abovetopscret.com, Project SERPO, Project Camelot, Project Avalon

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abovetopscret.com EXPOSED!!!!

So basically the people that are responsible for killing us have set it up so that we can see what they are doing, know what their intentions are, and share information with each other that implicates them as direct suspects in our murder.
But if we step out of line while discussing it, or make any implications towards a solution or progress in a discussion that describes an effort to save our own hides... then they'll just disconnect us.

So it's like they are killing us, stalking us, destroying our future, and daring us to address the situation, while they rub their mullygrubbin asses in our childrens faces.

sweet.

I hope I'm still strong enough to blow their fucking minds.

WE are NOT hyptonized.

btw, the 9/11 funeral is over, the controversy is a bigger set up than the attack.
Try not to help them milk the situation anymore.

thank you for your time Ms. Laura.
 
abovetopscret.com EXPOSED!!!!

Submersible said:
So basically the people that are responsible for killing us have set it up so that we can see what they are doing, know what their intentions are, and share information with each other that implicates them as direct suspects in our murder.

But if we step out of line while discussing it, or make any implications towards a solution or progress in a discussion that describes an effort to save our own hides... then they'll just disconnect us.
Or worse. It is our opinion that the more aware people that manage to not get baited into emotional reaction, and who thus stay alive for the "final act," the better. In the meantime, studying everything you can about COINTELPRO, and the nature of the "others" is useful not only for protection, but also so that if anyone decides to form any groups on their own, in real time and space, they will know how to avoid being entrapped and made ineffective. We try to provide this information, though in some cases, you have to read between the lines. We want to be able to continue to provide it as long as possible.

Submersible said:
So it's like they are killing us, stalking us, destroying our future, and daring us to address the situation...
That's pretty succinct. But that's arrogance. After reading Lobaczewski's book in its entirety, however, you will have a different view of the matter. It's almost ready for release.

Submersible said:
btw, the 9/11 funeral is over, the controversy is a bigger set up than the attack.
Try not to help them milk the situation anymore.
Not necessarily. There are a lot of disinfo artists out there that are spreading this idea around. Again, you really need to study the "others" long and carefully.
 
abovetopscret.com EXPOSED!!!!

Laura said:
Now, all the disturbing facts are coming, little by little, into the open as more "trance state" tests. These things are risks that the Controllers take, but they do it for a reason: to deepen the trance. That is mostly why they allow many of the things they allow.
OHHH - so, people aren't 'waking up' about 911 at all, then - at least in the general sense. The Charlie Sheens/Ed Asners/BYU professors/et al are simply being allowed their fifteen minutes to deepen the trance of everyone else. The facts get placed out there in the sun, nothing changes, the trance deepens for the masses. Wow. I had not considered that aspect at all, Laura, thank you for pointing it out.
 
Simon Grey: Christian Bailey: Abovetopsecret?

A couple of most interesting comments made on my blog by erstwhile ATS members:

The post in question is this one:

http://laura-knight-jadczyk.blogspot.com/2006/01/spider-and-fly-skepticoverlord-and.html

and the two comments are:

Anonymous said:
Well it nearly took them a year but they finally got rid of a poster who dared to warn and explain how "top end of town" child sex rings work and keep growing.

It seems busting paedophiles is the worst crime you can commit on ATS.

Search all key words associated with child sex, satanic ritual abuse, etc. and look at the flow and tone of posts.

Their favourite tactic is ignor and bury, with lots of cruel abuse and insult of survivers who dare to speak out.

It was suzy ryan that really got their goat. Not banned, just 'locked out' after pointing out that someone saying, "gay sex with 10 y.o.'s is fine with their consent", is how paedophiles 'fish' for like minded people.

The top levels of administration found she had no complaint against this post but the whole thread, "Diversity Day cancelled to avoid Ex-Gay viewpoint" has vanished since she posted that she disagreed with their view.

We expected this lock out to happen alot earlier, and "smarter", but they seem to have paniced and just made her go away hoping no one will question why.

This was not some, "hang 'em by the balls" vengance seeker but one who kept warning that with justice denied, more people are moved to "catch and kill their own".

One thread on Child Sacrifice to the Goddess Kali, that reported what's going on today; e.g. 3 y.o.(one of over 20) tortured to death for unlimited riches; even had people defending the practice and calling suzy ryan 'judgemental' for refusing to say it wasn't "wrong".

Yeah, there are some great people there but overall the message is that justice is dead and only fools ask for it to be resurrected.
and then...

suzy ryan said:
Hi, I'm still too 'heated' to explain what happened but the friend who was here when I found I was "locked out" is too angry not to warn people about ATS, so spoke for me.

I never had doubts about what the site really is but that's why I chose it to drip feed the truth to those they try to keep it from.

But I can say that some of the posters literally made me vomit, with some of the stuff they support and good folk they attack for speaking out about how paedophiles 'network'.

I'll get back when I'm not so heated.
I do think that those people on ATS who are seeing this sort of thing happening need to be taking screen shots of the pages where that sort of discussion is going on and send them to me for my ATS archive.
 
abovetopscret.com EXPOSED!!!!

A couple of most interesting comments made on my blog by erstwhile ATS members:

The post in question is this one:

http://laura-knight-jadczyk.blogspot.com/2006/01/spider-and-fly-skepticoverlord-and.html

and the two comments are:

Anonymous said:
Well it nearly took them a year but they finally got rid of a poster who dared to warn and explain how "top end of town" child sex rings work and keep growing.

It seems busting paedophiles is the worst crime you can commit on ATS.

Search all key words associated with child sex, satanic ritual abuse, etc. and look at the flow and tone of posts.

Their favourite tactic is ignor and bury, with lots of cruel abuse and insult of survivers who dare to speak out.

It was suzy ryan that really got their goat. Not banned, just 'locked out' after pointing out that someone saying, "gay sex with 10 y.o.'s is fine with their consent", is how paedophiles 'fish' for like minded people.

The top levels of administration found she had no complaint against this post but the whole thread, "Diversity Day cancelled to avoid Ex-Gay viewpoint" has vanished since she posted that she disagreed with their view.

We expected this lock out to happen alot earlier, and "smarter", but they seem to have paniced and just made her go away hoping no one will question why.

This was not some, "hang 'em by the balls" vengance seeker but one who kept warning that with justice denied, more people are moved to "catch and kill their own".

One thread on Child Sacrifice to the Goddess Kali, that reported what's going on today; e.g. 3 y.o.(one of over 20) tortured to death for unlimited riches; even had people defending the practice and calling suzy ryan 'judgemental' for refusing to say it wasn't "wrong".

Yeah, there are some great people there but overall the message is that justice is dead and only fools ask for it to be resurrected.
and then...

suzy ryan said:
Hi, I'm still too 'heated' to explain what happened but the friend who was here when I found I was "locked out" is too angry not to warn people about ATS, so spoke for me.

I never had doubts about what the site really is but that's why I chose it to drip feed the truth to those they try to keep it from.

But I can say that some of the posters literally made me vomit, with some of the stuff they support and good folk they attack for speaking out about how paedophiles 'network'.

I'll get back when I'm not so heated.
I do think that those people on ATS who are seeing this sort of thing happening need to be taking screen shots of the pages where that sort of discussion is going on and send them to me for my ATS archive.
 
"Project SERPO" story: HOAX

A couple of most interesting comments made on my blog by erstwhile ATS members:

The post in question is this one:

http://laura-knight-jadczyk.blogspot.com/2006/01/spider-and-fly-skepticoverlord-and.html

and the two comments are:

Anonymous said:
Well it nearly took them a year but they finally got rid of a poster who dared to warn and explain how "top end of town" child sex rings work and keep growing.

It seems busting paedophiles is the worst crime you can commit on ATS.

Search all key words associated with child sex, satanic ritual abuse, etc. and look at the flow and tone of posts.

Their favourite tactic is ignor and bury, with lots of cruel abuse and insult of survivers who dare to speak out.

It was suzy ryan that really got their goat. Not banned, just 'locked out' after pointing out that someone saying, "gay sex with 10 y.o.'s is fine with their consent", is how paedophiles 'fish' for like minded people.

The top levels of administration found she had no complaint against this post but the whole thread, "Diversity Day cancelled to avoid Ex-Gay viewpoint" has vanished since she posted that she disagreed with their view.

We expected this lock out to happen alot earlier, and "smarter", but they seem to have paniced and just made her go away hoping no one will question why.

This was not some, "hang 'em by the balls" vengance seeker but one who kept warning that with justice denied, more people are moved to "catch and kill their own".

One thread on Child Sacrifice to the Goddess Kali, that reported what's going on today; e.g. 3 y.o.(one of over 20) tortured to death for unlimited riches; even had people defending the practice and calling suzy ryan 'judgemental' for refusing to say it wasn't "wrong".

Yeah, there are some great people there but overall the message is that justice is dead and only fools ask for it to be resurrected.
and then...

suzy ryan said:
Hi, I'm still too 'heated' to explain what happened but the friend who was here when I found I was "locked out" is too angry not to warn people about ATS, so spoke for me.

I never had doubts about what the site really is but that's why I chose it to drip feed the truth to those they try to keep it from.

But I can say that some of the posters literally made me vomit, with some of the stuff they support and good folk they attack for speaking out about how paedophiles 'network'.

I'll get back when I'm not so heated.
I do think that those people on ATS who are seeing this sort of thing happening need to be taking screen shots of the pages where that sort of discussion is going on and send them to me for my ATS archive.
 
abovetopscret.com EXPOSED!!!!

You know, I find all this paedophile defending very disturbing. It makes you wonder what other kinds of depravity some of the posters at ATS are up to.
 
Simon Grey: Christian Bailey: Abovetopsecret?

This thread http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread187745/pg1 shows pretty clearly what those mods and 'regulars' think is more important than exposing Child Sex Rings, namely protecting Masons and their ilk from those "crazy" survivers.

It's worth following the whole thread and links to see just how passionate they ARE NOT, about fighting one of the worst proven conspiracies going.

This is just one of many threads that hammers survivers and their supporters for daring to even raise awareness of the issue.

They demand "proof", in the form of names, dates, details and "convictions", for an International Conspiracy that makes sure "admissable evidence" vanishes and so denies victims the right to 'name names' without being sued for doing so.

If you don't fulfil all their demands you're declared 'mental' a 'lier' and worse, knowing those still finding the courage to speak out are far less likely to when they see how their stories will be received.

They create a dynamic "group dynamic" that kills threads like these by bumping up any and every other 'nonsence' topic of 'popular' interest (easy with so many active always on line 'regulars') to make these fall off the board, among many other tactics to make readers believe they are thinking for themselves and must be right because so many others agree.
 
abovetopscret.com EXPOSED!!!!

Submersible said:
So since the telephone companies are part of the 'establishment' and they provide our source of connection ,then those individual companies have the power to disconnect people who are trying to salvage their bodies from the machine, right?
More or less. The individual server companies buy the bandwidth from the telephone companies and are thus responsible for its use.


Submersible said:
Then how did an angry man claiming to be an attorney from American pick up the phone and call your server in France, and intimidate them enough to turn this forum on and off like they were scared of getting in trouble because his name appeared on your pages?
The server is not in France.

Submersible said:
The way it is explained, it's as if he either knew who your server source was prior to this, or he was able to somehow obtain their independent business contact information quite easily, call them directly and scare them enough to get trigger happy.
That is exactly the case. He knew. That information is available to anyone who knows how to do a whois search. Since he realized that WE are in France, and he can't work his intimidation on us here, he chose to intimidate the server people who were more accessible and subject to intimidation. Besides, they already tried intimidating us and it didn't work.

Submersible said:
Now, I can accept that because of the intensity of this online game you seem to be part of that by some miracle he had a reason to have that information on hand prior to, but seeing that they are located in France and he was bitching about his name appearing on your forum without his authorization, the independent server company wouldn't have cut-off their own customer instead of notifying you of the complaint and discussing it with you first.
See above. It wasn't a miracle. The fact that our server isn't in france, isn't top secret, because anyone with two brain cells to rub together can check the whois on it. The server is the "first line of defense" and thus subject to intimidation if an individual comes along and pretends that he has a lot of firepower and lies about the situation. Clearly, whatever the atty was saying wasn't true as I exposed on my blog. DCMA is international, no server rep on the face of the planet with any brains would act differently in such a case.

Submersible said:
If your server access is through the biggest communications coorporation in France they wouldn't have been that intimidated by a telephone call from USA, and if your access if through the smallest one they would understand the gravity of the situation and understand that there is no way this person could do anything more than file a suit.
Most server companies are smallish. They all buy bandwidth from the phone companies. Again, DCMA is international, no server rep on the face of the planet with any brains would act differently under the circumstances.

Submersible said:
It's not as if they thought their security or business could be in jeapordy because one of their customers posted a public and apparently well known name. If I file suit against a labratory in France for stealing my dna code and using it to clone chimpanzees, it would be very unlikely that it would be settled or won by either side... even if both sides appeared in the same court of law and the judge looked just like me!~
Your ignorance of how the net works as well as the facts of the case (which are evident to those who know how the net is set up and operates), is the foundation of your errors of reasoning. Best to do some research on your own since I have more pressing things to do.

Also, I notice that you have edited your original post, but I will leave my responses to the original as they stand.
 
Simon Grey: Christian Bailey: Abovetopsecret?

Here are some other threads from Above Top Secret that will show what is and isn't important to those very busy 'regulars'.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread197682/pg1

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread162240/pg1

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread201692/pg1

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread201149/pg1

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread197766/pg1

I doubt anyone who reads through these few examples, of many more, could say the AGENDA of ATS isn't to promote good as bad and bad as good.

There's a huge difference between sharing differing opinions and declaring those of a life affirming view to be "judgemental" and so obviously the "Bad Guys".

Oh, and if you read any of the faith or religion threads you'll see that the only "evil" religion is Christianity (even though most of the complaints are about Catholic doctrine) but all others are praised and recommended. Alistair Crowley is a really great guy but those, stupid, blindly led, evil Christians just can't be trusted.

The consistantcy of flow and tone in support of Freemasonry and The Occult and condemnation of Christianity (and Christians who DON'T 'judge and condemn all masons), make the sites agenda very clear.
 
abovetopscret.com EXPOSED!!!!

Submersible said:
So it's like they are killing us, stalking us, destroying our future, and daring us to address the situation, while they rub their mullygrubbin -booootays- in our childrens faces.
"In our childrens faces"? Why not just "in our faces"?

Submersible said:
I hope I'm still strong enough to blow their -flicking- minds.
I doubt it. The answers to many of the questions you are asking are available if you care to take the time to research them yourself. You could then contribute that research on the forum. By the way, to whom does "their" refer? It is not clear.

Submersible said:
WE are NOT hyptonized.
Who is "WE"?

And, as Laura has already pointed out, there are various degrees of "hypnosis" and "hypnotisability" - degrees which are not even generally agreed upon by all scientists and researchers.

Submersible said:
btw, the 9/11 funeral is over, the controversy is a bigger set up than the attack.
Try not to help them milk the situation anymore.
It is strange that you tell Laura not to "help them milk the situation anymore". Is it okay for George Bush to continue to mention 9/11 and Iraq in his speeches to "milk the situation"?? Or are you referring to a different "them"?
 
Simon Grey: Christian Bailey: Abovetopsecret?

true-lilly said:
This thread http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread187745/pg1 shows pretty clearly what those mods and 'regulars' think is more important than exposing Child Sex Rings, namely protecting Masons and their ilk from those "crazy" survivers.

It's worth following the whole thread and links to see just how passionate they ARE NOT, about fighting one of the worst proven conspiracies going.
While I agree with you that exposing human trafficking is one of the most important things that can be done, I'm not sure that I agree that the "Masonic Conspiracy" thing is one of the "worst proven conspiracies going." As I wrote in the Wave Series, it strikes me that the Masons have been targeted to be made into a red herring so as to disguise the true conspirators.

And that's not to say that some Masons might not be involved in such a conspiracy; undoubtedly, some are. And certainly, the C's have given hints on this a time or two suggesting exactly that. What I am familiar with is the fact that many men in my family have been and are Masons, and each and every one of them was a very good human being and truly believed that they were helping humanity. So, just labeling the whole Masonic organization as one big gang of evildoers is not productive. It's the same as saying that all the activities of the fanatical Zionists represents all Jews. It just isn't so.

As Lobaczewski points out, in ANY and EVERY group of human beings without adequate knowledge of psychology, there is a small minority of deviant elements. These deviants, because of their special characteristics, can easily take over the control of the group, turning its original purpose around. I'll see if I can extract that particular section and post it because it IS fascinating. However, one needs to read the entire book to get the full import of it.

Anyway, to continue here:

true-lilly said:
This is just one of many threads that hammers survivers and their supporters for daring to even raise awareness of the issue.

They demand "proof", in the form of names, dates, details and "convictions", for an International Conspiracy that makes sure "admissable evidence" vanishes and so denies victims the right to 'name names' without being sued for doing so.
I can certainly understand that and how frustrating it is. I'm not sure how I would deal with it. I think that if I knew someone pretty well, and they told me about such things and, at the very least, there was circumstantial evidence to back them up, I would consider that they are telling the truth.

On the other hand, we also know that there are a few people who may very well have been specifically programmed to promote certain stories as distraction. So without all details, I can't make a judgment call on that.

true-lilly said:
If you don't fulfil all their demands you're declared 'mental' a 'lier' and worse, knowing those still finding the courage to speak out are far less likely to when they see how their stories will be received.
Again, I DO know that there are people who are programmed to tell such stories as a distraction. But the very fact that such individuals are "out there" (Cathy O'Brien comes to mind) suggests that there IS something to hide. It's a lot like the UFO/alien problem. There ARE real UFOs and aliens, no doubt in my mind. But most of what gets propagated is a gov program designed to cover up the truth.

true-lilly said:
They create a dynamic "group dynamic" that kills threads like these by bumping up any and every other 'nonsence' topic of 'popular' interest (easy with so many active always on line 'regulars') to make these fall off the board, among many other tactics to make readers believe they are thinking for themselves and must be right because so many others agree.
Yes, we are familiar with this tactic. And this relates to the process of subverting an ideological group as Lobaczewski described it. So I'll try to go and dig that out.

Last of all, don't be offended when people ask for whatever evidence you CAN provide. At the same time, always keep in mind that such stories, like stories of Satanic Ritual Abuse AND Alien Abductions, can very well be programmed - in ANYBODY.
 
Simon Grey: Christian Bailey: Abovetopsecret?

Extract from Political Ponerology by Andrzej Lobaczewski. Hopefully, this will help to explain why groups, including Masons and Christianity, can be both good and evil at the same time. The fact is that Christianity is one of the groups that has been most severely "ponerized."


Ponerogenic Associations

We shall give the name "ponerogenic association" to any group of people characterized by ponerogenic processes of above-average social intensity, wherein the carriers of various pathological factors function as inspirers, spellbinders, and leaders, and where a proper pathological social structure generates. Smaller, less permanent associations may be called "groups" or "unions".

Such an association gives birth to evil which hurts other people as well as its own members. We could list various names ascribed to such organizations by linguistic tradition: gangs, criminal mobs, mafias, cliques, and coteries, which cunningly avoid collision with the law while seeking to gain their own advantage. Such unions frequently aspire to political power in order to impose their expedient legislation upon societies in the name of a suitably prepared ideology, deriving advantages in the form of disproportionate prosperity and the satisfaction of their craving for power.

A description and classification of such associations with a view of their numbers, goals, officially promulgated ideologies, and internal organizations would of course be scientifically valuable. Such a description, effected by a perceptive observer, could help a ponerologist determine some of the properties of such unions, which cannot be determined by means of natural conceptual language.

A description of this kind, however, ought not to cloak the more factual phenomena and psychological dependencies operating within these unions. Failure to heed this warning can easily cause such a sociological description to indicate properties which are of secondary importance, or even made "for show" to impress the uninitiated, thereby overshadowing the actual phenomena which decide the quality, role, and fate of the union. Particularly if such a description is colorful literature, it can furnish merely illusory or ersatz knowledge, thus rendering a naturalistic perception and causative comprehension of phenomena more difficult.

One phenomenon all ponerogenic groups and associations have in common is the fact that their members lose (or have already lost) the capacity to perceive pathological individuals as such, interpreting their behavior in a fascinated, heroic, or melodramatic ways. The opinions, ideas, and judgments of people carrying various psychological deficits are endowed with an importance at least equal to that of outstanding individuals among normal people.

The atrophy of natural critical faculties with respect to pathological individuals becomes an opening to their activities, and, at the same time, a criterion for recognizing the association in concern as ponerogenic. Let us call this the first criterion of ponerogenesis.

Another phenomenon all ponerogenic associations have in common is their statistically high concentration of individuals with various psychological anomalies. Their qualitative composition is crucially important in the formation of the entire union's character, activities, development, or extinction.

Groups dominated by various kinds of characteropathic individuals will develop relatively primitive activities, proving rather easy for a society of normal people to break. However, things are quite different when such unions are inspired by psychopathic individuals.

Two basic types of the above-mentioned unions should be differentiated: Primary ponerogenic and secondary ponerogenic. Let us describe as primarily ponerogenic a union whose abnormal members were active from the very beginning, playing the role of crystallizing catalysts as early as the process of creation of the group occurred. We shall call secondarily ponerogenic a union which was founded in the name of some idea with an independent social meaning, generally comprehensible within the categories of the natural world view, but which later succumbed to a certain moral degeneration. This in turn opened the door to infection and activation of the pathological factors within, and later to a ponerization of the group as a whole, or often of its fraction.
From the very outset, a primarily ponerogenic union is a foreign body within the organism of society, its character colliding with the moral values held or respected by the majority. The activities of such groups provoke opposition and disgust and are considered immoral; as a rule, therefore, such groups do not spread large, nor do they metastasize into numerous unions; they finally lose their battle with society.

In order to have a chance to develop into a large ponerogenic association, however, it suffices that some human organization, characterized by social or political goals and an ideology with some creative value, be accepted by a larger number of normal people before it succumbs to a process of ponerogenic malignancy. The primary tradition and ideological values of such a society may then, for a long time, protect a union which has succumbed to the ponerization process from the awareness of society, especially its less critical components. When the ponerogenic process touches such a human organization, which originally emerged and acted in the name of political or social goals, and whose causes were conditioned in history and the social situation, the original group's primary values will nourish and protect such a union, in spite of the fact that those primary values succumb to characteristic degeneration, the practical function becoming completely different from the primary one, because the names and symbols are retained. This is where the weaknesses of individual and social "common sense" are revealed.
This is reminiscent of a situation psychopathologists know well: a person who enjoyed trust and respect in their circles starts behaving with preposterous arrogance and hurting others, allegedly in the name of his already known, decent and accepted convictions, which have - in the meantime - deteriorated due to some psychological process rendering them primitive but emotionally dynamic. However, his old acquaintances - having known him for long as the person he was - do not believe the injured parties who complain about his new, or even hidden, behavior, and are prepared to denigrate them and consider them liars. This adds insult to their injury and gives encouragement and license to the individual whose personality is undergoing deterioration, to commit further hurtful acts; as a rule, such a situation lasts until the person's madness becomes obvious.[...]

Ponerogenic unions of the primary variety are mainly of interest to criminology; our main concern will be associations that succumb to a secondary process of poneric malignancy. First, however, let us sketch a few properties of such associations which have already surrendered to this process.

Within each ponerogenic union, a psychological structure is created which can be considered a counterpart or caricature of the normal structure of society or a normal societal organization. In a normal social organization, individuals with various psychological strengths and weaknesses complement each other's talents and characteristics. This structure is subjected to diachronic modification with regard to changes in the character of the association as whole. The same is true of a ponerogenic union. Individuals with various psychological aberrations also complement each other's talents and characteristics.

The earlier phase of a ponerogenic union's activity is usually dominated by characteropathic, particularly paranoid, individuals, who often play an inspirational or spellbinding role in the ponerization process. Recall here the power of the paranoid characteropath lies in the fact that they easily enslave less critical minds, e.g. people with other kinds of psychological deficiencies, or who have been victims of individuals with character disorders, and, in particular, a large segment of young people.

At this point in time, the union still exhibits certain romantic features and is not yet characterized by excessively brutal behavior. Soon, however, the more normal members are pushed into fringe functions and are excluded from organizational secrets; some of them thereupon leave such a union.

Individuals with inherited deviations then progressively take over the inspirational and leadership positions. The role of essential psychopaths gradually grows, although they like to remain ostensibly in the shadows (e.g. directing small groups), setting the pace as an �minence grise. In ponerogenic unions on the largest social scales, the leadership role is generally played by a different kind of individual, one more easily digestible and representative. Examples include frontal characteropathy, or some more discreet complex of lesser taints.
A spellbinder at first simultaneously plays the role of leader in a ponerogenic group. Later there appears another kind of "leadership talent", a more vital individual who often joined the organization later, once it has already succumbed to ponerization. The spellbinding individual, being weaker, is forced to come to terms with being shunted into the shadows and recognizing the new leader's "genius", or accept the threat of total failure. Roles are parceled out. The spellbinder needs support from the primitive but decisive leader, who in turn needs the spellbinder to uphold the association's ideology, so essential in maintaining the proper attitude on the part of those members of the rank and file who betray a tendency to criticism and doubt of the moral variety.

The spellbinder's job then becomes to repackage the ideology appropriately, sliding new contents in under old titles, so that it can continue fulfilling its propaganda function under ever-changing conditions. He also has to uphold the leader's mystique inside and outside the association. Complete trust cannot exist between the two, however, since the leader secretly has contempt for the spellbinder and his ideology, whereas the spellbinder despises the leader for being such a coarse individual. A showdown is always probable; whoever is weaker becomes the loser.

The structure of such a union undergoes further variegation and specialization. A chasm opens between the somewhat more normal members and the elite initiates who are, as a rule, more pathological. This later subgroup becomes ever more dominated by hereditary pathological factors, the former by the after-effects of various diseases affecting the brain, less typically psychopathic individuals, and people whose malformed personalities were caused by early deprivation or brutal child-rearing methods on the part of pathological individuals. It soon develops that there is less and less room for normal people in the group at all. The leaders' secrets and intentions are kept hidden from the union's proletariat; the products of the spellbinders' work must suffice for this segment.
An observer watching such a union's activities from the outside and using the natural psychological world view will always tend to overestimate the role of the leader and his allegedly autocratic function. The spellbinders and the propaganda apparatus are mobilized to maintain this erroneous outside opinion. The leader, however, is dependent upon the interests of the union, especially the elite initiates, to an extent greater than he himself knows. He wages a constant position-jockeying battle; he is an actor with a director. In macrosocial unions, this position is generally occupied by a more representative individual not deprived of certain critical faculties; initiating him into all those plans and criminal calculations would be counterproductive. In conjunction with part of the elite, a group of psychopathic individuals hiding behind the scenes steers the leader, the way Borman and his clique steered Hitler. If the leader does not fulfill his assigned role, he generally knows that the clique representing the elite of the union is in a position to kill or otherwise remove him.

We have sketched the properties of unions in which the ponerogenic process has transformed their original generally benevolent content into a pathological counter-part thereof and modified its structure and its later changes, in a manner sufficiently wide-scale to encompass the greatest possible scope of this kind of phenomena, from the smallest to the largest social scale. The general rules governing those phenomena appear to be at least analogous, independent of the quantitative, social, and historical scale of such a phenomenon.

Ideologies

It is a common phenomenon for a ponerogenic association or group to contain a particular ideology which always justifies its activities and furnishes motivational propaganda. Even a small-time gang of hoodlums has its own melodramatic ideology and pathological romanticism. Human nature demands that vile matters be haloed by an over-compensatory mystique in order to silence one's conscience and to deceive consciousness and critical faculties, whether one's own or those of others.

If such a ponerogenic union could be stripped of its ideology, nothing would remain except psychological and moral pathology, naked and unattractive. Such stripping would of course provoke "moral outrage", and not only among the members of the union. The fact is, even normal people, who condemn this kind of union along with its ideologies, feel hurt and deprived of something constituting part of their own romanticism, their way of perceiving reality when a widely idealized group is exposed as little more than a gang of criminals. Perhaps even some of the readers of this book will resent the author's stripping evil so unceremoniously of all its literary motifs. The job of effecting such a "strip-tease" may thus turn out to be much more difficult and dangerous than expected.

A primary ponerogenic union is formed at the same time as its ideology, perhaps even somewhat earlier. A normal person perceives such ideology to be different from the world of human concepts, obviously suggestive, and even primitively comical to a degree.

An ideology of a secondarily ponerogenic association is formed by gradual adaptation of the primary ideology to functions and goals other than the original formative ones. A certain kind of layering or schizophrenia of ideology takes place during the ponerization process. The outer layer closest to the original content is used for the group's propaganda purposes, especially regarding the outside world, although it can in part also be used inside with regard to disbelieving lower-echelon members. The second layer presents the elite with no problems of comprehension: it is more hermetic, generally composed by slipping a different meaning into the same names. Since identical names signify different contents depending on the layer in question, understanding this "doubletalk" requires simultaneous fluency in both languages.

Average people succumb to the first layer's suggestive insinuations for a long time before they learn to understand the second one as well. Anyone with certain psychological deviations, especially if he is wearing the mask of normality with which we are already familiar, immediately perceives the second layer to be attractive and significant; after all, it was built by people like him. Comprehending this doubletalk is therefore a vexatious task, provoking quite understandable psychological resistance; this very duality of language, however, is a pathognomonic symptom indicating that the human union in question is touched by the ponerogenic process to an advanced degree.

The ideology of unions affected by such degeneration has certain constant factors regardless of their quality, quantity, or scope of action: namely, the motivations of a wronged group, radical righting of the wrong, and the higher values of the individuals who have joined the organization. These motivations facilitate sublimation of the feeling of being wronged and different, caused by one's own psychological failings, and appear to liberate the individual from the need to abide by uncomfortable moral principles.

In the world full of real injustice and human humiliation, making it conducive to the formation of an ideology containing the above elements, a union of its converts may easily succumb to degradation. When this happens, those people with a tendency to accept the better version of the ideology will tend to justify such ideological duality.

The ideology of the proletariat, which aimed at revolutionary restructuring of the world, was already contaminated by a schizoid deficit in the understanding of, and trust for, human nature; small wonder, then, that it easily succumbed to a process of typical degeneration in order to nourish and disguise a macrosocial phenomenon whose basic essence is completely different.

For future reference, let us remember: ideologies do not need spellbinders. Spellbinders need ideologies in order to subject them to their own deviant goals.

On the other hand, the fact that some ideology degenerated along with its corollary social movement, later succumbing to this schizophrenia and serving goals which the originators of the ideology would have abhorred, does not prove that it was worthless, false, and fallacious from the start. Quite the contrary: it rather appears that under certain historical conditions, the ideology of any social movement, even if it is sacred truth, can yield to the ponerization process.

A given ideology may have contained weak spots, created by the errors of human thought and emotion within; or it may, during the course of its history, become infiltrated by more primitive foreign material which can contain ponerogenic factors. Such material destroys an ideology's internal homogeny. The source of such infection by foreign ideological material may be the ruling social system with its laws and customs based on a more primitive tradition, or an imperialistic system of rule. It may be, of course, simply another philosophical movement often contaminated by the eccentricities of its founder, who considers the facts to blame for not conforming to his dialectical construct.

The Roman Empire, including its legal system and paucity of psychological concepts, similarly contaminated the primary homogeneous idea of Christianity. Christianity had to adapt to coexistence with a social system wherein "dura lex sed lex" , rather than an understanding of human beings, decided a person's fate; this then led to the corruption of attempting to reach the goals of the "Kingdom of God" by means of Roman imperialistic methods.
The greater and truer the original ideology, the longer it may be capable of nourishing and disguising from human criticism that phenomenon which is the product of the specific degenerative process. In a great and valuable ideology, the danger for small minds is hidden; they can become the factors of such preliminary degeneration, which opens the door to invasion by pathological factors.

Thus, if we intend to understand the secondary ponerization process and the kinds of human associations which succumb to it, we must take great care to separate the original ideology from its counterpart, or even caricature, created by the ponerogenic process. Abstracting from any ideology, we must, by analogy, understand the essence of the process itself, which has its own etiological causes which are potentially present in every society, as well as characteristic developmental patho-dynamics.

The Ponerization Process

Observation of the ponerization processes of various human unions throughout history easily leads to the conclusion that the initial step is a moral warping of the group's ideational contents. In analyzing the contamination of a group's ideology, we note first of all an infiltration of foreign, simplistic, and doctrinaire contents, thereby depriving it of any healthy support for, and trust in, the necessity of understanding of human nature. This opens the way for invasion by pathological factors and the ponerogenic role of their carriers.

The example of the Roman legal system vis a vis early Christianity mentioned above, is a case in point. The Roman imperial and legal civilization was overly attached to matter and law, and created a legal system that was too rigid to accommodate any real aspects of psychological and spiritual life. This "earthy" foreign element infiltrated Christianity resulting in the Catholic church adopting Imperial strategies to enforce its system on others by violence.

This fact could justify the conviction of moralists that maintaining a union's ethical discipline and ideational purity is sufficient protection against derailing or hurtling into an insufficiently comprehended world of error. Such a conviction strikes a ponerologist as a unilateral oversimplification of an eternal reality which is more complex. After all, the loosening of ethical and intellectual controls is sometimes a consequence of the direct or indirect influence of the omnipresent factors of the existence of deviants in any social group, along with some other non-pathological human weaknesses.

Sometime during life, every human organism undergoes periods during which physiological and psychological resistance declines, facilitating development of bacteriological infection within. Similarly, a human association or social movement undergoes periods of crisis which weaken its ideational and moral cohesion. This may be caused by pressure on the part of other groups, a general spiritual crisis in the environment, or intensification of its hysterical condition. Just as more stringent sanitary measures are an obvious medical indication for a weakened organism, the development of conscious control over the activity of pathological factors is a ponerological indication. This is a crucial factor for prevention of tragedy during a society's periods of moral crisis.

For centuries, individuals exhibiting various psychological anomalies have had the tendency to participate in the activities of human unions. This is made possible on the one hand by such group's weaknesses, i.e. failure in adequate psychological knowledge; on the other hand, it deepens the moral failings and stifles the possibilities of utilizing healthy common sense and understanding matters objectively. In spite of the resulting tragedies and unhappiness, humanity has shown a certain progress, especially in the cognitive area; therefore, a ponerologist may be cautiously optimistic. After all, by detecting and describing these aspects of the ponerization process of human groups, which could not be understood until recently, we shall be able to counteract such processes earlier and more effectively. Again, depth and breadth of knowledge of human psychological variations is crucial.
Any human group affected by the process described herein is characterized by its increasing regression from natural common sense and the ability to perceive psychological reality. Someone considering this in terms of traditional categories might consider it an instance of "turning into half-wits" or the development of intellectual deficiencies and moral failings. A ponerological analysis of this process, however, indicates that pressure is being applied to the more normal part of the association by pathological factors present in certain individuals who have been allowed to participate in the group because the lack of good psychological knowledge has not madated their exclusion.

Thus, whenever we observe some group member being treated with no critical distance, although he betrays one of the psychological anomalies familiar to us, and his opinions being treated as at least equal to those of normal people, although they are based on a characteristically different view of human matters, we must derive the conclusion that this human group is affected by a ponerogenic process and if measures are not taken the process shall continue to its logical conclusion. We shall treat this in accordance with the above described first criterion of ponerology, which retains its validity regardless of the qualitative and quantitative features of such a union: the atrophy of natural critical faculties with respect to pathological individuals becomes an opening to their activities, and, at the same time, a criterion for recognizing the association in concern as ponerogenic.

Such a state of affairs simultaneously consists as a liminal (watershed) situation, whereupon further damage to people's healthy common sense and critical moral faculties becomes ever easier. Once a group has inhaled a sufficient dose of pathological material to give birth to the conviction that these not-quite-normal people are unique geniuses, it starts subjecting its more normal members to pressure characterized by corresponding paralogical and paramoral elements.

For many people, such pressure of collective opinion takes on attributes of a moral criterion; for others, it represents a kind of psychological terror ever more difficult to endure. The phenomenon of counter-selection thus occurs in this phase of ponerization: individuals with a more normal sense of psychological reality leave after entering into conflict with the newly modified group; simultaneously, individuals with various psychological anomalies join the group and easily find a way of life there. The former feel "pushed into counter-revolutionary positions", and the latter can afford to remove their masks of sanity ever more often.

People who have been thus thrown out of a ponerogenic association because they were too normal suffer bitterly; they are unable to understand their specific state. Their ideal, the reason they joined the group, which constituted a part of the meaning of life for them, has now been degraded, although they cannot find a rational basis for this fact. They feel wronged; they "fight against demons" they are not in a position to identify. The fact is their personalities have already been modified to a certain extent due to saturation by abnormal psychological material, especially psychopathic material. They easily fall into the opposite extreme in such cases, because unhealthy emotions rule their decisions. What they need is good psychological information in order to find the path of reason and measure. Based on a ponerologic understanding of their condition, psychotherapy could provide rapid positive results. However, if the union they left is succumbing to deep ponerization, a threat looms over them: they may become the objects of revenge, since they have "betrayed" a magnificent ideology.

This is the stormy period of a group's ponerization, followed by a certain stabilization in terms of contents, structure, and customs. Rigorous selective measures of a clearly psychological kind are applied to new members. So as to exclude the possibility of becoming sidetracked by defectors, people are observed and tested to eliminate those characterized by excessive mental independence or psychological normality. The new internal function created is something like a "psychologist", and it doubtless takes advantage of the above-described psychological knowledge collected by psychopaths.

It should be noted that certain of these exclusionary steps taken by a group in the process of ponerization, should have been taken against deviants by the ideological group in the beginning. So rigorous selective measures of a psychological kind taken by a group is not necessarily an indicator that the group is ponerogenic. Rather one should carefully examine what the psychological selection is based on. If any group seeks to avoid ponerization, it will want to exclude individuals with any psychological dependence on subjective beliefs, rites, rituals, drugs, and certainly those individuals that are incapable of objectively analyzing their own inner psychological content or who reject the process of Positive disintegration.

In a group in the process of ponerization, spellbinders take care of "ideological purity". The leader's position is relatively secure. Individuals manifesting doubt or criticism are subject to paramoral condemnation. Maintaining the utmost dignity and style, leadership discusses opinions and intentions which are psychologically and morally pathological. Any intellectual connections which might reveal them as such are eliminated, thanks to the substitution of premises operating in the proper subconscious process on the basis of prior conditioned reflexes. An objective observer might wish to compare this state to one in which the inmates of an asylum take over the running of the institution. The association enters the state wherein the whole has donned the mask of ostensible normality. In the next chapter, we shall call such a state the "dissimulative phase" with regard to macrosocial ponerogenic phenomena.

Observing the appropriate state corresponding to the first ponerological criterion - the atrophy of natural critical faculties with respect to pathological individuals - requires skillful psychology and specific factual knowledge; the second, more stable phase can be perceived both by a person of average reason and by public opinion in most societies. The interpretation imposed, however, is unilaterally moralistic or sociological, simultaneously undergoing the characteristic feeling of deficiency as regards the possibility of both understanding the phenomenon and counteracting the spread of said evil.

However, in this phase a minority of social groups tend to consider such a ponerogenic association comprehensible within the categories of their own world view and the outer layer of diffusing ideology as a doctrine acceptable to them. The more primitive the society in question, and the further removed from direct contact to the union affected by this pathological state, the more numerous such minorities would be. This very period, during which the customs of the union become somewhat milder, often represents simultaneously its most intensive expansionist activity.

This period may last long, but not forever. Internally, the group is becoming progressively more pathological, finally showing its true qualitative colors again as its activities become ever clumsier. At this point, a society of normal people can easily threaten ponerologic associations, even at the macrosocial level.
 
"Project SERPO" story: HOAX

_http://www.serpo.org is back in the DNS. The "beta" web site is gone. There is a new posting from "anonymous".

From a previous posting (Posting Five by Anonymous (13 November, 2005))

The weight limit was 4.5 tons or 9,000 lbs.
Now the latest posting (Posting Seventeen by Anonymous (3 April, 2006))

1) MUSIC � The Team Members took the following types of music:

Elvis Presley
Buddy Holly
Ricky Nelson
The Kingston Trio
Brenda Lee
The Beach Boys
Bob Dylan
Peter Paul & Mary
The Beatles
Loretta Lynn
Simon & Garfunkel
The Hollies
Chubby Checker
Bing Crosby
Dinah Shore
Vera Lynn
Tommy Dorsey
Ted Lewis
Ethel Merman
Everly Brothers
Lesley Gore
Marline Dietrich
The Patters
Doris Day
Connie Francis
Shirelles Lyrics
Frank Sinatra
Dean Martin
Perry Como
Guy Lombardo
Glenn Miller
Rosemary Clooney
Al Jolson;

Christmas Music
U.S. Patriotic Music;

Classical Music:
Mozart
Hansel
Bach
Schubert
Mendelssohn
Rossini
Strauss
Beethoven
Brahms
Chopin
Tchaikovsky
Vivaldi

Indian Chanting Music
Tibetan Chants
African Chants [these last three (3) for the intended benefit of the Eben hosts].

2) CLOTHING � The Team Members took the following clothing:

24 pairs of specialized flight suits
112 pairs of underwear (pants/shirts)
220 pairs of socks
18 hats including jungle style and regular ball caps
50 different types of footwear
military clothing, load bearing belts and harnesses
military backpacks
30 pairs of civilian casual pants
shorts
sleeveless shirts
15 pairs of athletic shoes
100 pairs of athletic socks
eight (8) athletic supports
24 pairs of thermal underwear
24 pairs of thermal socks
six (6) pairs of cold weather boots
military-style hot weather clothing
60 pairs of gloves military work-style
10 containers of military-style sanitary gloves
six (6) pairs of cold weather gloves
10 laundry bags
disposal surgical gloves
military-style warm weather jackets
military-style cold weather jackets
civilian-style warm and cold weather jackets
10 pairs of warm weather sandals
24 military safety helmets
24 military-style flight helmets
1,000 yards of fabric for the repair and making of clothes.

3) MEDICAL EQUIPMENT � The Team Members took the following medical equipment:

Portable X-ray machine
100 pre-packed medical kits for advance trauma care (military-style battle field medical kits)
examination scopes for the stomach bladder and rectum
eye examination equipment
120 pre-packed surgical kits (military style)
120 pre-packed military field medicine kits (containing various medicines)
30 military-style field medical sanitation kits
75 water testing kits (military style)
50 water testing kits (civilian)
75 FAST kits
1,200 food testing kits (military style)
500 pieces of miscellaneous surgical tools
5,000 packages of insect repellant (military style)
250 medical intravenous kits/with fluids
16 pre-packed medical testing kits (military style)
50 pre-packed medical testing kits (civilian)
five (5) military Medical Portable Hospital Tents with base
two (2) Military Medical Portable Deployment Kits
18 Military Medical Blood testing kits
three (3) portable military chemistry testing stations
two (2) Advanced Biological Testing Kits (civilian version)
15 Military Radiation Treatment Kits
1,000 pounds of miscellaneous medical equipment.

4) TESTING EQUIPMENT � The Team Members took the following testing equipment:

100 pieces of geological testing items
2 military soil testing stations
two (2) chemistry testing stations (civilian)
six (6) radiation testing meters
two (2) military radiation testing stations
two (2) biological testing stations (civilian)
two (2) 100cc tractors
four (4) 100cc digging tool tractors
10 pre-packed military Soil Testing Kits
16 astronomical telescopes
two (2) Military Star Stations
four (4) military power generators (1-10,000 watts)
four (4) civilian power generators
experimental solar collecting equipment (military)
50 portable two-way radios with FM frequencies
six (6) military combat radio platform kits
50 pre-packed military radio repair kits
1,000 different frequency tubes
30 pre-packed military electrical testing and repair kits
three (3) solar testing stations (military)
one (1) experimental solar testing station
10 solar collection panels with collector containers
10 air sample collection kits (military)
five (5) air sample collection kits (civilian)
six (6) diamond drills
10 military special access kits
1,000 pounds of C-4 explosives with 500 blasting caps
detonating cord
time fuse
Military shape charges
one (1) Nuclear Detonating Kit.

5) MISCELLANEOUS EQUIPMENT and ITEMS � The Team Members took the following miscellaneous equipment/items:

100 military blankets
100 military sheets
24 pre-packed military combat deployment kits
80 pre-packed military combat tent kits
four (4) military mobile kitchen deployable kits
six (6) military survival stations �warm weather
six (6) military survival stations �cold weather
2 military weather stations � combat style
50 military weather balloons
24 military handguns
24 military rifles (M-16s)
six (6) M-66 weapons
two (2) M-40 grenade launchers
two (2) military 60mm motor tube (30 rounds)
100 military air burst flares
5,000 rounds of .223 ammunition [M-16 assault rifles]
500 rounds of .45 ammunition
60 M-40 rounds
15 Freon dispersal containers
15 compressed air dispersal containers
20 tanks of oxygen gas
20 tanks of nitrogen gas
20 tanks of miscellaneous gases for cutting equipment and testing
75 military-style sleeping bags
60 military-style pillows
55 military-style sleeping platforms
six (6) pre-packed military deployment combat field living platforms
250 different style padlocks
6,000 feet of different types of rope
24 repelling kits
10 seismic deep hole drills
1,000 gallons of fuel
four (4) military-style phonographs
10 Military cassette players
10 reel-to-reel tape players
60 belts
10 military sound collection equipment kits
25 military Intelligence Collection Kits
1,000 other miscellaneous items.

6) VEHICLES � The Team Members took the following vehicles:

10 military-style combat motorcycles
three (3) military M-151 Jeeps
three (3) military trailers
10 Military repair kits for jeeps
10 Military repair kits for the motorcycles
one (1) Military lawn mower
1,500 gallons of fuel for all of the above items.

7) FOOD � The Team Members took the following food items:

C-Rations
25 pre-packed containers
100 pre-packed containers of freeze-dried food items
100 cases of various canned food items
seven (7) years worth of vitamins
100 containers of energy bars/snack items
1,000 gallons of water
150 military survival food kits
16 boxes of various alcoholic wines
150 cases of drinking fluids
chewing gum, lifesaver candy and various other miscellaneous food items.

8) MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS � The Team Members took 2,000 pounds of various other items.
I don't know, but somehow that is a very long list. Seems to me like it could easily exceed 9,000 pounds, but since gravity is different on Serpo, perhaps a pound is also different...

Bear in mind that all of this was quite some time ago when all of the fancy schmancy light weight stuff had not been developed.

The inclusion of Elvis was a nice touch. See, "Weekly World News" is right, Elvis really was on the UFO... :0

One more thing, the lawn mower was a nice touch. Yeah, that is definitely going to be on my list of things to take should the EBENs offer to take me 40 light years from Earth. Yep. A lawn mower. Don't leave Earth without one.

Even one more thing. Remember how there is the claim that something like 10,000 pictures were taken? (Oh, and notice not one of which has managed to make it on the web site.) Also remember the comment about the hope that the radiation does not fog the film? (Remember, this is *way* before digital cameras.) Well where are the cameras in the list? Where are the cases of film? Film magazines? Lenses? Lead lined film canisters? Developing chemicals and a portable darkroom to develop the film so it does not need continuing shielding from "the radiation"?

Even one more thing.

From _http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m151.htm we see the following:

The M151 Truck, Utility: �-Ton, 4x4, series of vehicles are commonly referred to as Jeeps. In use since 1979, various models of the M-151 have seen successful military service in 15 different North Atlantic Treaty Organization countries.
Bill. Dude. Now he (anonymous) is just laughing at you... either that or you are clearly part of it.
 
abovetopscret.com EXPOSED!!!!

Ok, let's back up a sec.
I was printing out maps while reading your post and had to respond with something eventho' I was running late.

Ms. Laura you said
"From a backbone, people who own and resell internet connections. Mainly the phone companies or other companies that install the connections, i.e. corporations."
How did an angry man claiming to be an attorney from American pick up the phone and call your server in France, and intimidate them enough to turn this forum on and off like they were scared of getting in trouble because his name appeared on your pages?
Wouldn't he have to contact a 'big-wig' friend in America that could pick up the phone and call another communications 'big-wig' in France, and then him call the server and make them cut you off?

Coorporate executives usually don't snap their fingers at their international connections that fast, much less for some b.s. like that.


:rolleyes:
 
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