Atlantis

Tuatha de Danaan

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Carlson starts of by explaining the history of Atlantis and how it basically originated or came to us by one work; Plato’s accounts given in Timaeus and Critias. He then cites a number scholarly works that where dedicated to Atlantis and sort of gives a rundown on how exactly "what we commonly know" about Atlantis has been created/changed over the decades, mainly by a few scholarly works in which straw man arguments and red herrings were established, based on which the subject and people who work on it got ridiculed and distracted from what Plato actually told us. If you are not familiar with the hard science and the terms scholar use in their works (in geology for example), it is hard to understand what they say. Carlson explains many of those terms, so that it is understandable for a layperson what they are actually saying. So it is easy for nefarious "scientist" to fool the public by making authoritative statements about the subject. If you look closely on what has actually been published in scientific works though, as Randall has over the decades, it becomes quite clear that there already existed a wealth of good scientific work on the subject and the surrounding circumstances and related fields/studies. So even at the time those straw man scientists established their dismissal of the subject, it was clear that what they stated so categorically isn't true, for people who look closely at things. To really understand that though, you have to be able to read and understand scientific language which most people can't.

Those few works, even though they were clearly flawed and plain wrong in what they stated as "facts" then became what most scholars and critical people referred to, when they tried to discredit the idea. That happened in the 70ies. Before that point there were a number of very interesting scholarly works published, reaching back all the way to the 19hundreds (and actually centuries back), that set out very well reasoned arguments based on different kinds of evidences. Then the straw man "scientific works" in the 70ies set out to basically destroy all that. For example; the idea that we are talking about a "sunken Continent" was first really established as a straw man argument in a work in 1978 in which the authors ever so slyly changed what Plato actually said from an "Island" to a "continent" in a matter of a couple of sentences. Plato talked about an Island though and the authors of this work changed it to "continent" (on purpose I think) in order to discredit previous good works.

He cites a number of examples in that regard in which the language was changed ever so slyly and thus what we actually know about Atlantis today (or think we know). With the end result that beginning in the 70ies, scientist and ordinary people began to look for Atlantis anywhere and everywhere on the globe except at the pretty explicit area Plato has given us. He also explains how then all sorts of things that were never mentioned by Plato (partly a result of works like the above) started to emerge where people all of a sudden talked about things like "electricity" and "flying planes" (and other "high tech" things) in regard to the Atlantis story. All of which was never mentioned by Plato. Carlson also gives historical context about the controversy that goes back centuries about what Plato said and that there are different camps. Some think everything he told us there is basically fantasy or myth while others take a more literal approach on it (he really meant what he said, so to say) and so on.

Then Carlson cites extensively out of Plato's own writing (while also explaining some translation controversies) and what some translated words and phrases meant in the original greek. What becomes clear is, that our main source on Atlantis, namely Plato, was very explicit both in terms of location and on the actual reality of what happened to Atlantis in his work.

Then Carlson takes this as a hypothesis (that much of it can be interpreted literally), and looks for evidence of what Plato told us there in the scientific literature (and he has read a lot of it!). Then Carlson walks us through one scientific paper after the other and explains what those scientists already knew decades, even centuries ago, about the mid Atlantic ridge for example and in particular the exact area that Plato describes. He also explains the mechanisms and scientific terms applied by those scientists, like "isostatic rebound" and "emersion" versus "immersion" and "subarial recrystallization".

Carlson also refers to a work published in 1880 by Ignatius Donnelly called "Atlantis: The Antediluvian World" which set forth 13 proportions (that were later attacked and "disproved" by the aforementioned fraudulent works in the 1970ies on the basis of its "wrong geology", which Carslon shows wasn't wrong even at that time). Donelly's propositions involving various fields including geology, linguistics etc. were as follows:



Carlson also explores a bit the myth of Phaeton. One work he cites there is The Commentaries of Proclus on Timaeus of Plato in Five books (translated from the Greek by Thomas Taylor, 1820). Randall makes it clear that very early on, the myth of Phaeton was explicitly referred to as a real event by authors like Proclus (*412–485 C.E.) and even in their own words connected to a comet. So very early on, after Plato mentioned Atlantis, there were already well established traditions that Phaeton as well a number of other things like the fall of Atlantis could have had a lot to do with comets. So Carlson suggest therefore, that it would be foolish, given that fact, to not look into that direction when discussing Atlantis from the get go.

Carlson also exemplifies what the scientific literature said and says by explaining it in layman terms and using the latest satellite image capabilities and so on to get a better grasp of what they are actually talking about visually. That also applies to things like crystallization of certain stones in the air versus under water and other mechanisms known in geology and other fields.

Carlson also makes it clear that later works like Edgar Casey viewing of Atlantis are interesting but that one doesn't even need to go into that speculative direction to prove that what Plato mentioned has a high probability of actually have taken place, based on scientific papers alone.

Pashlis;

I've listened to all Carlson's videos and he sure is a born storyteller with a very impish attitude. Wonderfully engaging and brilliant.

Your précis had the same wonderful style of story-telling and I thoroughly enjoyed the information all over again. Thank you.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
It could but remember that according to the possibly time periods, there was an ice age on most of the period of time of Atlantis existence! So big part of the US was covered in ice. Interesting observation nevertheless.

I am not sure what source you are remembering but the Cs do give a description of the Atlantean ice age. I don't think they indicate that the U.S. region was covered in ice but the poles were.


Session 9 May 1998:
Q: Yes. That we will be provided for. Yes, but it is hard because we have to be apart... Okay. I would like to know what the geographic coordinates, according to our current grid system, that would frame Atlantis. I don't need the exact shape, just a general box shape... the perimeter...

A: Like asking: "What are the geographic coordinates of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization?"

Q: Okay, let me get more specific: the Atlantean land that was supposed to have existed in the Atlantic Ocean... what was the farthest north of any part of Atlantis that was in the ocean, that no longer exists?

A: It is "time for you" to know that Atlantis was not a nation, land, Island, or continent, but rather, a civilization!

Q: All I wanted was to have an idea of a land mass in the Atlantic ocean that people talk about - where did it sit?

A: Where do you think?

Q: Well, I sort of think that the Azores and the Canary Islands are sort of...

A: Yes, but many other places too. Remember, the sea level was several hundred feet lower then...

Q: Why was the sea level several hundred feet lower? Because there was ice somewhere or because there was not as much water on the earth at that time?

A: Ice.

Q: Was the ice piled up at the poles? The ice sheet of the ice age?

A: Yes.

Q: So, Atlantis existed during the ice age?

A: Largely, yes. And the world's climate was scarcely any colder away from the ice sheets than it is today.


Q: Well, how could that be? What caused these glaciers?

A: Global warming.

Q: How does global warming cause glaciers?

A: Increases precipitation dramatically. Then moves the belt of great precipitation much farther north. This causes rapid buildup of ice sheets, followed by increasingly rapid and intense glacial rebound.
 

irjo

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I am not sure what source you are remembering but the Cs do give a description of the Atlantean ice age. I don't think they indicate that the U.S. region was covered in ice but the poles were.


Session 9 May 1998:

I’m not relying on the Cs sessions but mostly on the maps according the scientists and paleontologist of how the earth was on the last major ice age.
 

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irjo

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I think your original post was just a bit confusing because technically very little of the U.S. was covered in ice - it was Canada that was covered.

My apologies for the confusion, I had in my mind the areas where now are the biggest cities in the us are located like New York, Washington DC, Chicago for example (not LA). And there was a tundra like weather surrounding the areas where the ice ends. So I thought maybe the US wasn’t as a popular option compare to other places where big cities can develop better during that period of time. But I can be wrong on that.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I’m not relying on the Cs sessions but mostly on the maps according the scientists and paleontologist of how the earth was on the last major ice age.

@irjo ,

As @Approaching Infinity was saying Canada was covered and some the northern part of the U.S. was covered by the glaciers but not all of the U.S. lower areas.

I lived in southern Ohio and the glaciers did flatten the northern part of Ohio. In the southern tip the glaciers left moraines which became low rolling hills.

Ice Age Ohio
About 1.8 million years ago the warm climate of the Cenozoic Era cooled sufficiently for large continental glaciers to begin to accumulate in far northern latitudes. As the ice built to a great thickness it began to slowly flow outward and into the northern United States, including about two-thirds of Ohio. Thus began the Pleistocene Ice Age, which profoundly changed Ohio's landscape to the benefit of our society and left the first record of geologic events in Ohio since more than 290 million years ago.
 

Nostradamus

The Force is Strong With This One
Yonaguni

Q: Okay, I guess the gentle thing is to just ignore it. I do want to ask a quick one about these ruins found off the coast of Japan in the past year that is just now getting noticed here in the US.
A: Fault movements reveal previous layer of civilized exploits.

Q: What civilization?
A: Clues can be found by studying historic dynastic China.

Hello all,

Thank you shijing for your work.

Concerning the connections Yonaguni / historic dynastic China, has anyone made any discoveries?


 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Yonaguni

Q: Okay, I guess the gentle thing is to just ignore it. I do want to ask a quick one about these ruins found off the coast of Japan in the past year that is just now getting noticed here in the US.
A: Fault movements reveal previous layer of civilized exploits.

Q: What civilization?
A: Clues can be found by studying historic dynastic China.

Hello all,

Thank you shijing for your work.

Concerning the connections Yonaguni / historic dynastic China, has anyone made any discoveries?

@Nostradamus , (never thought I'd get to talk to Nostradamus :-P)

I haven't but others think they have. Until you mentioned it haven't looked.

Here is one group that thinks they have solved the mystery:

YONAGUNI PYRAMID
A Geoglyphic Study of The Yonaguni Monolith, Japan
Geoglyphology

The information gathered for presentation on this website was gathered using the new science of Geoglyphology. (Google keyword: Geoglyphology). The calculations performed on this website require the use of a special software called "Google Earth". Google's software is able to calculate true spherical bearings on a curved surface and then display them correctly on a flat plane. This software can be acquired free by searching the internet using the keywords "Google Earth".

I don't know if they are on to something or not.

They do mention the lower water level during the possible construction period.

"During the past 10,000 years, the ocean water level rose about 40 meters. From this fact, it is only natural to think that many ancient civilization are now deep under water. Drills we use to investigate ruins have improved recently, so with the help of the latest equipment, we may have a scientific conclusion on this matter in the near future."

Session 9 May 1998:
Q: Okay, let me get more specific: the Atlantean land that was supposed to have existed in the Atlantic Ocean... what was the farthest north of any part of Atlantis that was in the ocean, that no longer exists?

A: It is "time for you" to know that Atlantis was not a nation, land, Island, or continent, but rather, a civilization!

Q: All I wanted was to have an idea of a land mass in the Atlantic ocean that people talk about - where did it sit?

A: Where do you think?

Q: Well, I sort of think that the Azores and the Canary Islands are sort of...

A: Yes, but many other places too. Remember, the sea level was several hundred feet lower then...

Q: Why was the sea level several hundred feet lower? Because there was ice somewhere or because there was not as much water on the earth at that time?

A: Ice.
 

Nostradamus

The Force is Strong With This One
Hi Goyacobol,

Yes, you have the honor of speaking with the reincarnation of Nostradamus :-D

Thank you for your answer and sharing of this information. The text is very interesting. It remains to link the geological analyses with the history but for the moment I haven't found any convincing evidence in the archives of the Chinese dynasties.
 

JEEP

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I lived in southern Ohio and the glaciers did flatten the northern part of Ohio. In the southern tip the glaciers left moraines which became low rolling hills.
About 1.8 million years ago the warm climate of the Cenozoic Era cooled sufficiently for large continental glaciers to begin to accumulate in far northern latitudes. As the ice built to a great thickness it began to slowly flow outward and into the northern United States, including about two-thirds of Ohio.
I live in central Ohio and recently saw a map on TV indicating the line of glaciation in Ohio during the last Ice Age and it extended well past the central part of the state - the southeastern portion appeared to be the only area ice free.

Just off shore from Marblehead in Lake Erie is the tourist attraction of Kelleys Island:
Ice, however, is not hard enough to cut through a rock. It’s the rock fragments and sand grains embedded underneath the glacier that provide the abrasive power to cut trough-like glacial grooves. The finer sediments in the base of the moving glacier further scour and polish the bedrock surface, forming a glacial pavement.

The glacial grooves on the north side of Kelley’s Island are the largest easily accessible such grooves in the world. They were scoured into solid limestone bedrock about 18,000 years ago by the great ice sheet which covered part of North America. This impressive groove is 400-feet long, 35-feet wide, and up to 10-feet deep. The ice which created these grooves were probably hundreds of feet thick and flowed from the north in what is now the Lake Erie basin. The grooves were under several feet of soil before they were dug out in the 1970s.

At one time Kelley's Island had a much larger glacial groove area with grooves over 2,000 feet in length. It was called the “Great Grooves”. Unfortunately, active quarrying in the area destroyed most of the grooves. The remaining grooves are now protected and fenced in, although open for public. The old rock quarry is still visible behind the Glacial Grooves State Memorial.

Glacial Grooves on Kelley's Island

 

floetus

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Really fascinating series! It's absolutelly astonishing to realize how explicit Plato's dialogues are in regard to location and destruction of Atlantis. With every new episode more and more puzzle pieces are added to the picture.

SPOILER ALERT! In episode six we look closer at the area around the Azores, where Solon roughly places the island of Atlantis and learn that many details fit scientific discoveries that have been made by various bonafide scientists in the 40ies, 50ties and 60ties, which support the idea of a sunken landmass along the Mid-Atlantic-Ridge (right through the Azores) in terms of geological findings and the related understanding of the tectonic mechanisms involved. After probing parts of the ridge, which is infact the longest mountain range on earth, they found structures that appear to be former coastlines and material that is clearly associated with continental crust. The scientists concluded: "Either the land must have sunk two to three miles, or the sea once must have been two to three miles lower than now. Either conclusion is startling" One can assume that there was a little bit of both involved.

The Azores are the highest peaks of that huge mountain range. This area also got warmed up during the last ice age by a differently located gulf stream, as proposed by another scientist in the 80ties, which would have made this area an ideal spot to thrive on during the ice age. Also the timing Solon ascribes to its destruction fits exactly the date of the Younger Dryas Impact. The major melting of glaciers, as we learn in this episode, seems to have effected the tectonic plates in terms of a process called "isostatic adjustment", meaning that the plates move vertically and raise or rather fall in that case dramatically. In light of all this scientific data, it seems rediculous to assume, that those dialogues were meant in a symbolic or metaphorical manner, especially when it is even explicitelly said in the text, that the story is meant literally. "Then listen Socrates, to a strange tale which is, however, certainly true, as Solon, who was the wisest of the seven sages, declared." As it has been pointed out by goyacobol: When Solon refers to the destruction of Atlantis he even tells us that this event is coded into the Myth of Phaethon, which pretty much describes a comet impact! This is a major clue for all modern scholars, but unfortunatelly gets ignored or ridiculed since the seventies, as Pashalis already described earlier.
 
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