Attack during sleep/Need help

[Serendipity]

This sounds disturbing! What it looks like to me is,-either I'm subconsciously controlled agent(similar to VB) sent on a mission from that guy in suit-projection who points his finger a lot to uncover something for sts forces-or I was victim, and same forces that tried to uncover something from Laura's subconsciousness,tried similar thing with me-or it's just big and weird coincidences,maybe even universe telling us something is it's own way

Serendipity,

It could be several other things in addition to what you listed above. I have read over most of your previous posts but not the whole threads. I have a few questions, and a few are a repeat of what Truth Seeker and Oxajil asked, but that have not been answered yet.

1. What changes have you made to your diet?

2. Do you still eat any sugar, gluten, or dairy?

3. Why do you say you know that your brother is an OP?

4. Have you read any of the Big 5 books yet? The Myth of Sanity by Martha Stout; The Narcissistic Family by Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman & Robert M. Pressman; Trapped in The Mirror by Elan Golomb; Unholy Hungers by Barbara Hort; and In Sheep's Clothing by George K. Simon

Hey Daenerys,
I pretty much answered to your first 3 questions in my last post, so diet isn't much of an issue for me :)
I've read Myth of Sanity and plan to read others when I get some money :P

 

[EmeraldHope]

Hey Daenerys,I pretty much answered to your first 3 questions in my last post, so diet isn't much of an issue for me I've read Myth of Sanity and plan to read others when I get some money

Thanks.


The C's and Laura and Ark have always said we should never play spot the OP. One can make a hypothesis, but one cannot be sure.


It sure sounds like you and your brother BOTH must have had a really hard time growing up from what I gathered in your posts. It may be that he has a different way of dealing with trauma than you do. It takes a lot of understanding and knowledge to identify the difference between possible pathology or someone being an "OP" and a souled person in struggle, and even then it is hard to be sure.


It is good that you started on your reading!


The medical term for what you are experiencing during sleep is hypnagogia. You are other than alone in that experience. Many of us here have had it.


Some more information may be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia


Sometimes, unprocessed trauma can manifest in these night time situations. Looking at some of the threads in the forum related to that can be helpful also. This may be a good one to start:


https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,25410.msg300059.html#msg300059


I am sure other people will have helpful ideas as well.

 

[truth seeker]

I'm on paleo diet. I eat mostly bacon,pork,eggs,buckwheat and butter.I just love eating fat.Also when I ate something from bakery month ago it made me sick and then I realized how actually poisonous to stomach wheat and especially gluten actually is.I don't have source where I can get organic meat,but other then that I keep my diet under check.

It's great that you're improving your diet, however, do you realize that it can take 6 months or longer to clear gluten from your system? What this means is that we can still be under the effects of it in many ways.

Have you had a chance to read the life without bread thread?

I don't think he is an OP, I know it. I spent big part of my life interacting with him so I know him very well,and I know about OPs so it was just matter of putting 2 and 2 together cause he incorporates OP behaviour.It is real knowledge and not assumption.If you wish I'll write some reasons why I think he is an OP.

First thing is the drain I feel in his presence,and then the experiences with him reacting to my mental blocking of the drain.(and I understand that OPs are just portals for 4DSTS forces,they aren't aware of their role)

He never internally struggles,never have I saw him do it,before I knew about OPs I admired and wondered that ability of his,but now I know he is just simple machine and behaves that way to my non disappointment on and on.

Then there are outburst of his, for example we had grandma and grandpa as guests,they can't come often so one should appreciate and enjoy spending time with their grandparents,(and BTW they are really good grandparents,and pretty much all the real family we have)so my bro comes to the table to eat the really nice dinner that grandma made,but there is a problem,cause our dad got to the table and he starts to eat as well,and my bro can't stand my dad's tables manners,haha so he feels he was mistreated that great unjustice is being done to him and starts yelling and making all the mess and creating bad atmosphere in general cause his right to eat in 'peace' was taken away by his fathers behaviour,totally oblivious to the needs and feelings of our grandparents who are nothing but kind to us.

Before,he was very manipulative to me,when I'd let him to manipulate me but he knows now that's over.He wasn't even be conscious of the way he was manipulating my emotions.

But he likes to follow me in whatever I do.When I was playing online video games he would start to play same game as me and it would only ended in fight and race and controll,mainly on his side.

He is not interested in anything spiritual or immaterial,if I only mention something like that he would turn off and now I even recognize in his eyes when he is ''turned off'' (some mental part that thinks logically turns off)

There is no neurotic behaviour that I noticed from him ever,so no much to worry about,sleeps like a baby,never had a headache.

This one is hilarious but listen and try to believe..He never would make himself anything to eat,always expects food made or bought from store by his dad,even tho he is 20 years old,he even goes to bad with empty stomach if there is nothing served for him.. Now I can see his behaviour for what it is - robotic.

Aren't we all robotic/mechanical in some way, shape or form? How can anyone be sure that they are not an OP?

 

[Serendipity]

Daenerys,thanks for the advice and the links
I know about hypnagogia,and about possibility it's expression of some trauma,and that by far the best way to clear the traumas and emotional dirt is EE,and it's up to me to do it :)

It's great that you're improving your diet, however, do you realize that it can take 6 months or longer to clear gluten from your system? What this means is that we can still be under the effects of it in many ways.

thruth seeker, I know that but thank you for reminding me.I really started to take the diet bussines seriously few months ago,and while there were few occasions where I tripped and ate something I shouldn't the effect it had on my body was immediate and clear.I'd get upset stomach and headache soon after eating something containing wheat or lactose.Now I'm extra carefull about what I put in my mouth and extra benefit is strengthening of the willpower http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,26772.msg323339.html#msg323339

I didn't have that chance yet,there are a lot of pages there! :P I saw other members advicing newbies to read up that thread cause there you made all the important discoveries and connections based on trial and error and the whole thread is generally usefull as guide for diet. I read the post about 'the List' from Atriedes, and I understood the meaning.

Aren't we all robotic/mechanical in some way, shape or form? How can anyone be sure that they are not an OP?

Yes we are,and it's near impossible indeed to know for sure one isn't OP himself, but C's left us some clues,and they said that by long study it is possible.

Well,even biologically there is good chance that me or my brothers or our father are OPs cause our grandfather from dad's side is nothing short of a total psycho.
All 3 of his children were emotionally and mentally ruined.My uncle hanged himself few months ago,and when I talk with my aunt I have feeling like talking with 12 year old.

And my father is story for himself.Religious zealot but deeply troubled inside.And my other brother is totally focused on material life and building his body that it's hard to even believe.This was kind of off topic but I wrote it down anyway to say that I don't go around pinpointing who is OP who is not.Hell,most of my extended family is messed up,but I don't call them OPs.

And while I understand what both of you are trying to say,that no one can know for sure is other OP,or even is one himself OP,one can look and notice the small clues.
One can objectively look and be open for all possibilities,and if one possibility in light of the growing knowledge and increased awareness,proves as truth,then it's good that one has considered that possibility making oneself forewarned thus forearmed.
But main point is that you must always be open and objective when making such conclusions,and I can see that it's easy to fall in the pit of subjective reasoning and wishful thinking.
Whoa,do I wiseacre much?!

The point is that if I am objective enough and knowledgeable enough and if I spent enough time interacting or observing the behaviour of my brother then I can make a valid conclusion to consider him OP, but of course being open to being wrong and if that turns out to be the case then adjusting understanding and then perception accordingly.
Thank you for bearing with me :)

 

[EmeraldHope]

And while I understand what both of you are trying to say,that no one can know for sure is other OP,or even is one himself OP,one can look and notice the small clues.
One can objectively look and be open for all possibilities,and if one possibility in light of the growing knowledge and increased awareness,proves as truth,then it's good that one has considered that possibility making oneself forewarned thus forearmed.
But main point is that you must always be open and objective when making such conclusions,and I can see that it's easy to fall in the pit of subjective reasoning and wishful thinking.
Whoa,do I wiseacre much?!

The point is that if I am objective enough and knowledgeable enough and if I spent enough time interacting or observing the behaviour of my brother then I can make a valid conclusion to consider him OP, but of course being open to being wrong and if that turns out to be the case then adjusting understanding and then perception accordingly.
Thank you for bearing with me :)

Reminder from : http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/montalk_hist.htm

After we began investigating the subject of organic portals last year, we quickly understood that this subject had to be handled delicately. It is one of the certainties of this world that any perceived difference between people, be it visible or invisible, real or imagined, will be used by someone to discriminate against "others", to force them into hierarchies where the "others" are made subservient. Our intent in researching this issue was not to add more grist to this "us against them" mill. Our interest was the greater understanding it brought us in seeing how the world actually works. The concept of the Organic Portal removes one of the most important veils of Reality; a veil that prevents understanding and acceptance. In no way is this material supposed to establish a barrier that creates elitism, discord and aggressive separatism.In the internal discussions of the Quantum Future School, we made it quite clear that we were not interested in making checklists to be able to play the game of "Spot the OP!".[
[This was, for us, a matter of the utmost importance.

Now that being said, what list are you using to qualify him as an OP?


How can you qualify anything if your own machine is not cleaned and adjusted?


How, without further reading of the Big 5 and other data of what else may be amiss, can you objectively label at all? You said you did not think he was an OP, you KNEW he was an OP in a prior post. :O

 

[Serendipity]

How, without further reading of the Big 5 and other data of what else may be amiss, can you objectively label at all? You said you did not think he was an OP, you KNEW he was an OP in a prior post. :O

Yes I realize big 5 is a must to read to understand my own mechanicality and programs etc.But I have some understanding of my own mechanicality,not as much as I could but enough to make the conclusion about my brother.I see what you are trying to show me,but maybe not clear enough.

But again I know his behaviour from since he was little and never have I seen him suffer,or struggle or question the deeper life questions,or have any higher qualities for that matter.Maybe I can't know for sure what he is,and you're right, but I can not to un-notice and un-perceive what I perceived and noticed and keep noticing, and especially can't unlearn what I know.

Maybe I really do know what I'm talking about,how would you know what I know:P Everyone is different and we all learned different lessons and have different lessons yet to learn.Remember that C's said that very core of knowledge protects against acquiring false knowledge,so who is to say that I don't Know what I've said.

It's important to question own understandings and perceived knowledge and I am trying to question it.Even C's said that it's possible to spot OP so I don't know why all the fuss about this.


Let me add about those 2 big posts I wrote.I didn't wrote them in desperate need of help,like the title may suggest to someone.I learned a lot since I first joined this forum and wrote those posts,I learned to write more comprehensive,to be less subjective etc. Also,I didn't write it in a state of fear or anxiety,cause the knowledge helps me understand those experiences better,and I now know the means to protect myself(diet ,EE, work, objectivity etc)

And, especially I didn't write it to feed the illusion that I'm special in some kind or that those experiences are special.
I'm only guilty of wanting to share my experiences and make myself as understandable as possible,and that someone might relate and learn something from it.I'm on quest for knowledge like all of us here.
As I said, I tried to be objective and give my understanding of these events,parts of which might be true and parts false,I didn't say I must be right.

But I appreciate advices, of course :)

EDIT: Good night

 

[truth seeker]

I didn't have that chance yet,there are a lot of pages there! :P I saw other members advicing newbies to read up that thread cause there you made all the important discoveries and connections based on trial and error and the whole thread is generally usefull as guide for diet. I read the post about 'the List' from Atriedes, and I understood the meaning.

I really can't stress enough how important it is for you to read before attempting the diet. This is so you understand how it works and is suggested so that you can do it safely.

I'm only guilty of wanting to share my experiences and make myself as understandable as possible,and that someone might relate and learn something from it.I'm on quest for knowledge like all of us here.
As I said, I tried to be objective and give my understanding of these events,parts of which might be true and parts false,I didn't say I must be right.

But I appreciate advices, of course :)

The thing is, we can't be completely objective on our own which is why we network. So it's good that you've taken that step. The next step after networking is to try and consider the feedback given. While it may not have been your intention to do so, your posts come across as if you already know all that you need to know. In other words, your cup appears a bit full.

Perhaps if you can consider that others are seeing something that you may not currently see, your understanding will increase. This is how we all learn, so no need to feel uncomfortable with the replies if you do. We're only trying to help you gain knowledge. In order for that to occur, you need to be willing to let go of some of your assumptions and really be open to questioning what it is that you currently think.

 

[EmeraldHope]

Here is a great little piece that I picked up from Laura:

Emptying Your Cup - by Nonin Chowaney

One of my favorite stories concerns a Buddhist scholar and a Zen Master. The scholar had an extensive background in Buddhist Studies and was an expert on the Nirvana Sutra. He came to study with the master and after making the customary bows, asked her to teach him Zen. Then, he began to talk about his extensive doctrinal background and rambled on and on about the many sutras he had studied.The master listened patiently and then began to make tea. When it was ready, she poured the tea into the scholar's cup until it began to overflow and run all over the floor. The scholar saw what was happening and shouted, "Stop, stop! The cup is full; you can't get anymore in."

The master stopped pouring and said: "You are like this cup; you are full of ideas about Buddha's Way. You come and ask for teaching, but your cup is full; I can't put anything in. Before I can teach you, you'll have to empty your cup."

 

[Search]

Here is a great little piece that I picked up from Laura:

Emptying Your Cup - by Nonin Chowaney

One of my favorite stories concerns a Buddhist scholar and a Zen Master. The scholar had an extensive background in Buddhist Studies and was an expert on the Nirvana Sutra. He came to study with the master and after making the customary bows, asked her to teach him Zen. Then, he began to talk about his extensive doctrinal background and rambled on and on about the many sutras he had studied.The master listened patiently and then began to make tea. When it was ready, she poured the tea into the scholar's cup until it began to overflow and run all over the floor. The scholar saw what was happening and shouted, "Stop, stop! The cup is full; you can't get anymore in."

The master stopped pouring and said: "You are like this cup; you are full of ideas about Buddha's Way. You come and ask for teaching, but your cup is full; I can't put anything in. Before I can teach you, you'll have to empty your cup."

Very nice quote. :)
So, in also can be used in such a way?:
If the one's cup are full of disinformation (or a big amount of tea in the cup = disinformation), you cannot put tea=information in the cup either, until it is not empty. In other words you cannot do it, until one become realizing that all that information, that one has, can be not true.
And it is the same with learning, in order to learn more and more you need to throw away some ideas, I mean not all ideas/information, but you have to replace some tea in your cup, which is no longer true, with a new tea, by realizing that the old one tea/information is no longer true.
As it was said a lot of times, you have to stay open.

Edit: spellcheck

 

[Nienna]

I didn't have that chance yet,there are a lot of pages there! :P I saw other members advicing newbies to read up that thread cause there you made all the important discoveries and connections based on trial and error and the whole thread is generally usefull as guide for diet. I read the post about 'the List' from Atriedes, and I understood the meaning.

I really can't stress enough how important it is for you to read before attempting the diet. This is so you understand how it works and is suggested so that you can do it safely.

I agree with truth seeker on all she, and others, have said about OPs, and needing to empty your cup in order to actually learn. However, I want to point out that reading the Life Without Bread thread is very important in order to know what to do and how to do it. It really should be done before attempting the paleo diet.

You mention wheat and gluten, but do you realize that gluten, and other similar items, are in more than wheat? Such as oats, bran, rice, millet, ect.? We recommend getting off of all grains. And that means buckwheat, quinoa, amaranth and like "non-grains" as they have similar items in them as what gluten is. Then, after a month or two, would be getting off of dairy which has similar properties to gluten in it.

There is a lot of very pertinent information in the Life Without Bread thread. The reason why we say to read the entire thread is because more information and experimentation was carried out as the thread grew and it is all very important information.

On the OP thing. The Cs have said that someone that is labeled an OP may just be a struggling soul. From what you have written, did you think that maybe your brother figured that the best way to cope with his life was to bury his emotions? To not show them at all? Your brother may, indeed, be an OP, but he may also just be a soul in trouble.

Actually, we are all OPs until we can clean our machine and start growing and individuated soul of our own (as anart is wont to say).

 

[Serendipity]

Thank you all for your responses, but honestly most of the things you are telling me I already know.
I didn't read the whole thread yet, but I've read plenty about paleo diet and I know about the gluten.

My cup isn't full, it maybe just appears to you that way because maybe your cup is full and some of the things I shared don't agree with you, maybe because I'm pretty much newbie and you think that I can't contribute with anything objectively true to the network because I must have less understanding of the things then you have,or maybe simply because my experiences are different then those of most of the people.

I'm not saying that I'm special,just different and have different experiences then most of other people here or there.(maybe I simply have higher perception of realms where battle of the centers is done, or other possibility is that my centers are more frequently in opposition..)

I am open for new things to learn,I learn something new here each day,and change my worldwide accordingly,but from some of your responses it looks like your cup might be full,maybe?
About me saying that I know my brother is OP.I don't need you to believe me,I just said it to explain better my experiences,you do with it what you want.If you want I wont mention that my brother is OP again.

I am not attacking you or anyone else,or defending my believes.I'm defending what I know is Truth,and that's righteous anger isn't it.
Again,you are giving great advices and I understand what you are saying,only problem is that you didn't understand/believed what I wrote and dismissed it firsthand.

My experiences are weird and different,and I learned to change my worldview, throw away false info,prejudice , especially over the last years,and I know that I have better understanding of what these experiences are (not full and completely objective, but good),and cause I'm sincerely doing my best to stay open at all times I know I wont get stuck in subjective worldview and more illusions because I'm open.


BTW I have the ability to controll and call goosebumps and feeling that accompanies it.I used to use it when I was sick as a child,and later, for some time I thought I'm special for having this ability cause not many people seems to had it, but that was only short time before I realized it was sts wishfull thinking that leads to nowhere.
I now know I'm only different for having this ability and have recently learned that there are other people with this ability as well.Here is the link to forum discussion:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=fhlvtjv1it6ega6cnfflvkqce3&topic=428.0

We have same goal here that's important thing, and not if someone is different or having different experiences,but please tell me if you don't want me to write anymore about it and I really wont.But I wouldn't write about it in the first place if I didn't know there is objective Truth in them,at least some,and I simply wanted to share,for those who might find it usefull in some way.I don't want to impose my wordview onto others.

 

[Serendipity]

Last night I went to bed and I was feeling ready for good night sleep.I was flowing in to a dream state.I could feel creative energy rising, flowing through my head.

And then when I was becoming the dream itself,happened the same thing that has been happening almost every night for long time. My brother seemingly in peacefull,deep sleep, suddenly took a deep strong Long breath like sucking machine.Then it started.I could feel like some pressure on my belly above the navel,almost like something is trying to get in and if that would happen burning like sensation will happen in that same place in my belly.

So I did only thing I knew.I resisted, did mental blocking. And each time I successfully blocked,meaning stopped that (out of my control) feeling of burning in my belly , my brother would moan. Then few moments again same thing I tried to not give in,preventing burning in my belly,my brother moans even louder,more eerier,like someone is torturing him in sleep.

I successfully blocked and prevented the burning sensation for 10 Min's or so but from whoever did the attack came from(and I suspect 4d STS) was relentless, and finally the burning happened,and few times.And guess what, my brother didn't moan this time, but making happy yam yam sounds and moving his mouth like he is eating something..brr. No more moaning for him , but I guess he got his cookie.

Then I started feeling yucky, and some energy like radiation burning my body,and even my skin started to itch,and my head was starting to hurt.The creative energy that I had 20 Min's ago and should been used for dreams was stolen, sucked out ,and I felt that. Even my blood sugar fell down so I had to eat an apple.

Even though this repeating events qualify my bro as OP that doesn't make him necessarily one, in my understanding, STS forces use souled humans with lack of awareness? as OPs. But it's the other things and some of them aren't explainable with words that made me realize he is OP.After all, I lived with him 20 years,and maybe I even can feel something on the level of energy.

What do you think about all of this.It happens every few nights and believe me it's weird and scary, and I experience it as energetic fact!

 

[EmeraldHope]

Thank you all for your responses, but honestly most of the things you are telling me I already know.
I didn't read the whole thread yet, but I've read plenty about paleo diet and I know about the gluten.

My cup isn't full, it maybe just appears to you that way because maybe your cup is full and some of the things I shared don't agree with you, maybe because I'm pretty much newbie and you think that I can't contribute with anything objectively true to the network because I must have less understanding of the things then you have,or maybe simply because my experiences are different then those of most of the people.

I'm not saying that I'm special,just different and have different experiences then most of other people here or there.(maybe I simply have higher perception of realms where battle of the centers is done, or other possibility is that my centers are more frequently in opposition..)

I am open for new things to learn,I learn something new here each day,and change my worldwide accordingly,but from some of your responses it looks like your cup might be full,maybe?
About me saying that I know my brother is OP.I don't need you to believe me,I just said it to explain better my experiences,you do with it what you want.If you want I wont mention that my brother is OP again.

I am not attacking you or anyone else,or defending my believes.I'm defending what I know is Truth,and that's righteous anger isn't it.
Again,you are giving great advices and I understand what you are saying,only problem is that you didn't understand/believed what I wrote and dismissed it firsthand.

My experiences are weird and different,and I learned to change my worldview, throw away false info,prejudice , especially over the last years,and I know that I have better understanding of what these experiences are (not full and completely objective, but good),and cause I'm sincerely doing my best to stay open at all times I know I wont get stuck in subjective worldview and more illusions because I'm open.


BTW I have the ability to controll and call goosebumps and feeling that accompanies it.I used to use it when I was sick as a child,and later, for some time I thought I'm special for having this ability cause not many people seems to had it, but that was only short time before I realized it was sts wishfull thinking that leads to nowhere.
I now know I'm only different for having this ability and have recently learned that there are other people with this ability as well.Here is the link to forum discussion:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=fhlvtjv1it6ega6cnfflvkqce3&topic=428.0

We have same goal here that's important thing, and not if someone is different or having different experiences,but please tell me if you don't want me to write anymore about it and I really wont.But I wouldn't write about it in the first place if I didn't know there is objective Truth in them,at least some,and I simply wanted to share,for those who might find it usefull in some way.I don't want to impose my wordview onto others.

If you really knew what you think you knew, your posts would not come across the way they do. If others here did not know something that you do not, they would not be able to see the difference. Your experiences are not that terribly different.


We realize that you are trying to make sense of those experiences , and are learning new things. That is wonderful. But, this post further reinforces how full your cup is, even if you think it is not. :)

 

[truth seeker]

We have same goal here that's important thing, and not if someone is different or having different experiences,but please tell me if you don't want me to write anymore about it and I really wont.But I wouldn't write about it in the first place if I didn't know there is objective Truth in them,at least some,and I simply wanted to share,for those who might find it usefull in some way.I don't want to impose my wordview onto others.

According to your last few posts, you haven't read the suggested thread on diet and you haven't read any books on narcissism. I'm not currently sure how much of The Wave you've read but according to what you've written, you insist that you 'know' your brother is an OP which says to me that there is a gap in your understanding of the material.

Based on this alone, it seems as if you read bits and pieces of some subjects and take the parts that you 'like' and discard the rest. That's not what this forum is about, however. This forum is about uncovering lies in all it's forms (particularly those we tell ourselves) regardless of how uncomfortable it is.

The problem isn't the posting of unusual experiences or even lack of understanding regarding the material. All that is basically par for the course here. The issue is that you trust your thinking to the extent that no true conversation can be had. In essence, you seem to not really be open to engaging with others but post with the hopes that others will agree with you.

No one is attacking you and no, I don't feel attacked. What is being pointed out to you is that in order to really learn on this forum, one should at the very least, be open to considering the feedback provided. Please note that being open doesn't mean agreeing but just that - being able to consider what others say. If you can't or don't wish to, that's fine as well, but unfortunately this wouldn't be the right forum for you.

I suggest that you read the forum guidelines if you wish to really understand what we're about here and decide if this is really where you want to be.

 

[Serendipity]

I've read forum guidelines and wave

Maybe you're right,so I'll be quiet from now on and read big five,life without bread and other,and continue with Work and EE, until I come to better understanding of my own thinking.

One last question,what do you think it's happening in what I described about my brother during the night?

Thank you for strict and honest responses and for you time