Alfred Hitchcock's Films
- Thread starter Laura
- Start date
Laura said:
Yes, they tend to forget the sufferance of so many millions of people It is jaw dropping.
It is also very disturbing to see that with so many death camps, the Allies, the British, the Americans, surely knew about the camps but did nothing at all to stop them.
Dylan
Jedi
Surely, there is some historical revision emphasizing the role of Hitler's ponerogenisis and drawing attention away from the western powers own versions of evil, but it does seem ridiculous when people seem to minimize the atrocities of the nazis. Yes Stalin was evil as well and created nightmarish conditions which likely resulted in the deaths of many, and we all know by now of Eisenhowers death camps for German POWs, but the suffering caused by the Nazis is no less evil for it.
The comments on the SoTT articles seem to indicate people don't think the SoTT crew is aware of the evil perpetrated by western or soviet regimes, which is ludicrous. I do remember reading about a debate in the UK parliament about an uprising in one of Britain's colonies, in which Churchill approved using poison gas to put down an insurrection in Iraq, but Nazi Germany does not get a free pass for their atrocities because of it.
The comments on the SoTT articles seem to indicate people don't think the SoTT crew is aware of the evil perpetrated by western or soviet regimes, which is ludicrous. I do remember reading about a debate in the UK parliament about an uprising in one of Britain's colonies, in which Churchill approved using poison gas to put down an insurrection in Iraq, but Nazi Germany does not get a free pass for their atrocities because of it.
Laura said:
Yup, totally agree. The most disturbing part of this film for me, was the SS servicemen AND women who were happily going about business, knowing that mass murder of men, women & children was occurring right beside them. I realise the power of ponorogenesis & authoritarian following, but surely these creatures would have to be without souls or conscience, to sit there and eat and laugh, while watching people die from torture & starvation. I'm sorry but delighting in the pain and torture of other living beings, is just not human.
I just couldn't make it..it's too much. I'm actually felling numb right now.
After 30 min I felt this horror coming out of me and couldn't stop my tears, a really visceral feeling and this unstoppable need of screaming..wow!
I'm in shock now..probably going to give a try later. :(
After 30 min I felt this horror coming out of me and couldn't stop my tears, a really visceral feeling and this unstoppable need of screaming..wow!
I'm in shock now..probably going to give a try later. :(
Arwenn said:
That was the most disturbing part to me, too. This is one of the best examples I've seen of how completely alien a psychopathic mind can be, and, in my opinion, it's more accessible for understanding psychopathy than descriptions of serial killers, for instance. People have become so ponerized from violent media that murder seems almost normal. But when you see those people laughing and smiling while knowing hundreds are dying right next to them every day, it's more shocking than whatever gore Hollywood can come up with, especially because the Holocaust is historical. This film needs to be shared more; it's unbelievable that people would believe Hitler was a good guy!
What I'm not sure of is Hitchcock's claim that German civilians really knew what was going on in the camps. My grandfather, who lived in Serbia during the war, said there was absolutely nothing said about the camps to the Germans in Yugoslavia. My grandmother was a child during WWII, where the closest camp to her was Dachau. She said that, in another village closer to Dachau, some farmers climbed the fencing into the camp. The guards caught them and kept them for a few days. They were let go, but the guards warned them that if they told anyone what happened, they'd go back into the camp. So the farmers told nobody until after the war. Otherwise, during the war, my grandmother said the camps weren't mentioned anywhere, although her family knew Jews were being deported. It'd be interesting to know what her parents thought of the matter, but unfortunately they died before I was born. Of course, it could also be a case of hindsight bias, as who would want to acknowledge that they accepted these horrors?
Argo
Jedi Master
Laura said:
Yes, it is totally unbelievable to me. I'm trying to understand why, are these people live in a total illusion, or do not have a soul, or have completely distorted soul?
I have a friend (not a close one) who had the same reaction and I was totally confused by such his opinion. He justified this with the words "I don't like Jews". I was so astonished that he was not saw human suffering in all that, just "Jews". I was confused because I had never heard so heartless attitude from him! And he said exactly that "Hitler was the good guy".
He is an artist, and he seemed like a Ok guy, but after this, I really do not want to have anything to do with him.
But I'm still confused, he didn't seems as a psychopath nor the heartless to me before.
Thank you Emma for sharing the touching story of your friend. It did remind me of the movie “The Pianist”, the horrifying scenes and the finale where Adrien Brody plays Chopin’s Ballad No. 1. It was indescribably sad and moving that shook me to the core and pierced my heart “Never to repeat this again.”
Hitchcock’s film touched me in the different way. Seeing the servicemen and women minding their own business without compassion or empathy towards inmates hit me again and again how people are susceptible and wiling to obey authorities – authoritarian followers - that I can see this can happen all over again in this current world which is distressing. Isn’t there anything good left in ordinary people’s heart? I don't believe that is the case, but if this is where we are going then…folly.
Hitchcock’s film touched me in the different way. Seeing the servicemen and women minding their own business without compassion or empathy towards inmates hit me again and again how people are susceptible and wiling to obey authorities – authoritarian followers - that I can see this can happen all over again in this current world which is distressing. Isn’t there anything good left in ordinary people’s heart? I don't believe that is the case, but if this is where we are going then…folly.
Psalehesost
The Living Force
In the comments for the SOTT article mentioning this film and its importance, a commenter ("Highland Fleet Lute") posted an interesting link. The holiday snaps of happy death camp nazis. It's a stunning illustration (literally) of how those nazis felt about their work - and, I think, adds to what Hitchcock's film shows in making even clearer the complete lack of conscience of the personnel running those camps.
Assuming that not all personnel in charge of those camps were psychopaths (though psychopaths were certainly among them), it's also a stunning illustration of how far the non-psychopaths among them can be removed from their humanity, their conscience so asleep that they look like psychopaths. And that's very relevant to what we're facing: as the SOTT article puts it, "Holocaust 2.0: Coming soon!"
Assuming that not all personnel in charge of those camps were psychopaths (though psychopaths were certainly among them), it's also a stunning illustration of how far the non-psychopaths among them can be removed from their humanity, their conscience so asleep that they look like psychopaths. And that's very relevant to what we're facing: as the SOTT article puts it, "Holocaust 2.0: Coming soon!"
SevenFeathers
Dagobah Resident
Laura said:
I'm sick of people posting that video about Hitler "The Greatest Story Never Told" or something like that. Hitler was not EVER a decent guy. Just because a bunch of people were taken in by him, that he had pets and kissed babies, doesn't mean a thing.
I recently watched this film with my husband (who came from a Jewish background). Going in, I told him I was biased against Hitler, so didn't really want to watch. He said it was not all about Hitler, it was about other aspects of history as well. So we watched. And we did learn some things we hadn't known (Eisenhower's prisoner of war camps, for example). We already knew how Stalin was a monster, yet he was our "ally". And how the monster Roosevelt allowed the attack on Pearl Harbor. The film was crafted in such a way that, after the film ended, we both felt oddly sad for Hitler. (When they showed the pictures of him with pets and babies, he appeared "normal", yet when I see pictures of Biden with children, it sickens me. When I see pictures of Bush or Obama with dogs, I feel sorry for the dogs. ) I am disturbed that I can feel this way toward one of the monsters.
Then we watched the Hitchcock film. We had seen parts of this previously, but it was a good reminder of what humankind has been and still is. One thing that really disturbed me was how, when they were forced to bury the dead, the SS men drug the bodies around like sacks of garbage and threw them in the pit. No care or respect whatsover, even by those soldiers who were guarding the SS. When they told the Germans, "look what your leader has done", I thought about Bush and Obama, our so-called leaders and all the people they (we) have killed since 9/11. When they spoke about the Germans knowing about the camps, but doing nothing, I thought about we Americans who know about all the killing our "leaders" are doing with drones and wars, and all the people we have in prison, and we do nothing. Well, not exactly "nothing". Those who do protest against the government end up in prison as well.
It is really disheartening to me to see the continuation of monsters throughout the centuries, and what we allow them to do.
I'm sick of people posting that video about Hitler "The Greatest Story Never Told" or something like that. Hitler was not EVER a decent guy. Just because a bunch of people were taken in by him, that he had pets and kissed babies, doesn't mean a thing.
I recently watched this film with my husband (who came from a Jewish background). Going in, I told him I was biased against Hitler, so didn't really want to watch. He said it was not all about Hitler, it was about other aspects of history as well. So we watched. And we did learn some things we hadn't known (Eisenhower's prisoner of war camps, for example). We already knew how Stalin was a monster, yet he was our "ally". And how the monster Roosevelt allowed the attack on Pearl Harbor. The film was crafted in such a way that, after the film ended, we both felt oddly sad for Hitler. (When they showed the pictures of him with pets and babies, he appeared "normal", yet when I see pictures of Biden with children, it sickens me. When I see pictures of Bush or Obama with dogs, I feel sorry for the dogs. ) I am disturbed that I can feel this way toward one of the monsters.
Then we watched the Hitchcock film. We had seen parts of this previously, but it was a good reminder of what humankind has been and still is. One thing that really disturbed me was how, when they were forced to bury the dead, the SS men drug the bodies around like sacks of garbage and threw them in the pit. No care or respect whatsover, even by those soldiers who were guarding the SS. When they told the Germans, "look what your leader has done", I thought about Bush and Obama, our so-called leaders and all the people they (we) have killed since 9/11. When they spoke about the Germans knowing about the camps, but doing nothing, I thought about we Americans who know about all the killing our "leaders" are doing with drones and wars, and all the people we have in prison, and we do nothing. Well, not exactly "nothing". Those who do protest against the government end up in prison as well.
It is really disheartening to me to see the continuation of monsters throughout the centuries, and what we allow them to do.
cubbex
The Living Force
Thanks for the vid, Alfred is one of the best directors, with weird tendencies and controversies behind him. I for once fell for that documentary of Hitler as the good guy, though I never finished to watch the full series.
I have to say another thing is that, I don't doubt that Hitler was a nut guy, but to think that the other forces at the time weren't that healthy either.
I have to say another thing is that, I don't doubt that Hitler was a nut guy, but to think that the other forces at the time weren't that healthy either.
I watched this documentary somewhat recently after noticing this thread. I have seen footage of the camps before but nothing like this. Horrifying. Finding it difficult to write about.
Thank you for sharing the links to the article and video.
Psalehesost said:
Thank you for sharing the links to the article and video.
SolarSoul
Padawan Learner
ohh.... it is truly shattering. I remember reading something about the life in concentration camps about the different states of being of the inmates. That there is a last state a state of total despair, of absolute hopelessness, where humans become zombilike, where the catastrophe shatters the mind to such an extent that one just stops to be consciously alive and becomes like a walking dead, not even able to think of suicide.
The most baffling thing to me is the gigantic structure of this hell industry. I mean the meticulous and effective execution of something so evil and inhuman is just beyond...I cant find words. Collecting human hair, recycling the clothing etc... That hundreds or thousands of people worked there, totally indifferent, as if executing a normal job. This is so evil that it becomes absurd, it becomes surreal, something other worldly and interestingly almost all the eyewitnesses used the word HELL to describe what they saw. Maybe that's why so many denied these camps. Because the scope of evil (I cannot find any other word) was just too gigantic to accept or believe.
And sorry I'm really sick of peoples first reactions being ahhh now the Zionists strategy propaganda bla bla bla...
This are human beings doing things to other human beings. Watching something like this does not in any way make someone symphatise with the Israeli government on the contrary. It is against crimes against humanity of all sorts.
The most baffling thing to me is the gigantic structure of this hell industry. I mean the meticulous and effective execution of something so evil and inhuman is just beyond...I cant find words. Collecting human hair, recycling the clothing etc... That hundreds or thousands of people worked there, totally indifferent, as if executing a normal job. This is so evil that it becomes absurd, it becomes surreal, something other worldly and interestingly almost all the eyewitnesses used the word HELL to describe what they saw. Maybe that's why so many denied these camps. Because the scope of evil (I cannot find any other word) was just too gigantic to accept or believe.
And sorry I'm really sick of peoples first reactions being ahhh now the Zionists strategy propaganda bla bla bla...
This are human beings doing things to other human beings. Watching something like this does not in any way make someone symphatise with the Israeli government on the contrary. It is against crimes against humanity of all sorts.