Another hit for the C's -- Native Americans?

[journey]

Cholas, Shijing

It is correct the thread when a little bit off topic, my point was to consider oral traditions as an alternative source to validate information form C´s, but the language used by the tradition is full of mysticism and magic thought (not wishful thought) I am quite sure there might be a difference but I do not see a reason to elaborate more about this.

Shijing, thanks for your recommendation, however, I am not so sure now to want to read the "Secret History", since author has not idea of the geographic locations of the Mesoamerican cultures.

 

[Laura]

Cholas, Shijing

It is correct the thread when a little bit off topic, my point was to consider oral traditions as an alternative source to validate information form C´s, but the language used by the tradition is full of mysticism and magic thought (not wishful thought) I am quite sure there might be a difference but I do not see a reason to elaborate more about this.

Shijing, thanks for your recommendation, however, I am not so sure now to want to read the "Secret History", since author has not idea of the geographic locations of the Mesoamerican cultures.

Suit yourself.

If you had been reading anything else on this forum, you would be aware of the fact that I have a lot on my mind lately and that I specially asked for consideration from the members during this difficult period. I have not had either the time or the inclination to read your posts for details and frankly, from the point of view of residents of the U.S. and Canada, everything beyond the border with Mexico is casually referred to as "South America."

 

[anart]

however, I am not so sure now to want to read the "Secret History", since author has not idea of the geographic locations of the Mesoamerican cultures.
[...]
How come you and Cholas come out in defense of Laura? Is there something here I should know? Why did you both changed your attitude after Laura´s rude post ?
[...]
Excuse me Laura, I am not promoting anything here, the dynamics of the thread have turned aside to this conversation.
My intention was to provide information to validate the topic only.
Interesting you mention have no affinity for South American traditions, because we have not been talking about South American traditions at all.
Laura, is this how you treat new forum members when topic is not of your interest?

Journey, let me make this very clear for you so you really have a chance of understanding it. Laura's post was not rude. Laura was pointing out the facts to you.

Your posts, however, as listed above, are rude. Your attitude is one of a person who is rigid and not listening and who has no intention of opening their mind and participating in this forum as a whole.

This is not appreciated.

In fact, this forum works very hard to keep a low level of noise, a high level of signal and comfortable environment for all - rude posts like yours do not contribute to a comfortable environment for all.

So - it really comes down to this: if you are sincere about participating in this forum then you need to adjust your attitude. If you do not want to adjust your attitude, then it would be best for you to move along to a forum that discusses what you want to discuss in the way that you want to discuss it.

I hope that's clear enough. Let me also say that this post of mine is not rude - it is factual, so please don't accuse me of 'treating a new member of the forum rudely', as you did Laura because that is not what is going on here. Instead of looking at what you think others are 'doing to' you - take a long moment to examine your own behavior and you might be able to see a clearer picture of what is going on here - if you can observe yourself.

 

[journey]

Suit yourself.

If you had been reading anything else on this forum, you would be aware of the fact that I have a lot on my mind lately and that I specially asked for consideration from the members during this difficult period. I have not had either the time or the inclination to read your posts for details and frankly, from the point of view of residents of the U.S. and Canada, everything beyond the border with Mexico is casually referred to as "South America."

No I have not read anything else on this forum yet, it is too big and not too much time for me to explore. So, I was not aware you are having a difficult period.

English is not my native language, so I have to write and think in a language which it is difficult to precisely translate, so translations are literals.

[quote author=Laura]Journey, I've followed this discussion a bit and my impression is that you really need to find a board where this topic is the centerpiece and considered a valid source. We, here, for a variety of reasons do NOT have an affinity for the South American traditions. You are more interested in promoting it than in reading and learning what we are interested in. So, again, my thought is that you should find a discussion forum where you will be more "at home." [/quote]

With all respect Laura
I still believe you were impolite in the post above. because of the context of the post and specially from the last sentence, which I Interpret as an "invitation" to leave the forum.

I just wanted to explain my point.
Regads.

 

[anart]

No I have not read anything else on this forum yet, it is too big and not too much time for me to explore. So, I was not aware you are having a difficult period.

Then, it would be best for you to read the other parts of the forum.

With all respect Laura

Journey, there is no respect evident in anything you have written to Laura.

I still believe you were impolite in the post above. because of the context of the post and specially from the last sentence, which I Interpret as an "invitation" to leave the forum.

I just wanted to explain my point.

Your point was already quite clear and, as I explained in an earlier post, you are mistaken. Would you please read my post in order to understand your current situation and what is necessary on your part in order to continue to participate on this forum?

 

[henry]

Although journey was not aware of what Laura is facing at this moment, when she was informed of the fact, it didn't change her attitude one bit.

I think that says a lot right there.

 

[journey]

Although journey was not aware of what Laura is facing at this moment, when she was informed of the fact, it didn't change her attitude one bit.

I think that says a lot right there.

Precisely, I was not aware of what Laura is facing, It seems no one gave me a specific indication of what is happening. just general comments regarding she is in a difficult period (no intentions to start any discussion here, ok?).

So now that I know with precision what is happening, I have posted my apologize to Laura in the proper thread and..... also here:

Laura:

Once again I deeply beg your forgiveness for the troubles I have caused to you.
I am deeply sorry.

Journey

 

[syldan]

For us Native American descendants right now: I'm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi%27kmaq descendant, and a lot of us suffer from high iron blood content, which translates to Prophyria Cutanea Tradae, ie: strokes and other sweet pleasures. That mixed with Latin temper, it tends to make for a fiery nature! We are looking at the fact that the H1N1 virus, and especially the vaccine is definitely decimating.... And the fact that the name of the virus is our area's postal code tends to send some chills down our spines, as we watch some of our elders disappear!

See the white man dancing?....

 

[shijing]

For us Native American descendants right now: I'm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi%27kmaq descendant, and a lot of us suffer from high iron blood content, which translates to Prophyria Cutanea Tradae.

Sorry to hear that -- I just looked it up, and it does certainly look uncomfortable:

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porphyria_cutanea_tarda

We are looking at the fact that the H1N1 virus, and especially the vaccine is definitely decimating.... And the fact that the name of the virus is our area's postal code tends to send some chills down our spines, as we watch some of our elders disappear!

See the white man dancing?....

I'm guessing that if H1N1 is your postal code, its probably coincidence (but see this interesting little exchange: _http://www.canadianmedicinenews.com/2009/09/federal-jokesters-mine-h1n1-flu-for-new.html). Not that it couldn't be the case that the vaccine is being aimed at indigenous communities -- that wouldn't surprise me. What do you mean by your elders disappearing? Do you mean dying, or literally going missing?

 

[Kel]

So, does anyone want to talk about the fact that there is a small pocket of Indians in the PNW, upper corner of NW Montana and NE Idaho, The Kutenai, (or Kootenai, or Ktunaxa) that nobody knows where they came from? Their language is an isolate. This means their language is not related to ANY other language on planet earth as studied by linguists. No one. No where. Is this not fascinating to anyone else? I've been trying to research this for years. I took a Montana Native American Studies class last summer and the professor just got a funny grin on his face when I brought if up. "Nope. It is a fascinating question. Nobody knows where they are from. Their customs and rituals are extremely different as well."

 

[gdpetti]

Maybe that's a ''Question for the C's''?

 

[shijing]

So, does anyone want to talk about the fact that there is a small pocket of Indians in the PNW, upper corner of NW Montana and NE Idaho, The Kutenai, (or Kootenai, or Ktunaxa) that nobody knows where they came from? Their language is an isolate. This means their language is not related to ANY other language on planet earth as studied by linguists. No one. No where. Is this not fascinating to anyone else? I've been trying to research this for years. I took a Montana Native American Studies class last summer and the professor just got a funny grin on his face when I brought if up. "Nope. It is a fascinating question. Nobody knows where they are from. Their customs and rituals are extremely different as well."

Language isolates are fascinating -- Ethnologue lists fifteen of them just in the US:

http://www.ethnologue.com/subgroups/language-isolate

Sometimes languages are considered isolates because there just hasn't been enough work done to establish their linguistic relatives, which is probably the case with several of the American isolates. Joseph Greenberg, in his book Languages in the Americas, included Kutenai in his Almosan group along with Algic (Ritwan and Algonquian) and Mosan (Chimakuan, Wakashan and Salish), but his classification is still controversial and not universally accepted.

 

[Voyageur]

So, does anyone want to talk about the fact that there is a small pocket of Indians in the PNW, upper corner of NW Montana and NE Idaho, The Kutenai, (or Kootenai, or Ktunaxa) that nobody knows where they came from? Their language is an isolate. This means their language is not related to ANY other language on planet earth as studied by linguists. No one. No where. Is this not fascinating to anyone else? I've been trying to research this for years. I took a Montana Native American Studies class last summer and the professor just got a funny grin on his face when I brought if up. "Nope. It is a fascinating question. Nobody knows where they are from. Their customs and rituals are extremely different as well."

They are an interesting people, and very much a people (at least in BC) who underwent ponerization by the missionaries and politics of the time; even now.

From excerpts from the book 'Handbook of American Indians North of Mexico', they are described thusly {mine}:
_http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/kutenai-tribe.htm

Kutenai Indians (corrupted form, possibly by way of the language of the Siksika, of Kútonâqa, one of their names for themselves). A people forming a distinct linguistic stock, the Kitunahan family of Powell, who inhabit parts of south east British Columbia and north Montana and Idaho, from the lakes near the source of Columbia river to Pend d’Oreille lake. Their legends and traditions indicate that they originally dwelt east of the Rocky mountains, probably in Montana, whence they were driven westward by the Siksika, their hereditary enemies. {Siksika - sik (black) and iká (foot), located mostly in Alberta (part of the Blackfoot), along with the North Piegan, South Piegan and the Blood tribes}The two tribes now live on amicable terms, and some intermarriage has taken place. Before the buffalo disappeared from the plains they often had joint hunting expeditions. Recollection of the treatment of the Kutenai by the Siksika remains, however, in the name they give the latter, Sahantla (‘bad people’) {Siksika}. They entertained also a bad opinion of the Assiniboin (Tlutlamaeka, ‘cat-throats’), and the Cree (Gutskiawe, ‘liars’).

The Blackfoot (interestingly is their 82% blood type "A" as opposed to the general 0 BT), make up many of the tribes, such as the Siksika.

Kutenai Tribe Language

The Kutenai language is spoken in two slightly differing dialects, Upper and Lower Kutenai. A few uncertain points of similarity in grammatical structure with the Shoshonean tongues seem to exist. The language is incorporative both with respect to the pronoun and the noun object. Prefixes and suffixes abound, the prefix aq(k)- in nouns occurring with remarkable frequency. As in the Algonquian tongues, the form of a word used in composition differs from that which it has independently. Reduplication is very rare, occurring only in a few nouns, some of which are possibly of foreign origin, There are a few loan-words from Sahshan dialects.

The Upper Kutenai include the following subdivisions:

Akiskenukinik
Akamik
Akanekunik
Akiyenik

Language isolates are fascinating -- Ethnologue lists fifteen of them just in the US:

http://www.ethnologue.com/subgroups/language-isolate

Sometimes languages are considered isolates because there just hasn't been enough work done to establish their linguistic relatives, which is probably the case with several of the American isolates. Joseph Greenberg, in his book Languages in the Americas, included Kutenai in his Almosan group along with Algic (Ritwan and Algonquian) and Mosan (Chimakuan, Wakashan and Salish), but his classification is still controversial and not universally accepted.

Interpreting these things amongst a likely fragmented peoples, within a number of possible big earth changes in history, certainly makes it difficult. There may well have been much mixing when thing were bad, changing or adapting predominant languages to those who survived.

 

[Dirgni]

Language isolates are fascinating -- Ethnologue lists fifteen of them just in the US:

http://www.ethnologue.com/subgroups/language-isolate

Sometimes languages are considered isolates because there just hasn't been enough work done to establish their linguistic relatives, which is probably the case with several of the American isolates. Joseph Greenberg, in his book Languages in the Americas, included Kutenai in his Almosan group along with Algic (Ritwan and Algonquian) and Mosan (Chimakuan, Wakashan and Salish), but his classification is still controversial and not universally accepted.

Interpreting these things amongst a likely fragmented peoples, within a number of possible big earth changes in history, certainly makes it difficult. There may well have been much mixing when thing were bad, changing or adapting predominant languages to those who survived.

Sorry for being off-topic.

With the exception of Basque, there is no other language isolates in Europe and also no in Australia mentioned in list above. Seems that the changes in history were very thorough there.

 

[Kel]

Thanks guys for your research and links. Maybe they are not as unique as I have thought.