Advice needed.

[ScarletBegonias]

Hello luke wilson, Perhaps you weren't able to self-remember at that good opportunity because you have a tendency to be externally considerate to the point of neglecting your own needs? I say this because this is an area I am working on myself and I can relate to your reactions here. I have found that for me, balance between caring for others and caring for myself is the key to a healthy life.

FWIW I think being more assertive with your roommate might resolve this issue, since he has expressed that he actually feels the same way about music being distracting. Plus, he even recognizes that his music sounds loud in your room, so these are good signs, I think!

Maybe in a casual way, at a casual time, but soon, you could express how you were recently trying to focus on something, but his loud music was really distracting you from it. Then you remembered/reflected on how it had become more difficult for you to focus on your studies, how drained you have become, etc, since you have been hearing the loud music through your wall. After the recent talk you had with him it really became clear to you that he could perhaps be being a little bit more externally considerate/respectful of his roommates with regards to the volume level of the music he is likes to play.

If you do talk with him again, opening with a positive statement like, "You're a respectable guy, so I felt I would be able to talk with you about this" can't hurt if you think it's true, of course. Also, when attempting to resolve conflict, using lots of 'I's is generally diffusing. Saying lots of 'you's can make people more defensive. For example, the same information can be worded, "I've noticed how distracted I've become since I've been hearing the loud music," instead of, "You're really distracting me with all the loud music you've been playing."

"Fall seven times, stand up eight." -Japanese Proverb <3

 

[truth seeker]

That I will start mumbling, shaking, perspiring... I have been in this situations before and everytime it's the same old story and now I am reluctant to put myself there... Whatever plan I had beforehand, disappears within a flash, next thing I know a whole series of chemical reactions start taking place and I lose control of myself, I can't think, I can't talk straight. It is really horrible. I just can't do it as other people, it is very hard for me. And the thing that makes it really really bad is after putting all my effort to go and 'speak' after it happens that nothing changes or the discussion is soon forgotten etc.

I wonder then if you didn't so much forget when the opportunity occurred as you dissociated because of the fear? Like an immediate (unconscious) reaction that occurred in response to your discomfort level?

I have thought about it practically, when do I go speak to him? When there is no music? That will seem so out of place, like a random thing. He will ask, why havent you ever come and expressed it before, then I will have to go into more explaining etc. Open up my heart and how I feel etc only to have it squashed back down again when the music starts booming. What about when the music is playing really loud? Walk into his room and tell him to turn it down? And ask him to not play it so loudly in future? Wont that seem like a confrontation?

I don't think it's a confrontation unless you make it so. The fact that he was aware enough to ask about it works in your favor as he brought it up first. It gives you an opening, or so I think.

Note that a good portion of what you've written above is your own thoughts about what may happen. They may have no basis in reality. The only way you will know what will happen is if you take a step to do something. If we all lived in these illusionary thoughts of "what if", nothing would ever get accomplished.

I am literallly stuck in fear and you are right about this manifesting itself over and over in my life. I have tried to fight it before by stepping out of my comfort zone and I have gotten the same result always. It is equally as hard everytime and no rewiring takes place. I feel the same everytime, the same things happen everytime interms of how I react. Despite whatever conviction I have beforehand, I lose all control and become a passenger in a sinking ship. Before, I have written scripts, thought of all possible scenarios and my responses, been as prepared as I can possibly be. This has worked to an extent as long as I can manage to keep the conversation within the script because then I know what to do but it doesnt prepare me for the future because the future is dynamic and doesnt keep to scripts so I find that everytime I face the same problem, I have to go through the same thing over and over again and infact no growth or learning takes place. Now, I just feel like I don't want to go there because of all the past memories. I feel like, instead of trying to change out there I should try and change myself so that things that bother me, don't bother me...

While it's true that we should work on ourselves, part of that encompasses learning to communicate with others. We cannot avoid our life. What will you do when something happens where it's crucial to take action? If you have no practice, you will more than likely attempt to avoid that was well. Require more of yourself. You can do this. If you want to focus on a thought, think of how you will feel if you speak with him and he lowers the music. As you keep practicing, standing up for yourself becomes easier and easier. Small steps. remember? :)

I fear this whole thread might have been a huge waste of time because infact I have hit the wall and refused to proceed thus wasting everyone elses time. This whole thing is so irrational but it carries so much weight for me. I manouveur my whole life on this paradigm. You could say this is the central axis of my life. It is a horrible thing having to live being ruled by such irrational fears.

Well, perhaps it's not a waste to some reading this thread. It may be a waste to you personally if you continue to do what you've always done which gets you nowhere fast. I know from firsthand experience what you're going through. All it takes is practice.

I think it will also help you in terms of the mind chatter. I find that when I stand up for myself in a calm and nonconfrontational manner, the thought loops lose their hold. I'm not sitting there thinking of all the things I should have said because they were said. It frees up my energy to be applied in more constructive and beneficial ways.

 

[luke wilson]

Aren't you tired of that yet?

It appears I am not. When I was about 14/15 at school, I was getting bullied(by my friends) and a classmate told me, you can stop all this if you wanted to. I told him it was ok and he proceeded to call me a human shock absorber. I have the capacity to absorb so much it astonishes me. It just builds up inside and for the most part I forget. When I was young, it used to build up for awhile, then it got to a point when I couldnt forget, then I provocked the person, it was the bully, for example once in a different school, he was walking past my table and knocked my pen to the ground and I said something mean about his mother(out of anger but in a calm way because I was looking for him to start on me first) then he looked at me and told me to repeat what I said and I did. He came over and hit me on the face, then next thing I know I am being separated from him and he is bleeding. Explosion of anger in fury in an uncontrolled way after months of build-up. However that was when I was young. It so happens that in those days, after awhile It weighed down on me and I had to relieve it. Bullying at that school stopped after that. Then moved to a different school and bullying resumed but this time I just endured, it wasn't physical bullying but bullying with words mostly. Nowadays, I forget so easy. It is like an intricate system of buffers or programs or whatnot has been build inside me so that, I can pretty much neglect myself and it wouldnt weigh down on me 'outside' those windows of irritation. Like, during when I am trying to work and the music is playing really loud, I can be very irritated, but afterwards it is like nothing happened. Only a thought of 'oh, I was really irritated' like it is something that happened years ago.

"I've noticed how distracted I've become since I've been hearing the loud music," instead of, "You're really distracting me with all the loud music you've been playing."

This is part of my problem. When I am irritated, it is 'YOU'RE really distracting me with all the loud music YOU'VE been playing' not 'I'VE noticed how distracted I'VE become when there is loud music.' That is how it feels. The words 'I have noticed how distracted I get...' would be to the contrary so I do not know what mechanism is in play. Self-importance or if it is normal to become distracted etc. The whole issue of why I become distracted is because, to begin with, inorder to understand what I am doing, I have to think and when the music is playing I find I can't think. Now to me it appears that, I might be blaming the music and him for my incapacity to think. Sometimes if it is something easy, I find that I can work even if there is background noise, but if it is something I am struggling with, I find that I get irritated. Also, now it just happens that if it is something easy, I stll get irritated just because the music is acting as a trigger even if I know I shouldnt be getting irritated. I dont like this one bit. I am seeing things happening, imprinting and I am powerless against it.

Anyways, I feel like I am doing alot of lip service to this and I dont think it is helpful because lip service doesnt solve the problem. I appreciate all the advice.

 

[ScarletBegonias]

"I've noticed how distracted I've become since I've been hearing the loud music," instead of, "You're really distracting me with all the loud music you've been playing."

This is part of my problem. When I am irritated, it is 'YOU'RE really distracting me with all the loud music YOU'VE been playing' not 'I'VE noticed how distracted I'VE become when there is loud music.' That is how it feels. The words 'I have noticed how distracted I get...' would be to the contrary so I do not know what mechanism is in play.

Think of how these statements might be received by him and also the information you would want him to gather from what you say. If I heard the 'I' version, I might be more apt to hear you out on whatever you are telling me. But, if I heard the 'you' version, I might be more focused on defending myself. FWIW it's a conflict-resolution technique I learned while I was working on a Master's degree in Education. I recognize you know his actions are the problem, but with particular wording you may be able to help get him to see the truth about himself in a non-confrontational manner.

 

[luke wilson]

I have just done abit of thinking and I have noticed, and I always knew but in the back of my head, that when I was young and getting bullied or when I was at home and lets say got annoyed because of A,B or C, firstly at home, I used to throw a tantrum which would act as a route for releasing that frustration. At school, I used to keep it bottled in then after awhile I would release because it became unbearable, usually in a sudden violent act because bullies know no other language. But then you have other forms of frustration that require a different form of release. For example, after awhile, at a certain age, 15/16 bullying took on a different form, words and you can't respond to words with violence because then that would put you on the wrong. This new bullies were more clever, they avoided physical confrontation, they were more sly with words though. Ok, at home, frustration took on the form of expectations, parents blaming me for not being good enough etc. How do you respond to these two types of more refined forms of torment? Well, I didnt know how, one thing I knew, was I am going to do the opposite of what my parents expected because I had no desire to satisfy there wishes whatsoever, but that was not a release but has become a way of life surprisingly, even after they have changed there behaviours. Then ontop of this you have frustrations that grow in life, in general. Now I am worried, because I have alot of repressed stuff and the problem is I know it is repressed because I havent released it yet, the problem is I DONT KNOW where it is. It is like there is some huge capacitor that has this stuff in it and has been accumulating for years and the problem is I can't feel it to the point where my outwards expression is, everything is fine. When infact it is anything but... If the smaller capacitors I experienced when I was young are anything to go by, sudden immediate releases are not a good thing and infact can be abit destructive.

Now I know for example, talking and writing like I am doing now is abit therepeutic and can act as a release, but what I want to know is, is that enough? You can talk, talking can make you feel good but for the most part, the deepest frustrations carry on through life and take on different form and despite how much talk one does, the underlying roots don't get changed. There is only so much the organism can take before it has to reset or am I mistaken? Can it be that one can forget(dissociate) so deeply, so resoundingly that infact this can be a way for the organism to cope when there is no way for it to release? Because I fear this is what might be happening to me. Especially with this comment:

I wonder then if you didn't so much forget when the opportunity occurred as you dissociated because of the fear?

But when I was young, to begin with, I feared confronting the bullies, then afterawhile, fear didnt mean anything and at this point there was an explosion because the bully had the wrong impression because he thought he subdued me because of his strength rather because of my lack of taking action. Now I am worried because I know the little control my personality has over my whole organism. I have heard about negative emotions being transformed to positive use and one experiences 'joy' and I have to say, I havent experienced 'joy' so I am worried that I might have awhole lot of repressed negative stuff just sitting there and at some point it'll weigh down on me to the point where they'll be another explosion only this time I dont know what form it'll take. Last explosion I experienced was to do with academic work where after years of frustration of underachieving, I got this 'strength' dont know from where and for 6 months I was top of everything, across the whole board. The highlight being that, during this period we had a test, a surprise test, and I remember experiencing 'fear' because I knew I hadnt revised because it was a surprise test but I knew I didnt want to go back to that old place of failing and I absolutely destroyed that exam. My mind was making thngs up as I went along. I look at the question and am like, ok, I dont know this but I have the memories of writing this stuff down in my book plus all the years of training of thinking logically plus this burning fire. This lasted until I realised there was no point to be top of stuff or infact try at all once I filled that void and showed myself I am not worthless.

So I have come to know that, the body has hidden places. And I know right now, I am flirting with fire and have been flirting with it for years and it is the kind of fire the personality has no control over.

How does this relate to the current problem? Well, to do with me forgetting when I had the opportunity. Maybe it was unconscious dissasociation as truth seeker said due to all past traumas. Maybe it was just simple forgetfullness. I know that the 2 feelings, 'the irritation' and 'the calm' are so far apart that there is something missing in the middle that makes my behaviour seem abit unusual, that is why everyone is saying it should be easy whilst I am not finding it easy at all. I really dont know... All I know is, I am going to buy time, last weeks of the semester before spring/easter break so not long to go. After that only acouple more weeks before the whole year is over. I dont have the kind of strength to go and have this discussion with him and I dont want to lie that I do. I thought I did but I just cannot. Putting it into perspective removing the element of 'I' it is an inconsequential problem.

 

[truth seeker]

Now I am worried, because I have alot of repressed stuff and the problem is I know it is repressed because I havent released it yet, the problem is I DONT KNOW where it is. It is like there is some huge capacitor that has this stuff in it and has been accumulating for years and the problem is I can't feel it to the point where my outwards expression is, everything is fine. When infact it is anything but... If the smaller capacitors I experienced when I was young are anything to go by, sudden immediate releases are not a good thing and infact can be abit destructive.

Well, the first thing is breathe. Many people have repressed anger. Doing ee can help greatly with that.

As I see it, and I may be off, is that when we are able to do something that releases the strong feelings we have, it does gradually lessen. It does depend on how they are released however. Anger is not an enemy but rather can be used as a tool - it can let us know that something is wrong - something is upsetting us that needs to be addressed. Very often, I find that underneath the anger is sadness and disappointment. Getting to the bottom of it will take some time, so have patience with yourself.

Now I know for example, talking and writing like I am doing now is abit therepeutic and can act as a release, but what I want to know is, is that enough? You can talk, talking can make you feel good but for the most part, the deepest frustrations carry on through life and take on different form and despite how much talk one does, the underlying roots don't get changed. There is only so much the organism can take before it has to reset or am I mistaken? Can it be that one can forget(dissociate) so deeply, so resoundingly that infact this can be a way for the organism to cope when there is no way for it to release? Because I fear this is what might be happening to me. Especially with this comment:

That's how I understand it. I would need to know more about how often you find yourself forgetting. It may also be that you find yourself more forgetful because you're stressed.

How does this relate to the current problem? Well, to do with me forgetting when I had the opportunity. Maybe it was unconscious dissasociation as truth seeker said due to all past traumas. Maybe it was just simple forgetfullness. I know that the 2 feelings, 'the irritation' and 'the calm' are so far apart that there is something missing in the middle that makes my behaviour seem abit unusual, that is why everyone is saying it should be easy whilst I am not finding it easy at all. I really dont know... All I know is, I am going to buy time, last weeks of the semester before spring/easter break so not long to go. After that only acouple more weeks before the whole year is over. I dont have the kind of strength to go and have this discussion with him and I dont want to lie that I do. I thought I did but I just cannot. Putting it into perspective removing the element of 'I' it is an inconsequential problem.

Well, I don't think I said it would be easier so I apologize if gave that impression. It is easier said than done. If it's really that stressful for you and the problem of loud music is one you can deal with, then hold off. No one will think less of you. Perhaps it's just not time yet.

The only thing I can add is to try to be aware of what your thoughts are when these situations arise. Perhaps then you will come to see something between the calm and the irritation. It does sound as if you are shutting down in some part of the process, in my opinion. I don't remember if you ever said that you considered seeing a therapist. Talking it out with someone can be helpful in unearthing repressed feelings.

Be gentle with yourself. If you can, perhaps at some point soon, you can do the ee program - maybe without the baha portion?

 

[Buddy]

What is it that you're afraid he will do, think or say? What's the worst thing you think will happen?

That I will start mumbling, shaking, perspiring... I have been in this situations before and everytime it's the same old story and now I am reluctant to put myself there...

You can interrupt the interpretation patterns at the beginning of this reaction, before these physical sensations start getting so intense. Have you read the Wave where Laura explains how the physiological manifestations of fear and excitement are both identical? You cannot tell them apart.

So, suppose when these sensations begin, this is really just the beginning of excitement at the prospect of a new, unpredictable, learn-as-you-go experience? The kind that got you excited and feeling alive when you were a child? Maybe, like the rest of us, you just had to learn to squelch this excitement and twist it back into yourself to prevent punishment of some sort? You have really been through some aversion therapy, but you can undo it step by step. Reframe the situation and interrupt the regular pattern of your thoughts and movements in some way.

 

[luke wilson]

Have you read the Wave where Laura explains how the physiological manifestations of fear and excitement are both identical?

I have read the wave but I dont remember this part. Do you know wherebouts it is? This is a completely new idea to me, dont know how I couldnt have registered it during the first reading. New way to look at fear.

 

[Buddy]

Have you read the Wave where Laura explains how the physiological manifestations of fear and excitement are both identical?

I have read the wave but I dont remember this part. Do you know wherebouts it is? This is a completely new idea to me, dont know how I couldnt have registered it during the first reading. New way to look at fear.

Try here:

http://cassiopaea.org/cass/wave13h.htm

How can we stop the behaviors that provide our brain's highest reward?

Neuroscientist, Dr. Joseph LeDoux, professor of Science at New York University Center for Neuroscience has examined the way the brain shapes our experiences and our memories. His studies have unraveled the workings of emotions in general. He discovered that many neural pathways "bypass" the higher thinking parts of the brain.

The brain mechanisms that generate a given mental state, or what we choose, for the sake of convenience to call emotion, also give rise to certain measurable physiological states, such as pulse rates or brain waves, as well as observable behaviors such as running away or smiling. "Feelings," by contrast, are a conscious, subjective labeling of the individual's state. One person may say "I feel excited," and another may say "I feel afraid," and both will exhibit the same physiological symptoms and characteristic brain waves. So, trying to work backward is problematical. Dr. LeDoux writes:

...Fear is pervasive. ...Fear is a good emotion to study [because] it is at the root of many psychiatric problems. The so-called anxiety disorders - panic attacks, obsessive-compulsive disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder - make up about half of all the psychiatric conditions that are treated every year, not including substance-abuse problems.

...The brain system that generates fear behavior evolved to help animals stay alive and has been preserved for millions of years, across a variety of species. The way that we act when we're afraid - the way the body responds - is very similar to the way that other animals act when they're afraid, even though we aren't reacting to the same things. A rat would never be sent into a panic attack by the news that the stock market had crashed, and a human is not,, ordinarily, afraid of a cat. But the way our body responds to the news of a stock market crash is very similar to the way the rat's body responds when it sees a cat. This is critically important, because it means that we can study the behavior of other animals, and the processes in their brains, to learn how the human fear system works.
[...]

 

[cubbex]

Why its interesting to me, is why you need help with this, he is not trying to kill you or whatever. If the case is to post every problem on my life I would write and make lot of threads to ask what to do with this people that bothers me.

The best, sometimes is to find the answers inside you Luke, why is so hard????

Hi cubbex,

I do not agree. If Luke needs to deal with it this way, then that is the way he is most comfortable. And besides, he has got really good feedback that can serve a lot of people. As long as the noise is down, I don't think there is any problem with doing it that way. ;)

Well, that means that everyone has different ways of work on themselfs. The thing is, that there is a moment on your life, where you do not need to ask so much for your problems, I mean, think by yourself, unless it is a complex problem I think it is good to ask.

For example, by this moment I am having problems with one guy that is telling to everybody on my school that if they do not evangelize me, they should avoid me because I may take them away from Christ love, then I have some psycho girl stalking me, and she is a teacher, then a schoolmate that because of his assumptions and prejudices is saying I am mentally ill with no info to support it, then this bigs stress on my house because of my brother is screaming all day long with his mother (that its not mine), then I had some heart atack last weekend. So there are lot of problems with this people, and you know, there will not be always the forums members to say what I have to do or my parents. Walk by yourself was my intend.

Good luck Luke, but I think you need to think by yourself and get a way to solve it.

Edit: Redaction

 

[Buddy]

For example, by this moment I am having problems with one guy that is telling to everybody on my school that if they do not evangelize me, they should avoid me because I may take them away from Christ love, then I have some psycho girl stalking me, and she is a teacher, then a schoolmate that because of his assumptions and prejudices is saying I am mentally ill with no info to support it, then this bigs stress on my house because of my brother is screaming all day long with his mother (that its not mine), then I had some heart atack last weekend. So there are lot of problems with this people, and you know, there will not be always the forums members to say what I have to do or my parents. Walk by yourself was my intend.

Good luck Luke, but I think you need to think by yourself and get a way to solve it.

Edit: Redaction

Hi cubbex. As a member of a network, you don't have to keep all that stress bottled up. Having a heart attack is not a good sign.

As you know, there is The Swamp where you can dump all you want - even scream and shout to 'get it out'. You can even say you just want to vent and don't want anyone to 'tell you what to do.' I do not think that anyone will think less of you - or think that you cannot 'walk by yourself'.

Like the EE, it's a tool for you to use for your benefit if you feel like it and it sounds like you just might (feel like it).
:)

 

[truth seeker]

Well, that means that everyone has different ways of work on themselfs. The thing is, that there is a moment on your life, where you do not need to ask so much for your problems, I mean, think by yourself, unless it is a complex problem I think it is good to ask.

Perhaps LW's way is not your way?

For example, by this moment I am having problems with one guy that is telling to everybody on my school that if they do not evangelize me, they should avoid me because I may take them away from Christ love, then I have some psycho girl stalking me, and she is a teacher, then a schoolmate that because of his assumptions and prejudices is saying I am mentally ill with no info to support it, then this bigs stress on my house because of my brother is screaming all day long with his mother (that its not mine), then I had some heart atack last weekend. So there are lot of problems with this people, and you know, there will not be always the forums members to say what I have to do or my parents. Walk by yourself was my intend.

Good luck Luke, but I think you need to think by yourself and get a way to solve it.

I think I understand what you're trying to say. The thing is, everyone's requirements are different. What you "think" you need may be different from what others need. It seems you may be trying to hold him to standards that you hold yourself to. That doesn't always fit. Perhaps what you're really doing is projecting - you feel that because you handle problems on your own, lw should be at that same place. Perhaps he isn't yet. When he begins to not only understand the tools that are being given to him but also knows how to use them, I think he'll do fine.

I also agree with Bud's advice. Perhaps you should consider it? This network is not only here for lw but for you as well.

 

[cubbex]

;) Got it!

I know, maybe, or in fact, I was projecting. And I am understanding now... mmm those spirits of trauma always catch you.

Now that I see my error of telling this, in the decoz numerology said that I solve problems "grabbing the bull by the horns". Whatever, sorry if I didn't respect others ways of solving problems. It could be a good try to do it alone, lol. Thanks.

Edit: Add

 

[luke wilson]

OMG I DID IT! But in a slightly different way.

His music was playing loud and I sent him a text instead and he turned it down!!!!! Then I felt slightly guilty and sent more texts saying the walls are crap... Maybe I should have just left it with, 'Thank you for turning it down' but instead I mumbled abit so I dont know if that difused the whole thing... Time will tell!!!!

 

[truth seeker]

OMG I DID IT! But in a slightly different way.

His music was playing loud and I sent him a text instead and he turned it down!!!!! Then I felt slightly guilty and sent more texts saying the walls are crap... Maybe I should have just left it with, 'Thank you for turning it down' but instead I mumbled abit so I dont know if that difused the whole thing... Time will tell!!!!