Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine

thorbiorn said:
Keit said:
thorbiorn said:
For those who have access to the Russian Channel 5 they might still be able to make it. According to _http://www.5-tv.ru/programs/1000077/It is being shown 23:20 Moscow time, that is in 35 minutes.
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That's the link for online watching.
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Thank you Keit, even though I missed watching the documentary when it was screened, I have found it on _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1QH03NtVQ0
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I found a TV summary in Russian which I have entered into Yandex.ru:

_http://www.pravda-tv.ru/2014/11/26/103672 said:
"Then came the moment of truth - in the case of the crash of Boeing in the sky over Ukraine. Experts announced the names of the perpetrators of the crime on an international scale.

In a new documentary journalist Andrei Karaulov "died As Boeing?" presents the latest data about the collapse of the Malaysian "Boeing" in the sky over Ukraine. In the course of an independent investigation experts were obtained evidence for the presence in the airspace of Ukraine, July 17, 2014 299 squadron of the air force of Ukraine, SU-25 - Board room 06,07,08 and 38. It is worth noting that the Ukrainian General staff had been denying the presence of the specified aircraft in the sky on that tragic day.


The film shows many evidences and proofs of the guilt of the Ukrainian air force in the collapse of the Malaysian aircraft July 17, 2014. In fact, there is a miracle obtained an interview with the first assistant to the Minister of defence of Ukraine, which States that the Ukrainian security forces have shot down a Boeing.

Independent investigation of the expert group showed that on that fateful day Malaysian Boeing was shot Ukrainian SU-25 attack aircraft (tail number 08), which involved piloting Dmytro Jacod, being Colonel of the Ukrainian air force. It is noteworthy that since the tragedy, and now the perpetrator of the crime is in the UAE. It is also worth noting that the Manager of the Kyiv center Anna Petrenko, who was in charge of the Malaysian Boeing on the day of the crash, on July 18, went on vacation, which still has not returned."

"As died Boeing" - a documentary film by Andrei Karaulov.
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thorbiorn said:
Some reflections on why Malaysia was left out of the group investigating the crash of the MH-17
_http://journal-neo.org/2014/11/28/mh17-malaysia-s-barring-from-investigation-reeks-of-cover-up/ said:
...

With the Dutch leading the investigation, the logic being that the flight originated from the Netherlands and the majority of the passengers were Dutch, it has formed a Joint Investigation Team (JIT). At the onset of its creation it seemed obvious that Malaysia would too be included, considering it lost the second largest number of citizens to the disaster and the plane itself was registered in Malaysia. Instead, JIT would end up comprised of Belgium, Ukraine, and Australia, specifically excluding Malaysia.

...
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Hoopla Mickey!! :curse:

And i was wandering how Dutch managed to get their gold back! What a weasels !

http://www.sott.net/article/289395-SOTT-EXCLUSIVE-Gold-gold-gold-Dutch-gold-boosted-Ukrainian-gold-looted-Russia-buying-BIG-Swiss-vote-gold-quake

:bye: :barf:

Y
 
When I've posted in Twitter link on Sott article http://www.sott.net/article/289740-MH17-investigation-update-Malaysia-excluded-Ukraine-able-to-veto-results another user has commented it "nonsense and misinformation".I viewed his posts and there was a link:

___http://eng.mynewshub.cc/2014/12/01/msia-accepted-as-full-member-of-mh17-joint-investigation-team/

KUALA LUMPUR – Malaysia has been accepted as a full member of the MH17 Joint Investigation Team which is focused on criminal investigation into the downing of the Malaysia Airlines (MAS) aircraft.

According to a statement from the Attorney-General’s Chambers today, the original members of the team are the Netherlands, Australia, Belgium and Ukraine.

It said Malaysia’s acceptance as a full and equal member of the Joint Investigation Team was conveyed by the Dutch National Public Prosecutor’s Office in a letter dated Nov 28.

The letter was received by Attorney-General Tan Sri Abdul Gani Patail today.
“As part of the continuing joint international criminal investigation process, the attorney-general will be leaving for The Hague on Wednesday to attend the Third Eurojust Coordination Meeting on the criminal investigation, scheduled for Dec 4,” said the statement.

The meeting will also be attended by Malaysia’s Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Khalid Abu Bakar.

The Boeing 777-200ER aircraft was shot down over eastern Ukraine on July 17 as it was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.

All 298 passengers and crew, including 44 Malaysians, were killed. – BERNAMA
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Just for sharing alternative piece of news)
 
Since it was Ukraine who tried to prevent Malaysia from joining the investigation, let's hope that this will ensure a more neutral investigation - or at least some leaks if Ukraine uses the non-disclosure agreement clause the four original members of the group agreed upon.
 
Found this on twitter. Apparently the Dutch investigators are neglecting to take all the pieces of wreckage back for analysis; only the 'important" ones. Aren't the supposed to pick up every scrap of the plane for reconstruction? There's also some conversation with more witnesses who saw a fighter plane in the area at the time of the crash. The video has subtitles

#MH17: Dutch «forgot» to rescue wreckage with bullet holes - http://youtu.be/-43NmR9ppBo
 
Netherlands don't allow anybody to mess with there business:

The Netherlands has rejected a demand to allow the UN to replace Dutch experts at the helm of the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 investigation. The proposal was made by relatives of the plane's passengers.

The law firm that represents 20 relatives from Belgium, Germany, the Netherlands, and the US filed a letter request for “the UN to appoint a special envoy to take over” the inquiries on Friday, Reuters reported.

"The investigation by the Dutch Safety Board is being carried out not only by Dutch investigators," Dick Schoof, a senior justice ministry official, wrote in a reply to the law firm.

Schoof then provided a list of 11 countries which have already contributed to the investigation team – including Malaysia, Ukraine, and Russia.

The relatives behind the demand accuse the Netherlands of “completely botching" the investigation and the legal framework of the case.

They base their accusations on the fact that Dutch experts have been unable to access the crash site in eastern Ukraine, which is engulfed by internal conflict between the Kiev government and the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics.

The letter also blames investigators for failing to meet international requirements to secure evidence, as well as their inability to build a legal case to prosecute those responsible.
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From:_http://rt.com/news/212895-mh17-dutch-reject-un/
 
According to this interview _http://fortruss.blogspot.dk/2014/12/meet-pilot-who-shot-down-malysian.html there were three fighter jets in the airspace where the MH17 was shot down. One of them had a few days before, and on special orders, been equipped with two air-to-air missiles. However, when it returned to base it was without missiles and the two other planes had been lost.

If I should comment on this article then first of all one does not meet the pilot who shot down the plane, it is merely a soldier who worked at the airport who reports what he saw on July 17th. Second, the report leaves some questions unanswered. For example. If it is true that the fighter jet only can reach 7.000 meters, then how can one explain the bullet holes in the Boing that flew at 33000 feet or about 10.000 meters? Also when I checked the performance a SU-25 can only reach 5000 meters with weapons _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-25#Specifications_.28Su-25.2FSu-25K.2C_late_production.29 However as one reads the text, it is possible that the rockets could have been fired from that height and reached the target, as they have a range of 10 km.

The question also arises, that if the two other planes were lost on the mission, who shot them down, because in principle the pilot with the two air-to-air could have shot down the other two jets. And if the pilot who came back said "It was not the right plane." Which plane would have been the right one? Putin's? or the planes of his comrades?

What is clear from the interview is, if it is true the planes were in the air on the 17th of July, then Ukraine has been lying about the absence of fighter jets in the airspace near the Boeing which then begs the question why they would lie? I think the answer to that is clear by now, but anyway here follows excerpts from the interview translated by Kristina Rus. The much longer Russian version with video of the interview, commentary and pictures can be found on_http://www.kp.ru/daily/26323.5/3204312/

- Where were you on July 17, 2014, the day Malaysian Boeing was shot down?

- I was on the territory of Ukraine, in the city of Dnepropetrovsk, the village Aviatorskoye. It is a regular airport. There at this time were based fighter jets and helicopters. Planes regularly flew on bombing missions, Su-25 attack aircraft bombed Donetsk, Lugansk. This lasted a long time.

- The aircraft flew every day?

- Daily.

- Why did you assume that these airplanes could be related to the downing of the "Boeing"?

- A few reasons. Out of the eight airplanes, which were based there, only two had "air-to-air" missiles. They were suspended.

- Why? Were there any aircraft battles in the air?

- No, the aircraft was fitted with missiles to cover themselves in the air. Just in case. Mostly they had air-to-ground ammunition. NURS, bombs.

-Tell us about July 17.

- Airplanes flew regularly. All day since the morning. In the afternoon, about an hour before the downing of the "Boeing", three attack fighters were raised into the air. I don't remember the exact time. One of the airplanes was equipped with such missiles. It was a Su-25.

- Have you personally seen it?

- Yes.

- Where was your vantage point?

- On site. Cannot tell you exactly.

- Did you have an opportunity to see specifically what the pylons of the aircraft where fitted with? Could you confuse "air-to-air" and "air-to-ground" missiles?

- No, I couldn't confuse it. They vary in size, plumage, coloration. With a guidance head. Very easy to recognize. Anyway, after a short time, only one airplane returned, two were shot down. Somewhere in the East of Ukraine, I was told. The airplane that came back, was the one with those suspended missiles.

- It returned without the missiles?

- Without the missiles. That pilot was very scared.

- Do you know this pilot, have you seen him?

- Yes.

- Can you tell us his name?

- Last name Voloshin.

- Was he alone in the airplane?

- Yes. The airplane is designed for one person.

- Do you know his name?

- Vladislav, I think. Don't remember exactly. Captain.

- Captain Voloshin came back. What happened next?

- Came back with blank ammunition.

- No missiles left?

- Yes.


"NOT THE RIGHT PLANE"


- Could you tell us, Alexander, the airplane came back from the mission, you still do not know about the loss of the "Boeing", but you were somehow surprised by the absence of "air-to-air" missiles. Why?

- These "air-to-air" missiles are not included in the basic ammunition package.

They are used only with a special order. Typically, the aircraft with such rockets were not to allowed into the air. Because this missiles should not be frequently transported in the air.

In all two such missiles can fit on this plane. Never before they had been applied. They were written off previously. But literally on the eve, a week before this incident (the loss of "Boeing" - Ed.) the use of these missiles was urgently renewed. And they put again into service. They have not been used for many years.

- Why?

- They were expired. Made back in the Soviet years. But by the urgent order their expiration date was extended.

- And on this day they were put on the plane?

- They always stood with these missiles.

- But didn't fly?

- Tried to let them in the air less frequently - every flight depletes the resource. But on this day, the plane flew.

- And came back without them?

- Yes. Knowing this pilot a little bit... (quite possibly, when the other two airplanes were shot down in front of him), he just had a frightened reaction, inadequate. Could out of fright or in revenge launch the missiles into a Boeing. Maybe he took it for some other combat aircraft.

- Are these missiles with self-guiding heads?

- Yes.

- When he launched them, they began to look for a target?

- No. The pilot himself finds the target. Then launches the missile, and it flies at the target.

- Could the pilot use these missiles against ground targets?

- It's pointless.

- What else do you remember this day? What did the pilot say?

- He said a phrase, when he was lead out of the airplane: "It was not the right plane." And in the evening there was a phrase to a question from one pilot to him, to Voloshin: "What's up with the plane?" To which he replied: "The plane was in the wrong place at the wrong time."

[...]
"THERE WAS NO FLIGHTS... BUT IT WAS SHOT DOWN"


- Let's try to recap the events. How could it develop? Three airplanes left on a combat mission. They were roughly in the same area, as Boeing. Two airplanes were shot down. This captain Voloshin was nervous, got scared, and possibly he mistook the Boeing for combat aircraft?

- Possible. The distance was long, he may have not seen specifically what kind of aircraft.

- What distance do these missiles need?

- At 3-5 kilometers they can find the target.

- And what is the speed difference between combat aircraft and the Boeing?

- No difference: the rockets have pretty good speed. Very fast rocket.

- Will catch up anyway? And height?

- It may easily at its maximum altitude - to 7 thousand meters - quite easily focus on the target.

- To reach it higher?

- Yes. The aircraft can simply lift the nose up, and can find the target with no problems and launch the rocket. The range of this missile is more than 10 kilometers.

- At what distance from the target does this rocket explodes? Does it hit the fuselage and explodes?

- Depending on the modification. Literally could when it hits the body or at a distance of 500 meters.

- We worked at the crash site and noticed that the fragments were trapped in the hull of the aircraft very closely. It seemed like it exploded literally two feet away from the Boeing.

- There is such a missile. The principle of fragments - it breaks, and the fragments hit. And then hits the main warhead of the rocket.

- Ukraine announced that on this day they had no combat flights. We checked different aggregate sources on the downed airplanes, Ukraine denied everywhere that its military aircraft flew on this day.

- I know about this. Ukraine also announced that two of these airplanes were shot down on the 16th, and not the 17th. And many times the date was changed. But actually, the flights were on a daily basis. I saw it myself. Even during the ceasefire there were flights, although, less frequent.
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thorbiorn said:
According to this interview _http://fortruss.blogspot.dk/2014/12/meet-pilot-who-shot-down-malysian.html there were three fighter jets in the airspace where the MH17 was shot down. One of them had a few days before, and on special orders, been equipped with two air-to-air missiles. However, when it returned to base it was without missiles and the two other planes had been lost.

If I should comment on this article then first of all one does not meet the pilot who shot down the plane, it is merely a soldier who worked at the airport who reports what he saw on July 17th. Second, the report leaves some questions unanswered. For example. If it is true that the fighter jet only can reach 7.000 meters, then how can one explain the bullet holes in the Boing that flew at 33000 feet or about 10.000 meters? Also when I checked the performance a SU-25 can only reach 5000 meters with weapons _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-25#Specifications_.28Su-25.2FSu-25K.2C_late_production.29 However as one reads the text, it is possible that the rockets could have been fired from that height and reached the target, as they have a range of 10 km.
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I have kept wondering about the bullet holes in the cockpit. If they had been made with a 30 mm cannon, could they have been made from the SU-25 if the SU-25 and the MH17 flew with a difference in altitude of 5000-7000 meters?

And if they were not made from a SU-25 then the question are if there are other options. The Ukraine Airforce has other planes like the SU-27 and the Mig 29 _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Air_Force, and even though they claim few of their planes are operational, that claim is hard to believe because how can their planes be shot down by the militia, if they have not first gone up in the air?

I looked up the specifications of the SU-27 and the Mig-29 and they can reach an altitude of 17000-19.000 meters according to _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-27#Specifications_.28Su-27SK.29 and _https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikojan-Gurewitsch_MiG-29 and both planes as well as the SU-25 are equipped with a 30 mm cannon. It seems the downing of the MH17 is a complicated affair.
 
About the 30mm bullets which made holes in the cockpit, there is an article by Eric Zuesse, who questions why no autopsy report was published for the two pilots of the MH17. One can read the story here: _http://fortruss.blogspot.fr/2014/12/another-mh17-cover-up-hiding-key-autopsy.html
 
thorbiorn said:
thorbiorn said:
According to this interview _http://fortruss.blogspot.dk/2014/12/meet-pilot-who-shot-down-malysian.html there were three fighter jets in the airspace where the MH17 was shot down. One of them had a few days before, and on special orders, been equipped with two air-to-air missiles. However, when it returned to base it was without missiles and the two other planes had been lost.

If I should comment on this article then first of all one does not meet the pilot who shot down the plane, it is merely a soldier who worked at the airport who reports what he saw on July 17th. Second, the report leaves some questions unanswered. For example. If it is true that the fighter jet only can reach 7.000 meters, then how can one explain the bullet holes in the Boing that flew at 33000 feet or about 10.000 meters? Also when I checked the performance a SU-25 can only reach 5000 meters with weapons _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-25#Specifications_.28Su-25.2FSu-25K.2C_late_production.29 However as one reads the text, it is possible that the rockets could have been fired from that height and reached the target, as they have a range of 10 km.
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I have kept wondering about the bullet holes in the cockpit. If they had been made with a 30 mm cannon, could they have been made from the SU-25 if the SU-25 and the MH17 flew with a difference in altitude of 5000-7000 meters?
[...]
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Update: There is an excellent article by Joe Quinn who explains why a SU-25 is a possible culprit: _http://www.sott.net/article/284868-MH17-Who-Dunnit-Western-Media-Silent-on-the-Evidence

The ceiling of 500http://cassiopaea.org/forum/Themes/CassiopaeaMorning/images/bbc/embed.gif0-7000 meters was for the old SU-25 design dating back to the seventies. But there is, as Joe describes in his article, a modernized version, the Su-25KM 'Scorpion'. This plane was designed in 2001 in cooperation between the Georgian company that produced the old version and the Israeli company Elbit Systems Ltd which provided the electronic equipment for the cockpit. On _http://www.globalresearch.ca/german-pilot-speaks-out-shocking-analysis-of-the-shooting-down-of-malaysian-mh17/5394111one can read more about the SU-25 cannon and the type of armament it can use, each of which is strong enough to destroy a tank. - And the MH17 had been hit by many of these. There happens to be a picture of a bullet that touched the wing before hitting the cockpit area:

csm_MH17_Schusse_Tragflaeche_c5b6a474a4.jpg

The picture was apparently later removed from Google pictures. In any case there is this Australian OSCE observer who shortly after the downing explained that the fuselage had been hit by very strong machinegun fire. He provided pictures which are shown in a short interview found on _http://www.softpanorama.org/Skeptics/Political_skeptic/Propaganda/Tragedy_of_flight_MH17/su25.shtml

https://youtu.be/7ze9BNGDyk4?feature=player_detailpage
One reason that 7000 meters was the 'old ceiling' was that the cockpit was not pressurized. However the Russian general Andreï Kartapolov, said on Monday July 21st, that the current version of SU-25 could go to 10.000 meters. Source: _http://www.lecourrierderussie.com/2014/07/boeing-version-russie/ To reach 10.000 meters it does not have even to be a SU-25KM as the upgraded Ukrainian version SU-25M1 Frogfoot will do if one reads the specification on this site: _http://www.redstar.gr/Foto_red/Eng/Aircraft/Su_25M1.html BTW. _http://www.redstar.gr/Foto_red/Eng/Aircraft.html carries the information about many Russian military planes.
 
Today the joint investigation team (JIT) launched an international call for witnesses to step forward, who might have seen any part of the alleged movements of a BUK system in East-Ukraine.

This is their video (in Russian with English subtitles) including transcribed parts of alleged intercepted phone calls about a BUK system transport:


https://youtu.be/olQNpTxSnTo

Although announced as an investigation into only one of several possible scenarios, it's completely in-line with the latest mainstream press coverage around here.
 
Here are two interlinked examples of recent coverage (March 19) in mainstream media around here:

_http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/buitenland/evidence-proving-flight-mh-17-was-taken-down-buk-missile

Especially this video got the ball rolling again: _http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/mh17-shot-down-buk-missile-definitive-proof

EDIT: forgot to include the latest SOTT article which is pertinent in this recent spate:

http://www.sott.net/article/294516-Reuters-lied-falsified-testimony-from-MH17-witness-re-Buk-missile
 
This helicopter exploding in mid-air, with several Malaysian Government Officials is suspicious?

Malaysia Helicopter Crash Kills Top Government Officials (video)
http://sputniknews.com/asia/20150404/1020477553.html#ixzz3WOatoCLJ

MOSCOW, April 4 (Sputnik) – A former Minister of Science of Malaysia, who also was a former ambassador to the US, was among six people who died in a helicopter crash in western part of the country on Saturday, local authorities said.

The authorities confirmed that Jamaluddin Jarjis, member of Malaysian parliament and former Minister of Science, Technology and Innovation, was onboard the chopper that crashed at a rubber plantation in the town of Semenyih, The Star reported.

Among people on board was Private Secretary in the Prime Minister's Office.

The helicopter crashed after exploding in mid-air at about 4.50 p.m. [09:50 GMT] local time. All the people on board, including another Malaysian high-ranking official have died.

Bodies of all six people who were aboard the helicopter have been recovered

Currently, police and fire fighters are working at the crash scene.
 
Reports of a double explosion in the Malaysia helicopter crash.

Security guard saw helicopter explode in mid-air (Photo - video)
http://news.asiaone.com/news/malaysia/security-guard-saw-helicopter-explode-mid-air

The Star/Asia News Network Sunday, Apr 05, 2015

SEMENYIH, Malaysia - Rubber estate security guard Roslan Harun, 53, said he saw a red helicopter exploding mid-air during a heavy downpour. "The moment I looked up, it exploded and I saw pieces of the helicopter fall to the ground. Then, there was a bigger explosion. It was louder," said Roslan, who was the first to call the police.

He said he was about 2km away in Jalan Sungai Lalang when he saw it fall into the plantation. Roslan said he was seeking shelter from the rain at the guardhouse when he saw the incident. Kg Sungai Pening villager Yusry Ahmad said he heard a sound from the ill-fated he­­licopter, much like a "clanging rusted fan" as it fell to the ground. "We were all out here waiting for the rain to stop because we heard that there was going to be a lunar eclipse tonight. Instead, we witnessed a helicopter crash," he said.

Plantation farmer Abdul Rahim Alin, 42, said news of the crash shocked the quiet village, which was used to having planes and helicopters fly over. "I never thought one would crash." Abdul Rahim said villagers here had organised a search party just minutes after they saw the helicopter go down. He said a group of eight men trekked through the plantation where they work before finding the damaged maroon tail of the wrecked helicopter on a hill in the rubber plantation. They found the rest of the helicopter and bodies some 200m from the tail.


VIP guests of Najib's daughter's wedding killed in helicopter crash
http://news.asiaone.com/news/malaysia/vip-guests-najibs-daughters-wedding-killed-helicopter-crash

PETALING JAYA - They left a wedding reception for the Prime Minister's daughter in Pekan and were headed for Kuala Lumpur where Rompin MP Tan Sri Dr Jamaluddin Jarjis was to attend another wedding reception.

They never made it. The helicopter carrying Jamaluddin, the special envoy to the United States; principal private secretary to the Prime Minister Datuk Seri Azlin Alias; pilot Capt Clifford Fournier; co-pilot Eidiana Baiziera; businessman Datuk Robert Tan, Jamaluddin's bodyguard Mohd Razkan Seran, 32, exploded in mid-air and crashed in Semenyih, just minutes away from its destination. The last of the bodies - all charred - were found by the Fire and Rescue Department personnel at 8.15pm yesterday.

It is believed that all six were killed instantly when the helicopter exploded over a rubber plantation along Jalan Sungai Lallang, Kampung Pasir Baru, during a downpour. The corporate AS365N2 Dauphin helicopter was owned by IGB Corporation and operated by Cempaka Aviation, which is owned by the pilot. Jamaluddin was scheduled to attend another wedding - that of PR1MA CEO Datuk Abdul Mutalib Alias' daughter.

Both Jamaluddin and Azlin, the previous director of the Economics Division at the Prime Minister's Office, had earlier posted a picture of them with several others at the reception. The helicopter had earlier dropped off Bukit Ibam assemblyman Datuk Wan Kadri Wan Mahusain at Bandar Tun Razak in Muadzam, Pahang, where he had to attend a funeral.

A witness confirmed that he had heard two explosions - one in mid-air - which strew debris all over the plantation.

Home Minister Datuk Seri Dr Ahmad Zahid Hamidi, who was at the scene of the tragedy, later confirmed that Jamaluddin was on board.

The bodies were taken to the Hospital Kuala Lumpur late last night. At the Hospital Kuala Lumpur, there was heightened security at the mortuary. Family and friends gathered at the compound, anxiously awaiting the arrival of the bodies.

At press time, Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak and his wife Datin Seri Rosmah Mansor as well as the newlyweds, Nooryana Najwa and husband Daniyar Kessikbayev, who were still in their wedding attire, were at the scene being briefed by Dr Zahid Hamidi. Transport Minister Datuk Seri Liow Tiong Lai said the Air Accident Investigation Division would investigate the cause of the accident.
 
angelburst29 said:
Reports of a double explosion in the Malaysia helicopter crash.
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There is already a youtube video on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc-7vDcY2lA
 
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