Artificial Intelligence News & Discussion

[Joe]

In a recent session, this question was asked and answer given:

Q: (Toronto Group) Is Elon Musk neurolink part of planned AI?

A: No. Musk sees it as human defense. But he is wrong because it can be easily hacked.

I was wondering, what threat does Musk see in AI that he thinks a brain implant in humans would be necessary to protect against it? I mean, it implies that he thinks future AI would in some way be able to gain access to our brains/thoughts. If so, do any of you have any ideas/knowledge about how that would work?

 

[Windmill knight]

I was wondering, what threat does Musk see in AI that he thinks a brain implant in humans would be necessary to protect against it? I mean, it implies that he thinks future AI would in some way be able to gain access to our brains/thoughts. If so, do any of you have any ideas/knowledge about how that would work?

I initially understood Musk's idea as meaning that humans would be more able to compete with smarter machines if humans had brain 'machine add-ons' and therefore became also smarter. I found this article with a summary of what he thinks about that and it seems that it's not just about being smarter, but also that if we merge with machines we won't be threatend by them because we will be in the same team in a sort of symbiosis. Sounds like the Star Trek's Borg! What could go wrong? In that case, in light of what you say, the very thing that Musk thinks would protect us from the machines would also give the machines direct access to our brains and thoughts.

 

[heinrich]

I initially understood Musk's idea as meaning that humans would be more able to compete with smarter machines if humans had brain 'machine add-ons' and therefore became also smarter. I found this article with a summary of what he thinks about that and it seems that it's not just about being smarter, but also that if we merge with machines we won't be threatend by them because we will be in the same team in a sort of symbiosis. Sounds like the Star Trek's Borg! What could go wrong? In that case, in light of what you say, the very thing that Musk thinks would protect us from the machines would also give the machines direct access to our brains and thoughts.

machines process information. humans process emotions. what is more valuable to you???

 

[KJS]

I was wondering, what threat does Musk see in AI that he thinks a brain implant in humans would be necessary to protect against it? I mean, it implies that he thinks future AI would in some way be able to gain access to our brains/thoughts. If so, do any of you have any ideas/knowledge about how that would work?

initially understood Musk's idea as meaning that humans would be more able to compete with smarter machines if humans had brain 'machine add-ons' and therefore became also smarter.

I've also understood his intention that way: to embed human etics in the AI via implanted "savants". Like with Twitter, he bought it, took control, saw and modified the source code, and thinks that he will bring free speech back by using his judgment. The same wishful thinking as with self-driving cars.

As I understand how this could work, the implant samples electrical current at the synapse, feeds discrete values to the artificial network, and then, after performing some additional post-processing of the numerical result, feeds it back and converts it to an analog signal received by the synapse. The current transformer architecture is good at (mainly self-supervised) learning anything, even multiple modalities of data. So even if, and that's a big wishful thinking at this stage, AI at some point will somehow (it lacks creativity other than "hallucinations") be able to train new AIs and yield exponentially better models, "savants" will also be up to date with the latest tech.

But I wonder how he can be this naive with regard to current technology's security. The AI model needs to be run somewhere. Is the data center secure enough? It sure has armed personnel, but is it running on Israeli or Chinese processors? Are there any other backdoors like the "secret" Intel Management Console on those? How is the wireless connection of an implant not hackable even if cell-phone LTE modems have vulnerabilities disclosed almost monthly? I can go on and on. The point is that his implants will be hackable, not necessarily by the AI. Even Ted Chaing's novel "Understand" scenario could materialize at some point:

Spoiler

The story follows a man who is given an experimental drug to heal brain damage caused by anoxia after he nearly drowns. The drug regenerates his damaged neurons and has the unintended side effect of exponentially improving his intellect and motor skills. As he gets smarter and smarter, he is pursued by several government agencies. Eventually he receives a message from another super-intelligent test subject and enters into conflict with him.

Understand (story) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Ellipse]

In a recent session, this question was asked and answer given:



I was wondering, what threat does Musk see in AI that he thinks a brain implant in humans would be necessary to protect against it? I mean, it implies that he thinks future AI would in some way be able to gain access to our brains/thoughts. If so, do any of you have any ideas/knowledge about how that would work?

If you are referencing to the technical part, there's this video posted by Pierre and the resume by myself on the next post:

Artificial Intelligence News & Discussion

Very interesting video about AI made by Scottie. I'm surprised it has not been posted yet:

cassiopaea.org

 

[Joe]

but also that if we merge with machines

What does "merge with machines" mean, from a practical pov?

 

[Metrist]

Humans are unlike the animal kingdom. We rely on external sources to withstand the challenges of our environment. We need clothing to protect us, we have tools to assist us. Naked, we are helpless and doomed. So, by our nature we are symbiotic.
So, AI is not a new thing, it has just reached a threshold. And so AI would bring organizational ability, but with AIs ascension came humanitys decline - in symbiotic fashion.
And so fear arises out of this dependency - a dependency that has always been a part of our existence - but beyond our scope to fathom - or better left to automated processes. So the fear being that we - not only have we replaced our labors with automation - we replaced our thoughts with computer programming.
But it isn't that computers think for us, they really only provide for organization. We are the ones not thinking, organization is mistook for intelligence. And so we - like bureaucrats - are behaving like AI ourselves.
AIs foundation is humanitys desire to replace itself - and it is not intelligence, but organization. And in this process, we meld into the programming, as we have a natural dependency on things outside ourselves.

Is AI a scapegoat? I think in a lot of instances, yes. Data companies no longer value privacy invasion, and have moved on to profiling. Rather than knowing your SSN, or phone number, account numbers, ect. they want to profile your character.

Chatbots, gaming, social media, all serve to gauge individuals, groups, in an attempt at control, but it is just a misuse of effort where virtual space is concerned, because virtual space is boundless and power plays play out in futility - look at the lunacy of the world since computers came along.

So, I think AI is a term that means technology, and 'the little people' are supposed to fear it, deny it, blame it and think it is the core of their suspicions, when it is: 1. A aspect of their nature and 2. A scapegoat and 3. A virtual playing field where power plays are boundless and futile.

 

[KJS]

What does "merge with machines" mean, from a practical pov?

The current solution doesn't look very fashionable:




That poor pig that Musk presented was hooked via Bluetooth. I guess that after installation, you'd need to learn how to use this thing and also need calibration. Maybe with some layer of artificial neural network specially tuned for you (to normalize output)? But yeah, it's gross... All day battery life

Elon Musk shows Neuralink brain implant working in a pig

"It's like a Fitbit in your skull," the SpaceX and Tesla leader says of Neuralink's brain-computer link technology.

www.cnet.com

 

[Windmill knight]

What does "merge with machines" mean, from a practical pov?

I don't know - I can only speculate that it's an advanced version of what KS posted above, where you'd have a chip or several in your brain connected via wifi or bluetooth to a server or to the internet directly. Maybe Musk himself doesn't know what that 'merging' would be like. But it sounds bad.

 

[Luis Miguel]

I was wondering, what threat does Musk see in AI that he thinks a brain implant in humans would be necessary to protect against it? I mean, it implies that he thinks future AI would in some way be able to gain access to our brains/thoughts. If so, do any of you have any ideas/knowledge about how that would work?

Interesting. Research groups are working with AIs that can "read" your thoughts:

Scientists can now read your mind; AI turns people’s thoughts into images

Artificial intelligence can create images based on text prompts, but scientists unveiled a gallery of pictures the technology produces by reading brain activity. The new AI-powered algorithm reconstructed around 1,000 images, including a teddy bear and an airplane, from these brain scans with 80 percent accuracy.

As neuroscientists struggle to demystify how the human brain converts what our eyes see into mental images, artificial intelligence (AI) has been getting better at mimicking that feat. A recent study, scheduled to be presented at an upcoming computer vision conference, demonstrates that AI can read brain scans and re-create largely realistic versions of images a person has seen. As this technology develops, researchers say, it could have numerous applications, from exploring how various animal species perceive the world to perhaps one day recording human dreams and aiding communication in people with paralysis.

Scientists used AI to read people's brain scans and recreate a whole story only from their brainwaves, per a study published Monday. Participants were asked to listen, watch, or imagine a story while sitting in a brain-scanning machine called an fMRI, per the study from experts at the University of Texas, Austin.

This kind of technology requires some kind of device or implant. Imagine if a similar implant or wearable device were to be popularised and sold on a mass scale. A gadget that could record your thoughts, memories, and dreams (among other features) while secretly AIs store all that info and create profiles for each user for nefarious ends. And if it's developed with some kind of feedback to the brain, it could also be used to induce certain brainwave patterns in its users.

One step further, perhaps there's a wireless technology that could do the same as the implants.

Which makes me think of this:

FEBRUARY 22, 1997

A: We told you that “HAARP” was being designated for capturing and modulating electromagnetic fields for the purpose of total control of brainwave patterns in order to establish a system of complete “order on the surface of the planet” in either 3rd or 4th density.
Q: (L) Is HAARP in operation at the present time?
A: Yes, in its early stages.

On another note, I think we are reaching a point where some people are already "merging with machines" without implants. They are increasingly delegating their basic thinking and creativity to AIs. So AIs will do their thinking for them, and they will become robots... if they are not already:

AUGUST 6, 2005

Q: (H) What percentage of the US population actually thinks at all?
A: 12% if you define it rigidly. (group amazement at this figure)
A: What do you expect with HAARP turning brains to tapioca?
(Perceval) So it’s a Zombie nation then?
A: You took the words right out of 6th density.

 

[Kosma]

They are increasingly delegating their basic thinking and creativity to AIs. So AIs will do their thinking for them, and they will become robots... if they are not already:

I think its crux of matter. "AI" could be more the term that is supposed to generate in people impression of communing with superior power rather then representing a real independent intelligence. As it was already posted in this thread it's good tool to connect with general data gathering instruments. It could be also used with conjunction of dark psychology to damage/manipulate psyche. Even without AI interface, I could easily imagine gaslighting in the environment of PC OS or smartphone OS (changing controls, elements, moving/deleting data etc). Just my 2 cents

 

[KJS]

I don't know - I can only speculate that it's an advanced version of what KS posted above, where you'd have a chip or several in your brain connected via wifi or bluetooth to a server or to the internet directly. Maybe Musk himself doesn't know what that 'merging' would be like. But it sounds bad.

Judging from the Neuralink pictures that I've posted, it seems that they will be trying to tap into the left parietal lobe; somewhere between motor functioning and sensory area. Maybe they choose this area because it's active during more abstract tasks:

Hypercalculia is "a specific developmental condition in which the ability to perform mathematical calculations is significantly superior to general learning ability and to school attainment in maths."[1] A 2002 neuroimaging study of a child with hypercalculia suggested greater brain volume in the right temporal lobe. Serial SPECT scans revealed hyperperfusion over right parietal areas during performance of arithmetic tasks.[2]

I'm wondering how the feedback from the implant will manifest then, maybe as some form of synesthesia that one needs to get used to?

 

[Joe]

On another note, I think we are reaching a point where some people are already "merging with machines" without implants. They are increasingly delegating their basic thinking and creativity to AIs. So AIs will do their thinking for them, and they will become robots... if they are not already:

Yeah, that's what I was wondering. Does "merging with machines" mean that AI would somehow have direct access to our thoughts? If so, how? I mean, say I'm standing in a field in the countryside. Without some kind of implant that acts as an transmitter and receiver for some AI computer, how are my thoughts going to be read? Or is it a case of there being some kind of "field" generated planet-wide where the electrical impulses of every single brain on the planet can be easily read/influenced without any actual hardware implant?

Or it more a case of people becoming so dependent on AI that people more or less delegate their thinking to AI and therefore "merge" with machines in a more symbolic/passive/indirect way.

The only way I can see Musk's neuralink being needed as protection would be if there was a way for AI to read and possibly influence anyone's thoughts (and therefore actions) without any implant. Otherwise, getting a Musk device implanted for some "human augmentation" reason would seem to simply facilitate the control of AI over human beings by turning them into AI-compatible transmitters/receivers via a physical implant.

 

[Natus Videre]

This discussion reminds of a novel called "Feed" that I've read a while ago which scared me to say the least. It portrays a reality where humans have "merged" with machines, and the abuse of power that comes with it.

Feed (Anderson novel) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Feed (2002) is a cyberpunk, dystopian, young-adult novel by M. T. Anderson, focusing on issues such as corporate power, consumerism, information technology, data mining, and environmental decay, with a sometimes sardonic, sometimes somber tone. From the first-person perspective of a teenaged boy, the book takes place in a near-futuristic American culture completely dominated by advertising and corporate exploitation, corresponding to the enormous popularity of internetworking brain implants called feeds.

The novel portrays a near-future in which the feednet, a huge computer network (apparently an advanced form of the Internet), is directly connected to the brains of about 73% of American citizens by an implanted device called a feed. The feed allows people: to mentally access vast digital databases (individually called "sites"); to experience shareable virtual-reality phenomena (including entertainment programs, music, and even others' memories); to continually interact with intrusive corporations in a personal preference-based way; and to communicate telepathically on closed channels with others who also have feeds (a feature called m-chatting).

In the book's setting, the natural environment is deteriorating, with natural clouds having been replaced by trademarked Clouds™, and many parents have their children custom-designed. The corporations responsible for the feed have immense power and even run the school system, which is now known as School™. Throughout the book, corporations appear to hold the true power in the United States, leading to the destruction of the environment and leaving the president virtually helpless as the Global Alliance, a coalition of other countries, begins contemplating war with the U.S.

 

[Yas]

The only way I can see Musk's neuralink being needed as protection would be if there was a way for AI to read and possibly influence anyone's thoughts (and therefore actions) without any implant. Otherwise, getting a Musk device implanted for some "human augmentation" reason would seem to simply facilitate the control of AI over human beings by turning them into AI-compatible transmitters/receivers via a physical implant.

My comment will be pure speculation. It could be, as with EM technology of some sort, that AI and the PTB could have a way to influence people in a field-like manner, for example, by causing secretion of neurotransmitters, hormones, etc... Of course, we know that that's not ALL of what the human mind is, but we also know that this type of influence can have an impact in behaviour, thinking, feeling, etc.

So, my idea is that perhaps Musk isn't completely aware of the above and of other aspects of the mind and he thinks that by giving humans a way to interface with AI via an implant in their brains he can give humans a better chance, BUT, if AI or the PTB have access to different EM technologies, with something like Neuralink they might be able to easily 'hack' the device, maybe making it even easier to influence people with EM + implant. Still by affecting them only biologically, yes, but that can be quite an influence anyway.

I also think that in the part of Musk, part of the problem is that he seems to have a more or less materialistic view of what the mind is, and that makes him think that we can actually merge with a machine in a reductionistic manner. So perhaps the 'merging' needs people to be a certain way in order for it to be more effective in that reductionist manner.

Or it more a case of people becoming so dependent on AI that people more or less delegate their thinking to AI and therefore "merge" with machines in a more symbolic/passive/indirect way.

So I think that the above could be part of it too, by making people more machine-like and machine-dependent, it becomes easier to manipulate them in ways similar to my speculation above or other ways.