Alcohol

[Paragon]

Thanks for your reply A.I :)

I will do more research on alcohol.

My diet is poor, I have stopped eating as much gluten as I used to but I usually have a chicken wrap from work everyday and a chocolate cookie which contains diary. Other than that, I eat beef or chicken every night for dinner, fried in either lard or goose fat, with fries to 'fill me up'. This isn't ideal I know, but it was a progression from say 6 or more months back when I would just eating be a lot more rubbish. I usually skip breakfast as it makes me nauseous to eat a lot of fat in the morning. It's basically a lack of planning and laziness on my part that I'm not able to get my diet down, along with my binge drinking at the weekend, that brings me down.

One thing I've noticed is that I get a lot of gas and acid reflux when eating lots of meat, even diarrhea in some cases. I love eating meat too. I've read that taking some milk thistle will help with the digestion issues,
and that it might be related to a sluggish liver as well.

I have been reading the threads on the vegetarian myth and life without bread indeed, but I seem to have no will on the diet side of things more so than any other area in my life. I'm not sure why perhaps I have a poor connection to my moving centre?

 

[Approaching Infinity]

My diet is poor, I have stopped eating as much gluten as I used to but I usually have a chicken wrap from work everyday and a chocolate cookie which contains diary. Other than that, I eat beef or chicken every night for dinner, fried in either lard or goose fat, with fries to 'fill me up'. This isn't ideal I know, but it was a progression from say 6 or more months back when I would just eating be a lot more rubbish. I usually skip breakfast as it makes me nauseous to eat a lot of fat in the morning. It's basically a lack of planning and laziness on my part that I'm not able to get my diet down, along with my binge drinking at the weekend, that brings me down.

The thing about the diet is that if you aren't doing it, you aren't doing it. It's really that simple. As long as you eat gluten, dairy, alcohol, etc. your problems will only get worse. The thing is, you lack will to make a change largely because those foods are hijacking your will. And in order to get your will back, you have to stop eating those foods. Kind of a catch 22, right? Think about it this way. All the problems you have now, or think you have, WILL get better by doing the diet and EE. Your cravings will go away, your body will heal itself, and your brain will be freed up to do what it was designed to do. But you won't get there by expecting a roast chicken to fly into your mouth.

As for the breakfast thing, you probably have a sluggish liver, so get some digestive enzymes. Again, once you actually try it out, you'll see that after an adjustment period, you WILL be able to eat a big, healthy breakfast. You'll wake up hungry, eat, and then you won't have any cravings for hours. It's the carbs you eat (that includes alcohol) that you crave. When you cut them out, you won't crave them. But it takes an INITIAL act of will to do it.

I have been reading the threads on the vegetarian myth and life without bread indeed, but I seem to have no will on the diet side of things more so than any other area in my life. I'm not sure why perhaps I have a poor connection to my moving centre?

I think that years of an unnatural diet is probably a better explanation. The question to ask yourself is: Do I want to go on living like this? If the answer's yes, by all means do so. But if it's no, then do something about it. Sitting on the fence about it isn't doing you any good.

 

[Ennio]

There is also the fact that your liver is now burdened with toxicity. Remember, it is your liver that does the job of clearing out much of your body's toxins and poisons. The current condition of your liver will make it that much more difficult for you to fight many kinds of infections and sickness, which is why so much material has been presented here on detoxification, and the uses of the far-infrared sauna blanket, and supplements like milk thistle, nac, reduced glutathione and others.

Though I haven't had the same relationship to alcohol as yourself, Paragon, I did for a few years enjoy having several drinks a week. I didn't cut it down all at once but after a short period of time it was completely eliminated from my diet because of what we know about toxicity and candida. You can do this too! It may be difficult at first - but once you do you may find that you will not miss it nearly so much as you think you will. Start today. Commit to preparing yourself for the changes ahead and know that you can.

Have you been doing EE?? You may be attached to drinking in ways you do not even realize right now and Eiriu Eolas can be of help with this.

 

[Paragon]

[quote author=Apporaching Infinity]But you won't get there by expecting a roast chicken to fly into your mouth. [/quote]


FWIW I think humor is a great way of relating to someone else and helping that information flow better to the person recieving mirroring, all depends on the person of course! ;)

Back to the topic

[quote author=Apporaching Infinity]
The thing about the diet is that if you aren't doing it, you aren't doing it. It's really that simple. As long as you eat gluten, dairy, alcohol, etc. your problems will only get worse. The thing is, you lack will to make a change largely because those foods are hijacking your will. And in order to get your will back, you have to stop eating those foods. Kind of a catch 22, right? Think about it this way. All the problems you have now, or think you have, WILL get better by doing the diet and EE. Your cravings will go away, your body will heal itself, and your brain will be freed up to do what it was designed to do. But you won't get there by expecting a roast chicken to fly into your mouth. [/quote]

The strange thing is that I know all this at some level, but it just seems to have a lot more 'weight' when shared with the network, is this normal to experience? Is it basically the magic of mirroring? Is this the benefit of the work, that it HAS to be done with the aid of a network so that one can be sure that they are following the correct path?

Yes it is that simple. I just have to literarily DO it and not give the predator time to come up with excuses to not let me BE. And then I'll have a 'picture' to fall back on in times of mechanicalness, right?

I shall get some digestive enzymes and try them out.

I think that years of an unnatural diet is probably a better explanation. The question to ask yourself is: Do I want to go on living like this? If the answer's yes, by all means do so. But if it's no, then do something about it. Sitting on the fence about it isn't doing you any good.

No and yes. I can feel the real me screaming at me to fix my diet, my life basically and my false self ripping me back to the other side and claiming that I'll miss everything and partying etc. I have swung back and forth, some weeks I'm a lot more mechanical than others and then others I feel a desperate and deep down need to be real. Since I have seen what the work can do for me, I know my real self is getting bigger, but my predator tries doubley as hard in response to suck me back in.

Just how bad is it to sit on the fence like this?

Perhaps I'm on a path to a bankruptcy of some kind, though I'm just speculating.

 

[chachazoom]

A hangover cure. Apparently many people have a genetic mutation that prevents smooth alcohol metabolism.
at 34:40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PA-buwI3q4&feature=related

I be trying this out on Canada day. I use alcohol to decompress. I can go weeks, months sometimes but it builds and then I look forward to having a few, however I have to have a clear schedule, no sports for kids, rides, work the next day. I just find I'm more relaxed for awhile after I do. But I don't like floundering around the next day feeling off so I hope this works.

 

[Paragon]

There is also the fact that your liver is now burdened with toxicity. Remember, it is your liver that does the job of clearing out much of your body's toxins and poisons. The current condition of your liver will make it that much more difficult for you to fight many kinds of infections and sickness, which is why so much material has been presented here on detoxification, and the uses of the far-infrared sauna blanket, and supplements like milk thistle, nac, reduced glutathione and others.

Though I haven't had the same relationship to alcohol as yourself, Paragon, I did for a few years enjoy having several drinks a week. I didn't cut it down all at once but after a short period of time it was completely eliminated from my diet because of what we know about toxicity and candida. You can do this too! It may be difficult at first - but once you do you may find that you will not miss it nearly so much as you think you will. Start today. Commit to preparing yourself for the changes ahead and know that you can.

Have you been doing EE?? You may be attached to drinking in ways you do not even realize right now and Eiriu Eolas can be of help with this.

Thanks for the advice Ennio!,

I agree I might be attached to drinking in ways I don't even realise, perhaps it could be useful to anaylise this?

For example I like drinking because of the feel good endorphins that come with it but I do not like what it does to the body, and how I feel like I'm cheating my own spiritual progress. I mainly like drinking because of the social aspect more than anything, since nearly all of my friends binge drink at the weekend so it is hard to not join in, when everyone is merry and enjoying themselfs.

I don't feel a desire to drink unless I'm with someone, I could never really imagine me drinking myself because I don't see the point unless I'm sharing the experience with another. If I'm on my own I usually read up on here or play video games. Not that as soon as I'm with a friend I grab the nearest cider! Only when I am swayed by A Influences such as nice weather and a certain impression from the day, we might feel the desire to go out and dance and drink for fun, for example .

If I'm being honest, I've not been doing any EE, which I should be doing but I'm scared of feeling all those emotions that I have deep down, again.

 

[Ennio]

I agree I might be attached to drinking in ways I don't even realise, perhaps it could be useful to anaylise this?

For example I like drinking because of the feel good endorphins that come with it but I do not like what it does to the body, and how I feel like I'm cheating my own spiritual progress. I mainly like drinking because of the social aspect more than anything, since nearly all of my friends binge drink at the weekend so it is hard to not join in, when everyone is merry and enjoying themselfs.

I think that it is vitally important to recognize that, as important as companionship is, if you feel that you will be helpless to drink with your friends, then you may want to seriously re-consider how much time you spend with them. You may seem to have many things in common with them but how many of them are here - attempting to do the work that you are now engaged in?

I don't feel a desire to drink unless I'm with someone, I could never really imagine me drinking myself because I don't see the point unless I'm sharing the experience with another. If I'm on my own I usually read up on here or play video games. Not that as soon as I'm with a friend I grab the nearest cider! Only when I am swayed by A Influences such as nice weather and a certain impression from the day, we might feel the desire to go out and dance and drink for fun, for example .

Nothing wrong with seeing friends and dancing from time to time, but if you are feeling easily swayed to drink in this context then obviously there's a problem. Actually this is very good place to start from in terms of self-observation. You can start paying more serious attention to all those little i's telling you that "this one little drink won't make a difference", or "if I spend time with so and so I won't feel compelled to drink necessarily". All the mechanical little i's that chip away at the will to grow something real within ourselves.

If I'm being honest, I've not been doing any EE, which I should be doing but I'm scared of feeling all those emotions that I have deep down, again.

Yeah, those repressed emotions just love the dark, don't they? They tell you to feel scared about dredging them up so then you don't have to deal with them. Nice arrangement, eh? Start slow, Paragon. Start journaling and examine those emotions you are afraid of. Take some time with yourself, but start today.

As for doing EE, you can do the program with wonderful results without doing the beatha or round breathing for a while. Beatha is quite often what helps people to have emotional releases but you can do everything else and reap benefits for yourself right away without it. When you are feeling stronger, you can slowly introduce the round breathing.

Are you close to anyone giving EE classes? And if you aren't, are you in a position to do a little traveling to attend a class in the not-too-distant future? That may be something to think about.

 

[RedFox]

fwiw long before SoTT/C's and and finding my way here when I was at university, I was in a very similar place to you Paragon.

I agree I might be attached to drinking in ways I don't even realise, perhaps it could be useful to anaylise this?

For example I like drinking because of the feel good endorphins that come with it but I do not like what it does to the body, and how I feel like I'm cheating my own spiritual progress. I mainly like drinking because of the social aspect more than anything, since nearly all of my friends binge drink at the weekend so it is hard to not join in, when everyone is merry and enjoying themselfs.

One thing that it took me some time to realise was how inflamed I was. I was in a chronic state of low level pain. So it is entirely possible that one reason you drink is to numb the pain of physical inflammation - if you feel more 'alive'/at ease when you drink.
Trouble is drinking is inflammatory (along with gluten, dairy, sugar, too many carbs).
When I am inflamed I tend to seek dissociative behaviours in order to 'escape' it. Most of the time I don't know I'm inflamed, except for my desire to disassociate is really strong.
Another reason for the rush of endorphins you feel may be the release of GABA that alchohol promotes. Its likely then that your brain chemicals are out of balance too, have you taken the Ultra Mind Quiz?, I think it likely that you are out of balance in serotonin and GABA.

Doing things to get your inflammation down (not just the diet) would help you deal with all other aspects of this situation a lot more easily. FIR infra red blanket is good, transdermal magnesium, vitimin C and boswellia are all good. So is pipe breathing.

I don't feel a desire to drink unless I'm with someone, I could never really imagine me drinking myself because I don't see the point unless I'm sharing the experience with another. If I'm on my own I usually read up on here or play video games. Not that as soon as I'm with a friend I grab the nearest cider! Only when I am swayed by A Influences such as nice weather and a certain impression from the day, we might feel the desire to go out and dance and drink for fun, for example .

I would never drink alone, but always seek out my 'friends' to 'go get drunk with', because 'they where always so happy'.
Over the holidays when I was the only one left in the student house I found myself looking at photo's of friends 'enjoying themselves' either drinking or in general, and wept for 'wanting to be (like) them'.
It took a year, and finally after having run up a debt (using the money I should have used for food and bills and tuition fee's on alcohol/partying) and having failed my final year....half way through retaking it (all my friends had left) and having been out 'drinking' with my 'new friends'....not being able to get out of bed/go to class/do anything....I took myself off to the doctor and then the student counsellors to be told I 'was suffering with depression'.
Long story short, when I stopped running away from all the pain I felt inside at 'not being like everyone else', who I was trying my hardest to be like through the partying and drinking because they where always 'so happy' (turned out most of them where depressed as well), was just a way to try and avoid those feelings (which I saw as huge and thought at some level would 'kill me' if I went there).

If I'm being honest, I've not been doing any EE, which I should be doing but I'm scared of feeling all those emotions that I have deep down, again.

One thing I discovered about my feelings that's taken years to come to understand is they are massive for a few reasons. Inflammation and brain chemical imbalances will cause this perception of them. The part of you (the predators mind) that wants you as you are (heading for entropy) will also lie to you and tell you 'it will be your death if you face them'....when it will only be the death of your false personality - so be aware you are identifying with your false personality too.
Identifying with your false personality and wanting to be 'like others' comes from being afraid of what's inside - so we're back to being scared of those feelings again. Early rejection and/or being repeatedly told you are a failure leads to the above catch 22.
You look for the solution outside of yourself and do everything to avoid looking within.

These are just my personal experiences with such things, so may not fit completely with yours.

One was out of this is to do pipe breathing and the POTS. Once you are comfortable with doing those, you can try adding another element - that of trusting in them/the DCM (during the POTS) to do what is best for your learning/progression. Then if you are comfortable with that add another element - that of trusting the self/emotions (during the POTS) to do what is best for your learning/progression. Being gentle with and trusting the self during the POTS can go a long way to connecting with what needs to be connected with - it makes the emotions and trauma that once seemed massive and insurmountable slowly diminish in size.

Keep us posted on how things are going.

 

[Bar Kochba]

As a onetime abuser of substances and all-around drug-addict, I have begun drinking alcohol again in the past year. I was alcohol-free for 5 years before that. My experiences in the Work have led me to the conclusion that addiction is not a disease and we always have a choice. I went to rehabs, tried the 12-step programs, and none of it worked. I ended up stopping by myself through the Work and Super-Efforts.

Having said that, I drink vodka - but not every day. Sometimes one shot, sometimes a little more over the course of an evening. If I have a cold, or the flu, I find that clear liqueurs help with relief. Sometimes I feel I want a drink. Sometimes I don't. I agree that alcohol can be beneficial.

Getting drunk is another story. I've read accounts of the large quantities of alcohol consumed at Gurdjieff's meals yet no one seemed to become drunk. Gurdjieff once said that alcohol brings ones essence to the surface. I can see this because most drunks act like children!

 

[KTC]

I often wondered about alcohol too.. but not enough to pose the question on here. I enjoy a glass of red wine, and am okay to have maybe 2. Any more and I get hardly any sleep.
I read somewhere that alcohol consumption can actually stimulate your 'fight or flight' response and that is definitely the case for me. I used to drink a lot when I was growing up, at parties and stuff and I remember spending sleepless nights at friends houses while everyone around me was passed out snoring. No one seemed to believe me when I explained my dilemma about getting drunk. I'd maybe pass out for a couple of hours and then spend the rest of the night tossing and turning, waiting for the stimulative effects to wear off and eventually allow me to rest, usually as everyone else was just arousing from their slumber.
One bottle of good quality red wine over the course of the week is where I'm at. The perfect accompaniment to Salt Bush Lamb roast.

 

[Aiming]

I had my conscious last glasses of red wine last autumn. I'd always enjoyed red wine, but decided to cut it out, because I consider it a drug and thus to me, eliminating it belongs to cleansing the body (and mind). I also had negative physical reactions to it, like heaviness in my legs, and after an initial 'high' it exhausted me and I'd feel toxic for days afterwards.

Getting drunk is another story. I've read accounts of the large quantities of alcohol consumed at Gurdjieff's meals yet no one seemed to become drunk. Gurdjieff once said that alcohol brings ones essence to the surface. I can see this because most drunks act like children!

This is interesting, does anyone know whether this is true? I remember reading how G did this on purpose, in order to see what a man is made of, or something like that.

What I've observed is that drinking alcohol makes my programs stronger, I have less control. For me, it also brought out the child's emotions and being very communicative and jolly. You're certainly right about most drunks acting like children, or rather, acting immaturely.

I have lots of opportunity to be around people who like to drink. It's highly unnerving to watch how the same patterns repeat over and over and how they revert to lose all capacity for thinking and are just a bundle of emotions and feeding. That's why I prefer to avoid it.

edit: grammar

 

[mabar]

Since I never want to learn how to drink (alcohol) as many people used to tell me, I do not get use to, I think. Alcohol in the same sentence with learning was like a short-circuit. I had seen family members, friends, silbings, even my father, getting drunk, light drunk, social drunk etc… and I never want to be in their shoes.

A dear cousin was killed by a drunk I supposed I never was enthusiastic to drink either.

I do like liquors or quite strong ones like tequila/mezcal and fruited white wines and rompope (with milk) but having milk I am avoiding it … they are just on special occasions (like twice a year).

 

[Bar Kochba]

Everything has its place and its use. Gurdjieff called some alcohols "noble." But perhaps his tongue was in his cheek. Btw, accounts of Gurdjieff's dinner toasts can be found in books by C. S. Nott and Fritz Peters, among others. Bottom line, if you are uncomfortable with drinking, don't do it. To each their own.

 

[Alma.Innovadora]

Friends and me, we would gather to drink and we say: "Ok, is the time to philosophizing" We began to discuss many spiritual things on the religion, how bad was the world and the attitude of humanity.

In my case, my mind seems to release more - was as one week, many years ago which was also I tested with marijuana. Indeed, the fear is remove momentarily - When you drink that you like that feeling, that's when trouble starts, to depend to. "The autopilot" - like I say- sometimes takes place depending on the person and of course the intention for which accompanied his cup are often devastating. For example, If the intention is drinking to forget problems. Context of the person?

The person's mental weakness and emotional state.

In this right moment, I'm drinking and listening to music that has fed my soul during years ago, and emotionally, there's a bit of turmoil and I have carefully about what I feel, at the same time I think about every feeling and they are going slowly emerging, I'm trying, in the manner it considers appropriate, identifying them and ask the question objectively according to that accompanying that need memory, a longing. I can say, I do not feel any emotion Debast, as it was years ago.

A friend once said: "marijuana and the alcohol is the key to wisdom, we talk and think about deep things that sometimes you can not do, being conscious and sober. Things on your mind is free, some a bit crazy, but somehow this make us think."

I do not support this, but surely there things starting to emerge and as the cigarette depends on your genetic profile perhaps? And just as the commercial cigarette, contains substances toxic, also the alcohol and this are the cause of these problems to a level organic?

It was interesting until I passed the limit. The drunk says the truth, no?

 

[anart]

A friend once said: "marijuana and the alcohol is the key to wisdom, we talk and think about deep things that sometimes you can not do, being conscious and sober. Things on your mind is free, some a bit crazy, but somehow this make us think."

I do not support this, but surely there things starting to emerge and as the cigarette depends on your genetic profile perhaps? And just as the commercial cigarette, contains substances toxic, also the alcohol and this are the cause of these problems to a level organic?

The problem with alcohol, specifically, is that it puts you into an altered state and it is toxic for your body. Alcohol is a hard one because it's such an accepted part of western culture, it's a 'normal and healthy' part of life, in moderation, or so we're told. Of course, we're told the same thing about bread! Beer was the last thing I gave up on the diet. I didn't want to. I sort of 'kept it around', since I'd used beer to relax and unwind since my teens and it was a 'comfort'. I was 'used to it' and was pretty darn stubborn about letting it go, actually. Once I did, I was astonished at how much inflammation it was causing me. The difference was so startling that I've had no qualms about leaving it behind. I think the use of alcohol is an enormous buffer and one of the most common ways to prolong sleep - not to mention the fact that it causes significant inflammation, thus affecting your health and mood and ability to think/perceive clearly.

Speaking from experience, I think that anyone who is still drinking on even a semi-regular basis (even once a month) should stop for a prolonged period of time to see what a difference it makes. If you can't stop (or don't want to) then it's more important that you do. If the thought of never having another drink in this lifetime fills you with dread, then just resolve to stop for six months and then see where you are. fwiw.