NeuroFeedback, NeurOptimal and Electroencephalography

Laura said:
Gaby, how many electrodes and where placed?

Chu and I tried the Neuroptimal (I think, Chu can correct me if wrong) thing. She said she had some small breaks or pauses or skips in her movie; I didn't think I had any but the therapist said there were some that were on the screen she was watching which shows the waves or something. Anyway, I don't feel any different and I'm wondering if this is the right thing for me to try?

For the initial EEG, 13 electrodes all over the scalp + 2 on each ear lobe to monitor right and left hemisphere. So 15 in total.

I never thought about the technology itself, I just read my therapist's papers and listened briefly to a youtube conference he gave on neurofeedback in stroke patients. I thought there were much less technologies than what people are bringing up in this thread. The neuropsychologist said briefly that there are basically 3 main technologies for NF in the world.

He uses:

Biograph Infinity Software, the system comes with EEG Suite responsible for processing, filtering, and represent the pattern of brain activity and changing amplitude of the frequency bands. To carrying the signal to the computer was used a Pro Comp 2 Infinity hardware system. The connection of the electrodes was single pole type, through which the potential field was recorded with an active electrode in the central region CZ

There might have been an update since this hardware protocol though, as I don't recall the keywords above on the intial screen when the software is starting up.

For the sessions, I start with CZ for greater focus and two electrodes for each ear lobe (hemispheres). After some time, he switches the electrode to the reticular formation. Basically an electrode in the back of CZ (central) region with a transductor paste to register electrical activity from deep within the subcortical and brainstem region. The paste leaves my hair all sticky and dry. I have to wash it after each NF session. Sometimes it comes off only after the second wash.

It might be the case that more sessions are needed. I didn't noticed anything particular with the first session. The second session was when I felt the big difference. It was all visual NF with CZ and brain stem regions. The neuropsychologist said that it was standard NF protocol because he didn't had time to review in detail my report, so it was basic and usual initial work. The protocol is described here:

https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,33124.msg745428.html#msg745428
 
From what I could see on this video, they use QEEG cap only for brain mapping, and then, after they do analysis of your brainwaves, they use the single electrode on your head for training, just like in the video in my previous post.

Here they use the same method: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwNmfx3cqZw

Here they also don't use the cap for training, but they do use many electrodes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeLrizp4DFM

Here they use the cap both for mapping and for training: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5wUTd_-jzk

Here are some more explanations about QEEG mapping, but the guy is not saying how is he training people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TElSjeBdJu8

I guess that you don't need the cap for training, and because it takes a lot of time to put it on, most of them avoid it for the training sessions.

Gaby said:
Biograph Infinity Software, the system comes with EEG Suite responsible for processing, filtering, and represent the pattern of brain activity and changing amplitude of the frequency bands. To carrying the signal to the computer was used a Pro Comp 2 Infinity hardware system.

I'm glad to hear that, because that's the same software/hardware that they use in my country.
 
Gaby said:
I re-started my NF sessions after a couple of weeks. The therapist told me that there is more research available in pubmed lately portraying the concept above. The activity in the subcortical and brain stem regions where incoming information is processed should be more symmetrical instead of being in fight or flight all the time.

In order to work the brain stem/subcortical region (reticular formation), I was placed music that would only play smooth when the electrical activity was correct. In my last session, the music was never smooth and often, it would be dead quiet. I simply don't know how to get the music to play smoothly. It was easier with the visual NF system during the second session. The therapist seems confident that I can make progress, but he told me point-blank that I have to consider very seriously starting some "exhaustive" physical exercise in order to help me heal the subcortical/brain stem regions. He also insisted on a diet, but I already have that covered. He clarified that we might not schedule more NF sessions until I cover both dietary and exercise aspects.

I'll see what I can arrange in terms of physical activity. During the last year, I dropped my Martial Arts activity down to 10 minutes on days I'm not on night shifts due to my working schedule. Nevertheless, the therapist said that I'll just have to work something out. He was deadly serious. He also used to have the same EEG pattern that I have on the brain stem area, so he seems to have a pretty good idea of the work I need to do.

The other areas that I worked with the visual NF system left me again very focused, aware and calm. Hope to produce the correct brain waves in the brain stem too. Much work ahead of me, but also much hope.

Surely there's hope, I am rooting for you! :cheer: I am impressed by the recommendations of your therapist, he sounds competent. And I can also relate to a brain that has fear/anxiety as its default, so I will try to find an exhaustive activity to do daily too, just to see if that makes any difference.

nature said:
Caution! It seems neuroptimal is not real NFB. I also asked for some info by these practitionners. One of them gave me appointment directly whereas I wanted first to see what is their protocole. Another one said me he'll see and contact me. I don't rely on this method (not the NFB, I speak of the neuroptimal). On french websites there are so many sites about it, so many testimonies but there is no research on it !! just testimonies. See pubmed: no result!! They label it NFB but the protocol seems different, there is no feedback in this device from what I understood. But I wait to see it with my own eyes. And I continue to search for real NFB. I'll let you know. Our time is to precious to waste it with fake methods.

I also got the "pushing for an appointment or rental" before they answered my questions, and it is the reason that I have been taking things slowly and haven't rushed to any commitments yet. In regards to Neuroptimal do-it-yourself method, I am having the same concerns as seek10, eventhough I haven't read the book yet:

I looked at this own, but have some question. You might have answers to this. Based on the Sebern F. Fisher's book " Neurofeedback in the Treatment of Developmental Trauma", therapist knows what we need to improve, what areas to focus on, how to set the sensors and adjust the software for this. With this NueroOptimal system, they send us the hardware and software for us to follow instructions. Not sure we have a expertise to do ourself. Probably, the local group you mentioned have some help. I want to try it before I commit for month worth of rental. Based on that I want to try for my kid. I want to call you to gather more information on this.

I am wondering whether my brain would interact with the machine and find its own way to treat itself on its own. I don't doubt neuroplasticity or the ability of our organs/systems to heal on their own given the right feedback, so I think it is good to search to find the "right feedback". On the other hand, it might be part of my brain's problems, worrying too much about every detail, and missing the opportunity/not taking the risk to try out something that might indeed be helpful! In any event, I'd be interested to see what you find through your searches, nature. Regarding the Othmer method, I checked their official website with practitioners around the world, and there's no trained neurofeedback practitioner in France.
 
seek10 said:
I looked at this own, but have some question. You might have answers to this. Based on the Sebern F. Fisher's book " Neurofeedback in the Treatment of Developmental Trauma", therapist knows what we need to improve, what areas to focus on, how to set the sensors and adjust the software for this. With this NueroOptimal system, they send us the hardware and software for us to follow instructions. Not sure we have a expertise to do ourself. Probably, the local group you mentioned have some help. I want to try it before I commit for month worth of rental. Based on that I want to try for my kid. I want to call you to gather more information on this.

From what I understand in reading some neurotherapy forums where people learn/share info, protocols:

There are a few approaches to doing neurofeedback.

Some use a brain map (QEEG) which is a snap shot of activity taken with eyes open and eyes closed. This is how Gaby's therapist is doing the treatment. Sometimes things can be over trained or under trained. It requires a lot of experience to diagnose and apply treatments. There is also feedback from the patient taken which can help tell whether things are going better or worse.

Neuroptimal and a few other systems that are geared for therapists who are not highly trained look at things in a different way. Instead of relying on a QEEG map, their idea is to look for a balance of frequencies. In a video I saw about NO, the creator explained that they are using math to shape the expected curve constantly and the feedback comes in as "blips" or "skips" in the music.


Neuroptimal uses 5 sensors.
Right ear has a ground/common ear clip at bottom earlobe and a clip on the top of the ear.
Left ear just has the clip on the top of the ear.
On the point between each ear and the top of the head there are sensors for Left and Right- C3 and C4

So far I have done a few home sessions. The first 2 or 3 did not give me results but were pleasant. Skipping/blips in the music have thresholds that change based on what the software sees. I have read that it won't do too many skips or too little so it won't over-train a slowly responding system (auto threshold as they called it)

After that I noticed a few things:
-I fall asleep faster. Usually I have a hard time falling asleep, even if I am tired because I am hyper sensitive to noise (car traffic outside, neighbors walking around etc).
-I wake up from sleep with less or none of the dread feeling that used to accompany waking up.
-I feel less tired at work, which I start very early in the morning. But it's hard to tell if that is from the improvement in weather from sub freezing all day to a normal winter.

-Anxiety is still there, but I feel it less in "my body" and more as a thought. It's easier to dismiss the thoughts with logic/reasoning- which reminds me of what was written here, that the frontal cortex cannot override the more base systems!
 
Thanks everyone for sharing all this information, your experiences and positive results. And thanks Laura for the new reading suggestion. I started reading it today, and the model it's quite remarkable.
 
Alana said:
I am wondering whether my brain would interact with the machine and find its own way to treat itself on its own. I don't doubt neuroplasticity or the ability of our organs/systems to heal on their own given the right feedback, so I think it is good to search to find the "right feedback". On the other hand, it might be part of my brain's problems, worrying too much about every detail, and missing the opportunity/not taking the risk to try out something that might indeed be helpful! In any event, I'd be interested to see what you find through your searches, nature. Regarding the Othmer method, I checked their official website with practitioners around the world, and there's no trained neurofeedback practitioner in France.
Indeed, there are no Othmer method practionner in France. But fortunately, there are other reliable methods. Nueroptimal is not, and the site adnf provides this latter.
I'll let you know as soon as I'll find good ones.
In the meanwhile, you can check these good sites in french :) :
http://www.biofeedback.fr/principes-02.html
http://institut.neurosens.fr/

Gandalf, you can check this sites, they seem to provide real NFB in Canada :)
https://www.institutpsychoneuro.com/
http://www.neurodezign.com/
 
Laura said:
Gaby, how many electrodes and where placed?

Chu and I tried the Neuroptimal (I think, Chu can correct me if wrong) thing. She said she had some small breaks or pauses or skips in her movie; I didn't think I had any but the therapist said there were some that were on the screen she was watching which shows the waves or something. Anyway, I don't feel any different and I'm wondering if this is the right thing for me to try?
With this device, you just listen to music or watch video on a screen, you can even do what you want during the session (close your eyes, read a book, sleep). You don't act on what you see or listen, it's passive, then it's not feedback! There is no qEEG previously neither, and the 2 electrods are put on the scalp in a standard way, the same for all clients. all health conditions. It brings just relaxation.
 
Hesper said:
Laura said:
[snipped]
I think that the information in this book (which combines a lot of things we already know and discuss, including Porges' "Polyvagal Theory") combined with The Work, AND Neurofeedback training, can be great assets to our toolkit for working on ourselves to become fully functional human beings with the potential to go beyond. It really can become a "Fourth Way" in every sense of the term. (And, of course, tending to the body via diet is also important, as we have found.)

So, peeps, get and read this book. It describes five types of survival strategies, i.e. false personalities, and maybe you can recognize yourself and better understand how to go forward, how to change the future by healing the past which can only be done IN the NOW.

I ordered a copy from Amazon. This could promise to be pretty transformative, when combined with everything we've already learned about diet, conscious effort, constantly expanding our awareness, etc.

I just ordered a copy as well. I started reading Fisher's book and will get into Heller's.
 
nature said:
Laura said:
Gaby, how many electrodes and where placed?

Chu and I tried the Neuroptimal (I think, Chu can correct me if wrong) thing. She said she had some small breaks or pauses or skips in her movie; I didn't think I had any but the therapist said there were some that were on the screen she was watching which shows the waves or something. Anyway, I don't feel any different and I'm wondering if this is the right thing for me to try?
With this device, you just listen to music or watch video on a screen, you can even do what you want during the session (close your eyes, read a book, sleep). You don't act on what you see or listen, it's passive, then it's not feedback! There is no qEEG previously neither, and the 2 electrods are put on the scalp in a standard way, the same for all clients. all health conditions. It brings just relaxation.

Actually, that is not the case. If your brain does not give the correct feedback, the music or video skips or stops. And, in fact, I DO feel a subtle difference since last night.


nature said:
Indeed, there are no Othmer method practionner in France. But fortunately, there are other reliable methods. Nueroptimal is not, and the site adnf provides this latter.
I'll let you know as soon as I'll find good ones.
In the meanwhile, you can check these good sites in french :) :
http://www.biofeedback.fr/principes-02.html
http://institut.neurosens.fr/

Gandalf, you can check this sites, they seem to provide real NFB in Canada :)
https://www.institutpsychoneuro.com/
http://www.neurodezign.com/

Unfortunately, what shows up in France or in French is usually suboptimal because very little good research in social sciences or psychology are done in France. French psychology is very much still in the dark ages of Freud. Hell's bells, the French are still afraid of yoga and tai chi in most areas!!!
 
Wikipedia has a comparison chart: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_neurofeedback_software

A couple of interesting ones:

Cygnet system: Neurofeedback: one- and two channel frequency band training and ILF (SCP) training according to Othmer, Alpha-Theta training. With additional Mitsar device or x23 accessory also tomographic (sLoreta) neurofeedback. Add-ons for sLoreta feedback and flexible system configuration fully approved but not available to clinicians. For research institutions only. Biofeedback: pIR far-infrared triple-sensor feedback

EBioo: Neurofeedback & Analysis one-, two- and four channel training,
Amplitude-, relative Amplitude-, Coherence-,
Band-Ratio-, Asymmetry-inhibit-Training
and more ..


About NeurOptimal it simply says "Neurofeedback" hyperlinked.

Clicking the hyperlink takes you to the article about what Neurofeedback is:

Neurofeedback (NFB), also called neurotherapy or neurobiofeedback, is a type of biofeedback that uses real-time displays of brain activity—most commonly electroencephalography (EEG), to teach self-regulation of brain function. Typically, sensors are placed on the scalp to measure activity, with measurements displayed using video displays or sound.

Then:

The Association for Applied Psychophysiology and Biofeedback (AAPB) is a non-profit scientific and professional society for biofeedback and neurofeedback. The International Society for Neurofeedback and Research (ISNR) is a non-profit scientific and professional society for neurofeedback.[48] The Biofeedback Federation of Europe (BFE) sponsors international education, training, and research activities in biofeedback and neurofeedback.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_for_Applied_Psychophysiology_and_Biofeedback

Also:

Applied Psychophysiology and Biofeedback is a journal devoted to study of the interrelationship of physiological systems, cognition, social and environmental parameters, and health.

Biofeedback: A Clinical Journal is a peer-reviewed, quarterly online journal for biofeedback practitioners, educators, health and mental health professionals, and researchers in psychophysiology.

Assorted interesting links on the topic:

http://www.breakthroughpsychologyprogram.com/neurofeedback---washington-dc

http://guelphneurofeedback.com/

http://www.braintrainuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/How-AAP-reached-conclusion-other-recent-evidence-July-2013-V3.pdf

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16161729

RESULTS:

Experimental subjects remained in treatment significantly longer than the control group (p <0.005). Of the experimental subjects completing the protocol, 77% were abstinent at 12 months, compared to 44% for the controls. Experimental subjects demonstrated significant improvement on the TOVA (p<.005) after an average of 13 beta-SMR sessions. Following alpha-theta training, significant differences were noted on 5 of the 10 MMPI-2 scales at the p<.005 level.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3366978/

In a proof-of-concept study, eight patients with depression learned to upregulate brain areas involved in the generation of positive emotions (such as the ventrolateral prefrontal cortex (VLPFC) and insula) during four neurofeedback sessions. Their clinical symptoms, as assessed with the 17-item Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression (HDRS), improved significantly. A control group that underwent a training procedure with the same cognitive strategies but without neurofeedback did not improve clinically. Randomised blinded clinical trials are now needed to exclude possible placebo effects and to determine whether fMRI-based neurofeedback might become a useful adjunct to current therapies for depression.

http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/07/14/real-time-fmri-neurofeedback-how-it-works-the-research-benefits/

https://psychcentral.com/news/2013/12/04/neurofeedback-training-for-ptsd/62825.html

https://rd.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10548-014-0384-4?no-access=true

http://neurofeedback-research.org/mediapool/106/1068657/data/Scharnowski_-_2015_-_CurrOpBehavSci.pdf

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053811913005028

Neurofeedback based on real-time fMRI is an emerging technique that can be used to train voluntary control of brain activity. Such brain training has been shown to lead to behavioral effects that are specific to the functional role of the targeted brain area. However, real-time fMRI-based neurofeedback so far was limited to mainly training localized brain activity within a region of interest. Here, we overcome this limitation by presenting near real-time dynamic causal modeling in order to provide feedback information based on connectivity between brain areas rather than activity within a single brain area. Using a visual–spatial attention paradigm, we show that participants can voluntarily control a feedback signal that is based on the Bayesian model comparison between two predefined model alternatives, i.e. the connectivity between left visual cortex and left parietal cortex vs. the connectivity between right visual cortex and right parietal cortex. Our new approach thus allows for training voluntary control over specific functional brain networks. Because most mental functions and most neurological disorders are associated with network activity rather than with activity in a single brain region, this novel approach is an important methodological innovation in order to more directly target functionally relevant brain networks.

https://neurofeedbacktraining.com/system
During a session, the client listens to music. The music/movie plays continuously when the brain is running “on course” (whatever that course is for that particular brain) but as soon as the neurofeedback system detects that the brain has “veered off” its path or has become less stable than what it just was, feedback is provided to the brain via a very brief pause in the sound. By offering this information the neurofeedback software gives the opportunity to the brain to adapt itself in response to the information, which then provides yet new and different information for NeurOptimal to mirror back. Like a dance, NeurOptimal and the brain adapt to each other microsecond by microsecond, dynamically adjusting their steps based on what the other has just done.

NeurOptimal targets sixteen different sets of frequencies across the right and left brain, each target naturally balancing off the effects of others.

Then there is this that appears to be ultra fancy: http://www.neurofield.org/neurofield-x3000/
Disclaimer:
NeuroField products and procedures have not been evaluated by the FDA. The NeuroField X3000 is registered with the FDA as a 510K exempt device. All NeuroField devices are meant for stress reduction and relaxation.

So, it appears that the OCD tech types in research are rather determined to keep the therapy in the realm of research and try to do "specific things" with specific areas of the brain.

On the other side there are the Bayesian types who apparently think that it is the whole network of the brain that benefits from the visual/auditory training.

I'm not sure which side I would choose. It seems that the commercially available systems are designed to do an overalll "Bayesian" feedback type of thing and it appears that it is helpful for the person who is generally functional and just wants better coherence and organization in their brain and to feel better. Obviously, we'll see because I intend to do a few sessions before making a final judgment about how well it works and TO WHAT EXTENT it works.

But then, it certainly may be that someone with some sort of deep disorder may need a more targeted approach. However, I don't trust that sort of experimental playing with the brain very much. I think the broad, systemic approach is probably safer. Yes, it is interesting to get the QEEG before engaging in the neurofeedback training, but that really isn't available to everyone not only due to access, but due to cost. The NeurOptimal system is inexpensive enough to experiment and if it works, why pay more?

Just want to add the plug for the book here: "Healing Developmental Trauma" by Heller and LaPierre. We go for the Top Down and Bottom Up approach, and the general Neurofeedback fits well with that.
 
nature said:
Caution! It seems neuroptimal is not real NFB. I also asked for some info by these practitionners. One of them gave me appointment directly whereas I wanted first to see what is their protocole. Another one said me he'll see and contact me. I don't rely on this method (not the NFB, I speak of the neuroptimal). On french websites there are so many sites about it, so many testimonies but there is no research on it !! just testimonies.

In the many years we've been doing research here, one thing I've learned is that you cannot judge by the amount of French papers. I often do searches in Spanish, French and English, and the ratio is something like 1-1-10 in terms of research available.

Also, here you are mistrusting it based on how the therapists came across to you, but not the technique itself. I was lucky, it seems, because I spoke with two therapists, who actually kindly called me back and spent a good 20 mins on the phone, answering questions before even offering to make an appointment. So you have to do some digging, and see who you find. :)

From our experience yesterday, and just to add to what Laura wrote, we were told by the therapist that it may take anything between 1 and 15 sessions to actually perceive some effects. It is Neuroptimal. We both chose the movie. I could hear tiny cuts in the sound once in a while, and one time the image also stopped, the break lasting a second at most. I had headphones on. The electrodes were as described by Divide by Zero. (The therapist explained that the electrodes in the ears are there as a control, to separate the actual brain activity patterns from the environmental stimuli.)

So far, no huge changes or anything, but I did notice a couple of things, which I will report later if the effects are not just a one-time thing.

There IS feedback, IMO: If your brain doesn't respond to the breaks in sound, the pauses remain there, until your brain cranks up again. The brain sends signals, the machine decodes the patterns, and when it discovers a glitch, it stops the sound/image. Your brain immediately adjusts, and the sound/music resumes. The therapist also explained that the electrodes are doing a scan of different areas all the time. So, the place where the electrodes are hooked doesn't mean that all the brain isn't being "scanned".

Here is an simple description:

You can think of NeurOptimal® training as holding up a mirror to your brain. Imagine you had not seen yourself in a mirror in a long time. Once you see your reflection you naturally start adjusting yourself, maybe standing a little taller, straightening up your hair and so on. The mirror provides the information you need to correct and adjust yourself. And so it is with the brain.

The brain has an inherent ability to self-correct when given the right information and NeurOptimal® is designed to provide the brain with the information it needs to make its own adjustments. Inconsistency, or abrupt changes in electrical activity in the brain, undermines optimal functioning of the brain. NeurOptimal® detects these abrupt changes and informs the brain of these sudden shifts through interruptions in the sound you are listening to. These almost imperceptible pauses invite your central nervous system to pull away from this less-than-ideal path it was on. This happens over and over until the natural self-correction becomes your new normal and your brain functions more efficiently, effectively and comfortably. When this happens, you sleep better, are less stressed, can focus more easily and feel the joy of an easier life, despite the challenges you may face from the outside.

As for the QEEG approach, so far the people I've spoken with are kind of against it. The way they explained it was that there are so many cases of people with head injuries and physical brain problems who DON'T manifest the disabilities they should, that science is really having to question the belief in the importance of each brain region. Some cases like that are mentioned in Raine's books, others in Pierre's book. I tend to agree with that view, and based on the research done by authors like Swartz about brain plasticity, the brain is super adaptable as an "antenna", so there is no reason that with some training, EVEN if there is a physical issue, the brain couldn't adapt and learn anyway. I wonder if sometimes they aren't retraumatizing/scaring a person by telling them "your [insert brain region] is inactive!", while in fact their brain has developed other ways of performing the activities that that area should perform. But of course, we'll have to see, and it may depend on each case, on when and where the damage was caused, etc.
 
Looking for reviews etc, found this:

https://graymatter7112.wordpress.com/2016/10/25/product-review-neuroptimal-neurofeedback-made-by-zengar/

I have been a Neurofeedback practitioner for 26 years. Beginning with systems within our field that promote that the practitioner set up and define the amount of ‘feedback’ an individual was going to get during their therapy depending on their diagnosis. This required us to set the software program and thresholds for the individual to attain their goals. These instruments leave a great deal of responsibility and authority to the therapist. Sadly, many times the therapist went to a weekend course before they put up a shingle stating they were a Professional in Neurofeedback.

Let’s look at how Neurofeedback traditionally works: a computer runs a software program that indicates how much strength (microvolts) of a signal or cortical activity (electro-magnetic information) that individual is displaying. Some Neurofeedback technicians believe that depending on where these little sensors are placed on the head they can directly influence the ‘brain-wave’ activity directly below that sensor. After working with a group of Neurologists in Indiana, I have come to understand that this little electrode is only reading a ‘summation’ of all the cortical activity that is being generated in the brain so the changes that occur with Neurofeedback is global, through-out the brain. Due to this concept it also stands to reason the brain being dynamic is always changing and it would be impossible to change one very small area of activity without it affecting the rest of the brain. It would be the same as if you went to the gym to work out and decided to only work your left bicep, no matter what exercise you did to increase muscle mass in the left bicep it would also affect the surrounding muscles (and make you look funny).

So, in the traditional model we measure the amount of microvolts (strength) of electromagnetic activity and the practitioner then sets up ‘thresholds’ or boundaries to ‘inhibit’ and ‘augment’ specific frequency levels dependent upon what they call a qEEG. The q’ is a 24 channel unit that takes a picture of the cortical activity under different brain circumstances and then produces a standard protocol driven on that 12-15 minutes of recorded activity. The individual is usually asked to sit still with eyes open then eyes closed, and asked to do a task under pressure such as counting backwards from 335 by 7’s. This measurement is recorded and depending on what the tech sees that day the next several months of brain training is focused on that static moment. The cons to this program from my perspective are that our brain is not static, and the individual’s cortical activity in that moment is probably not indicative of what they are like when they are not in a stranger’s office being pasted up with wires and fearful of what the results may say. The Pro’s are they are a pretty picture J

This static picture, traditionally then drives the protocols of sessions this person will take with that technician meaning the next 25-30 sessions will be set up to assume this person is ‘anxious’ due to the 23-38 hz activity displayed or they have ‘attention’ concerns due to the excess slow activity in the brain, with eyes open. This could be a somewhat accurate picture of that individual but very likely the qEEG has taken pictures of a brain that is influenced by the concerns of the process (lack of sleep the night before, full/empty stomach, dialogue with spouse/parent, work related issues or school related issues that day).

After using these traditional systems for several years I discovered a different method of recording and mirroring back the ‘brain events’ sometimes referred to as ‘turbulence’ within the cortical activity and achieving a neuronal balance; NeurOptimal. Dr. Val Brown created a system that works along with a dynamic (ever-changing) brain. His program has ‘targets’ within the software that actually encompasses the entire range of frequencies from 0.5 hz to 128 hz and allows the brain to self-organize by using ‘auto-dynamical’ settings. The result of this type of a global system is constantly mirroring the cortical activity to the individual this ‘information’ is received and results in a dance between the computer and the individual.

When we have a frequency or two that is too loud in the brain it is like having a trumpet blaring in an orchestra. We want the trumpets in the orchestra however, if you cannot hear any of the violins, then there is a problem. All of the cortical activity we have is good activity, however, when we get too much of certain frequencies then they become too loud and jeopardize the ‘jobs’ of other frequencies (like being able to sleep because your anxiety frequencies are too loud). This sounds simplistic however, suffice it to say, with NeurOptimal the brain is able to be dynamic and the system will respond in the moment and give information that allows that person to ‘retrain’ their brain.

The Pros of this innovative system are:

It is able to give information to all frequencies at one time, this program is global mirroring back information from 0.5 hz to 128 hz. This creates a relationship with the program rather than the technician picking and choosing specific frequencies to augment or inhibit. (In traditional systems, if you can take away ADHD, but depending on your experience and knowledge you can also create it by augmenting and inhibiting the wrong frequencies)

NeurOptimal is perfect for all people working on all conditions including Peak-Performance, not because it is a ‘one size fits all’ but because it is using the auto-dynamical thresholds and ‘meeting the person where their cortical activity is on that given day’, using whatever brain events that person has and detecting ANY turbulence in that cortical activity. The instrument will detect this activity within milliseconds and give information to the trainee that they had an interruption upon which time the system then will respond in kind. (256 times per second! Faster than any trainer could physically respond to the individual!)

The music is beautiful; using music created just for this program, Jeff Bova, wrote a seamless rendition that encompasses the individual.

The system is so self-regulated it is now able to be purchased as a home system for anyone to use and gain benefit from.

Therapists that do adjunctive processing, like we use at Cognitive Connections are able to do Cognitive Rehabilitation Therapy at the same time as they are doing Neurofeedback. We use this system for many concerns, strokes, TBI’s, Auditory Processing, ADHD, FASD, Autism and Sleep/Pain concerns. Programs like Bulletproof Executive are using the system to promote Peak Performance due to its ease and robust abilities. Other mental health therapists use it in their office for trauma, depression, PTSD, and bessel van der Kolk’s recommendations. .

The Cons

The visual graphics that the system uses right now is Windows media player, and although, this is beautiful, I personally would appreciate a different more visually appealing program. ( I understand Zengar is looking at changing that in its newest rendition)

The paste is still a concern with all systems, traditional and NeurOptimal, for now that is a concern we all just have to live with!

The program is so easy to use it is putting therapists out of business! No seriously reducing the number of months sometimes years a therapist is working with a client!

*It is of note that although I do not work for Zengar or gain monetary gain from writing this, I am a teacher and trainer of this method to other therapists and potential users of NeurOptimal. Should you have any additional questions about either traditional or Dynamic Neurofeedback systems do not hesitate to contact me at 317-258-7444 or http://www.cognitive-connections.com
Dr. Lise’ DeLong, PhD, CPCRT ~Developmental NeuroCognitive Specialist
 
Review from a user:

https://neurofeedbacktraining.com/news/neuroptimal-neurofeedback-review-survey

A review on NeurOptimal Neurofeedback posted on the BulletProof Forum website.

I just wanted to share my experiences thus far with NeurOptimal after having just completed my 15th session in just under a month. If you’re like I was, you looked everywhere for reviews online and found they were hard to come by. While I can only speculate why that is, I’d imagine it has something to do with the fact that it’s quite a pricey system, whether you’re buying, renting or going into a clinic.

Hopefully, by sharing my detailed experience you can make a more informed decision on whether it’s worth the investment. I’ll assume you know the basics about the system. If you don’t, I’d recommend you go to Zengar.com and read the pages under the “Explore” section which will answer most of the standard questions you have. This post just gives more detail on one man’s personal experience.

First off, I ended up renting a machine as opposed to going into a clinic. I read the manual and watched all the YouTube videos about how to hook yourself up.

The main reason why I wanted to use NeurOptimal is to improve my mental performance and up my game. I’m a fiction writer, and like all writers, deal with fears and uncertainties on a daily basis. While I wouldn’t call it writer’s block, I do find myself procrastinating and cleaning the house when I should be writing. I also wanted more focus and concentration. When I’m not writing, I work in online marketing, and it’s easy to get swarmed into the endless time-sucking websites that are out there!

I’ll break things up into five session chunks. I did journal throughout the process, but I’ll spare you ALL the details. This should be detailed enough!


Sessions 1-5

From after the first session, I noticed "something" was happening. Now, I’m one that tends to overanalyze things, so I was really focused on anything that could be different. Overall, I’d say there weren’t any dramatic differences. The one thing I remember most is going out to dinner with my wife and being a little more present and not off in my own little world thinking about work, etc.

From the beginning, I had every intention of doing a session every day. After talking with Jean, she explained that Zengar said it’s safe to do up to twice a day. But that I'd need to listen to my body and take rest if needed. I didn't play on doing twice a day (almost everyone seems to agree that's too much) but I had every intention of doing it once per day (more on this later).

After session #2, again I could tell “something” was happening. Perhaps that something was a little more prominent, although I had a hard time explaining what it was.

I’d say after my second session I was on a bit of a high. I felt really great about writing, and life in general. I felt optimistic about the future. Part of it I’m sure was that I was really excited that I was finally getting to use NeurOptimal, which was something I’d wanted to try for years.

For my third session, I tried the advanced session for the first time. Just FYI, the regular session is 33 minutes while the advanced session is around 45 minutes.

While my third session was going on, I clicked buttons on the computer, seeing what they did. Well, this really backfired on me. I clicked the “Autonav” button while the session was going and discovered this is something that you don’t want to do. J Again FYI, the newest version of NeurOptimal introduced a feature called Autonav which automatically adjusts the level (aka the number of skips you hear) during a session. After clicking Autonav, I noticed my session went ten minutes without doing any skipping. I knew that couldn’t be right. That’s when I adjusted the settings to a higher level and it began skipping non-stop, which wasn't good either!

So in the short term, I don’t think my third session really counted because I screwed it up by clicking too many buttons. But in the long term, I was glad I found out about this, because I realized the more you use the machine, the more it adjusts to your improved brain function. I was worried that over time, it would skip less and less and I'd get nothing out of the sessions. But as it turns out, the machine will skip roughly the same amount by being a little more particular as your brain gets better.

It was after my third session that I had a really bad night of sleep, waking up about two hours earlier than I normally do and not being able to fall back asleep. While I can’t quantify if this was because I ran three sessions in three days (with one advanced session) or if it was because of a storm that night, I decided to give my brain a break and take my first day off.

On Day 4, I wasn’t 100% confident that the connection was okay. Which seemed to be a common theme from sessions 4-8 worried that the connection wasn’t right. There’s a button called “Return Map” which basically shows squiggly lines. My understanding is the more sporatic the lines are the better, and I noticed mine were geometric-looking. I was told that this doesn't effect the quality of the sessions because NeurOptimal is smart enough to block out what they call line noise, but it did bother me and wanted to fix it.

There was one really interesting thing that happened, and again this could all be subjective at this point, but something else that I do is public speaking and online video courses. I was doing an online video, and I noticed a difference in how I spoke. Usually I stutter a little bit, using filler words like “uh” umm” ahh” “ya know” but I found myself doing that a lot less often. I also had a lot more confidence that I could improv a video as opposed to reading from a script. This was a benefit that I never would’ve expected!

On day five, it was a pretty normal session. I felt really calm afterword and was on a high even an hour or so after the session. While many factors could be at play, I noticed I was a little more drowsy during the midmorning then I thought I usually am. Usually the mornings are when I get a lot of work done, and the afternoons are when I start to feel groggy. When I first began with Neuroptimal, it seemed to be more of the opposite. I was a little tired in the mornings, but around 4 PM I felt good and I wasn’t as mentally drained as before.

Sessions 6-10

In summary, the first five sessions had a lot of highs and excitement. I constantly analyzed how I felt and always wondered if it was because of Neuroptimal that I felt that way or because it was just a natural thing.

Sessions 6-10 were a lot less exciting for me. First off, I worried a lot about whether the sessions were getting hooked up properly. I’d been told repeatedly by Jean, and several other NeurOptimal trainers that the line noise had no effect on the sessions. I did believe this to be true because the music still skipped and played as I thought it should, but I still wanted to get the best connection that I could. I tinkered with different headphones, positioning the computer away from me, and watched the computer screen constantly. In the end, headphones and keeping the zAmp further away from the computer seemed to do the trick.

One thing that I did begin doing is take days off more consistently. Where with before I was in a rush to get as many sessions done as possible, I eased up a bit in days 6-10 and only did it every other day. Jean told me this could be NeurOptimal starting to work for me. That I was in the mindset that “more is better” when in fact that might not necessarily be the case.

After my sessions I didn’t feel the high as they did before. But something I did notice, if anything, was how I handled life situations. NeurOptimal came to me at really a perfect time to test it out because I was in the process of buying and selling a home. That brought a ton of stress that I don’t normally have. I’ll never be able to quantify how I would’ve handled that really stressful week without NeurOptimal, but I’d have to think it did make the process a little bit easier.

Another positive thing that I noticed was I was less anxious around a group of people. I’m an introvert by nature, so while I enjoy being out with a group of friends, if there are eight or more people around I tend to be quiet and feel emotionally drained afterward. Well, I got to hang out with around twelve people one night and it felt like I was calmer than I normally would be. This probably sounds like I was over analyzing things, but this is another thing that I would definitely chalk up as not part of a placebo effect. NeurOptimal really has made me feel a lot more comfortable talking to other people. That is for sure.

While I wasn’t nearly as optimistic as I was after day 10 as I was day 5, I still was looking forward to continuing with NeurOptimal and seeing what it would do for me.

Sessions 11-15

I must say, sessions 11-15 have gotten a lot better! I really was starting to have doubts, but feel like the subtle changes that I started to feel become more ingrained in me.

On session eleven, I played my second round of golf since using NeurOptimal. Zengar mentions on their website that NeurOptimal can help with athletic performance, and they specifically say it can help with golf. I play weekly in a golf league, and my first round was nothing out of the ordinary. I shot a 45, which is a couple shots higher than I normally shoot. However, that was only a couple days into using NeurOptimal. For my second round, I shot a 39, which was my best round in three years of being in my golf league!!! Again, I didn’t want to give NeurOptimal all of the credit. I jhad a really good putting day. But something I have noticed in the rounds I’ve played since using NeurOptimal, I don’t get nearly as angry or frustrated as I used to after a bad shot. Also, I don’t think so much about my score and instead take it shot by shot. I deftly notice subtle changes while I’m playing golf, particularly when I'm standing over the ball about to hit a shot, that I’m convinced has nothing to do with the placebo effect.

Now, I won’t say everything has been perfect. As I mentioned in the beginning, the primary reason I wanted to use NeurOptimal was to improve my writing and concentration. After all of my sessions that I’ve done thus far, I haven’t noticed an extreme difference in this category yet. I’m optimistic that if I continue my sessions, I may start to see better improvements but as of today it’s been nothing drastic. Which isn’t to say that there hasn’t been any benefits in my writing. After my fifteen session which I did first thing in the morning, I got more writing done that day than I had in months. I wrote two blog posts, 1000 words of fiction writing, and I even wrote the first half of what you’re reading here while I was getting ready for bed. So a very productive writing day by my standards.

Some other things I noticed in sessions 11-15, I feel really good afterward, and the sessions in general are very relaxing. I very much look forward to when I get to do a session.

While I am getting a little better about procrastinating, I feel like I still have improvements to be made in this area.

After fifteen sessions, if I can say the biggest shift that I’ve noticed it would be in my communication. I seem to speak a lot more clearly. I’m also a lot more comfortable being around other people. And then even a lot better at listening, particularly to my wife. As an average, I also do seem to get more done at work. I don't get off task as I did before. Finally, I should at least mention that I feel like I’m more empathetic than I was before, but that is something that could just be a placebo effect.

And speaking of my wife, she’s done around six sessions thus far. While she’s the type of person that never would admit if it’s working or not, I have noticed that she deals with stress a lot better. Particularly with our home buying and selling, she’s handled situations a better than I think she would have otherwise. She’s also been sleeping more soundly. Before NeurOptimal, she’d had a three or four weeks stretch where she really was sleeping terrible. While she still doesn’t sleep like a baby, she seems to be a lot more consistently positive in her sleeping patterns.

The three things that people noticed NeurOptimal is most effective at was sleep, focus, and anxiety. Over 80% of people reported pretty sizable improvements in these areas.
 
More:
http://neurofeedbackny.com/faq/

Why the NeurOptimal Neurofeedback System?

Natalie Baker, Advanced NeurOptimal Neurofeedback Trainer:

” While there are a number different neurofeedback system devices on the market, after extensive research I decided on Zengar Institute’s NeurOptimal trainer for a number of reasons: The first and most important reason is that it is effective and safe. The training adds nothing to the brain; it simply feeds back information and so minimizes any side-effects. The trainee’s brain automatically decides how to use that information to optimize it’s functioning. In this way it is non-invasive, nor is there an operator external to the system deciding what it needs. With other systems, a “trainer” uses protocols to train the brain of the individual for such issues as anxiety, ADHD, etc. With NeurOptimal there are no protocols; rather the training provides a mirror for the brain to see how inefficient and inappropriate it is, allowing it to adapt naturally. An analogy: your body might be out of alignment, tilting, and you don’t realize it until you see yourself in a mirror, and then you straighten up. A real case in point: I have a client who, as a result of having been severely physically threatened as a child, would respond with rage towards anyone close to her in public spaces (for instance, in a crowded subway). After her seventh neurofeedback session she no longer felt anger in these situations but rather would notice her body shifting to create more space for herself: the brain responding appropriately and efficiently to the present moment. What a relief!

The second reason I selected NeurOptimal was that it is less expensive for consumers than other systems that need an expensive brain map to be generated by a technician before training can be done.

The third reason I selected NeurOptimal is that it does not require me to become an expert in neuroscience. I can do my job: caring for my clients, and it does its job: giving feedback to the brain about its behaviour. The system is fully automated and designed so that successful training is determined by the client’s central nervous system noticing shifts in its thoughts, emotions and behaviour, not by a human “expert” interpreting a graph on a screen.
 
This sounds absolutely fascinating,

It seems to me that based on what you guys have described, this could be mechanism through which one could finally reconciled the old "I know better but I can't help react this way"

Where knowledge sometimes isn't enough to catch certain reactions before they occur and take over our behavior. But using the body's own sensory system does seem like an amazing "hack" where you're catching what happens as it happens and see it before it has already taken off and it's too late.

I think I'll be looking into a practitioner, I looked over the NO website and there appears to be one that isn't too far away from where I live. I will give them a call once I get the chance.

I myself have been dealing with anxiety in crowds and scattered mindedness particularly when presented with new or stressful situations. And while understanding some of the literature regarding the role of certain figures in our lives that nourish certain traits in our lives, or understanding boundaries and so on.. the sensation is always there and even when I see it coming, I'm unable to put a stop to it.

I also found quite interesting what you were told by your practitioner Gaby, how physical activity seems to be beneficial. Which reminds me that I usually seem to be in a better place mentally while and after physical exercise.

Thanks for sharing all this information.
 
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