Ascorbic acid (vitamin C)

[Brewer]

I gave some to a friend who has suffered from sinus trouble for decades, her nose runs constantly and antibiotics provided only temporary relief. It cleared in 4 days! She stopped taking it the problem returned in 5 days, resumed it, cleared up and no further problems, takes one gram per day without side effects. She takes it in powdered form and it's a brand that I can't find online but it's available at Priceline Chemists in Australia for less than $20.

Here's this particular brand if you live in the prison hulk called Australia. I take it regularly, very acidic but mixed with a decent amount of water it goes down well.

I was on an extended fishing trip a couple of weeks ago. Punctured my fingers with dirty hooks, scratched and cut myself clambering over rocks and walking through the spiky Aussie bush. Got splinters too, whereas before these were taking longer to heal on my middle aged body, they all healed very quickly, seems to work.

I also haven't had any colds, flu or the dreaded plague this season, first time in years this has happened, usually get one cold.

Take care!

 

[Brewer]

Here's this particular brand if you live in the prison hulk called Australia. I take it regularly, very acidic but mixed with a decent amount of water it goes down well.

I was on an extended fishing trip a couple of weeks ago. Punctured my fingers with dirty hooks, scratched and cut myself clambering over rocks and walking through the spiky Aussie bush. Got splinters too, whereas before these were taking longer to heal on my middle aged body, they all healed very quickly, seems to work.

I also haven't had any colds, flu or the dreaded plague this season, first time in years this has happened, usually get one cold.

Take care!

Been taking my supplements since November 2019, no colds or flu. Recently a common cold has been circulating around my town. I was exposed normally I would have got it with all the typical symptoms plus a nasty post infection rhinitis. This time it was a barely noticeable sore throat and the occasional cough. Lasted about 2 weeks, all gone, seems to work.

 

[Cass_1982]

Been taking my supplements since November 2019, no colds or flu. Recently a common cold has been circulating around my town. I was exposed normally I would have got it with all the typical symptoms plus a nasty post infection rhinitis. This time it was a barely noticeable sore throat and the occasional cough. Lasted about 2 weeks, all gone, seems to work.

Can we take vitamine C daily all year long? Or do you take it usually depending on the season? Further, some say 1g per day is good but as I see some brands provide more than that. Do you guys prefer vitamine C in tablets or powder? Thanks!

 

[Ryan]

Can we take vitamine C daily all year long? Or do you take it usually depending on the season? Further, some say 1g per day is good but as I see some brands provide more than that. Do you guys prefer vitamine C in tablets or powder? Thanks!

I usually have about 1-2g of liposomal Vitamin C per day, although I'm planning on getting some ascorbic acid powder so I can up the dosage much more if needed without depleting my liposomal Vitamin C stocks (Lipo C is much more expensive). You can generally take it all year round, although it's recommended to increase the dose significantly at the first signs of any illness.

Although there's a LOT of information in this thread, you can get a good overview if you read the first 8-10 pages. Good luck!

 

[Cass_1982]

I usually have about 1-2g of liposomal Vitamin C per day, although I'm planning on getting some ascorbic acid powder so I can up the dosage much more if needed without depleting my liposomal Vitamin C stocks (Lipo C is much more expensive). You can generally take it all year round, although it's recommended to increase the dose significantly at the first signs of any illness.

Although there's a LOT of information in this thread, you can get a good overview if you read the first 8-10 pages. Good luck!

Thanks Ryan!

 

[Keyhole]

For those who use vitamin C in more than 3-4 grams per day, here is an interesting article by Chris Masterjohn on his substack which highlights the potential importance of also using glutathione-supportive therapies.

In short - very high doses of vitamin C consistently can cause some cell damage by taxing glutathione status and increasing reactivity of nitric oxide. This can be mitigated by simultaneously supporting glutathione status.

While I was writing my last post, Protecting Against Spike Protein Toxicity With Sulfur, Selenium, and Sunlight, I came across this paper from 2002 showing that, in dopamine-responsive brain cells, vitamin C worsens nitric oxide toxicity, while glutathione and N-acetyl-cysteine protect against it.

The context of this study was an investigation into the damage of dopamine-responsive brain cells in the context of Parkinson’s.

However, I believe this paper demonstrates a much more broadly applicable general principle: high doses of vitamin C need to be properly balanced with glutathione support in any context where nitric oxide toxicity might be important. That includes COVID and vaccine-induced spike protein toxicity, and it should be broadly applicable to inflammation in general.

I am working on a much more extensive report tying this together with vitamin C research in the context of COVID, general immunity, and cancer. I will likely release this report at the end of next week.

For now, I wanted to leave you with my preliminary take-home points so that you can take them under consideration now if you use high-dose vitamin C for any purpose.

This post will remain available until the final report is out next week. At that point, it will be integrated into the final report.

Since the final report will be contributing to my upcoming Vaccine Guide as well as version 8 of the COVID Guide (the last update I will make before returning full-time to finishing my book), it will be available to everyone for the first 48 hours and become paid-only afterwards.

In Figure 7A, we see that in these dopamine-responsive brain cells, a nitric oxide donor (2nd column) increased the percent of cells that were dying compared to the control (1st column), and that neither 200 nor 400 micromoles per liter (μmol/L) of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) had any effect alone (columns 3 and 4), but actually increased cell death in response to the nitric oxide donors (columns 5 and 6).




The asterisks indicate a statistically significant difference from the control, while the crosses indicate a statistically significant difference from the nitric oxide donor alone. So, we see that only 400 μmol/L produced a statistically significant worsening. However, the mean cell death with 200 μmol/L is about 15% higher on a relative basis than with the nitric oxide donor alone. This suggests to me that the effect is beginning slightly under 200 μmol/L but becomes more meaningful after 400 μmol/L.

As seen in Figure 4A, by contrast, 600 μmol/L of either glutathione or N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC) completely abolishes the increase in cell death:


Overall, these results are consistent with the following explanation:

• As explained in my last post, glutathione prevents excessive S-nitrosylation of proteins, and a deficiency of glutathione can lead nitric oxide to engage in nitration of proteins. S-nitrosylation is a regulatory modification that occurs under inflammatory stress, and nitration may play a regulatory role but is often associated with irreversible damage to proteins.
• Thus, glutathione shifts nitric oxide away from inflammatory and damaging roles, and toward useful roles like vasodilation.
• Antioxidant protection occurs in a very defined order: vitamin E is recycled by vitamin C, vitamin C is recycled by glutathione, glutathione is recycled using energy from the pentose phosphate pathway using derivatives of niacin and riboflavin. This is a one-way street. Glutathione recycles vitamin C, but vitamin C does not recycle glutathione.
• To say “glutathione recycles vitamin C” means that vitamin C oxidizes glutathione. If vitamin C oxidizes glutathione faster than glutathione can be recycled itself, vitamin C will tax the glutathione pool and thereby render nitric oxide more likely to hurt than help.

Overall, this paper suggests that vitamin C may begin to meaningfully tax the glutathione pool at concentrations close to 200 μmol/L and begins doing so in earnest by the time we arrive at concentrations of 400 μmol/L.

In my final report, I will integrate this with data on oral and intravenous vitamin C in humans. Suffice it to say for now that my review of that literature so far does not contradict using 200-400 μmol/L as benchmark plasma levels where we need to start getting concerned about balancing vitamin C with glutathione.

This paper provides a basis for translating this into oral and intravenous doses of vitamin C:

• A vitamin C-rich diet containing 300 mg per day will generally raise plasma levels to 70-85 μmol/L.
• Single doses of 1-2 grams will raise plasma levels to 150 to just shy of 200 μmol/L at the 5-hour mark and keep them around or above 100 μmol/L for about ten hours.
• Dosing 2.5 or 3 grams every four hours will keep plasma levels sustainably at or above 200 μmol/L.
• Intravenous doses of 3 or more grams consistently reach plasma levels well above 1000 μmol/L and 100 grams intravenously reaches over 15,000 μmol/L. Doses at or below 10 grams keep plasma levels elevated for about two hours, whereas 50 or 100 grams keep them elevated for 4-6 hours.

This study did not look at time points earlier than 5 hours, so it might be underestimating the peak concentrations reached.

The study also did not look at repeat dosing with less than 2.5 grams, so it is quite possible that repeated dosing with 1 gram would also keep plasma levels at or above 200 μmol/L.

In the absence of a specific reason to use high-dose vitamin C, I think it is best to shoot for up to 400 milligrams per day of food-based vitamin C in at least two divided doses. Two studies (here and here) have shown that long-term consumption of 200 milligrams twice a day provides plasma and intracellular levels of vitamin C in the most beneficial range, with plasma levels in the high but sub-100 μmol/L range. They also show that this dose is well below the dose (1000 mg/d) required to raise urinary levels of urate and oxalate.

Here is the critical preliminary finding I wish to highlight now:

When using repeated doses of one gram or more, or long-term use of greater than 400 milligrams per day, for any concern relating to nitric oxide toxicity that includes anything inflammatory, it is critical to follow best practice for maintaining good glutathione status.

For your convenience, I have copied below the glutathione-specific recommendations from the last post:

• Make sure to consume at least one gram of protein per kilogram of bodyweight or at least a half gram of protein per pound of bodyweight.
• Consider supplementing with 20-40 grams of whey protein, with anywhere from 500 mg each to 10 grams each of N-acetylcysteine and glycine, or anywhere from 500 mg to 5 grams of glutathione. My personal preference is for whey protein, supported by additional glutathione. I would stay toward 1500 mg of NAC or glutathione without a compelling reason to use higher doses, but consider what I’ve written here the top of the range to experiment with.
• Keep diabetes well treated, and reverse type 2 diabetes if possible, and reverse any signs of emerging pre-diabetes.
• Keep any thyroid, adrenal, or other metabolic disorder well treated.
• Eat a diet that keeps postprandial blood sugar under 140 mg/dL (7.7 mmol/L). Within that constraint, eat freely of whole fruit and unrefined sweeteners, but use moderation and steer very far away from 42% of Calories coming from simple sugar. Within these constraints, any increase in carbohydrate is likely to improve glutathione status by increasing insulin.
• Don’t start a new milk habit. If you use dairy products habitually, however, no need to stop.
• Manage your vitamin and mineral status properly, with special emphasis on selenium, thiamin, niacin, riboflavin, iron, magnesium, and calcium. =

When vitamin C is 400 milligrams per day or less, spread throughout meals or at least spread across two divided doses, it is unlikely to tax the glutathione pool. In fact, avoiding suboptimal vitamin C status is actually good for the glutathione pool because it lowers the burden glutathione has to fulfill to keep it recycled.

It is still a good thing to support glutathione status.

However, it is at doses above this that spike plasma levels to 200 μmol/L or greater where robustly supporting glutathione status might make or break whether vitamin C helps or hurts. At minimum, robustly supporting glutathione status will remove one of the concerns about vitamin C and shift it more clearly to the point of net benefit.

 

[hlat]

For those who use vitamin C in more than 3-4 grams per day, here is an interesting article by Chris Masterjohn on his substack which highlights the potential importance of also using glutathione-supportive therapies.

In short - very high doses of vitamin C consistently can cause some cell damage by taxing glutathione status and increasing reactivity of nitric oxide. This can be mitigated by simultaneously supporting glutathione status.

Good to know NAC N-acetyl-cysteine can be used too instead of glutathione.

 

[Eboard10]

In short - very high doses of vitamin C consistently can cause some cell damage by taxing glutathione status and increasing reactivity of nitric oxide. This can be mitigated by simultaneously supporting glutathione status

Thanks for the information Keyhole. When I caught covid last year, I finished a 250ml bottle of liposomal vitamin C in 6 days, the time it took for all my symptoms to cease to then revert back to taking a couple of grams of ascorbic acid. Luckily, I was also taking liposomal glutathione once or twice per day during that period. Hopefully that will have mitigated the (I would assume) substantial cell death from taking all that vitamin C.

 

[dredger]

The story of Allan Smith is a powerful example of why blindly following the advice of the medical profession can be fatal. As you can see in this video, numerous specialists had declared the 56-year old New Zealander beyond hope. Struck with a bad case of the swine flu, doctors put Mr. Smith on life support. After 9 weeks in an induced coma, they said he should be allowed to die.

Allan Smith's sons, all farmers themselves, insisted the hospital try intravenous vitamin C. The specialists refused, saying it wouldn't help. The family eventually brought in a lawyer to get their dying loved one on a vitamin C drip. Smith's infection immediately began to clear. He was taken off life support and brought out of the coma. He eventually walked out of the hospital (10 weeks earlier than rehab expected).

Cured. With nothing more than vitamin C.

Before posting i searched a little bit and found this post of 2011 from @wattsup ... it's a bit fun to respond to such an old post but anyway, it makes the connection. A french website just posted a 15m New Zealand video from 2010 in regard to this story of Alan Smith (or Allan ?). It's in english but was translated to french with sub-titles. A good story to share.

Un fermier se soigne a la vitamine C

https://aubonsens.fr/produit/vitamine-c/

odysee.com

 

[Esprit]

I Found this on Linus Pauling Wikipedia page:

Eugenics​

Pauling supported a limited form of eugenics by suggesting that human carriers of defective genes be given a compulsory visible mark – such as a forehead tattoo – to discourage potential mates with the same defect, in order to reduce the number of babies with diseases such as sickle cell anemia.[127][128]

I was really surprised, it does not seem like it would imply he is down with the all thing but still, kind of a shock to see that there. It would need some validation though.

 

[Persej]

Interesting hypothesis about why human beings cannot make their own vitamin C:

Evolution and survival during major extinctions

As mentioned, mass extinctions have occurred intermittently during the history of life, and adaptation is often critical. One of the major mechanisms of adaptation has been through genetic changes driven by evolution, and more recently, the power of epigenetic modifications has also been appreciated. For humans, there appear to have been two major mutations that occurred during extinctions that appear to involve the fructose pathway, and likely acted by enhancing our fat stores.

Around 65 million years ago, an asteroid fragment (the Chicxulub meteorite) crashed in the Yucatan, causing a massive impact that spewed dust into the air, covering much of the globe and driving temperatures down 7°C [77]. The world became like a nuclear winter, and more than 75 per cent of all life became extinct, including the nonavian dinosaurs (known as the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction) [78]. Early mammals existed during this period, including the earliest primates [79], and one group of primates (the dry nosed haplorrhines) acquired a mutation in vitamin C synthesis (L-gulonolactone oxidase) that rapidly took over the whole family, suggesting a survival benefit [80].

While vitamin C has many functions, one action is to block the effects of fructose to stimulate fat synthesis, likely by blocking the mitochondrial oxidative stress mediated by fructose [23, 81].

Our group has found that fructose induced metabolic syndrome in vitamin C deficient mice can be blocked dose dependently by increasing doses of vitamin C (unpublished data).

This may lead to the interesting question of why vitamin C is present in fruits, given the observation that many species use fruits as a source of fructose to gain fat in preparation for long-distance migration or hibernation. However, the vitamin C content is highest early in the season, and as a fruit ripens, it sweetens (by increasing its fructose content) while its vitamin C content falls [82]. Thus, when animals ingest fruit in the fall, prior to winter, the fruit is maximally sweet with the lowest vitamin C content.

The other major extinction was the ‘Middle Miocene Disruption’ that occurred around 12–14 million years ago in Europe, and led to the extinction of many mammals including the apes that were living in this region [83]. During this time, there was a period of global cooling with a fall in temperatures of approximately 5°C, that resulted in a reduction in fruit, which was primary food for the ancestral apes. In particular, the loss of the fig tree, which can fruit all year long, resulted in periods of starvation during the cooler months [83].

The middle Miocene witnessed the death knell of the uricase gene for the entire ape lineage [84, 85]. Uricase is the enzyme that degrades uric acid, and the uricase gene had been slowly losing its activity via the accumulation of deleterious amino acid replacements during the preceding Oligocene along with its transporter URAT1 [86], but the complete pseudogenization of uricase during the mid-Miocene led to the ultimate loss of enzymatic activity [85]. One of the consequences of the loss of uricase in early hominoids was a greater uric acid response to fructose, which in turn is associated with greater stimulation of fat and glucose production from the same dose of fructose [44, 85].

Thus, the uricase mutation has been hypothesized to act as a survival factor for the European apes during this period of global cooling and food shortage [87]. Indeed, it appears that apes bearing these mutations subsequently migrated to Africa where they became the ancestors of humans and the African great apes, and to southeastern Asia where they became the ancestors of the orangutan [88, 89].

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/joim.12993

 

[LQB]

A recent and very good talk here from Dr Tom Levy (30 min). The central subject is biofilms in the airways, their negative effects on digestion, and how to get rid of these. Other topics are wide ranging and include hydrocortisone + Vit C, metal additives to baby food, and supps for ATP production.

 

[neonix]

When I had covid 3 years ago, I take almost 10 g of ascorbic acid in one day (1 g every few hours).

In winter, I often have problems with muscle pain. I learn that high does of ascorbic acid can remove muscle pain very fast, simmilar like cheap painkillers. I also learn that there is some point when body doesn't want to absorb more ascorbic acid anymore. In this point I create sodium ascorbate in my home and in this way I can take twice the dose.

Sodium ascorbate have one disadvantage. It have a lot of sodium that kidneys have to process. You can use small dose of sodium ascorbate every hour, if you don't want to overload your kidneys.