2024 US election: A Kennedy presidency? Trump again? Will it be rigged?

[Ryan]

In short, I wouldn't get all worked up over his abysmal position on the Israel/Palestine issue. Politics is really complicated, we don't know what politicians are truly trying to accomplish behind closed doors (although we try our best to discern), so focusing on one single issue to decide whether you like this or that politician is not advisable in my opinion.

I tend to agree with Chu and Windmill Knight on this one. Where do you draw the line? If Israeli soldiers starting raping Palestinian children in public, would Trump still support Israel? I tend to think he would. At this point, there doesn't seem to be any foul crime or shocking depravity that will make Zio-tards drop their support of that pool of slime in the Middle East. And this is probably one of the markers that determines where a person is at in a frequency and deep spiritual sense in this time of Great Change.

Israel's destruction is the only thing that will disabuse such people of their self-righteousness, and I for one will celebrate when that "shitty little country" is finally flushed down the sewer of history for good. The USA I will probably have more mixed feelings about, but I'll still be relieved to see it gone, Trump or no Trump.

 

[Ennio]

Could be that Trump is aware that not all Jews are in favour of the Israel situation or the Zionist agenda, but it isn't yet time to upset any apple carts and that he knows that he has to give the appearance of support for now in order to construct his deals. Or it could be that he really does support Israel. Or it could be that he knows that Israel is going down and will be destroyed because they are making very bad deals and that all he has to do, like so many others, is bide his time and be ready to take advantage of the fire sale.

Yes, imo, to the bolded parts. And in the meantime he still needs to speak his shtick and pay homage to those who are still in a position to hurt or help his campaign, The Zionists. In his mind, probably, if he does manage to get elected, he would need to have some leverage with these folks if he's to mitigate more destruction (however unlikely). Remember Joe's piece on the killing of Soleimani; that was Trump (and Iran's) throwing meat to the crocodile that is Israel - in order to help prevent exactly the type of situation we are Now looking at in the Middle East. He's also said some things, in a roundabout way, about certain false flag events, which suggest he knows exactly what the score is.

To use another example, recall how Putin rolled out Russia's own Covid Vax a few years ago. Some people commented that he must be part of the Globalist agenda, really evil, etc. - when the fact was that parts of Russia were just as much in the thrall of fear and propaganda as the West was. Putin had to put on a show of providing a vaccine because he could not afford to be seen as apathetic or uncaring - even if he knew just how little a danger the virus really posed and the agendas it was serving. Problem solved.

So while its very disappointing (and cringeworthy) on some level to hear Trump spout all those heaps of crude and wrong-headed pro-Israel rhetoric, I do think its safe to chalk a lot of that up to Trump's version of realpolitik; there are political realities that he has to work with no matter how he may feel about the deaths of a hundred thousand innocents, and I don't think he's heartless or blind to it either. But yes, what he's been saying of late goes beyond distasteful and is even offensive to us based on what we know, what are sensibilities are, and the Truth we're committed to. See it from hs perspective though: the man's got few options, resources and little time left to him to make a difference. And has to make the most of what he has facing a truly desperate personal, national, and global situation vis a vis the US.

 

[Evan]

@Ennio and @Ryan That’s what I was in need of. @Miracle Thanks for that as well. I haven’t forgotten Joe’s SOTT article on Solemani and Trump trying to prevent a larger war. As for focusing on “just one thing”. I admit it is a big one for me personally. My adoptive parents were Russian (dad) and Polish (mom) Jews. In fact my grandmother and her sister were smuggled across Poland in a hay wagon to escape during the Russian Revolution. My father was one of the kindest people I’ve ever known, and I know that the behavior of the Zionists would break him were he still alive. So yes, I do find it difficult to remain objective. I suppose I do need to be reminded of that.

 

[hlat]

"Trump spelling out that the "killing has to stop" is the closest he has come to criticizing the way Israel is executing the war in Gaza."

Trump: I Told Netanyahu 'Win Fast' Because 'The Killing Has To Stop' | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

Trump: I Told Netanyahu 'Win Fast' Because 'The Killing Has To Stop'
BY TYLER DURDEN
FRIDAY, AUG 16, 2024 - 10:20 AM

Former US president Donald Trump's consistent message to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on the ongoing Gaza war has been that Israel should get it done quickly, declare victory, and then walk away.

The Republican presidential nominee was questioned by reporters at a New Jersey press event Thursday whether he has called for Netanyahu to achieve ceasefire with Hamas in their private conversations. Trump revealed that when he met Netanyahu last month at his Florida Mar-a-Lago estate he told the Israeli leader to swiftly "get your victory" because the "killing has to stop" in Gaza.

However, Trump denied pressing Netanyahu for a ceasefire and asserted that Netanyahu "knows what he’s doing." Trump has heaped criticism on VP Kamala Harris precisely for openly urging a quick ceasefire.

"I did encourage him to get this over with. You want to get it over with fast. Have victory, get your victory, and get it over with. It has to stop, the killing has to stop," Trump added, positing a big of a significant caveat.

Trump spelling out that the "killing has to stop" is the closest he has come to criticizing the way Israel is executing the war in Gaza.

"From the start, Harris has worked to tie Israel’s hand behind its back, demanding an immediate ceasefire, always demanding ceasefire," Trump said at the New Jersey event. He added that it "would only give Hamas time to regroup and launch a new October 7 style attack."

"I will give Israel the support that it needs to win but I do want them to win fast," Trump added. But the fact remains that Hamas as a guerrilla force is able to utilize networks of tunnels which are seemingly endless, making a protracted conflict inevitable if Tel Aviv really hopes to fully eradicate Hamas, which some IDF generals have said is impossible.

All of this comes the same week that the Gaza Health Ministry has announced over 40,000 dead in Gaza since last October. Israel has consistently disputed these figures, saying they are inflated that at least 17,000 of the dead were Hamas terrorists.

There has been some tensions and awkward back-and-forth this week between Netanyahu's office and the Trump campaign, after Axios reported that Netanyahu's office "said in a statement Thursday that he did not speak with former President Donald Trump on Wednesday to discuss the Gaza hostage and ceasefire deal."

News of the alleged phone call has stirred controversy, with some accusing Trump of circumventing proper government channels related to representing US foreign policy at a sensitive moment...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1824176840107233555

This after Axios earlier reported that the two had a secretive phone call to discuss the Gaza hostage and ceasefire deal, according to two US officials. But the Trump team neither confirmed nor denied, and didn't issue comment.

 

[SummerLite]

I tend to agree with Chu and Windmill Knight on this one. Where do you draw the line? If Israeli soldiers starting raping Palestinian children in public, would Trump still support Israel? I tend to think he would.

I disagree.. I suspect, fairly strongly actually, Trump finds whats happening in Palestine appalling. To support these atrocities goes against everything he's spoken of over the years. His opinion of Netanyahu, I also suspect, is very very low. He is playing a role in a very dangerous and tricky game. Whatever he appears to do with these assorted leaders needs questioning and can't be taken on the easy face value of appearance. NO, Trump doesn't support any of this!

 

[Ryan]

I disagree.. I suspect, fairly strongly actually, Trump finds whats happening in Palestine appalling. To support these atrocities goes against everything he's spoken of over the years. His opinion of Netanyahu, I also suspect, is very very low. He is playing a role in a very dangerous and tricky game. Whatever he appears to do with these assorted leaders needs questioning and can't be taken on the easy face value of appearance. NO, Trump doesn't support any of this!

Support, pretend to support... if the results are the same, does the difference really matter?

 

[Evan]

In the end though, we do have Ivanka and Jared. Just what is Jared’d position, and how much of an influence does that create. If it all lip service, is he therefore playing his own daughter? Kushner has been quoted “Giving them a Palestinian state is basically a reinforcement of, ‘We’re going to reward you for bad actions,’” he said. “You have to show terrorists that they will not be tolerated, that we will take strong action.”

 

[SummerLite]

In the end though, we do have Ivanka and Jared. Just what is Jared’d position, and how much of an influence does that create. If it all lip service, is he therefore playing his own daughter? Kushner has been quoted “Giving them a Palestinian state is basically a reinforcement of, ‘We’re going to reward you for bad actions,’” he said. “You have to show terrorists that they will not be tolerated, that we will take strong action.”

Trump seems like a person that thinks for himself and Jared is truly a jerk. I didn't follow what he said or did during the Trump administration but it wasn't appreciated by many for his viewpoints like you mention and he was seen as a bad influence. There was always that question about him, what was his influence on Trump? Maybe he's not "playing" his daughter but more like his daughter married this guy and Trump had to adapt to keep the peace and appease his daughter who he seems quite close to, something that happens in families. Only speculation of course.

Support, pretend to support... if the results are the same, does the difference really matter?

Trump isn't in the position to do anything about whats happening now with Israel. This destruction of Palestine wasn't happening when he was in office and he made the effort to bring peace and cooperation between these feuding countries with the Abraham Accords which worked for a time. How does a person handle powerful, dangerous and well connected people? Being very sly I'd think. I just don't see Trump as being this evil dummy. Perhaps his strategy is "you draw more flies with honey" as that saying goes.

 

[Natus Videre]

Trump is once again "almost damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't."
I don't know how he copes with that. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes.
He would certainly benefit from hyperbaric treatments!

 

[Alana]

I don't think anybody who actually can, will do anything for the Palestinians. It's been almost a year, close to 200k palestinians are dead for no reason at all. Only the Houthis and Hezbollah have done something to truly cause some harm to the Israeli army's attempts to kill all Gazans. And South Africa got it on record with the ICC that Israel is actually commiting genocide.

Some heads of state have condemned and boycotted, China and Russia among them, but when it comes down to it, for the people of Gaza, it doesn't mean much. The nightmare they live in is ongoing.

I don't know why nobody intervenes. Israel might use their "Sampson option", or blackmailing, or threats against a nation's national security. Knowing how incredibly insane, disgusting and inhuman the Israeli government is, which comes with the understanding that they are willing to do things that a normal human cannot even fathom to keep winning, any sane person might choose to stay out of it... And most importantly, nobody from the US vying for political office will ever be allowed, even if they wanted to, to do anything against Israel's wishes. Sad but true.

So my advice to American citizens is to vote, or not, based on a decision that you can live with, according to the dictates of your own conscience. Or, since this sh*tshow has gone on long enough, vote for the person most likely to use nukes and blow up the whole planet!

Kidding...

Maybe

 

[Nienna]

Another thing to take into consideration about Trump and Israel is how many of his supporters are also supporters of Israel?

If it's anything like what I have been seeing in comments of articles I have read in what are considered conservative news outlets, there are a lot of them. I've seen these same people want to end the war in Ukraine, are against the "woke" agenda, are against the illegal immigration and the Biden regime. And, yet, I am always flabbergasted on how they see Israel. Anything Israel does is just fine with them.

So I'm not saying he is catering to them, but it could be is a part of it. fwiw

 

[Miracle]

Support, pretend to support... if the results are the same, does the difference really matter?

I would argue it does matter. An analogy would be how many of us here publicly "supported" the covid scam as a necessity to carry on with normal life as best we could. Privately, most of our only options for resistance was reading SOTT, a few posts on the covid thread, and perhaps a few social outlets in our real lives.

Where do you draw the line?

I do agree with this 100%. I guess, where is that line considering the complexity of the situation? Referring to what Ennio and Alana said above, Trump has at least hinted that he is not 100% on board with the Israelis, and even Palestine's closest and most immediate allies have had to resort to mostly indirect attacks to weaken Israel. It seems plausible that Trump's hands are tied on this matter and that he has to publicly support Israel al la covid. Trump publicly going against Israel might actually make the situation worse at this time. Personally, to answer my own question, I do not know where the line is from a Presidential geopolitical perspective. Personally, that is enough for me to give him grace on the matter for the time being even with the genocide going on.

 

[Jones]

Israel might use their "Sampson option", or blackmailing, or threats against a nation's national security. Knowing how incredibly insane, disgusting and inhuman the Israeli government is, which comes with the understanding that they are willing to do things that a normal human cannot even fathom to keep winning, any sane person might choose to stay out of it... And most importantly, nobody from the US vying for political office will ever be allowed, even if they wanted to, to do anything against Israel's wishes. Sad but true.

Yeah, also thinking of Aaron Bushnell, perhaps he knew given his position and line of work exactly what Israel were capable of and what they could not only threaten but successfully carry out. Perhaps he thought he was as good as tortured to death for speaking out even if he hadn't self immolated.

 

[Voyageur]

It's been almost a year, close to 200k palestinians are dead for no reason at all. Only the Houthis and Hezbollah have done something to truly cause some harm to the Israeli army's attempts to kill all Gazans. And South Africa got it on record with the ICC that Israel is actually commiting genocide.

Yeah, and in reality no one has truly helped them in 70+ years.

Another thing to take into consideration about Trump and Israel is how many of his supporters are also supporters of Israel?

Not sure where or who said it (recent), and it might have been Jimmy Dore, wherein all the Jewish people he knows from the East Coast are not supportive of Israel, so there is that to consider. Then again, on the so-called right side, conservatism is divided between those who have values and logic and those that have some of that, yet are feverishly dyed-in-the-wool raptureites (fit the neocon groove), people who could never say a bad word about Israel (Peterson is like that) based on their believes. This is the base that Trump has to tip-toe amongst. It is like that Nikki-good grief-Haley thing, saying that there are many conservatives who don't like Trump. That is what he has to face to get elected.

 

[Ricardo]

Catherine austin fitts once called 'em , the us presidents , prisoners at the top , which seems apt for the most part.