Has anybody from this forum become man number 4 (or higher)?
- Thread starter Hitsu
- Start date
Re: Does anybody from this forum, has became man number 4 (or higher)?
I'd say so yes, probably more than a couple people are even higher. Not that any of them actually care about their "rank". In terms of the forum's aims, all that really counts is the gathering and spreading of knowledge. Learning to control our little i's is just a means toward that end. Or so I think.
I'd say so yes, probably more than a couple people are even higher. Not that any of them actually care about their "rank". In terms of the forum's aims, all that really counts is the gathering and spreading of knowledge. Learning to control our little i's is just a means toward that end. Or so I think.
Re: Does anybody from this forum, has became man number 4 (or higher)?
I don't know of anyone, but then how could I know? Without reaching that level myself I doubt I could even perceive it osit
And I'd be extremely wary of anyone who claims they have reached that level.
Perhaps a different question to ask is, could the forum/network help produce man number 4? I think it's highly likely!
But it requires knowledge, super effort, paying attention to objective reality (www.sott.net) and genuinely helping others up the stair case (through the medium of the forum).
I don't know of anyone, but then how could I know? Without reaching that level myself I doubt I could even perceive it osit
And I'd be extremely wary of anyone who claims they have reached that level.
Perhaps a different question to ask is, could the forum/network help produce man number 4? I think it's highly likely!
But it requires knowledge, super effort, paying attention to objective reality (www.sott.net) and genuinely helping others up the stair case (through the medium of the forum).
Re: Does anybody from this forum, has became man number 4 (or higher)?
Exactly. If man can only perceive his own level of being then it would be impossible to distinguish any one with a higher level than himself. It is an interesting question which I have pondered myself though. This reminded me of WPP on sotttalkradio claiming to be "awake".RedFox said:
Hitsu
Padawan Learner
Re: Does anybody from this forum, has became man number 4 (or higher)?
from wiki:
For more info check In Search of the Miraculous: Fragments of an Unknown Teaching.
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Man 1 would correspond to enneagram 8/9/1.
Man 2 - 2/3/4
Man 3 - 5/6/7
Each of type has center that is dominating, one that is sub-used and one that is ignored, AND this is why they behave differently.
Man 4 on the other hand has balanced centers - so it should behave differently than man 1/2/3.
But that just my opinion, I don't know it is true.
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I want to know if somebody has fused magnetic center.
If reached - good job, we are on right track.
Otherwise it is worrying, since this forum has about 5k users
and discusses a lot about 4th way, so I assume some people will start to practice it. Let's say 10% of total number, that's ~1k member.
So 1k members try to become man #4 and if anybody of them HASN'T succeed at that - that's worrying.
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alkhemst said:
from wiki:
For more info check In Search of the Miraculous: Fragments of an Unknown Teaching.
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Do you know anybody or you just "assume" that they are on this level (or higher)?whitecoast said:
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I was thinking that man 4 will behave "different" than 1/2/3.RedFox said:
Man 1 would correspond to enneagram 8/9/1.
Man 2 - 2/3/4
Man 3 - 5/6/7
Each of type has center that is dominating, one that is sub-used and one that is ignored, AND this is why they behave differently.
Man 4 on the other hand has balanced centers - so it should behave differently than man 1/2/3.
But that just my opinion, I don't know it is true.
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This is WHY I am asking this question.whitecoast said:
I want to know if somebody has fused magnetic center.
If reached - good job, we are on right track.
Otherwise it is worrying, since this forum has about 5k users
Code:
563,578 Posts in 33,227 Topics by 5,237 Members. Latest Member: SatampraZeirosSo 1k members try to become man #4 and if anybody of them HASN'T succeed at that - that's worrying.
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Who is WPP?Keyhole said:
paralleloscope
The Living Force
Re: Does anybody from this forum, has became man number 4 (or higher)?
Show#82 - Who was Georges Gurdjieff? Interview with William Patrick Patterson
Show#94: Remembering Gurdjieff - Interview with William Patrick Patterson Part 2
William Patrick Patterson;Hitsu said:
Show#82 - Who was Georges Gurdjieff? Interview with William Patrick Patterson
Show#94: Remembering Gurdjieff - Interview with William Patrick Patterson Part 2
Re: Does anybody from this forum, has became man number 4 (or higher)?
If what you say is true, and we are all coming from the wilderness (levels 1-3) then discussing the levels of people becomes less than useless since we have no standard of measure the way an established school would, and would just invite all kinds of fantasizing. That being said, from the limited descriptions there may be a way to help determine SOME things, even if it's not the entire picture.
From my limited sussings out of people's character online and in some memoirs, I'd say they definitely have something of a permanent Attractor inside of them (basically a magnetic center) that draws them mind, body and soul toward something. In the Chateau's case that would be knowledge and service to others. I have felt something similar inside me at times, deviation from which can be psychologically devastating in the long term which I always DO pay for eventually. This lends credence to Gurdjieff's ideas about psychic energies being physical and capable of crystallizing in an individual. Of course, the fact that I have a crystallization does not mean I have a genuine magnetic center that can CLEARLY distinguish A from B influences. It could be crystallized on partly correct and partly false or completely false foundations. See how tricky this can get? ;)
I don't know how much stock you put in this, but according to the C's the enneagram personality system is only about 54 percent accurate. Modern psychology research tends to stay away from Type Theory and put more stock into Trait Theory, which HAS been shown to be more reliable in some respects (and tends to make more sense from a genetic standpoint).
This is WHY I am asking this question.
I want to know if somebody has fused magnetic center.
If reached - good job, we are on right track.
Otherwise it is worrying, since this forum has about 5k users
and discusses a lot about 4th way, so I assume some people will start to practice it. Let's say 10% of total number, that's ~1k member.
So 1k members try to become man #4 and if anybody of them HASN'T succeed at that - that's worrying.[/quote]
I think this is just navel gazing. Achieving level numbers is not the same thing as achieving RESULTS, which OUGHT to be the goal of any esoteric community dedicated to changing the course of humanity. To me, the fruits that Laura, Ark, the chateau crew, and their wide network of supporters and fellow researchers speak for themselves, in terms of providing penetrating research into the current and past state of the world, and trying to assemble communities of common living and mutual support free from self-interest. They have been attacked from every possible angle - intimidation, defamation, prosecution, and even financial. But they still survived and became all the stronger for it.
Keyhole said:
If what you say is true, and we are all coming from the wilderness (levels 1-3) then discussing the levels of people becomes less than useless since we have no standard of measure the way an established school would, and would just invite all kinds of fantasizing. That being said, from the limited descriptions there may be a way to help determine SOME things, even if it's not the entire picture.
From my limited sussings out of people's character online and in some memoirs, I'd say they definitely have something of a permanent Attractor inside of them (basically a magnetic center) that draws them mind, body and soul toward something. In the Chateau's case that would be knowledge and service to others. I have felt something similar inside me at times, deviation from which can be psychologically devastating in the long term which I always DO pay for eventually. This lends credence to Gurdjieff's ideas about psychic energies being physical and capable of crystallizing in an individual. Of course, the fact that I have a crystallization does not mean I have a genuine magnetic center that can CLEARLY distinguish A from B influences. It could be crystallized on partly correct and partly false or completely false foundations. See how tricky this can get? ;)
I don't know how much stock you put in this, but according to the C's the enneagram personality system is only about 54 percent accurate. Modern psychology research tends to stay away from Type Theory and put more stock into Trait Theory, which HAS been shown to be more reliable in some respects (and tends to make more sense from a genetic standpoint).
This is WHY I am asking this question.
I want to know if somebody has fused magnetic center.
If reached - good job, we are on right track.
Otherwise it is worrying, since this forum has about 5k users
Code:
563,578 Posts in 33,227 Topics by 5,237 Members. Latest Member: SatampraZeirosSo 1k members try to become man #4 and if anybody of them HASN'T succeed at that - that's worrying.[/quote]
I think this is just navel gazing. Achieving level numbers is not the same thing as achieving RESULTS, which OUGHT to be the goal of any esoteric community dedicated to changing the course of humanity. To me, the fruits that Laura, Ark, the chateau crew, and their wide network of supporters and fellow researchers speak for themselves, in terms of providing penetrating research into the current and past state of the world, and trying to assemble communities of common living and mutual support free from self-interest. They have been attacked from every possible angle - intimidation, defamation, prosecution, and even financial. But they still survived and became all the stronger for it.
JonnyRadar
The Living Force
Re: Does anybody from this forum, has became man number 4 (or higher)?
A few questions:
- If you knew, would that have any effect on your own life and/or how you do things?
- In your perception of success, why is the percentage of success on this forum worrying to you?
- If it were even possible for any of us to know that no one on this forum had reached the status of "man #4" - would you then scrap your involvement here? Stop trying? Stop Working?
Hitsu said:
A few questions:
- If you knew, would that have any effect on your own life and/or how you do things?
- In your perception of success, why is the percentage of success on this forum worrying to you?
- If it were even possible for any of us to know that no one on this forum had reached the status of "man #4" - would you then scrap your involvement here? Stop trying? Stop Working?
luke wilson
The Living Force
Re: Does anybody from this forum, has became man number 4 (or higher)?
Uhmm, I would say yeah, like the guys that run SOTT. Uhmm, but I don't know really, I haven't got any invites to a Man No.4 achievement award ceremony! To be honest, this is probably the only way I could tell if someone is man number 4. ;)
In all seriousness, I don't know, maybe the men number 4 know between themselves but to me, zero idea.
Uhmm, I would say yeah, like the guys that run SOTT. Uhmm, but I don't know really, I haven't got any invites to a Man No.4 achievement award ceremony! To be honest, this is probably the only way I could tell if someone is man number 4. ;)
In all seriousness, I don't know, maybe the men number 4 know between themselves but to me, zero idea.
Menna
The Living Force
Re: Does anybody from this forum, has became man number 4 (or higher)?
I usually don't judge based on number of posts. People could read the material and view the forum for years without posting much however I am going to go out on a limb and surmise that you are asking because you want to know if the information is worth your time or will it produce results. Why don't you take 6 months to read three of the recommended reading books post about the topics, with questions or insights and interact on the forum, practice EE and adding in times of reflection and journaling. Whats the worst that can happen? Its not for you and you move on.
I usually don't judge based on number of posts. People could read the material and view the forum for years without posting much however I am going to go out on a limb and surmise that you are asking because you want to know if the information is worth your time or will it produce results. Why don't you take 6 months to read three of the recommended reading books post about the topics, with questions or insights and interact on the forum, practice EE and adding in times of reflection and journaling. Whats the worst that can happen? Its not for you and you move on.
Re: Does anybody from this forum, has became man number 4 (or higher)?
Me too, I remember that G. said it's impossible to see beyond your own level. And how could it be otherwise? For example, if I'm not deeply convinced from experience that I'm mechanical, how could I see that another person is less mechanical than me? I would suppose that this other person acts based on the same understandings as my own, which may be totally wrong. For example I could suppose that someone does something simply because he/she "likes" it, or because he/she "is just like that", even though that person is actually doing something extremely hard for him/her based on years of training, to achieve something I neither know nor understand. In other words, if I have the knowledge but not the being, I can't understand the level of being of someone more advanced. And that's the point I guess - if I want to advance, I need to work on my own knowledge and being, and not speculate on other people's "status".
Exactly, I think we should just do what we have to do in order to advance, not what we want, and it's the hardest challenge there is.
Me too, I remember that G. said it's impossible to see beyond your own level. And how could it be otherwise? For example, if I'm not deeply convinced from experience that I'm mechanical, how could I see that another person is less mechanical than me? I would suppose that this other person acts based on the same understandings as my own, which may be totally wrong. For example I could suppose that someone does something simply because he/she "likes" it, or because he/she "is just like that", even though that person is actually doing something extremely hard for him/her based on years of training, to achieve something I neither know nor understand. In other words, if I have the knowledge but not the being, I can't understand the level of being of someone more advanced. And that's the point I guess - if I want to advance, I need to work on my own knowledge and being, and not speculate on other people's "status".
Menna said:
Exactly, I think we should just do what we have to do in order to advance, not what we want, and it's the hardest challenge there is.
Richs
The Cosmic Force
Re: Does anybody from this forum, has became man number 4 (or higher)?
No matter how much anyone here assured you that someone(s) here have achieved Man 4 level and also has a fused Magnetic Center, this would be no more than 'heresay' to you and would only encourage you to 'believe' something - whether or not it is true.
The ONLY way for you to discover if the Work does indeed produce these results, keeping in mind that the required time and effort is expended, is to do this Work yourself.
It is not that we do not wish to share some important knowledge with you but that any attempt by us to answer your question would be both useless and counterproductive both to you and to others here.
As others have suggested, do the Work yourself and see for yourself what might happen.
Hitsu said:
No matter how much anyone here assured you that someone(s) here have achieved Man 4 level and also has a fused Magnetic Center, this would be no more than 'heresay' to you and would only encourage you to 'believe' something - whether or not it is true.
The ONLY way for you to discover if the Work does indeed produce these results, keeping in mind that the required time and effort is expended, is to do this Work yourself.
It is not that we do not wish to share some important knowledge with you but that any attempt by us to answer your question would be both useless and counterproductive both to you and to others here.
As others have suggested, do the Work yourself and see for yourself what might happen.
