of anxiety.[28]
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Personality via twin studies is supposedly about 50% genetic and even the rest is supposedly via development before birth. Maybe Neurofeedback is trying to overcome born with biases in the cortex such as what is described here:

https://academic.oup.com/scan/article/12/4/671/2952683

Abstract
The five-factor model (FFM) is a widely used taxonomy of human personality; yet its neuro anatomical basis remains unclear. This is partly because past associations between gray-matter volume and FFM were driven by different surface-based morphometry (SBM) indices (i.e. cortical thickness, surface area, cortical folding or any combination of them). To overcome this limitation, we used Free-Surfer to study how variability in SBM measures was related to the FFM in n = 507 participants from the Human Connectome Project.

Neuroticism was associated with thicker cortex and smaller area and folding in prefrontal–temporal regions. Extraversion was linked to thicker pre-cuneus and smaller superior temporal cortex area. Openness was linked to thinner cortex and greater area and folding in prefrontal–parietal regions. Agreeableness was correlated to thinner prefrontal cortex and smaller fusiform gyrus area. Conscientiousness was associated with thicker cortex and smaller area and folding in prefrontal regions. These findings demonstrate that anatomical variability in prefrontal cortices is linked to individual differences in the socio-cognitive dispositions described by the FFM. Cortical thickness and surface area/folding were inversely related each others as a function of different FFM traits (neuroticism, extraversion and consciousness vs openness), which may reflect brain maturational effects that predispose or protect against psychiatric disorders.
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I've often thought about visiting this neurofeedback center very close to where I live, but never actually did it, until last night. No one was in, so I called and scheduled an appointment. The practitioner reacted very negatively when asked for a CV, but then said that he would talk about it when we meet today. It looks very promising indeed. But, the caveat always applies - it's not going to be a cure or substitute for utilising ones own free will. Still, if it is able to access preverbal brain structures - it gets very close to the heart of the matter, I would like to believe! This is simply why it's been so hard for me to get at actually what is wrong with me.

The idea of "Developmental Trauma" is something I find very useful and may be a better diagnosis for a lot of the cognitive and behavioral problems children as well as adults experience. I hope it gains more traction in the psychiatric profession in general because it really looks like this is the way to go. As Dr. Sebern says what is key is the relational aspect and the building of empathic skills.

I have finally received the book entitled Healing Developmental Trauma - How Early Trauma Affects Self-Regulation, Self-Image and the Capacity for Relationship by Laurence Heller and Aline LaPierre, which I got to know about from Bluefyre. From the preview on Amazon - the description of the adaptive style for Connection fits me like a glove. It was like a mirror, I felt so understood just reading the point-by-point description.

Well, I'll soon be off for my appointment. Thank you for the thread and links :hug2:
 
The center mainly catered to kids and the practitioners were not professionals, but had received training in a Korean neurofeedback system which they were using. I got an initial test done which showed a very high activation in the right hemisphere and very low activation on the left. The therapist wasn't very fluent in English, but I understood that he was talking about my brain basically being "too emotional". It wasn't as though I felt emotional, though I now I do remember being very excited about the neurofeedback. We did talk a little about nervousness, anxiety and lack of focus, though I felt I couldn't discuss more in depth subjects such as developmental trauma as he just didn't have the background for that stuff. In any case, in my impatience I immediately decided to sign up for 20 classes starting Monday.

I worried a little about a few things, ie. the competency of the therapist, the adequacy of their equipment. Also, they don't seem to have a lot of experience with adults. However, they are so conveniently located, and Kuala Lumpur traffic being what it is, this is actually a really important thing. I've arranged to have the sessions on Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays after work and Saturdays on the weekend.

I used to do a lot of yoga for keeping my emotions balanced, but I have let go of my regular practice, out of boredom and a bit of laziness as well. It does take a lot of will to wake up early in the morning to get a yoga session in before work. I don't do a lot of physical activity these days, minus the odd walk or jog around the neighbourhood or short yoga session. I also find intense physical experiences (I recently went waterfall abseiling) to be very jarring and overwhelming. Again, I'm impatiently hoping for some kind of resolution to my mind-body issues and developmental trauma through the neurofeedback. However, wisdom tells me that it is going to still be a step-by-step process and it ain't going to be done in a day.

I hope to report back later with my results.

It will be interesting to see whether neurofeedback really does produce lasting results - which is what seems to be lacking in most other top-down treatment modalities. I've tried the online CBT, which was good when I was working hard at it, but benefits stopped the moment I stopped doing the work.

That said, I am guessing that there is no substitute for using your own will and sustaining attention on various activities that we perform in daily life - be it our responsibility to society, our group work, or our own intellectual and artistic interests. I am hesitant to mention work on the self- I think this is the hardest work of all.

Thanks for reading :)
 
With regard to neurofeedback for ADD or ADHD, or at least neuropsychological conditions which often pass for an ADD/ADHD classification, I was given a synopsis by one of the neurofeedback clinics in my area for it.

Studies on ADD and ADHD are difficult to interpret because they use a variety of training protocols and a variety of outcome measures. Nevertheless, numerous case studies demonstrate the efficacy of neurofeedback in treating ADD and ADHD (Ramos, 1998; Wadhwani, Radvanski, & Carmody, 1998).

Uncontrolled studies using neurofeedback contingent on decreasing slow wave activity and increasing fast wave activity show that persons with attention deficit disorder (ADD) improved in ADD symptoms, intelligence score, and academic performance (Grin'-Yatsenko et al., 2001; Lubar, Swartwood, Swartwood, & O’Donnell, 1995; Thompson & Thompson, 1998;).

Only those individuals who significantly reduced theta over the training sessions also showed a 12-point increase in WISC-R IQ, improved Test of Variables of Attention (TOVA), and ADDES rating score (Lubar, Swartwood, Swartwood, & O’Donnell, 1995). One large multi – center study (1,089 participants, aged 5-67 years) showed that sensorimotor - beta neurofeedback training led to significant improvement in attentiveness, impulse control, and response variability as measured on the TOVA (Kaiser & Othmer, 2000) in those with moderate pre-training deficits. EEG biofeedback training has also been used successfully in the school setting (Boyd & Campbell, 1998).

A few controlled studies have also been done that compare neurofeedback to other treatments. The first of these was a study done with 4 hyperkinetic children under six conditions 1) no drug, 2) drug only, 3) drug and sensory motor rhythm (SMR) training, 4) drug and SMR reversal training, 5) drug and SMR training II, and 6) no drug and SMR training (Shouse & Lubar, 1979). Combining medication and SMR training resulted in substantial improvements in behavioral indices that exceeded the effects of drugs alone and were sustained with SMR training after medication was withdrawn. These changes were absent in the one highly distractible child who failed to acquire the SMR task.

In comparison to a waiting list control, Carmody and colleagues (2001) report conflicting outcomes as measured by the TOVA and teacher reports. One small (n=18) controlled study showed that enhancing beta wave activity and suppressing theta wave activity increased intelligence scores and reduced inattentive behaviors as rated by parents in comparison to the waiting list control (Linden, Habib, & Radojevic, 1996). A 15 session EEG neural training procedure led to improvements in the Wechsler Individual Achievement Tests and Child Behavior Checklist and Profiles in the experimental but not the waiting list control group (Patrick, 1996). Two studies, done in different laboratories comparing treatment with EEG biofeedback to stimulants (i.e., methylphenidate, Ritalin), demonstrated that both groups improved on measures of inattention, impulsivity, information processing, and variability as measured by the TOVA (Rossiter & La Vaque, 1995; Fuchs, Birbaumer, et al, 2003). In addition, Fuchs et al (2003) showed comparable improvement on the speed and accuracy measures of the d2 attention endurance test and on behaviors related to the disorder as rated by both teachers and parents for both neurofeedback and methylphenidate.

Others have shown that after 30 sessions of neurofeedback, 16 of 24 66.6% patients taking medications were able to lower their dose or discontinue medication totally (Alhambra, Fowler, & Alhambra, 1995). Finally, Monastra, Monastra and George studied 100 children with ADD/ADHD receiving Ritalin, parent counseling and academic support at school. Based on parent preference, 50 children also received EEG biofeedback. While children improved on the TOVA and an ADD evaluation scale while taking Ritalin, only those who had EEG biofeedback sustained these improvements without Ritalin.

In summary, these studies suggest the neurofeedback is better than no treatment and equivalent or better to medication. However, to be effective, at least 20 sessions of neurofeedback must be provided, with some clinicians providing 40 – 50 sessions. Rossiter (1998) tested patient-directed neurotherapy. A therapist provided up to 10 treatment sessions to train patients or parents of younger children to use the equipment, to monitor treatment, and to make changes in the treatment protocol, as necessary. Fifty sessions were then conducted at home using inexpensive, easy to operate systems. Results from the initial 6 patients showed marked improvement on the TOVA, suggesting that home neurofeedback may be an effective and cheaper alternative than therapist-directed treatment for many ADHD patients.

Taken together, these studies suggest that neurofeedback is an effective treatment for ADHD. Further studies are needed to examine long-term effects of training sessions and whether or not refresher sessions are needed to maintain the effects.

References
Alhambra, M.A., Fowler, T.P., & Alhambra, A.A. (1995). EEG biofeedback: A new treatment option
for ADD/ADHD. Journal of Neurotherapy, 1(2), 39-43.
Boyd, W.D., & Campbell, S.E. (1998). EEG biofeedback in the schools: The use of EEG
biofeedback to treat ADHD in a school setting. Journal of Neurotherapy, 2(4), 65-71.
Carmody, D.P., Radvanski, D.C., Wadhwani, S., Sabo, M.J., & Vergara, L. (2001). EEG biofeedback
training and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder in an elementary school setting. Journal of
Neurotherapy, 4(3), 5-27.
Fuchs, T., Birbaumer, N., Lutzenberger, W., Gruzelier, J.H., & Kaiser, J. (2003). Neurofeedback
treatment for attention-deficit / hyperactivity disorder in children: A comparison with
methyphenidate. Applied Psychophysiology and Biofeedback, 28(1), 1-12.
Grin'-Yatsenko, V. A., Kropotov, Yu. D., Ponomarev, V. A., Chutko, L. S., & Yakovenko, E. A.
2001). Effect of biofeedback training of sensorimotor and beta-sub-1EEG rhythms on attention
parameters. Human Physiology, 27(3), 259-266.
Kaiser, D.A., & Othmer, S. (2000). Effect of neurofeedback on variables of attention in a large
multicenter trial. Journal of Neurotherapy, 4(1), 5-15.
Linden, M., Habib, T, & Radojevic, V. (1996). A controlled study of the effects of EEG biofeedback
on cognition and behavior of children with attention deficit disorder and learning disabilities.
Biofeedback and Self Regulation, 21(1), 35-49.
Lubar, J.F., Swartwood, M.O., Swartwood, J.N., & O'Donnell, P.H. (1995). Evaluation of the
effectiveness of EEG neurofeedback training for ADHD in a clinical setting as measured by changes
in T.O.V.A. scores, behavioral ratings, and WISC-R performance. Biofeedback and Self Regulation,
20(1), 83-99.
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I did some training in both NF and hypnosis.

Three years ago I did a practitioner course in NF, but had two problems with that: One was that the course was a bit messy and so after finishing I didn’t really feel well equipped to start treating people. The other problem was diagonsitic: You can do diagnostics with the treatment devices, but it’s really crude. I started looking into QEEG and evoked potentials (EP), but that opens up another can of worms - it’s very expensive equipment and interpretation requires a lot of experience. I was experimenting with myself and found that it was quite hard to find the optimal treatment protocol - if I treated overarousal too much I became sluggish and had brain fog, if I stimulated the brain too much i would get tension neck pain.

At the same time I had the opportunity to start training as a hypnotherapist. Because to develop both things at the same time was impossible, I decided to put NF aside for the time being. But there is a possibility that I might reactivate that in the future.

The way I see things, the difference between NF and hypnosis is this: Hypnosis is very good at treating somatic problems - like pain - or to modify certain behaviours. It works quite well for anxiety, but I don’t think that for depression hypnosis should be the primary treatment. It can be used as an adjunct to treat conditions that are associated with depression. Just to give you an example of what hypnosis can do: I got a call from the obstetrician who had a pregnant patient who had to be admitted to the hospital due to intractable vomiting. She required iv fluids, because she was unable to hold anything in her stomach. After three hypnosis sessions she went home being able to eat and drink again.

As to self-hypnosis: I don’t think that there is much difference between hypnosis and self-hypnosis. Both are self-hypnosis in a sense - even though it is easier to do with a practitioner, as when doing it alone, you have to at the same time structure your self-hypnosis session and relax, which takes some practicing. But whatever the problem a patient/ client presents, I will always in the first session teach them self-hypnosis and encourage them to practice, as with all other “brain things”, the more you practice, the better you get at it. Because even to only use hypnosis for relaxation has a lot of benefits - once you have practiced a bit, you can put yourself into trance in a matter of seconds and you can use that to relax, calm and re-energize almost anywhere you are

So maybe the best course of action would be a combination of both, especially if there is anxiety involved - use hypnosis to alleviate anxiety and overarousal, and then after the patient has settled down somewhat (or concomitantly ?) train up the prefrontal cortex by bumping up alpha/ beta 1.

During my experiments with NF I had a similar experience as Gabi - as soon as I tried “to concentrate and do a good job”, the picture would become hazy, and if I got frustrated, it would completely disappear. After a while you get the hang of it - you have to at the same time concentrate, but also detach from yourself - it’s like a “wide spectrum focus”, but where you somehow don’t care what will happen. It’s a weird feeling that I haven’t experienced often, because for me to focus means to put all my effort AND my emotions into what I am doing. And I think that in that case it has a lot to do with anxiety, even though on a conscious level I don’t feel anxious.

Sorry for not being able to describe that in a more coherent manner.

So for the time being I’ll continue to focus on hypnotherapy, especially because I can use is in my daily professional practice. And once I feel more competent and have worked out where to go from where I am now, I might restart NF - because I find it very fascinating, even if totally daunting.
 
nicklebleu said:
I did some training in both NF and hypnosis.

Three years ago I did a practitioner course in NF, but had two problems with that: One was that the course was a bit messy and so after finishing I didn’t really feel well equipped to start treating people. The other problem was diagonsitic: You can do diagnostics with the treatment devices, but it’s really crude. I started looking into QEEG and evoked potentials (EP), but that opens up another can of worms - it’s very expensive equipment and interpretation requires a lot of experience. I was experimenting with myself and found that it was quite hard to find the optimal treatment protocol - if I treated overarousal too much I became sluggish and had brain fog, if I stimulated the brain too much i would get tension neck pain.
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I think this is a very good point. In looking around, it seems fairly easy to get a QEEG device (if you have the money) and start a neurofeedback practice charging good money. Some practitioners may be doing this not really knowing what they are doing and that can lead to limited or even adverse results. Seems important to find someone with proper training and equipment, experience, and who has demonstrated good results with clients.
 
Thanks everyone for the amazing information. This thread reminded me of an EEG I got done 3 years ago. I'm not sure if it's worth sharing since it was three years ago, but it made me think a lot about my state of mind back then. The EEG was prescribed to me by my psychologist at the time, which wanted me to take those studies to a psychiatrist. But given the fact that back in that time I decided not to take medication for what was going on, I just saw the psychiatrist once and then after my EEG got done didn't go back with her. So I never really understood what was the interpretation of my results.

Nonetheless my psychologist did see them and one thing she told me when I took them to her is that I had an irritative focus on my left frontal lobe. Which at that time she said may have been an explanation to my panic attacks, the nervous tic, anxiety and migraines I was having.

[This is a translation form the results i've got]

The procedure was the following:

Stroke obtained in digital format 30 minutes in somnolence and alertness, eyes closed and open, during rest and activated by hyperventilation (HV), photo stimulation and auditory sequence to generate P300 (power related to cognitive prostheses and attention, by detecting discrepant stimuli randomly mixed in regular sequence of identical tones)
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In the interpretation of the results it says:

Altogether, it shows moderate diffuse subcortical alteration with left frontobasal irritative activity that propagates contralaterally and temporoparital ipsilateral and increases during activation maneuvers without generalizing. Diffuse changes are compatible with possible contribution of vascular factors that may exacerbate irritative manifestations.
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It's like chinese for me.. so it's been a doubt I've had for some time. With the current readings and so on, I can understand that yes, maybe what the psychologist told me at that time was spot on, even the nervous tic I had was in my left eye. It could be interesting to see what could come out if I did that procedure again today, since I don't have panic attacks anymore or the nervous tic. Anxiety has not completely disappeared it does come and go from time to time, but it is certainly way more mild than before. My brother was looking into places for Neurofeedback in our country, so it might be worth considering.

Something curious that happened this past weeks that I thought might be worth sharing is the symptoms I got from taking GABA Calm. I first took 5HTP and GABA two years ago in the summer, and I got super anxious and panic attacky, so decided not to take it anymore. We received GABA Calm after months of buying it from e-vitamins, it took forever to get here. So decided to take it and it was not the best experience. I started having racing thoughts, lots of anxiety again and was very irritable.

It was pretty scary cause my anger issues were starting to rise again, but this time i was able to control the thoughts. It was interesting cause I would get very very mad at something, and in my mind the thought of throwing something around (like I used to do in my teens when I had lots of anger issues going on) or shouting a lot, would rise as a picture in my head for just some seconds, but didn't carry the act out and calmed down. It was interesting to recognize how these thoughts came to my head but didn't act in an impulsive way. I thought it was weird given the fact that some members have really found good results from taking GABA Calm. :huh:

Edit: spelling
 
nature said:
I don't know if they will talk about NF, but it will be interesting to listen to this documentary about brain, shared on Marc Hyman's blog:
https://brokenbrain.com/trailer/?oprid=5679
I won't be able to listen :( , maybe somme of you could.
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This does sound like a good series. I've signed up for it and plan on taking notes for the episodes that I'm able to watch. Towards the end of the video he mentions the fact that many reasons for having a 'broken brain' are found in other areas of the body. Regarding that, one of my neurofeedback assignments has been working on my heart rate variability, using a heart rate/breath monitoring app, available on iTunes here, and implementing resonant frequency breathing.

My current understanding:

Heart rate variability is the time between heartbeats. A higher variability means that the heart is more adaptive to both internal and external stressors, while a lower variability is associated with various illnesses as well as being under acute stress. Resonant frequency breathing involves finding the number of breaths per minute that seems to put the body in the right balance between the various sympathetic and parasympathetic states (typically between 5 and 7 breaths a minute). The app and the biofeedback equipment used in the office both have a special 'green zone' where the heart rate variability is at its healthiest peak, and as one breathes one can watch it gradually move into that zone. A little to the right and it's a sign of a struggle to get into parasympathetic activity. Well mine registered as all over the place, and I really struggled to get into a healthy zone during our first session. But we found the right amount of breaths/minute that leads to the greatest heart rate variability, and the practitioner adjusted the app to account for this. I've only done one session since then but I can say that the results have been pretty remarkable. Even a semblance of 'peace of mind' is kind of stunning!

This HRV and its balancing of the nervous system reminds me of Polyvagal Theory and all of the fascinating tidbits found there:

The human nervous system, similar to that of other mammals, evolved not solely to survive in safe environments but also to promote survival in dangerous and life-threatening contexts. To accomplish this adaptive flexibility, the human nervous system retained two more primitive neural circuits to regulate defensive strategies (ie, fight–flight and death-feigning behaviors). It is important to note that social behavior, social communication, and visceral homeostasis are incompatible with the neurophysiological states and behaviors promoted by the two neural circuits that support defense strategies. Thus, via evolution, the human nervous system retains three neural circuits, which are in a phylogenetically organized hierarchy. In this hierarchy of adaptive responses, the newest circuit is used first; if that circuit fails to provide safety, the older circuits are recruited sequentially.
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The practitioner recommended reading a few articles from Heart Math, since they were one of the first to begin marketing this technology. She advised to keep in mind that they're rather 'airy fairy' but that their methods work. Here's a brief intro:

Most of us have been taught in school that the heart is constantly responding to “orders” sent by the brain in the form of neural signals. However, it is not as commonly known that the heart actually sends more signals to the brain than the brain sends to the heart! Moreover, these heart signals have a significant effect on brain function – influencing emotional processing as well as higher cognitive faculties such as attention, perception, memory, and problem-solving. In other words, not only does the heart respond to the brain, but the brain continuously responds to the heart.

The effect of heart activity on brain function has been researched extensively over about the past 40 years. Earlier research mainly examined the effects of heart activity occurring on a very short time scale – over several consecutive heartbeats at maximum. Scientists at the HeartMath Institute have extended this body of scientific research by looking at how larger-scale patterns of heart activity affect the brain’s functioning.

HeartMath research has demonstrated that different patterns of heart activity (which accompany different emotional states) have distinct effects on cognitive and emotional function. During stress and negative emotions, when the heart rhythm pattern is erratic and disordered, the corresponding pattern of neural signals traveling from the heart to the brain inhibits higher cognitive functions. This limits our ability to think clearly, remember, learn, reason, and make effective decisions. (This helps explain why we may often act impulsively and unwisely when we’re under stress.) The heart’s input to the brain during stressful or negative emotions also has a profound effect on the brain’s emotional processes—actually serving to reinforce the emotional experience of stress.

In contrast, the more ordered and stable pattern of the heart’s input to the brain during positive emotional states has the opposite effect – it facilitates cognitive function and reinforces positive feelings and emotional stability. This means that learning to generate increased heart rhythm coherence, by sustaining positive emotions, not only benefits the entire body, but also profoundly affects how we perceive, think, feel, and perform.
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The practitioner cautioned against Heart Math's reasoning that positive emotions were the cause of heart rhythm coherence, and stated that she believed it mostly involved breathing properly, and training the nervous system. She pointed out that working with severely disturbed individuals for years proved to her that it was training the nervous system that led to positive emotions and not the other way around. Just try telling a severely abused, traumatized and criminally-minded adolescent to 'just be happy' for 20 minutes at a time. Yeah, right!

But resonant breathing biofeedback has been found to significantly decrease symptoms of stress and depression among industrial workers:

Results indicated that depression, anxiety, and stress significantly decreased after the training in the experimental group; they were supported by a significant increase in physiological measures. Overall, these results support the potential application of resonant biofeedback training to reduce negative emotional symptoms among industrial workers.
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There were only about 40 people in that study, but the results are intriguing. A 2016 meta-analysis of 232 articles concerning heart-rate variability biofeedback found that, as a treatment protocol, it was successful at treating depression and anxiety, and many other disorders.

It is striking to me that even after years of using EE and meditating that my machine could still be out of whack. But, with the state of the world the way that it is and the daily struggle within it, it doesn't really surprise me too much. I am extremely thankful for this chance to fix things on a deeper level. Very useful.
 
nicklebleu said:
So maybe the best course of action would be a combination of both, especially if there is anxiety involved - use hypnosis to alleviate anxiety and overarousal, and then after the patient has settled down somewhat (or concomitantly ?) train up the prefrontal cortex by bumping up alpha/ beta 1.
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I would have thought that NF would be more effective for anxiety as it allowed a person more access to certain areas of the brain. In my experience I found myself very resistant to hypnotic states. I think this was due to me being very inward oriented, the attention being focused on the brain's internally generated noise, and this may be from those pre-verbal reptilian brain structures Gaby explained earlier.

It's not totally accurate to say that NF "allows access to the brain", it's more like it gives you a clearer path toward changing or retuning the brain's anxiety producing machinery, by allowing you to clearly see what your brain is doing with your own consciousness. Once it is seen, it tends to be hard to unsee. Gurdjieff mentioned chemical processes that only occurred in the presence of light. That's very apt in this case.

nicklebleu said:
During my experiments with NF I had a similar experience as Gabi - as soon as I tried “to concentrate and do a good job”, the picture would become hazy, and if I got frustrated, it would completely disappear. After a while you get the hang of it - you have to at the same time concentrate, but also detach from yourself - it’s like a “wide spectrum focus”, but where you somehow don’t care what will happen. It’s a weird feeling that I haven’t experienced often, because for me to focus means to put all my effort AND my emotions into what I am doing. And I think that in that case it has a lot to do with anxiety, even though on a conscious level I don’t feel anxious.

Sorry for not being able to describe that in a more coherent manner.
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Hi nicklebleu, I somewhat grasp the experience that you are trying to convey.

It sounds like a process of achieving the optimal balance of sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous activity. One who is too used to operating in a sympathetically activated mode will probably be constantly anxious, since that system was evolutionarily meant to be a fight-or-flight system. I'm one of those people and from what you say, I think you are too. Laura mentioned the same anxiety as well. I would venture to guess that many of us find ourselves in this state. It was mentioned in Comets and the Horns of Moses about how cosmic activity could affect the behavior of humans, and if I'm not mistaken having comets flying around makes us a little more jumpy than usual?

I'm still trying to find that optimal balance of sympathetic and parasympathetic activity. It does seem like an daily learning process of how to cope with stress. What I can see is that I am getting more cerebral as days go by in dealing with stress. However the thing about thinking is that one may get too comfortable and confident in ones own thinking. This can lead to not being open to others and in fact, justifying negative ways of behaving, instead of working harder at external considering, ie. being excellent to each other, even if the other isn't someone that you particularly like.

A thought I also had is that if we didn't have this anxiety - I don't think we would have been motivated enough to find out about the terror of our situation, and Laura's work would probably have not come about? It's one of the signs of the times...
 
Hypnosis only works for a certain percentage of people, sort of a spectrum where it works very well for some few, somewhat for the largest majority, and not at all for others. It probably works best for sort of "covertly" changing thinking errors that we know about from Samenow.

But, there are issues that some people have that may need stronger sauce, so to say. For example, a difficult childbirth can set the substratum on "high alert" that sort of never calms down. Or very early childhood experiences can do the same. And once these brain pathways have been set, they are difficult to re-route or normalize without some direct intervention that consists of more than just changing thinking errors that are more or less conscious.
 
Laura said:
But, there are issues that some people have that may need stronger sauce, so to say. For example, a difficult childbirth can set the substratum on "high alert" that sort of never calms down. Or very early childhood experiences can do the same. And once these brain pathways have been set, they are difficult to re-route or normalize without some direct intervention that consists of more than just changing thinking errors that are more or less conscious.
Click to expand...

I had a difficult childbirth. My mother says that I cried all the time during the first year of my life. After that period I became much more peaceful child, but it's possible that some parts of my brain never calmed down. They did an EEG on me when I was a baby and they determined that my brain functioned normally, but they probably didn't have experts like these NF practitioners that we are talking about here. The attachment theory that NF practitioners use as an explanation for their work is also something very interesting, and it seems to me that it explains many things that other psychological theories can't.
 
Laura said:
But, there are issues that some people have that may need stronger sauce, so to say. For example, a difficult childbirth can set the substratum on "high alert" that sort of never calms down. Or very early childhood experiences can do the same. And once these brain pathways have been set, they are difficult to re-route or normalize without some direct intervention that consists of more than just changing thinking errors that are more or less conscious.
Click to expand...

I don't know if I had a difficult childbirth, but it was a late one. My mother told me that I came later because the possible due date for my birth was a month earlier. The doctor had to perform a cesarean section to get me out due to my enlarged shoulders.

About 11 months later, I contracted a Bacterial meningitis, which led to my hearing loss and other difficulties in my posture and coordination and cognitive functions. I would imagine the changes to my brain pathway was done from that.

I'm trying out a local NF practitioner in my area and ordered Fisher's book, as mentioned earlier here.
 
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