Vonrette Parker
The Force is Strong With This One
28/50 Need a lot of work.
Are you an introvert or just a covert narcissist? Test!
- Thread starter Laura
- Start date
Kisito said:
If someone is serious about the Work he will see everything like a opportunity to progress, but if someone stand on the border and laugh to others, deceiving himself that he is better than others he will loose great opportunities to learn. At least this is my opinion.
I don't think that I have observed my self enough to know this answer.
Not anymore, I could easily put they behaviour in the box with the name. And I really enjoy that I don't have to cache for every "bad act" that I experience from others.
Because I have only one person in my life toward I'm almost totally sincere (at least as much I know that I'm sincere) and with others I don't comfortable to react how I really feel not sure that I could see real answer of this question.
Before, I fought that everyone look at me, all the time. Even when I was a child I was pretty sure that people tho interact with after they leave the "scene" with me, they go to laboratory fill with scientists with wolf's head. Now, I'm trying to hide from people.
This is answer is pretty much like Laura and Buddy. I'm very happy when someone gets credits for his acts because this is not happening many times and for people it is big encouragement to get this.
Uff, this is true, I blame my self because of this. When I tried to change this I force my self to listen someone and after couple of minutes I really enjoy to have opportunity to help someone.
Hmm, yes, I do. Most of the time, depends from who "things" are coming. But I have just realized recently (1 year) that I'm not in the center of the world
. It become pretty boring in that way of thinking.Nope! I'm very conscious of people around me. I have noticed that people they are not conscious of others most of the time brake something or accidentally push someone when they walking.
First of all, I'm not part of many groups, but I'm used to that I'm not appreciated in the group so for me is bigger stress when I realize that people like me.
My goal is that I came to the point when I can really see that helping others to solve they problems helps me to have better perspective to my problems, like Laura said.
Kisito
Jedi Council Member
Hi Dakota, sorry if I offended you, perhaps, it was not my inttention. I agree in general what you say, but I have the impression that you have difficulty applying it to you you. I think you know the difference between humor and irony. A key indication of this test on narcissism is "the importance that we give," and take everything at face value. This give importance to yourself, it's also give importance to others and judgments. Ie be susceptibility victim. We are not unique and the others are not unique. I think you should learn to accept laughter and self-mockery, that are not necessarily attacks. You did say all part of progress. And laughter is an excellent remedy (that is a dervish exercise). Being serious is one thing, "is taken seriously" is different. It is a border that is also able to distinguish. This stand on the border, it is also expanding its field of view and knowledge. My smile was not directed against a specific person, but to all of us, including me. Good growth in all of us.Dakota said:
Kisito said:
Kisito, do you get up early in the morning and plan all the ways you can be covertly and passively aggressive? You are a veritable wolf in sheep's clothing... Hmmm... didn't George Simon write a book with a similar title? Describes you to a T.
Ask-Seek-Knock
Padawan Learner
14/50
You’re probably not a covert narcissist.
According to your answers, you probably don’t spend all your free time fantasizing about your own awesomeness. Congrats.
Although, I realized during the test that one person I know could be a narcissist. Scary!
You’re probably not a covert narcissist.
According to your answers, you probably don’t spend all your free time fantasizing about your own awesomeness. Congrats.
Although, I realized during the test that one person I know could be a narcissist. Scary!
Buddy
The Living Force
onemen said:
In case it helps, I'd say that the form of your thought is mathematically correct, but if we're not careful with how we understand "considering myself lower", then we can experience a rubberband-like rebound effect that can potentially sling-shot us out of the Work. It's like saying we have the proper awareness or the terms that express it, but when we try and translate it to action we mistakenly put a suppressive force on ego that will just lead to 'oppositional defiance disorder' within ourselves.
In ISOTM, Gurdjieff talks about the correct orientation as well as consequences, I think, but he doesn't say it in modern psychological terms like the above.
Here's my take in case you find it helpful.
Depending on the person, it might help to engage in a project in which you can "forget about self" long enough to outwardly focus on others and what they're trying to do. The effort to DO for them...to help them...eventually pushes us to the conventional limits of our thoughts, knowledge, ability, etc. When we sense theses limits approaching, our Work would then target our limitations, focusing on discovering those underlying thoughts, beliefs, points of view, etc., that function to keep us within the corral of a herd, doing nothing all day but eating, sleeping, mating and waiting for the time when the corral-keeper requires our hide.
This is one way to look at the Work.
In my own life, in order for my personal Work to be increasingly effective, I have to be actively involved in my job and its projects for others, with clearly beneficial goals in sight - at least in the short-term.
So, try and lose any negative connotations clinging to the idea that's expressed by the phrase "considering myself lower" and think of it more as referring to a natural phenomena that's understandable in both, natural and esoteric terms: The more energy you put into advancing others and the health of your environment, the more energy will come to you (because we can't 'command' it) to help you do that because that would be in the best interest of humanity, the Worlds and their Cosmos - even Universe itself, I think!
Kisito
Jedi Council Member
Laura, I read almost all your books, sometimes I cried, sometimes I laughed and I learned a lot. I respect very much your work and I will continue to study it. But it is rare for me to be sure that you are mistaken, because the one who is in my head it's me and not you. You may think I lie, and this is your juguement. So I will not offend me but smile, because the one I admire for his work, may err, and it flatters my ego malheureusent. Thomas Hobbes said, "Man is a wolf to man." Maybe I am, but then most men are wolves. I can hide when I'm afraid that one attacks me, but I'm not Machiavellian. I like going at my ideas and my thoughts, and I do not stop to "a priori". I try never to lie to me, if I dare not say a thing to a person, I do not tell him. But in general I'm not hiding, let alone behind a monton, I did not want to be sacrificed. Kizito, is my real name. And I think being a good person and teach the honest things to my son. However it is interesting to observe how you can see me. Although I have the impression that you do not actually believe what you told me.Laura said:
Buddy
The Living Force
Kisito, no one has said or implied Laura is perfect, but from my 3rd party perspective, it looks to me like it's YOUR self-importance hurting YOU.
Let me try and clarify something:
I get your 'game' analogy. There is a 'game' here in the sense that what is being measured is 'bounded' like a field of play. There is an overall objective, along with assumptions as to what a 'score' is to mean, etc., etc. I also understand what you're saying about 'jealousy and the role of adultery' (and that I understand you does not imply agreement or disagreement).
What I think you are not 'grokking' from Dakota's comments is that you may be confusing the idea of "taking it too seriously" with a sincere effort to use this test for what it's worth as data points in her Work. Dakota even says that in her own words. It's significant to Dakota and that's what matters. The exact significance to her is spelled out in one of her replies you've bundled in your quote.
You've already read Dakota's comments with "she is wrong" in mind. Can you now re-read the conversation with "Dakota is right" in mind to see if you can find new insight? IMO, that's a useful exercise 'across the board.'
Let me try and clarify something:
I get your 'game' analogy. There is a 'game' here in the sense that what is being measured is 'bounded' like a field of play. There is an overall objective, along with assumptions as to what a 'score' is to mean, etc., etc. I also understand what you're saying about 'jealousy and the role of adultery' (and that I understand you does not imply agreement or disagreement).
What I think you are not 'grokking' from Dakota's comments is that you may be confusing the idea of "taking it too seriously" with a sincere effort to use this test for what it's worth as data points in her Work. Dakota even says that in her own words. It's significant to Dakota and that's what matters. The exact significance to her is spelled out in one of her replies you've bundled in your quote.
You've already read Dakota's comments with "she is wrong" in mind. Can you now re-read the conversation with "Dakota is right" in mind to see if you can find new insight? IMO, that's a useful exercise 'across the board.'
Kisito
Jedi Council Member
Hello buddy, I thought as I said that I agreed with Dakota, it seems that it is he / she not agree with me. And of course I be not excluded susceptibility, but I try to detach myself. Sometimes we think that others just destroy, but he tries to help. There must also be some misunderstandings due to Google translator. But I'm so in union and not division. We are not yet united, that is why the ideas diverged and the sensibilities meet. But on my comments, I've never deliberately hurt someone. We often spoke of mirror, I think that is the mirror reflection for everyone.Buddy said:
obyvatel
The Living Force
[quote author=Kisito]
It's fun, I feel that many of us take for fully credible, and put a lot of importance in this test. It's more like a game. Also it depends on how we understand the issues. I think it would be interesting to ask a question that seems essential to me: "If you are the victim of adultery, would you be jealous / envious? Answer: rarely, neutral, never." For me, being "victim of adultery" reveals much our narcissistic behavior. For often in the relationship of the couple, it is our pleasure and our happiness is about. To please our husbands and our wives, we maintain the joy of OUR couple. That is our individual happiness. Because it is rare that a person wants to enjoy her ex. Tell me how envious / jealous you are, and I'll tell you what / how you're narcissistic. As for me most of us are narcissistic, I consider myself narcissistic. Knowledge is to be on the right path. But to believe the test tells you that "you are probably not narcissistic" is perhaps demonstrate narcissism.
[/quote]
I found it odd that adultery would be brought into this thread and tied to narcissism. It is just off.
Then in response to Laura's analysis of the questions and answers,
[quote author=Kisito]
I agree with all the answers. I think most members agree. But how do you explain the many high scores forum members? Have they too pondered, thinking that there was a trap? And there is no shortage do you think of the most relevant issues, such jealousy?
[/quote]
What trap? Trying to drag "jealousy" (related to "reaction to adultery"?) into the picture?
[quote author=Kisito]
I tried to emphasize that the results were not significant. Because it looked like a game. And in a game, we always want to win, but it can be fun. And it makes me smile to see that some identify with the results. The test is not a gospel, but it should make us think.
[/quote]
Kisito's responses are making me think that he is derailing the thread.
[quote author=Kisito]
Laura, I read almost all your books, sometimes I cried, sometimes I laughed and I learned a lot. I respect very much your work and I will continue to study it. But it is rare for me to be sure that you are mistaken, because the one who is in my head it's me and not you. You may think I lie, and this is your juguement. So I will not offend me but smile, because the one I admire for his work, may err, and it flatters my ego malheureusent. Thomas Hobbes said, "Man is a wolf to man." Maybe I am, but then most men are wolves. I can hide when I'm afraid that one attacks me, but I'm not Machiavellian. I like going at my ideas and my thoughts, and I do not stop to "a priori". I try never to lie to me, if I dare not say a thing to a person, I do not tell him. But in general I'm not hiding, let alone behind a monton, I did not want to be sacrificed. Kizito, is my real name. And I think being a good person and teach the honest things to my son. However it is interesting to observe how you can see me. Although I have the impression that you do not actually believe what you told me.
[/quote]
Sounds quite sanctimonious. Reminded me of this post of Kisito in a thread where he was arguing that rape brings humility and felt "misunderstood" by others.
It's fun, I feel that many of us take for fully credible, and put a lot of importance in this test. It's more like a game. Also it depends on how we understand the issues. I think it would be interesting to ask a question that seems essential to me: "If you are the victim of adultery, would you be jealous / envious? Answer: rarely, neutral, never." For me, being "victim of adultery" reveals much our narcissistic behavior. For often in the relationship of the couple, it is our pleasure and our happiness is about. To please our husbands and our wives, we maintain the joy of OUR couple. That is our individual happiness. Because it is rare that a person wants to enjoy her ex. Tell me how envious / jealous you are, and I'll tell you what / how you're narcissistic. As for me most of us are narcissistic, I consider myself narcissistic. Knowledge is to be on the right path. But to believe the test tells you that "you are probably not narcissistic" is perhaps demonstrate narcissism.
[/quote]
I found it odd that adultery would be brought into this thread and tied to narcissism. It is just off.
Then in response to Laura's analysis of the questions and answers,
[quote author=Kisito]
I agree with all the answers. I think most members agree. But how do you explain the many high scores forum members? Have they too pondered, thinking that there was a trap? And there is no shortage do you think of the most relevant issues, such jealousy?
[/quote]
What trap? Trying to drag "jealousy" (related to "reaction to adultery"?) into the picture?
[quote author=Kisito]
I tried to emphasize that the results were not significant. Because it looked like a game. And in a game, we always want to win, but it can be fun. And it makes me smile to see that some identify with the results. The test is not a gospel, but it should make us think.
[/quote]
Kisito's responses are making me think that he is derailing the thread.
[quote author=Kisito]
Laura, I read almost all your books, sometimes I cried, sometimes I laughed and I learned a lot. I respect very much your work and I will continue to study it. But it is rare for me to be sure that you are mistaken, because the one who is in my head it's me and not you. You may think I lie, and this is your juguement. So I will not offend me but smile, because the one I admire for his work, may err, and it flatters my ego malheureusent. Thomas Hobbes said, "Man is a wolf to man." Maybe I am, but then most men are wolves. I can hide when I'm afraid that one attacks me, but I'm not Machiavellian. I like going at my ideas and my thoughts, and I do not stop to "a priori". I try never to lie to me, if I dare not say a thing to a person, I do not tell him. But in general I'm not hiding, let alone behind a monton, I did not want to be sacrificed. Kizito, is my real name. And I think being a good person and teach the honest things to my son. However it is interesting to observe how you can see me. Although I have the impression that you do not actually believe what you told me.
[/quote]
Sounds quite sanctimonious. Reminded me of this post of Kisito in a thread where he was arguing that rape brings humility and felt "misunderstood" by others.
Buddy
The Living Force
obyvatel said:
Kisito appears to justify some of his remarks in terms that wake up someone's pain that he didn't cause. Also I don't see where he's acknowledging any responsibility for what he says that supposedly does this 'waking up.' That might explain why there are no further comments by Kisito on that thread.
----------------
Kisito said:
Laura and others provide plenty of examples of how 'to advance an idea or discuss a topic' while also paying attention to sensitivities, so for someone who has supposedly read so much of her works, that argument doesn't hold water on here, I think.
Kisito, I, for one, would appreciate it if you would refrain from posting in a thread just for the purpose of "waking up someone's pain." If you have things you want to discuss and there seems nowhere else to do it, you can start your own thread, or use the foreign language board to ask for help in translating your thoughts if you think English is the problem.
Thank you.
I got 30/50.
I did realize while reading the questions that if you tend to zone out into your own work to the exclusion of others, this could be a narcissistic trait, just the feeling that you are better off with yourself than sharing with others.
Perhaps if one works with other pathological people, keeping to oneself can be an attempt at self-preservation, but at the same time, learning to work with these people within safe boundaries might be the less narcissistic trait?
I did realize while reading the questions that if you tend to zone out into your own work to the exclusion of others, this could be a narcissistic trait, just the feeling that you are better off with yourself than sharing with others.
Perhaps if one works with other pathological people, keeping to oneself can be an attempt at self-preservation, but at the same time, learning to work with these people within safe boundaries might be the less narcissistic trait?
35/50, You're kind of a covert narcissist.
There are two things to note for me: I try to notice those traits in myself, and when they are brought up in a question I may 'weigh' the answer. On the other hand, even still I do not doubt that most narcissistic reactions pass by me and I would rather forget them, while I am answering such a quiz (and I do know how to score myself lower).
So there is a range and it might be high. Regardless of that, it could be useful to try and notice what I am feeling a little deeper inside in each interaction.
There are two things to note for me: I try to notice those traits in myself, and when they are brought up in a question I may 'weigh' the answer. On the other hand, even still I do not doubt that most narcissistic reactions pass by me and I would rather forget them, while I am answering such a quiz (and I do know how to score myself lower).
So there is a range and it might be high. Regardless of that, it could be useful to try and notice what I am feeling a little deeper inside in each interaction.