2 Enemies – Obstacles

[Menna]

Very clear...Work on the things you can control (Your machine) and don’t let the thing you cant (Extraterrestrial beings) stop you from working on the things that you can control. Don't let it take up space in your mind.

Maybe as you climb up the esoteric ladder one step at a time and gain more and more control of your machine you become harder to feed off of and the beings feeding leave you alone...Almost like its harder for them to feed off you if you are in control of your machine and they don’t bother with you anymore and go on to the other million/billion mechanical people...This is most likely wishful thinking and putting something that is so abstract into 3D language...Thinking out loud more or less.

 

[agni]

Hi anart, I have trouble understanding what you are trying to say. I do not mention that the knowledge of hyperdimensional realities needs to be ignored, but rather it should be kept separate from work on the machine. Work on the machine is work on the machine, learning about environment is learning about environment. I am saying that when working on machine there is no need to bring aspect of hyperdimensiality. Machine buttons are machine buttons, no matter what influence pushes them. Am I missing something here ?

 

[Deleted member 4320]

Hi anart, I have trouble understanding what you are trying to say. I do not mention that the knowledge of hyperdimensional realities needs to be ignored, but rather it should be kept separate from work on the machine. Work on the machine is work on the machine, learning about environment is learning about environment. I am saying that when working on machine there is no need to bring aspect of hyperdimensiality. Machine buttons are machine buttons, no matter what influence pushes them. Am I missing something here ?

But, Work requires objectives.

Men have made mobile phones, for the sake of creating them or because they want to communicate at a distance?

Work requires take beyond the 'machine', otherwise, it will be only work of the 'machine' "working" over the 'machine'.

Or I am wrong?

 

[anart]

Hi anart, I have trouble understanding what you are trying to say. I do not mention that the knowledge of hyperdimensional realities needs to be ignored, but rather it should be kept separate from work on the machine. Work on the machine is work on the machine, learning about environment is learning about environment. I am saying that when working on machine there is no need to bring aspect of hyperdimensiality. Machine buttons are machine buttons, no matter what influence pushes them. Am I missing something here ?

It's not so much that you're missing something as it is that you're being exceptionally rigid in your thinking about it. The fact of the matter is that it is a very, very complex subject, as is reality and the human condition itself. When you make such harsh delineations about what does and does not matter, you are imposing your subjective understanding on what 'is' - that never works very well.

For example, it was the rudimentary understanding that I developed about hyperdimensional realities that opened me up to the possibility of the Work and its application in a lifetime. So, it could be argued that without that rudimentary understanding (and by rudimentary I mean the understanding that is capable from a 3d perspective, which is not really an understanding at all!), I would not have been open to the importance of the Work. While this was just my personal experience, it is an example of how varied and complex this entire experience is. Things are rarely as simple and delineated as you seem to want to make them.

Menna, I think you've put it very well.

 

[Deleted member 4320]

Very clear...Work on the things you can control (Your machine) and don’t let the thing you cant (Extraterrestrial beings) stop you from working on the things that you can control. Don't let it take up space in your mind.

I think it is close enough, but at first, should define, what mean "Don't let it take up space in your mind".

Man as a 'machine' does not know what belongs to him and what not.

I think we should constantly strive to understand what is mean to be the STO and behave as a unit of STO, because it is basis order to maintain independence and our own space. Otherwise that what Menna wrote can merely enhance false conviction of self-control and lack of discernment.

 

[anart]

I think we should constantly strive to understand what is mean to be the STO and behave as a unit of STO

As an STS being, how do you know what is meant by STO behavior? I mean, really, truly, know? I would posit that you can't know that, else you'd not be an STS being.

I think it is an illusion to tell oneself that one is 'behaving as an STO unit' because it is all but impossible from our current state of being. I think it is much more wise to focus on what is before you to do, and to work on, in order to - realistically and fundamentally - 'clean your machine'. fwiw.

 

[Menna]

"Take up space in your mind"

If you are focusing on what you cant control then you arent focusing on what you can - non productive thought takes up space/time.

 

[agni]

Thanks anart.

you're being exceptionally rigid in your thinking about it.

Yeah, I know. Pisses me off sometimes. I guess my next question is, if I may, how to become less rigid about things ? Thing is, I heavily rely on logic. For me it's prove or disprove, makes sense or does not. Logic can be faulty, and in hands of the idiot even dangerous. I do acknowledge that, especially considering the fact that my machine is certainly not in tune. I do not know any different way to look at things. Or in other words, I do not know any better. I am not sure if I even can learn to see and process things much differently.

Perhaps my understanding of the machine is built on wrong foundation. Thing is I see it as a lens of some sort akin to interface between soul or some sort of inner energy and reality. And when the lens are dirty, or mis-tuned, I logically make conclusion that anything else seen through the lens, until machine is more or less workable will be skewed, including perception of reality, intent, aim and pretty much anything else. Thus anything beyond that point in terms of energy distribution I find rather questionable. From what I have observed, principle of the machine is rather universal, thus I make logical conclusion that same probably applies to everyone. Perhaps I underestimate driving abilities of others and their dealing with machine. But looking at this world, I hardly see any evidence to oppose that logic. So it makes me feel pretty confident to say how it works (from limited 3D perspective). Pretty twisted, ey ?

I do not really care to find out that I am wrong. I attempt to give best of my questionable logic to public, in hopes that someone will disproves me through counter logic. I only will be grateful to that whether I like it or not. But ironically, it's no one else responsibility to do so, nor I feel entitled to that. Pretty ironic, isn't it ?

For example, it was the rudimentary understanding that I developed about hyperdimensional realities that opened me up to the possibility of the Work and its application in a lifetime. So, it could be argued that without that rudimentary understanding (and by rudimentary I mean the understanding that is capable from a 3d perspective, which is not really an understanding at all!), I would not have been open to the importance of the Work. While this was just my personal experience, it is an example of how varied and complex this entire experience is. Things are rarely as simple and delineated as you seem to want to make them.

Oh, true that ! However, you did not end up with New Age type of thinking and their understanding of hyperdimensional realities, didn't you ? Why is that ? (that if you do not mind to share of course)

I am pretty sure I am being rigid again and stuck in same type of thinking. It's embarrassing that for all these years of being here, I still seem to have very little idea about what is going on and how things work.

Would it be better to take it to Swamp area, because I'd rather not to invade Menna's topic ?

Thank you All !

 

[Beau]

For example, it was the rudimentary understanding that I developed about hyperdimensional realities that opened me up to the possibility of the Work and its application in a lifetime. So, it could be argued that without that rudimentary understanding (and by rudimentary I mean the understanding that is capable from a 3d perspective, which is not really an understanding at all!), I would not have been open to the importance of the Work. While this was just my personal experience, it is an example of how varied and complex this entire experience is. Things are rarely as simple and delineated as you seem to want to make them.

Oh, true that ! However, you did not end up with New Age type of thinking and their understanding of hyperdimensional realities, didn't you ? Why is that ? (that if you do not mind to share of course)

Why do you feel that someone would instantly devolve into New Age style thinking with an understanding of hyperdimensions? That seems to be another form of your rigid thinking. It doesn't have to be so, and many people here on this forum are living examples of that. Or am I mis-interpreting the above?

 

[agni]

For example, it was the rudimentary understanding that I developed about hyperdimensional realities that opened me up to the possibility of the Work and its application in a lifetime. So, it could be argued that without that rudimentary understanding (and by rudimentary I mean the understanding that is capable from a 3d perspective, which is not really an understanding at all!), I would not have been open to the importance of the Work. While this was just my personal experience, it is an example of how varied and complex this entire experience is. Things are rarely as simple and delineated as you seem to want to make them.

Oh, true that ! However, you did not end up with New Age type of thinking and their understanding of hyperdimensional realities, didn't you ? Why is that ? (that if you do not mind to share of course)

Why do you feel that someone would instantly devolve into New Age style thinking with an understanding of hyperdimensions? That seems to be another form of your rigid thinking. It doesn't have to be so, and many people here on this forum are living examples of that. Or am I mis-interpreting the above?

Good point :) I am under impression most went through this stage 'finding out about hyperdimensional realities' => new age type of thinking => new age does not make sense => discovery of machine / work'. Assumption. My projection.

 

[anart]

Thanks anart.

you're being exceptionally rigid in your thinking about it.

Yeah, I know. Pisses me off sometimes. [...]
I do not really care to find out that I am wrong. [...] Pretty ironic, isn't it ?

Sounds like you have a pretty stubborn program there, and it may very well be a 'wrong foundation' - the only way to deal with it, if it is, is to break it down. Do what 'it' does not like - and that is a mighty struggle, especially when one is so sure, on such a deep level, that they can rely on their thinking! It will be the challenge of a lifetime for you, but I think you're up to it.

Oh, true that ! However, you did not end up with New Age type of thinking and their understanding of hyperdimensional realities, didn't you ? Why is that ? (that if you do not mind to share of course)

Well, I'm not sure that my experience would really apply to anyone else, since I don't know if anyone else thinks the way that I do, but perhaps they do? For me, once I realized the (high) probability of hyperdimensional realities, which necessarily would include hyperdimensional perception, it became crystal clear to me how in the dark I really was. I became painfully aware of the limits of not only my perception, but of my mind, my behavior, my emotions. My entire experience of my 'self' was not only limited by my own profound lack of knowledge, but by my 3 dimensional existence and the muddy lens of my 'personality'. I realized, viscerally, that I was attempting to look at 'all there is' through the tiniest slit in a vast wall, really seeing nothing at all - not only due to my 3D perspective, but due to the way my mind/emotions worked, which was hardly at all! So, with that realization, it became very clear that if I was to ever enhance my own understanding and perspective, I HAD to work on my mind, my machine - and remove all factors within myself that helped build that wall. Then, if I can do that, what remains are the 3D perspective limitations, about which I can probably do nothing, but at least at that point, I'll have a clear view of what is and is not possible. When I found Gurdjieff's materials through Laura's work, I realized there was a way to do it - so - I began (and am still in progress)... I hope that made sense!

I am pretty sure I am being rigid again and stuck in same type of thinking.

I think it's a little bit of black and white thinking. I understand that, because logic is very comfortable. There is no risk involved when you can stand back and say, this is proven, this is not. The problem is that our reality is infinitely complex, so there is simply no way to prove (no way we currently have access to) many aspects of it. So, we have to venture out of our comfort zone now and again in order to really progress, I think.

 

[agni]

Thank you anart ! Reading what you wrote put tears in my eyes. I don't know why. It's good kind of tears I think. Not self pity. More of a tears of feeling grateful. I haven't cried in a while.

Thank You All friends !

 

[obyvatel]

Hi Agni,
Regarding the question as to how the knowledge of hyperdimensional reality can help in the Work, here are my 2 cents based on personal experience.

I was quite familiar with the concept of man living in illusion and the smallness of man before the vastness of the universe before I came across Laura's writings dealing with hyperdimensional realities. The concept of a God who would create "illusion" for the heck of it and expect human beings to figure a way out of the mess did not sit comfortably with me. There were at least two fallouts from this. First, the need to work on the self based on this belief did not have much intensity. Secondly, the basic motivation to work was based purely on self-interest. I would have liked to gain self-knowledge for the sake of becoming smart and perhaps powerful - so that I would no longer be a plaything of God but maybe get closer to his ranks. This motivation was not conscious - but when I look back and try to answer the question "why was I looking to work on the self" - the uncomfortable answer is "for becoming powerful". If one keeps the hyperdimensional nature of reality out of the picture, it seems that it is easier to fall further into the self-serving dynamic even when looking for esoteric knowledge or doing the work - OSIT.

When one does include the hyperdimensional aspect of existence into the equation, it becomes more clear where the position of "man" is in the scheme of things. Understanding that there is a battle being fought between the two primeval forces of the universe and our body/mind/souls are the battleground helped put things into perspective for me and changed the intensity as well as the intent behind doing the Work.

As for the nuts and bolts of the struggles one needs to undertake to understand and rise above the mechanical self on a daily basis, I agree with the view that emphasizing hyperdimensional influences perhaps does not help in a practical way.

fwiw

 

[SeekinTruth]

Yes, I agree that knowledge (and as much understanding as currently possible) of hyperdimensional realities is very important because it makes it clearer what the position of man is in the overall scheme of things. It's a large part of the reason that would motivate someone to apply consistent and intense efforts to become more than just food/sheep/cattle for some self-serving higher beings.

If we can't control the expression of our negative emotions and experiences (instead of feeling and observing and transmuting them to positive lessons), then we continue to energetically feed these ultraterrestrials. If we trust our own automatic thinking patterns, we remain a machine and continue to be food, and so on.

But while you're actually trying to clean your machine and get it to work properly (optimally ultimately), I also agree, that you don't need to put much focus on the hyperdimensional controllers. That's just the major reason TO work on yourself and stop being a hypnotized sheep of the Evil Magician.

 

[Psalehesost]

I am under impression most went through this stage 'finding out about hyperdimensional realities' => new age type of thinking => new age does not make sense => discovery of machine / work'. Assumption. My projection.

For me it went something like:

New Age thinking, 'skeptical' materialistic thinking, and severe neurotic issues coexisting in a compartmentalized way => Finding out (from a non-New Age source) about hyperdimensional realities => Shock! Revising my worldview, my priorities and ideals => Discovering The Work and beginning efforts => Long after abandoning it - at least in theory (it still remained part of neurotic thought patterns) - realizing just how useless and nonsensical all New Age mindsets really are

As for doing something different - which "it" might not like - if you haven't really looked into the hyperdimensional stuff beyond the very basics (ie. reading The Wave, etc.) - then watching UFOs, Aliens, and the Question of Contact for a full-blast summary might be a good starting point.

Understanding that there is a battle being fought between the two primeval forces of the universe and our body/mind/souls are the battleground helped put things into perspective for me and changed the intensity as well as the intent behind doing the Work.

Likewise; I thought of posting the same thing, but you got to it first.