Something to Remember...

T.C. said:

I think one way a perfection program can manifest is in projecting it onto other members here - for me anyway. Then the fear of opening up comes from a fear of rejection: if I admit I have a problem with something, I'm not meeting the standards set by those who are 'stronger' than me - i.e., more perfect. But that in itself is a limitation of knowledge and understanding of the other members here and what the forum really is and how it works. Because the only prerequisite for participation is the desire to change for the better. Paraphrasing the C's: You don't have to already be 'there' in order to 'get it'.

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Am guilty of that as well! Thinking that I have been around here long enough, that I should be over “x, y or z”, completely forgetting that everything is a process and that every one of our struggles provides an opportunity for others and can give them courage to share problems that they may otherwise be too embarrassed to discuss.

I was also thinking that holding back keeps one at the level of an acquaintance, depriving us of feeling those shared bonds that give us the sense of being part of a large family of like minded souls. I know that every time I have read posts by people who were courageous enough to share very difficult issues that they were trying to overcome, I feel a much stronger connection to that person and deeper sense of compassion and caring. I can’t imagine thinking – “Can’t believe he/she is still working through that”. Funny how we are often so much harder on ourselves.

Joe said:

Fear of opening up is REALLY common, but what's behind it? Wrong beliefs usually, which is a limitation of knowledge and understanding. So by pushing ahead and finding courage to open up to others (to the right people of course), we objectively prove to ourselves that our beliefs are wrong, and in the process we actively "rewire" our brains and really learn something valuable. It's certainly a worthwhile endeavor.

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This is a good excerpt for footer. Thanks Joe.

I think it is so true. It can take time to enter in our minds how important it is to share and to listen. The stories of the others are part of our evolution, of ourselves also, so our stories also are part of it. For some people, like me, it is difficult to share our difficulties but it is a sort of discipline. Little by little the fear to be judged disappears. Also the fear to be oneself and true to others. But it is the only way to grow. In good company. And then the Universe participates also, helping all of us.

Thank you Joe!

Thank you so much for this post Joe. I have been going through some very rough experiences these last few months and I find that if I don’t daily read posts on the forum – especially emotional ones (which has been my main issue for decades) then I get ‘withdrawal’ symptoms. I am very grateful and benefit greatly from those who are brave enough to post and the objective and compassionate responses are great lessons for me to take on board.
I do daily think of the advice and guidance I have been given here and greatly benefitted from too. However, things come so thick and fast – as per the quote below! Thus I end up not knowing where to begin! Plus always had a tendency to rant and create ‘noise’ so felt better to sort my own issues quietly.

Theseus said:

solarmind said:

yea ...

( but .... when it hurts a lot it is hard to talk .... when it is over it hurts to "remember" it again )

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Yeah, that's true and sometimes before you know it, something else comes along...

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This is also underpinned by a parental programme from my dad – which I have actually been very grateful for in truth. The one that goes ‘You made your bed so you lie in it’. This made me become very ‘independent’ from an early age and made me ‘sort out’ my own issues/problems. Though I did network with ‘friends’ to the extent – as has been pointed out here –that it is all about me!
Example: Last night I was going through hell because my partner was arrested by the Turkish army in his village of Halfeti by the army for singing/letting of ‘steam’ with his friends. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time and 30 of them were arrested. Most probably glad for the forthcoming ceasefire against all the carnage they had been witnessing. The implications being ‘attending a Kurdish/PKK meeting’ and all the ramifications and police record for that despite being totally innocent. Even the possibility it was an enforced army ‘recruitment’ due to the Syrian/Turkish situation!! All manner of things were obviously going through my mind – and still are. Especially when he does not yet possess any army exemption papers and was due to come back here on Monday (except 2 people from his village were arrested at Gazientep airport the day before and he told me they were enforced into conscription there and then – so he was scared to go to an airport). This is still ongoing though he has been ‘released’ for now.

Learner:

• Quote
I've also come across the same thing some days ago and was immediately reminded of the forum and its networking aspect. Glad you brought this quote up here, Joe

I think, opening up and connecting is initially fearful as we don't know what may come out of this. Especially if we had negative experiences of doing so in the past, when we were met by rejection, ridicule, not been taken serious or other hurtful behaviors. Or if we have fear of the feedback which may be offered to us (at least in my case) - how it might be perceived etc. But this is internally considerate, because if we don't share about ourselves (i.e. opening up) we deprive others of the opportunity to help us (which helps them also) and silent readers to find something helpful in our story, in what we share, as well. Sometimes I think opening up equals a super effort, and for me the thought of taking a cold shower in the morning and in winter times comes to mind. You have to overcome yourself very much, but in the end you find it turned out beneficial.

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I did say many times that I was still not confident about opening up emotionally – scared of coping with the ‘fallout’ and ‘billboards’ that are necessary. But not having the therapy at present, I also didn’t feel strong enough to take the ‘hits’ even though they are for my own benefit. Plus ‘stresses’ have caused me to regress – nobody likes to admit such failures until they have again managed to rectify them I guess. But honesty to oneself is key here I know. Just I am overwhelmed keeping too many plates up in the air simultaneously. Success on some levels and regression on other areas! Continual diary entries to post on forum show procrastination as well as allowing general law to steal the time via ‘problem solving’.

So thanks to your encouraging post I will ‘give back’ what I have taken and benefited from the forum. Many questions have also arisen since my last posts too. We are all a work in progress and never could I give up – and in reality it is true ‘no man is an island’. We all need each other come what may. 

happyliza said:

This is also underpinned by a parental programme from my dad – which I have actually been very grateful for in truth. The one that goes ‘You made your bed so you lie in it’.

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That's a pretty stressful situation with your partner, glad he got released, and I hope he has learned his lesson (and you too!). On the above, what is rarely considered is that, if you made your bed, you don't HAVE to lie in it, you can instead remake it, and you can learn from others how to make it better than before.

happyliza said:

I did say many times that I was still not confident about opening up emotionally – scared of coping with the ‘fallout’ and ‘billboards’ that are necessary. But not having the therapy at present, I also didn’t feel strong enough to take the ‘hits’ even though they are for my own benefit. Plus ‘stresses’ have caused me to regress – nobody likes to admit such failures until they have again managed to rectify them I guess. But honesty to oneself is key here I know. Just I am overwhelmed keeping too many plates up in the air simultaneously. Success on some levels and regression on other areas! Continual diary entries to post on forum show procrastination as well as allowing general law to steal the time via ‘problem solving’.

So thanks to your encouraging post I will ‘give back’ what I have taken and benefited from the forum. Many questions have also arisen since my last posts too. We are all a work in progress and never could I give up – and in reality it is true ‘no man is an island’. We all need each other come what may.

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You are welcome, happyliza! I think, having relapses in areas we want to work on are quite common with many of us here, myself included. It seems like one step forward, one step back - which may eventually become to two steps forward and one step back. And even if it becomes two steps back and one step forward at times, this may also change to the better again. I've come across following quote in the past which goes something like this: "If I fall I stand up again; and even if I fall seven times, I stand up again seven times." And if there's a helping hand to grab, standing up becomes easier (presumed one wants to be helped, of course). I think, it is often shame and devaluing ourselves for our fall (for the dirt we may have gotten on our clothes due to it), and we anticipate the network to do the same (to be judged as mercilessly as we do judge ourselves). In this sense we are really the hardest on ourselves; and we all need each other for helping hands, thereby being less hard on ourselves and learning to help others in the best way we can, imo :) I think the network bonding helps to persevere one in going on, to keep trying even if we have fallen/relapsed again.

Hang in there and keep care

PS: Also agree with Joe about your partner, glad he had been released from the custody.

aleana said:

I was also thinking that holding back keeps one at the level of an acquaintance, depriving us of feeling those shared bonds that give us the sense of being part of a large family of like minded souls. I know that every time I have read posts by people who were courageous enough to share very difficult issues that they were trying to overcome, I feel a much stronger connection to that person and deeper sense of compassion and caring. I can’t imagine thinking – “Can’t believe he/she is still working through that”. Funny how we are often so much harder on ourselves.

Click to expand...

When I don't share very much and also don't read of the struggles and experiences of others - if I take myself "out" so to speak, I feel like being no more than an acquaintance to the forum (or even like a cold robot sometimes), like excluding myself and thereby also feeling excluded. It can be like standing behind a glass door, seen by the others (and you can see them), but they can't access you (due to this glass barrier) - unless you are willing to step out of that isolation ... And in terms of another analogy, it can also feel a bit like coming to a big house in a cold winter's night. You see the light of candles shining through the windows, and it looks quite cozy. A great feast is going on in there. Everyone has something to contribute to the talks, the music and the meal; but you don't know what to bring to the table and how to even approach it. Maybe you just have a bottle of water and feel, you've nothing else to tell than of snow and cold winds. So you can stay out freezing or you can choose to walk in; even if you're in, there's still a distance to the table. You can just stay by the door or eventually walk to the table. Maybe the simple water you have is needed, and there may be interest of what you have to tell about your journey (even if you think it might be boring). Which new dangers or wonders may be waiting there in that cold winter's night? They can be best dealt with or enjoyed together, and that builds bonds :)

Often I feel like I am standing behind that glass door - in the forum and in real life. And I am probably more of a door lurker than a table approacher at many times. So I have admiration as well for those people who manage to share their most difficult struggles, which are in parts my own as well and which I was not brave enough to bring to the table (yet). ... But I find, this thread is encouraging to not give up, to practice opening up which may become easier by time like it is with the cold showers when the body gets more adapted to them.

Thank you Joe for sharing with us.

I do struggle emotionally, and reading your post I found courage to open up.

Wodnik

Thanks for this. Connection, honesty, and sharing. In some form we've heard it before, but it helps to be reminded and it be stated in a concise way. I'm trying to put it into action. I usually have a problem with posting too far and in between. Does anyone ever have a posting too much problem? :P

Beautiful motto. I think it sums up the importance of this forum superbly. Thanks for sharing, Joe! :)

Joe said:

happyliza said:

This is also underpinned by a parental programme from my dad – which I have actually been very grateful for in truth. The one that goes ‘You made your bed so you lie in it’.

Click to expand...

That's a pretty stressful situation with your partner, glad he got released, and I hope he has learned his lesson (and you too!). On the above, what is rarely considered is that, if you made your bed, you don't HAVE to lie in it, you can instead remake it, and you can learn from others how to make it better than before.

Click to expand...

yes this is so helpful to see there is real opportunity and reason to remake our "bed" ...

And dear Happyliza, this is so stressful your situation with the partner, glad he got released .. huh! that must be a lot of stress for both of you ...

In that kind of highly stressful situation I don't feel stress reactions at that moment, as whole my body and mind is focused how to get out of a problem, but about few days when it is resolved, or even a week after that, whole that hardness of the stressful situation just go over me ... and than I used to feel so depressed and tired, and it can stay for days with me ... but few of the last situation I had, thanks to some readings and guidance I read from the Forum, books etc, I used to observe that feelings and the things that put most of the stress on me, and I learned a lot from that .. but still same as you said, I also feel that if I start rant here, it will be just to much noise, so I rather work it out silently, and using that experience to go into more articulated ways of dealing with it, with the pen and paper writing down notes upon relation to things I learn here ...and I realize that tiredness and depression after stress, if I don't let the negative emotions to fog my brain, but use them to observe the reason for them, don't take my energy out of me any more ... effect is more rewarding, specially if I manage to focus to see if the reason is within my programs and buffers, that might provoke stressful situations ...

Joe:

Fear of opening up is REALLY common, but what's behind it? Wrong beliefs usually, which is a limitation of knowledge and understanding. So by pushing ahead and finding courage to open up to others (to the right people of course), we objectively prove to ourselves that our beliefs are wrong, and in the process we actively "rewire" our brains and really learn something valuable. It's certainly a worthwhile endeavor.

Click to expand...

Quote from: happyliza on February 27, 2016, 11:41:52 PM

This is also underpinned by a parental programme from my dad – which I have actually been very grateful for in truth. The one that goes ‘You made your bed so you lie in it’.

Joe:

That's a pretty stressful situation with your partner, glad he got released, and I hope he has learned his lesson (and you too!). On the above, what is rarely considered is that, if you made your bed, you don't HAVE to lie in it, you can instead remake it, and you can learn from others how to make it better than before.

Click to expand...

Yes good point Joe. The new motto is an eye opener and timely reminder that we can 'remake' the bed!

Not sure what my lesson was meant to be re Turkey as the visit was genuine and to make amends with his family as well as try to sell his land - had a buyer. I cannot prevent somebody from wishing to go, but I DID explain the General 'sod's' Law and about also being a vector, staying extra vigilant etc etc. After that I could only put my faith in the Universe. There had not been 'trouble' in Halfeti before, but I knew it was just a matter of time, praying he could be in/out in 4 days, which was the plan. General Law took over!! I was not surprised but obviously cannot relax until he is back safe again. He was not vigilant enough with his friends and him being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Army was looking for a group who had burned vehicles in outer villages. Not all of the 30 impounded were released!

Learner:

You are welcome, happyliza! I think, having relapses in areas we want to work on are quite common with many of us here, myself included. It seems like one step forward, one step back - which may eventually become to two steps forward and one step back. And even if it becomes two steps back and one step forward at times, this may also change to the better again. I've come across following quote in the past which goes something like this: "If I fall I stand up again; and even if I fall seven times, I stand up again seven times." And if there's a helping hand to grab, standing up becomes easier (presumed one wants to be helped, of course). I think, it is often shame and devaluing ourselves for our fall (for the dirt we may have gotten on our clothes due to it), and we anticipate the network to do the same (to be judged as mercilessly as we do judge ourselves). In this sense we are really the hardest on ourselves; and we all need each other for helping hands, thereby being less hard on ourselves and learning to help others in the best way we can, imo :) I think the network bonding helps to persevere one in going on, to keep trying even if we have fallen/relapsed again.

Hang in there and keep care

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Thank you Learner for the empathy and encouragement. I will persist I know. The last few months have been very stressful so pacing myself and coping how I could became my priority. I am also hopping from one place to another dealing with house maintenance problems whilst having had a virus akin to swine flu which is on the island, together with stress due to my partner's situation prior and now. I know that these things we will automatically have to 'cope' with when TSHTF and keep bearing that in mind. So diet went initially cos I couldn't keep anything down! It was a matter of eating what I could and unfortunately it was only evil gluten I could tolerate!! Maybe could have been much different had I have completed the detox and was on Iodine by then, who knows.

I will elaborate things on my own thread when I get some peace to do so - have been jotting down some notes already.
We are all learners with L-plates - and I am grateful for your understanding and openness for me to relate to Learner. :)

Solarmind:

yes this is so helpful to see there is real opportunity and reason to remake our "bed" ...

And dear Happyliza, this is so stressful your situation with the partner, glad he got released .. huh! that must be a lot of stress for both of you ...

In that kind of highly stressful situation I don't feel stress reactions at that moment, as whole my body and mind is focused how to get out of a problem, but about few days when it is resolved, or even a week after that, whole that hardness of the stressful situation just go over me ... and than I used to feel so depressed and tired, and it can stay for days with me ... but few of the last situation I had, thanks to some readings and guidance I read from the Forum, books etc, I used to observe that feelings and the things that put most of the stress on me, and I learned a lot from that .. but still same as you said, I also feel that if I start rant here, it will be just to much noise, so I rather work it out silently, and using that experience to go into more articulated ways of dealing with it, with the pen and paper writing down notes upon relation to things I learn here ...and I realize that tiredness and depression after stress, if I don't let the negative emotions to fog my brain, but use them to observe the reason for them, don't take my energy out of me any more ... effect is more rewarding, specially if I manage to focus to see if the reason is within my programs and buffers, that might provoke stressful situations ...

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Thank you Solarmind. Yes the stress does also come after too. For me atm after each 'incident' my partner relates on the phone recently. Prior to the New Year I feel the accumulation of 'stress' related incidents is what most likely affected my immune system, as it did the same time the previous year, thus succumbing to the viruses. We are not out of the woods yet as he cannot get out of that hell hole of a soon to be military zone until he has got his papers. So until he gets back to Cyprus anything can happen as it is so volatile there. He has no intention of going back there despite his family and younger siblings being there. His elder brother has just been arrested in Germany (he is with the father there), for being there illegally. Another story - so I not only report daily on what is happening re Syria, refugees, etc., but I am personally affected by it!

Thanks Joe for posting the quote, very beautiful and encouraging!

Learner said:

aleana said:

I was also thinking that holding back keeps one at the level of an acquaintance, depriving us of feeling those shared bonds that give us the sense of being part of a large family of like minded souls. I know that every time I have read posts by people who were courageous enough to share very difficult issues that they were trying to overcome, I feel a much stronger connection to that person and deeper sense of compassion and caring. I can’t imagine thinking – “Can’t believe he/she is still working through that”. Funny how we are often so much harder on ourselves.

Click to expand...

When I don't share very much and also don't read of the struggles and experiences of others - if I take myself "out" so to speak, I feel like being no more than an acquaintance to the forum (or even like a cold robot sometimes), like excluding myself and thereby also feeling excluded. It can be like standing behind a glass door, seen by the others (and you can see them), but they can't access you (due to this glass barrier) - unless you are willing to step out of that isolation ... And in terms of another analogy, it can also feel a bit like coming to a big house in a cold winter's night. You see the light of candles shining through the windows, and it looks quite cozy. A great feast is going on in there. Everyone has something to contribute to the talks, the music and the meal; but you don't know what to bring to the table and how to even approach it. Maybe you just have a bottle of water and feel, you've nothing else to tell than of snow and cold winds. So you can stay out freezing or you can choose to walk in; even if you're in, there's still a distance to the table. You can just stay by the door or eventually walk to the table. Maybe the simple water you have is needed, and there may be interest of what you have to tell about your journey (even if you think it might be boring). Which new dangers or wonders may be waiting there in that cold winter's night? They can be best dealt with or enjoyed together, and that builds bonds :)

Often I feel like I am standing behind that glass door - in the forum and in real life. And I am probably more of a door lurker than a table approacher at many times. So I have admiration as well for those people who manage to share their most difficult struggles, which are in parts my own as well and which I was not brave enough to bring to the table (yet). ... But I find, this thread is encouraging to not give up, to practice opening up which may become easier by time like it is with the cold showers when the body gets more adapted to them.

Click to expand...

Thanks for these words Learner, it's another example of how sharing and opening up can be so good. I couldn't have say it better but I feel exactly the same way.

And this:

Joe said:

Fear of opening up is REALLY common, but what's behind it? Wrong beliefs usually, which is a limitation of knowledge and understanding. So by pushing ahead and finding courage to open up to others (to the right people of course), we objectively prove to ourselves that our beliefs are wrong, and in the process we actively "rewire" our brains and really learn something valuable. It's certainly a worthwhile endeavor.

Click to expand...

So true, and yes, definitively a worthwhile endeavor!

I realize most of our fear of opening up are just our programs running amok, and that if we can manage to do the effort we are practicing one way of "doing what it doesn't like", and also, kind of practicing non-anticipation by just doing it without expectation of what might result from it.

This seems relevant

Joe said:

Fear of opening up is REALLY common, but what's behind it? Wrong beliefs usually, which is a limitation of knowledge and understanding. So by pushing ahead and finding courage to open up to others (to the right people of course), we objectively prove to ourselves that we our beliefs are wrong, and in the process we actively "rewire" our brains and really learn something valuable. It's certainly a worthwhile endeavor.

Click to expand...

I think part of the problem is that people spend most of their early years opening up to the wrong people simply because they don't have many options, and that's what they base their working model of relationships on. That is some powerful conditioning. But it's just that, a conditioned program that, like you say, is a limitation of knowledge and understanding. When we find people we can truly open up to about difficult subjects it's a real life-changing experience to realize 'oh, we're actually working through this' or 'wow, that deep dark secret of mine was small potatoes all along?' Definitely worthwhile. Thanks for the post.