Absolutely. I noticed it when taking another look at the X-ray version of the painting. There may, of course, be another explanation for the figure but the old hag is so very much tied up with the story of Perceval/Parzival. Edward Kelley is already depicted in the painting, so I don't think it can be him. Obviously, Dee was renowned for Enochian magic and his divination with angels but this does not look like an angel or a demonic figure to me. Let me know what you think though.
Alton Towers, Sir Francis Bacon and the Rosicrucians
- Thread starter MJF
- Start date
mbww
Jedi
Your thread is rich with tidbits from everywhere and the inferences you make are somewhat hard to follow and understand (the 'hag' in the x-ray looks to me like a Kelley sketch based on position in the final painting and relative to face). And what's a 19th century fantasy painting got to do with the real 16th century Dee? He certainly didn't use skulls. So could you possibly give a recap of what you’ve covered and where you’re headed with your research? Just trying to make sense of it all. You've touched upon a lot of heavy topics (bloodlines, Graal, kabbalah, Summerians, Egyptians, even sex magick) and mentioned names like historical figures and English occultists, but what are you trying to convey, or is it a common thread to all this!?
moyal
Jedi Master
moyal
Jedi Master
The "Vitruvian Man" (supposedly circa 1490) is at least about the proportions of the human body.
Beyond that, it could also have something to do with the human being as a microcosm and the number-magickal-cabbalistic significances of the proportions.
This is at least the impression one gets when one takes a closer look at Agrippa's "De occulta philosophia libri tres" (1533).
The thread started out trying to make links between Sir Francis Bacon, Alton Towers and the Rosicrucians. These were all subjects the C's had referred to as being clues for Laura. These clues would also seem to link with the TDARM buried on Oak Island, an STS high tech device. Laura then suggested early on in this thread that we should incorporate bloodlines into the quest, since there would seem to be a certain bloodline connected to the Nordic Covenant that had a great secret that the bloodline covenanters had kept concealed for thousands of years. There is also the matter of supernovae to consider (the Philsophers of Dancar), as referred to by Laura early on in the thread, which brings in to play the Great Pyramid of Giza and its builders, who encoded secrets in it, some of which relate to novae according to the C's. I have a follow-up post waiting in the wings on this point.
Laura in her earlier writings such as the Wave Series looked into the mystery referred to in 'The Holy Blood and The Holy Grail' book, which supposedly uncovered a secret bloodline derived from the alleged children of Jesus and Mary Magdalene as preserved by the mythical Priory of Sion secret society. Although this society was subsequently exposed as a fraud, many commentators rightly conclude that the writers of that book had hit upon a real secret one that had been encoded by the painter Nicolas Poussin in his painting of the Shepherds of Arcadia. The C's even backed this point up by suggesting Laura should look at a particular double image perspective of the painting, which we have done. This then has led to a number of potentail findings and maybe other clues. The fact that Poussin (a man who knew secrets) was most probably a Rosicirucian and a contemporary of Sir Francis Bacon brings the Rosicrucians back into the melting pot. According to Gary Osborn, Poussin concealed hidden knowledge about the Great Pyramid in his paintings.
I agree that we have looked at a lot of themes in this thread but that is because the C's have said we are meant to consider a mosaic in which everything is ultimately linked together.
I may be wrong in some of my assumptions but the C's have said that this was a treasure hunt, at the end of which Laura would find the Holy Grail, the untold of treasure. Many people think the Holy Grail is merely a metaphorical or metaphysiacal thing, which may lead to the ultimate enlightenment experience. Certainly this is what Philip Gardiner and Gary Osborn believe for they think it is the Kudalini awakening, which will lead one to an altered state of consciousness. I, however, believe the Grail is a real object, the Merkabah, which can, amongst other things, change your state of consciousness but it has far more significance than that. It may be the ultimate high tech device and it is now lost awaiting rediscovery.
However, quests in themselves are also a path to discovery, which is what I think the C's intended here. The bloodlines that we are following had the Grail in their possession throughout millenia of history but eventually lost it. It gave them great power but no doubt they misused it at times. In order to work out the history of the Grail here on Earth, as opposed to Kentakia, you need to drill down into ancient history and mythology to discern clues as to the Grail and its whereabouts, which is what we are trying to do. Mythology has been used to encode ancient knowledge and scientific truths post the Deluge and destruction of Atlantis. I am trying with the help of various writers, including Laura and members of the Forum, to decipher these myths. Hence, you always need to look behind a myth to see what underlies it. One of these mythic themes is the underworld, which to the ancients meant Hades, the land of the dead. However, the C's have confirmed that there really is an inner Earth, which hosts a very advanced human civilisation that has interferred in human affairs here on the surface. The C's bestowed a massive clue on us by saying that Nefertiti/Sarah was a hybrid who came from that subterannean society. This theme will feature in further posts that I hope to do soon.
As for your comments about what John Dee has to do with a 19th century fantasy painting, I would counter by saying what has a tomb with 'Et in Arcadia Ego' inscribed on it in a painting of an ancient Greek, arcadian pastoral setting by a 17th century artist got to do with the Holy Grail? The point is that the Rosicrucians/Illuminati have used art, architecture, sculpture, plays and literature ( and probably movies today) to convey esoteric and occult knowledge. Before posting that particular post, I researched into Gildoni's background but could find no evidence that he belonged to any secret society. However, he was an established artist with the Royal Society and had been involved with an acting troupe in his early years, so he may have moved in circles which included certain esoteric types. The question is, why did he paint those skulls in groups of three and five and the spooky image of the figure on the extreme bottom left of the painting and then paint over them?
We don't know but we are entitled to speculate. You may be right and the image is another image of Kelley, this time without his hat on. The old hag and skulls have a metaphorical significance though and both are linked with the story of Perceval and the Holy Grail. In Celtic versions of the Grail story it is a decapitated head (perhaps representing that of St. John the Baptist beloved of the Templars and Freemasons) that is borne on the platter. It is also possible that the artist Gildoni had become aware of the Mayan or Mesoamerican crystal skulls that were a topic of interest in the late 19th century and had been on display in various western museums including the British Museum. If so, why did he choose to link them with John Dee? Anyway, he originally put those things into his painting and then chose (or was ordered) to paint over them.
My goal is now to follow the Grail and these special bloodlines through history and speculate as to what happened to it and to them. Moreover, Laura has said to me that you need to get into deep history and that is what we are now doing. If anyone has particular views on this, then please feel free to comment.
For your benefit, future posts I am lining up include a post on the pyramid wars in ancient history and an article linking the Assassins and the Templars together with the Holy Grail. Although my next will be a post I hope on the Tuatha de Dannan.
Last edited:
I am impressed by your work here. You are right that the image only seems to work at the resolution I showed it in. However, I don't think it is a paradolia effect, as the image seems too sharp to me. I have looked at it again and I am sure it is not Kelley since he is shown in the painting and appears to have a different nose and chin from the old crone figure. There is definitely a mystery here. Dee was supposed to have conjured up spirits during his divination sessions using the smoke glass obsidian mirror. Whether this is what the artist intended I am not sure but the mysterious figure sure does look like the classic old hag to me.
moyal
Jedi Master
One could ramp up the specualtion to eleven with the suspision that Gildoni himself did not know what he was doing here, because "something" lead his hand. Maybe this was exactly the reason for the overpainting?
But that would be speculation just for the thrill of it, of course.
It shure is the best "paradolia" I came across till now.
Whether Laura may have been Priscilla in a previous life is one I think you may need to address to Laura directly. When the C's mentioned that the earliest Christ or messiah was a woman, we cannot know just how far back in time they may be going, since Christianity has only been around for 2000 years, whereas human civilisation has been around for tens of thousands of years, if you include Atlantis, Lemuria and even earlier civilisations in the mix.
It is a common misconception that women did not play a role in spreading the gospel in early Christian times. Priscilla is highly regarded in the early church. Indeed, Mary Magdalene was also meant to have been a missionary in southern France. If you want to know more about her, I will speak to my brother as he is quite an expert on scripture and the early church fathers. I will try and address your bloodline point in a separate post.
Last edited:
I can see that at times this thread may seem to have been slow and meandering but the C's have said you must build your staircase one step at a time, since you may overlook something along the way otherwise. I am currently reading Gardiner and Osborn's companion book 'The Serpent Grail', which has a great deal of information on the Holy Grail and its history in literature and myth that could help to shed more light on some of the things the C's have said about this subject. However, I was struck by something the authors said in the opening chapter of their book, which I think is relevant to your question. I will quote them directly:
"The mythical journey we have come to know as the 'quest for the Holy Grail' belongs in part to the mystical tradition, a tradition that conceals its knowledge of enlightenment and other mystical experiences behind symbolic images and enigmatic language. If this knowledge were expressed in more literal language, it would be met with misunderstanding or even hostility. Also, it cannot be disclosed directly, because this would be to reveal the the goal of the journey before the journey had even begun."
And they added
"In the end, whichever particular image we personally have of the Grail, they all point to one unique and simple conclusion: we can obtain eternal life through the Grail."
