Astral projection

[Alana]

:)

If you are bored and need stimulation Jsf, i have a suggestion to make: read all articles on SOTT and vote the ones you think contain information other people should be aware of. It's actually pretty interesting what's going on out there. It's comedy/action/drama/mystery/horror/sci-fiction pulp with tiny bits of romance, but is all REALITY. OURS.

Sort of AP in a sense, because you get to be all around the world in just few seconds without physically leaving your space. Cool, huh ;)

 

[Ruth]

I agree with Irini and you also need to be thinking about what really benefits others? Does AP actually benefit others?

Historically (from what little I can see) is it only benefits, the 'Powers That Be' and the Military Industrial Complex. Have you read "Psychic Warrior" by David Morehouse? Its about the CIA's Stargate Program which seems to be about using AP for psychic warfare. No doubt the military would have been all over it like a rash if they thought it would give them an edge! And it maybe somewhat 'old news', now too. This having occured somewhere in the late 80's to early 90's.

Do you know of any other use for AP other than nepharious purposes?

 

[Laura]

Then, of course, there is Gurdjieff's little discourse on "kundalini."

"But there are a thousand things which prevent a man from awakening, which keep him in the power of his dreams. In order to act consciously with the intention of awakening, it is necessary to know the nature of the forces which keep man in a state of sleep.

"First of all it must be realized that the sleep in which man exists is not normal but hypnotic sleep. Man is hypnotized and this hypnotic state is continually maintained and strengthened in him. One would think that there are forces for whom it is useful and profitable to keep man in a hypnotic state and prevent him from seeing the truth and understanding his position.

"There is an Eastern tale which speaks about a very rich magician who had a great many sheep. But at the same time this magician was very mean. He did not want to hire shepherds, nor did he want to erect a fence about the pasture where his sheep were grazing. The sheep consequently often wandered into the forest, fell into ravines, and so on, and above all they ran away, for they knew that the magician wanted their flesh and skins and this they did not like.

"At last the magician found a remedy. He hypnotized his sheep and suggested to them first of all that they were immortal and that no harm was being done to them when they were skinned, that, on the contrary, it would be very good for them and even pleasant; secondly he suggested that the magician was a good master who loved his flock so much that he was ready to do anything in the world for them; and in the third place he suggested to them that if anything at all were going to happen to them it was not going to happen just then, at any rate not that day, and therefore they had no need to think about it. Further the magician suggested to his sheep that they were not sheep at all; to some of them he suggested that they were lions, to others that they were eagles, to others that they were men, and to others that they were magicians.

"And after this all his cares and worries about the sheep came to an end. They never ran away again but quietly awaited the time when the magician would require their flesh and skins.

"This tale is a very good illustration of man's position.

"In so-called 'occult' literature you have probably met with the expression 'Kundalini,' 'the fire of Kundalini,' or the 'serpent of Kundalini.' This expression is often used to designate some kind of strange force which is present in man and which can be awakened. But none of the known theories gives the right explanation of the force of Kundalini. Sometimes it is connected with sex, with sex energy, that is with the idea of the possibility of using sex energy for other purposes. This latter is entirely wrong because Kundalini can be in anything. And above all, Kundalini is not anything desirable or useful for man's development.

It is very curious how these occultists have got hold of the word from somewhere but have completely altered its meaning and from a very dangerous and terrible thing have made something to be hoped for and to be awaited as some blessing.

"In reality Kundalini is the power of imagination, the power of fantasy, which takes the place of a real function.

When a man dreams instead of acting, when his dreams take the place of reality, when a man imagines himself to be an eagle, a lion, or a magician, it is the force of Kundalini acting in him.

Kundalini can act in all centers and with its help all the centers can be satisfied with the imaginary instead of the real.

A sheep which considers itself a lion or a magician lives under the power of Kundalini.

"Kundalini is a force put into men in order to keep them in their present state.

If men could really see their true position and could understand all the horror of it, they would be unable to remain where they are even for one second. They would begin to seek a way out and they would quickly find it, because there is a way out; but men fail to see it simply because they are hypnotized.

Kundalini is the force that keeps them in a hypnotic state.

'To awaken' for man means to be 'dehypnotized.' In this lies the chief difficulty and in this also lies the guarantee of its possibility, for there is no organic reason for sleep and man can awaken.

"Theoretically he can, but practically it is almost impossible because as soon as a man awakens for a moment and opens his eyes, all the forces that caused him to fall asleep begin to act upon him with tenfold energy and he immediately falls asleep again, very often dreaming that he is awake or is awakening.

"There are certain states in ordinary sleep in which a man wants to awaken but cannot. He tells himself that he is awake but, in reality, he continues to sleep—and this can happen several times before he finally awakes. But in ordinary sleep, once he is awake, he is in a different state; in hypnotic sleep the case is otherwise; there are no objective characteristics, at any rate not at the beginning of awakening; a man cannot pinch himself in order to make sure that he is not asleep.

And if, which God forbid, a man has heard anything about objective characteristics, Kundalini at once transforms it all into imagination and dreams.

"Only a man who fully realizes the difficulty of awakening can understand the necessity of long and hard work in order to awake.

 

[Jsf]

Thanks for the little discourse on kundalini. There's a lot of sites and discussions on kundalini, but I never been really attracted particularly by this stuff.

Now if you allow it to me, I would like to discuss about intellectual giftedness ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gifted ). I found the terme "gifted" quite inappropriate because it mainly gives suffering. Actually, it was this topic which partly led me to 4th way material.

The reason is that a major particularity of "gifted children" is to always remain "conscious".
This constant "consciousness" is dreadful, and all the "gifted children" that I know try everything to switch off consciousness, to be "normal", in an "automatic mode" that could be bearable.
There is some books that describes this processus, like "Comment je suis devenu stupide" (How I became stupid) by Martin Page.
Jeanne Siaud-Facchin wrote in "L'enfant surdoué" (pp.39-41, I translate) :

The lucidity

With senses sharp to extreme and always on the lookout, with intellectual habilities highly powerful, gifted with un high understanding of the functionment of things and persons, the gifted child looks at the world with a implacable lucid eye.
- The lucidity brought at the extreme is the source of a constant diffuse anxiety that considerably weak the psychological organisation of theses children.
- The lucidity prevents all kind of "losing grip". (...) The emotionnal watchfulness , associated with a constant analysis of things, is a exhausting processsus for psychic resources.
- The lucidity towards beings (...) is a source of anxiety. The gifted child perceve the suffering, weakness of others. When we are a child, we have to think, on the contrary, that adults are solid, that they can protect us, (...)
On the other hand, the gifted child will have a love, an unlimited passion toward an adult in which he feels a solidity and a hability to overcome his/her weakness. For the gifted child, he/she [this adult] will became an hero.

Some of the "gifted children" find some ways to escape consciousness with music, with computer (captivation reduce consciousness), etc. But more often, it leads to auto-destruction (intellectually and physically), drugs, or in extreme cases, suicide. Since I'm working on this topic, I've searched many ways to cope with this consciouness without destroying it.
I found relatively strange that Gurdjieff followers struggle to be more consciouss and that "gifted children" fight to turn off consciousness.

Could you make some comments ? Since I do research on this subject, I would appreciate it very much.

Last time, anart wrote :

On this forum, you find yourself among a large group of 'advanced for their age children' who have grown to learn how to listen as well as how to use their minds for more than self-calming.

Anart, could you precise "more than self-calming" ? Because in the case of 'advanced for their age children', using the mind does the opposite effect (not self-calming but generating negative emotions).

Edit - it has nothing to do with AP, maybe it's best to create another topic since it doesn't deals with the subject ?

 

[Laura]

Thanks for the little discourse on kundalini. There's a lot of sites and discussions on kundalini, but I never been really attracted particularly by this stuff.

Actually, you are because, to a great extent - if not totally - AP could be the effects of kundalini. I don't think you really grokked the import of the passage I quoted.

Now if you allow it to me, I would like to discuss about intellectual giftedness ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gifted ). I found the terme "gifted" quite inappropriate because it mainly gives suffering. Actually, it was this topic which partly led me to 4th way material.

The reason is that a major particularity of "gifted children" is to always remain "conscious".

Not necessarily. I know gifted people who are totally unconscious of objective reality, focused entirely upon subjectivity.

This constant "consciousness" is dreadful, and all the "gifted children" that I know try everything to switch off consciousness, to be "normal", in an "automatic mode" that could be bearable.
There is some books that describes this processus, like "Comment je suis devenu stupide" (How I became stupid) by Martin Page.
Jeanne Siaud-Facchin wrote in "L'enfant surdoué" (pp.39-41, I translate) :

The lucidity

With senses sharp to extreme and always on the lookout, with intellectual habilities highly powerful, gifted with un high understanding of the functionment of things and persons, the gifted child looks at the world with a implacable lucid eye.
- The lucidity brought at the extreme is the source of a constant diffuse anxiety that considerably weak the psychological organisation of theses children.
- The lucidity prevents all kind of "losing grip". (...) The emotionnal watchfulness , associated with a constant analysis of things, is a exhausting processsus for psychic resources.
- The lucidity towards beings (...) is a source of anxiety. The gifted child perceve the suffering, weakness of others. When we are a child, we have to think, on the contrary, that adults are solid, that they can protect us, (...)
On the other hand, the gifted child will have a love, an unlimited passion toward an adult in which he feels a solidity and a hability to overcome his/her weakness. For the gifted child, he/she [this adult] will became an hero.

Some of the "gifted children" find some ways to escape consciousness with music, with computer (captivation reduce consciousness), etc. But more often, it leads to auto-destruction (intellectually and physically), drugs, or in extreme cases, suicide. Since I'm working on this topic, I've searched many ways to cope with this consciouness without destroying it.
I found relatively strange that Gurdjieff followers struggle to be more consciouss and that "gifted children" fight to turn off consciousness.

Could you make some comments ? Since I do research on this subject, I would appreciate it very much.

Not so strange when you consider that "giftedness" occurs at about the same rate as psychopathy: 6% only psychopaths have a tendency to "rise to the top" and dominate society and culture and to make it very uncomfortable for the gifted.

Let me point to the quote you made in another thread, a passage from Monroe's book where it says:

High-order distilled Loosh radiation was originating from one particular section of the Garden. Quickly, he hurried to the spot.

There it was- an experimental Modified Fourth Crop unit, one of those that contained a Piece of Himself in its functional pattern. It was standing alone under the leafy upper portion of a large Second Crop unit. It was not "hungry". It was not in Conflict with another Fourth Crop unit. It was not acting in defense of its "young". Then why did it emanate distilled Loosh in such great quantity ?

Someone moved closer. His perception entered into the Modified Fourth Crop unit and then he knew. The unit was lonely! It was this effect that produced distilled Loosh.

Now, just imagine that giftedness is, in some way, related to potential soul qualities... which are related to 'loosh.' Then imagine what kind of "plan" could be put into effect to make sure that the most loosh is produced?

Why, lonely gifted people.

How best to do that?

Well, to create a society in which giftedness is a lonely, painful condition.

In other words, psychopaths and other deviants are the "agents of the Evil Magician," those that spell-bind and hypnotize everyone else. And since their hypnosis works on about 88% of the population, that means that the gifted become "outsiders" instead of valued as they should be.

This is something that Lobaczewski discusses at length in "Political Ponerology." I would suggest that, if you are really "researching," that you will read this book and Secret History as well.

Last time, anart wrote :

On this forum, you find yourself among a large group of 'advanced for their age children' who have grown to learn how to listen as well as how to use their minds for more than self-calming.

Anart, could you precise "more than self-calming" ? Because in the case of 'advanced for their age children', using the mind does the opposite effect (not self-calming but generating negative emotions).

Edit - it has nothing to do with AP, maybe it's best to create another topic since it doesn't deals with the subject ?

Another case where you really need to do the work to find the answers. The issues of self-calming are addressed in great detail in both the work of Gurdjieff and Mouravieff.

As noted above, gifted children in a world dominated by psychopathy turn to "self-calming" because the world itself is painful - and that is due to the nature of socio-cultural norms that are established by deviants. The work of Gurdjieff is to help the gifted come to the understanding that they ARE gifted and that it is a GOOD thing, and to learn to look at the psychopathy of the world objectively. This helps them to overcome the extremely damaging effects of self-calming, "becoming stupid," etc, that certainly helps them cope with the 88% of ordinary people who are under the spell-binding of psychopaths, as well as the psychopaths themselves.

They also learn that their giftedness can be utilized to master this reality in an effective way while, at the same time, advancing their gifts.

The problem always is that with such a small percentage of the population being gifted, finding others of "your kind" is difficult. Due to the laws of genetic recombination, a gifted child can be born anywhere at anytime. And if they are born into a family of stupids, then you have the basis for the fairy tale: "The Ugly Duckling."

The trick is to find others of your kind and to learn to cherish and nurture giftedness, and to learn that it is NOT painful, that there are tremendous rewards to cultivating it, and that, in the end, it is probably only the gifted that have activated those parts of the self that enable them to connect all their centers in dynamic fusion that will survive the species extinction that humanity is facing.

(see: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=5290.msg36420#msg36420 )

 

[Al Today]

I was just reading Laura's article on Climate Change, and I began to think...

Thinking about my children.

This thread seems to contain many who know much more about astral travel than I do.
So, I want to pose a question here...

If/When society goes down the tubes, I would think all 'modern' lines of communication may be severed, broken, destroyed for us common folk.

Could astral travel be used as a form of communication between people?

I would think this would be a positive thing, yes?
Kinda replace the telephones.?.?.?

 

[Keit]

Hey Al Today
Check out this thread
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=5157

 

[Al Today]

Hey Al Today
Check out this thread
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=5157

Thanks Keit.
I missed that one.

But still.?.?.?

Would telepathy be like using a telephone?
Whereas astral projection could be like an extensive web cam?

I don't know...
Back in the seventies I tried stuff as described by Edgar Cayce.
I was going somewhere, but I gotta tell ya.
Nope, no sir/maam, didn't 'feel' right...
Something was wrong with the Guide.
Something evil was lurking there, ( I felt at the time )
I haven't even had an urge to try stuff like that since.

Until that is, my previous post where I seemed to see some real use for it...

 

[ark]

Would telepathy be like using a telephone?

It will be a noisy phone. I think kites are more reliable :)

 

[Al Today]

Would telepathy be like using a telephone?

It will be a noisy phone. I think kites are more reliable :)

Methinks you have given me a clue...
I remember there is info on kites...
I'll find out. THANKS
But anyway, smoke signals for short distance calls...

 

[Jsf]

Would telepathy be like using a telephone?
Whereas astral projection could be like an extensive web cam?

It Tibet, AP has been used for communication between places because of far distances. But since there no miraculously easy technic to get out, I don't have much hope for this point.

Robert Monroe wrotes in Ultimate Journey (p. 12)

Moving into the out-of-body state is an excellent means of gathering information. One of the easiest information runs you can make is checking on the welfare of a loved one. It is also probably the most simple OB targets. If you are separated from your spouse or mate because of a business trip, for example, it's very conforting to home in on her/him to be sure everything is all right. For example, when one of our daughters was away at college, I would occasionally drop in during an OBE to see how she was getting along. However, I mde the mistake to telling her about this on one of her visits home. A year later, she told me that after this disclosure every night just before bedtime she would say to the ceiling in her room, "If you're around, Dad - good night!"

But as it he said in this topic before, better AP does not become an obsession, trying endlessly to project could be (/ is) a trap.

Would telepathy be like using a telephone?

Perhaps you could find an answer in David-Néel's books.

This is an automatic translation of the original text in french (here) :

Extracts of the chapter “Messages through the air

 

[Laura]

Would telepathy be like using a telephone?
Whereas astral projection could be like an extensive web cam?

It Tibet, AP has been used for communication between places because of far distances. But since there no miraculously easy technic to get out, I don't have much hope for this point.

Can you cite a source for your statement that AP has been used for communication in Tibet?

Robert Monroe wrotes in Ultimate Journey (p. 12)

Moving into the out-of-body state is an excellent means of gathering information. One of the easiest information runs you can make is checking on the welfare of a loved one. It is also probably the most simple OB targets. If you are separated from your spouse or mate because of a business trip, for example, it's very conforting to home in on her/him to be sure everything is all right. For example, when one of our daughters was away at college, I would occasionally drop in during an OBE to see how she was getting along. However, I mde the mistake to telling her about this on one of her visits home. A year later, she told me that after this disclosure every night just before bedtime she would say to the ceiling in her room, "If you're around, Dad - good night!"

But as it he said in this topic before, better AP does not become an obsession, trying endlessly to project could be (/ is) a trap.

And you also seem to be forgetting that annoying problem of subjectivity as well as the fact that there are all kinds of denizens of such spheres that just LOVE to deceive.

I thought we had gone over this, but I guess you forgot.

Would telepathy be like using a telephone?

Perhaps you could find an answer in David-Néel's books.

I'm assuming from your remark that you have read her works thoroughly? Have you also read T.S. Illion's "Darkness Over Tibet"??

That should be next on your list. You may find another perspective on the things that you seem to find most fascinating.

Your youthful enthusiasm is refreshing, but, you see, most of us on this forum have "been there, done that."

To give you an idea of what I mean, allow me to show you our library:

No photograph of the 4th wall of the room because there are two windows there and they blinded the camera.

The point is, with very few exceptions, I have read every single book you see in these photographs plus many hundreds of others - if not thousands - that were library books and I do not own them. What is more, I remember nearly everything I read - literally forever (or until I get senile or something.)

Add to this the many members of QFG who have read many thousands of other books, and have contributed to the pool of knowledge during more than 8 years of intense discussions about all these matters, and you might begin to get the idea that we have pretty well covered the subjects and that is what all the material on the websites is about. It was written from my own knowledge base and experience as will as with the help of the research and contributions of some members of QFG.

We are happy to answer questions when questions are sincerely asked, but we aren't here to confirm subjective conclusions that you - or anyone else - are attached to because you have not yet done all the research we have, and/or do not have the experience.

I am not being condescending here, and I apologize if it comes across that way. But the fact is, the world is burning and we all have better things to do than babysit or teach metaphysics 101 when that is already available on the website and hundreds - or even thousands - of years of combined knowledge and experience is available to you there, condensed, annotated, and with sources if you care to educate yourself.

 

[Al Today]

Laura,
I cannot thank enough.
The more I see/learn, seems to be the more i lose.
I have lost all material possesions.
Even my hereditary heirlooms.
I continue to learn, be amused, and learn.
We all must be prepared to make a desision when needed.
And not be afraid.
All the individual units are at different stages.
At least you offer exposure to ideas/views.!.!.!
All of us must decide what path to take.
Networking is a blessing.
Until we have to use smoke signals, again...
Some/Others want to keep us dumb.
Who is ready to break outta this food farm?

 

[Jsf]

Can you cite a source for your statement that AP has been used for communication in Tibet?

Alexandra David-Néel (I have to recall in what book), and other sources I read but less precise.

"all kinds of denizens of such spheres that just LOVE to deceive"

I did not forget :)
If we are conscious that they can deceive us, like we know that a lot of people in real life could deceive us as well, ... ?

Have you also read T.S. Illion's "Darkness Over Tibet"??
That should be next on your list.

Yes, I read your article, bought Darkness Over Tibet, and currently finishing it. But I thought he didn't get physically to Tibet but Siberia (no link with telepathy?) ?

Your youthful enthusiasm is refreshing

(On the wall)

We are happy to answer questions when questions are sincerely asked, but we aren't here to confirm subjective conclusions

I was sincere, and not conclusions. I accepted and now understood your advises, i think.

We are happy to answer questions when questions are sincerely asked, but we aren't here to confirm subjective conclusions that you - or anyone else - are attached to because you have not yet done all the research we have, and/or do not have the experience.

Sorry if I seem to appear condescendent, I keep reading and reading and reading but now I am pretty despaired, there is so much to do. Ok, it's hard way, I will not complain longer.

 

[anart]

I was sincere, and not conclusions. I accepted and now understood your advises, i think.

Yes, you keep saying this - yet, you keep making statements that contradict it. You have, in fact, consistently presented conclusions - and after 46 posts in two months, you still hold on very tightly to your subjective understanding of things. Do not ask me to give you examples of this - they are legion at this point. Perhaps this is the point where you let go a bit and actually start to learn, perhaps it is not - we shall see.

By the way, why did you post a picture of your small collection of books - was it to show how far you have to go? ;)