Alex Jones - COINTELPRO? Fascist Tool?

[JohnBlair]

Alex Jones: COINTELPRO

What is wrong with Alex Jones? Maybe nothing. By their fruits you judge them, right? What is the fruit here? Well there is truth coming out, yes, but Jones delivers more than information. There is a mental frequency of coming disaster. A bad dream coming to a place near you! soon! Does the future unfold as we dream?

I remember hearing Jones on the radio one day. He commented that a caller had made a threat to some government people and Jones said he called the secret service on the guy. What a fine, law abiding thing to do. Excuse me, didn't he just say these guys are pedophile killers? So he winds up some loving but angry poor slob and then feeds him to the dogs? Just what is the goal here? Petition the Luciferians perhaps? Ask nicely? A scale needs an equal weight on both sides.

Maybe 911 movement is a divide and conquer. I personally think the answer is to dream these guys away (Neocons, etc). Keep an image in your mind, hold it. Hold a feeling. Find it and hold it. The one you want. Develop the faculty and I think we can do magic quite literally.

I like Alex, find him to be a lovable guy. He may be a wise fool.

 

[ark]

Alex Jones: COINTELPRO

I personally think the answer is to dream these guys away (Neocons, etc). Keep an image in your mind, hold it. Hold a feeling. Find it and hold it. The one you want. Develop the faculty and I think we can do magic quite literally.

I like Alex, find him to be a lovable guy. He may be a wise fool.

Dreaming is not enough. If you just dream - you will be killed in a dream. What is needed is to have knowledge and to act upon this knowledge. Try it: dream as long as you want and wish the mountain to move. Will it move? Try it, and tell us your results :)

 

[Laura]

Alex Jones: COINTELPRO

Might also want to have a look at this thread...

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=2066

...where we find that Jones is actually just another arm of the same Fundamentalist, Far Right Octopus.

 

[Joe]

Well, well, well, look at who has ALEX JONES as an honourary member!

Cretin: someone who signs up to a forum and immediately proceeds to post spurious, uninformed or paramoralistic comments before taking the time to inform themselves about the nature, content and background of the discussion in hand.

 

[Laura]

Alex Jones and 911 Scholars: The Parable of the Good Shepherd

From: "William C. Carlotti" <williamccarlotti@msn.com>
To: <johndoraemi@***>, <holmgren@***>,
"Jacob Roginsky"
Copies to: "Laura Knight-Jadczyk", <AMOJ_MAIN@Yahoogroups.com>, [DELETED LIST OF RECIPIENTS]

Subject: Re: 9/11 & The "veiled" sarcasm was not lost on me.
Date sent: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 16:38:42 -0400

Jacob---one of the marvelous things about the internet is the rough and tumble of the exchanges that
take place. Unlike the embedded corporate media which provides a series of talking heads along with
very carefully staged conglomerated sound-bites as its debate, the internet provides for a
relatively uncensored exchange which can be much ado about nothing but which can also provide the
useful insights of an extremely wide range of societal, technical, working, experiences that can
contribute immensely or even uselessly to the discussion.

It seems that your tendency is toward a restrictive dialogue which, when you get right down to it,
is precisely what produced the government's conspiracy theory with regard to the 911 events.----Bill

Dear Mr. Doraemi:

I intend to carefully, honestly, and respectfully review all that comes to me during the debate by
way of Mr. Holmgren. However, I an against permitting the debaters, Mr. Holmgren and myself, to
engage or be engaged by non-debaters during the debate and the preparatory process (now). My
experience tells me that such would quickly deteriorate into a zoo, with everyone cluttering the
"field" with their theories, making it difficult to see who is debating whom and what are the
current issues. I am already seeing signs that such dynamics are about to break loose here, with
non-debaters sending their opinions to everyone on the above large list
(AMOJ_MAIN@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AMOJ_MAIN@yahoogroups.com> does not see them because our list is
moderated).

I am, however, for a rule that would permit the submission of suggestions,
information, and arguments by non-debaters to the debater of their choice for consideration, but
doing so off the larger lists. I am also for permitting the creation of the behind-the-scenes team
so as to aid the debaters with their arguments and research.

I also noticed objectionable language in your post. Such should not be part of any truth-finding
process. All of us must commit to establishing and maintaining an atmosphere of civility and good
will toward each other, so that we would not end up devoting significant energy to unproductive and
counterproductive activities, such as dealing with insinuations that a debater is a disinformation
agent. Using abusive language, such as telling list members to f. off ought to be grounds for
removal of the offender -- totally unacceptable conduct.

Sincerely,

Jacob Roginsky

 

[Laura]

Alex Jones and 911 Scholars: The Parable of the Good Shepherd

From: "William C. Carlotti"
To: <jon.roland@constitution.org>, <AMOJ_MAIN@yahoogroups.com>,
"Bruce Boyle"
Copies to: <holmgren@***> [LIST OF RECIPIENTS SNIPPED]

Subject: Re: [AMOJ_MAIN] Re: 9/11 & The "veiled" sarcasm was not lost on me.
Date sent: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 16:58:53 -0400


What Jon makes clear, but I don't think it is his intention, is that the way you frame the
proposition for the debate determines the course and the content of the debate. I don't think that
this is exactly that kind of debate.

From my perspective the exchanges will be more like a fact finding search where the preponderance of evidence presented for the various and sundry elements of the events surrounding 911 will get scrutiny from the perspective of the government conspiracy theory and scrutiny from the perspective of those that assert alternative conspiracy theories or alternative explanations of the process or facts regarding the events.

---BILL

Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [AMOJ_MAIN] Re: 9/11 & The "veiled" sarcasm was not lost on me.


Before you can have a proper debate you need to agree on a proposition,
"Resolved, that ..." and it doesn't seem to me that there is agreement
on how to frame the question.

For example, one could debate the proposition, "Resolved, that the
evidence does not support the standard explanation of four airliners
being hijacked by Middle Eastern terrorists and flown into the World
Trade Center, the Pentagon, and crashed into a field in Pennsylvania."
That would not require argument for an alternate theory, but only that
the standard model is suspect. The proposition could also be broken out
into separate incidents, with inconsistency for any one of them calling
into question all the others.

A more difficult proposition would be "Resolved, the evidence is more
consistent with [theory x]", in which "theory x" is something like "U.S.
government agents flew the planes" or "U.S. government agents flew
something other than planes, such as missiles" or "most of the damage
was caused by explosives planted in the target buildings rather than by
the aircraft".

The point here is that there are many alternatives for how to frame a
debate and the alternatives need to be agreed upon if it is to bring
enlightenment and not further confusion.

-- Jon

 

[Laura]

Alex Jones and 911 Scholars: The Parable of the Good Shepherd

As the discussion for getting a debate going continued, other voices added their input and it became clear that one of the major divisions among the 911 people was between those who saw Israel as complicit and those who strictly avoided the Israel issue:

Date sent: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 14:00:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mecklenburg Judy
Subject: Re: [apfn-1] 9/11 - "THE NATIONAL DEBATE IS ON"....LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!
To: [SNIPPED LIST OF RECIPIENTS]

Zionism has evolved into probably the biggest problem the world faces. Jews and Arabs & the
Palistinians were living in peace in the middle east for over 1,100 years until the zionists gained
control and started their totally racist policies. There is a large difference between zionists and
Jews or Hebrews for that matter. Most zionists are either athiests or satanists, which is their
heritage. They are not the chosen ones.

Check out this article. http://www.rense.com/general64/moss.htm And there are many more damning
articles all over the internet.

The mossad & the cia were both probably deeply involved with 9-11. The spook agencies of the
world hail to the globalist money powers. J

"Again, I want to point out that it was this same group of Ashkenazi Jews, communist, socialist,
Bolshevik Jews who migrated from Russia to Israel, gained control of the Zionist movement and have
dominated the government of Israel since its beginning in 1948." -- Jack Bernstein, author of the book 'The Life of an American Jew Living in Racist Marxist
Israel.'

"Why should they, the Americans, have trusted us? We were a bunch of Russians, socialist
Russians." -- Isser Harel, former head of Mossad, speaking of the unlikely union between America and the
Marxist state of Israel

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.?"
-- William Casey, CIA Director (from first staff meeting, 1981)
________________________________

Wtcqd2000 wrote on 9 Jul 2006 :
Most of the below people are NOT "Israeli" they are Americans who have
some serious explaining to do at a full blown 9/11 investigation.

This "jewish" angle, you espouse, has been the single most damaging
thing to the truth movement. YOU and others LIKE YOU, have more than anyone
else, caused people to turn away from 9/11 questions, because you always like
to look at people's "jewish heritage," or "religious status" rather than just
following FACTS. You make us look like anti-semetic wing nuts.

Yes, every angle should be investigated where the chips fall. But,
this idea that Israel somehow did something under the noses of American
officials, and that they are the main conspirators is nuts. They may be involved, but
the investigation should begin with AMERICAN OFFICIALS, and then follow the
trails of evidence.

IF YOU ARE NOT COINTEL PRO, YOU ARE ACTING LIKE IT !!

<< This debate is for naught as long as it does not contain an Israeli
component. Failure to identify the ramifications of this issue
guarantee a just investigation will not be conducted. The roles of
Silverstein/Sharon, Zakheim, Perle, Wolfowitz and other sublieutenants
of the financial power structure reveal the all-encompassing deception
that everyone KNOWS happened: 9/11 was a dog-and-pony show to justify
endless war in their dulled eyes of the masses. >>

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com
http://www.nkuk.org
http://www.nimn.org

Certainly, since we ourselves, at SOTT, saw the Zionist angle from Ground Zero of 911, it struck me as most peculiar that ANY legitimate organization claiming to seek the truth about 911 could ignore this angle.

 

[Laura]

Alex Jones and 911 Scholars: The Parable of the Good Shepherd

At this point in the discussion about a 911 debate, another item popped up: the article in Vanity Fair:

Subject: Fwd: 9/11 Truth Movement makes big leap . . 4 page article in
Mass Media magazine!!
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 17:29:47 -0500
From: Kyle Jones
To: SOTT and Short list of recipients deleted

Keeping you updated. It appears their might be a crack in the wall.

Keeping my fingers crossed,
--
~
Kyle

Vanity Fair: Click Here For Conspiracy*

With $6,000 and a laptop computer, three kids from upstate New York made
a documentary about 9/11 that spread across the Internet and threw
millions for a loop.

This is another fair piece in the mainstream media on the 9/11 truth
movement. It shows the impact of the internet, highlighting how Dylan
Avery's film has hit number one on google video.

For those who haven't seen Loose Change, than you've been distracted by
an onslaught of government manipulated propaganda via mass media
outlets.

 

[Laura]

Alex Jones and 911 Scholars: The Parable of the Good Shepherd

So, let's take a short diversion to look at the Vanity Fair article; I think we may learn something about COINTELPRO:

 

[Laura]

Alex Jones and 911 Scholars: The Parable of the Good Shepherd

The two major things we notice about Dylan Avery's work are:

1) There is no mention of Israeli involvment
2) It seems to be pushing a bloody Revolution in the U.S.

The question that needs to be asked: Who would benefit from these two items?

 

[Laura]

Alex Jones and 911 Scholars: The Parable of the Good Shepherd

With the Vanity Fair article publication in the background, the discussion among the so-called 911 Truth people continued:

From: "William C. Carlotti"
To: SNIPPED LIST OF RECIPIENTS
Subject: Re: [apfn-1] 9/11 - "THE NATIONAL DEBATE IS ON"....LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!
Date sent: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 18:56:33 -0400

Richard Pierce wrote:
Debate??? Five years now and we still only debate. The Fed govt is probably gearing up for another
9-11 type assault on the US and/or the world and then we can debate that one too. Lovely.

"A senior advisor to Bush said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community,"
which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of
discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism.
He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire
now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -
judiciously, as you will - we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too,
and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left
to just study what we do."

---BILL

Date sent: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 20:48:07 -0400
From: Jacob Roginsky
To: Mecklenburg Judy
Copies to: SNIPPED LIST OF RECIPIENTS
Subject: Re: [apfn-1] 9/11 - "THE NATIONAL DEBATE IS ON"....LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!

Even if the below position were not idiotic, discussing it here and now
can only derail the debate we seek from its inception. This is all the
more reason for us to hold the debate in a format where only the two
debaters post messages in the open forum.

Jacob Roginsky

Mecklenburg Judy wrote:

> Zionism has evolved into probably the biggest problem the world
> faces. Jews and Arabs & the Palistinians were living in peace in the
> middle east for over 1,100 years until the zionists gained control and
> started their totally racist policies. There is a large difference
> between zionists and Jews or Hebrews for that matter. Most zionists
> are either athiests or satanists, which is their heritage. They are
> not the chosen ones.
> Check out this article. http://www.rense.com/general64/moss.htm And
> there are many more damning articles all over the internet.
>
> The mossad & the cia were both probably deeply involved with 9-11.
> The spook agencies of the world hail to the globalist money powers. J
>
> "Again, I want to point out that it was this same group of Ashkenazi
> Jews, communist, socialist, Bolshevik Jews who migrated from Russia to
> Israel, gained control of the Zionist movement and have dominated the
> government of Israel since its beginning in 1948."
> -- Jack Bernstein, author of the book 'The Life of an American Jew
> Living in Racist Marxist Israel.'
>
> "Why should they, the Americans, have trusted us? We were a bunch of
> Russians, socialist Russians."
> -- Isser Harel, former head of Mossad, speaking of the unlikely union
> between America and the Marxist state of Israel
>
> "We'll know our disinformation program is complete when
> everything the American public believes is false.?"
> -- William Casey, CIA Director (from first staff meeting, 1981)
> **********************************************************

From: Maryfromfla@****
Date sent: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 22:40:51 EDT
Subject: Re: [apfn-1] 9/11 - "THE NATIONAL DEBATE IS ON"....LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!
To: williamccarlotti@****, and SNIPPED LIST OF RECIPIENTS

_Silverstein buys Sears Tower - Google Search_
(http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Silverstein+buys+Sears+Tower&btnG=Google+Search)


HEADS UP.

Date sent: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:07:08 -0400
From: Jacob Roginsky
To: SNIPPED REALLLLLY LOOOONG LIST OF RECIPIENTS
Subject: Re: Sept 11 debate. Holmgren vs Rogisnsky - organizing.

DEBATE'S FOCUS

Jacob: It seems then that the focus of the debate ought to be the
merits of those 9/11 conspiracy theories and claims which you consider
to be most meritorious.

Gerard: Given the above, the onus is equally upon you to provide
evidence for your conspiracy theory (Arabs hijacking planes etc)

Jacob: There is some misunderstanding here. The debate has to be
about something in dispute between the debating parties. Albeit Gerard
is apparently disputing the government account of 911, including that of
19 Arab hijackers, he is not disputing any of my contentions, because I
have made none in this regard. What is in dispute between me and and
the proponents of theories that government actually committed the 911
acts is whether the existing theories make sense. Based on my exposure
to many of such theories, including those of the "Scholars for 911
Truth," I developed rather negative views of the theories and their
authors. (I do not claim to know all the theories, and am certainly not
familiar at this time with those of Gerard.) Accordingly, I enter this
debate wishing to convince myself and others that either the camp of the
proponents of the government conspiracy to commit 911 will not furnish a
single worthwhile theory, or to the contrary. Therefore, a logical
posture for me in this debate would be to wait for Gerard to furnish and
defend whatever theories/evidence/claims of government 911 conspiracy he
wishes, and for me to ask questions, analyze, and honestly critique the
theories, evidence, data, and Gerard's responses.


I do not represent the government and its positions in this debate --
I'm neither authorized, nor qualified, not interested in doing that --
but come to it as a reformer who perceives great harm to the image and
cause of the constitutionally-minded grassroots organizations from the
multitude of silly, ill-informed, irresponsible, crazy, and fraudulent
theories that are floating on the Internet in the name of patriots and
constitutionalists.


Jacob Roginsky

[snipped multiple repeats of previous emails]

From: "William C. Carlotti"
To: "Jacob Roginsky"
Copies to: SNIPPED LIST OF RECIPIENTS
Subject: Re: Sept 11 debate. Holmgren vs Rogisnsky - organizing.
Date sent: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:38:21 -0400


Jacob, What is in dispute in this dialogue, as I understand it, is the veracity of the
Government's conspiracy theory detailed in the 911 Commission's Final Report last updated on April
6, 2006. It is the Government's conspiracy theory that is being challenged in this debate which may
or may not, based on the information developed in the debate, produce evidence of Government
complicity in the events of 911.

---Bill

 

[Laura]

Alex Jones and 911 Scholars: The Parable of the Good Shepherd

I will continue to post this series of emails (and much, much more!) as I get time. I think that it is a valuable historical record of the so-called 911 Truth Movement, and many of the agendas and biases of the various participants will become evident from this dynamic interaction. I think that, at the end, the reader will be easily able to spot the disinformation agents...

 

[elevate]

Alex Jones predicts WWIII in the next two months

A must listen broadcast!

http:(2slsh)media.putfile.com/Alex-Jones-Predicts-Staged-Nuke-Attack-on-US-World-War-3-Follows-2006-08-10

check it out, Alex hasnt been this serious since two months before Sept11 when he predicted then a terrorist attack...

Jas

 

[anart]

Alex Jones predicts WWIII in the next two months

Well, we know that if Alex is spouting it, he is doing it because he has been told to do so. I started to listen to it, but he irritates me almost as much as GW - so - I must admit that I could not get past the first minute or so - however, a small observation - from the sound of his voice, he either has a major upper respiratory infection or he has developed some sort of vocal chord nodes - his voice sounds terrible.

 

[pescado]

Alex Jones predicts WWIII in the next two months

can anyone give a briefing on what hes spouting... i dont have the time or patience to listen to his acerbic rants. why does he think it will happen in the next 2months?