AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN INFECTION?

[Zar]

Oh well, I just read this by Laura. If you are interested ant22 you'll eventually come upon both protocols but doing the herbals seems like the way to go, unless you have very bad symptoms.

It should be mentioned that any of you who are able can contact Gaby privately via her website for a consultation and individual guidance through the protocol. You will see that her fees for forum members are very minimal as she considers this as part of her service to others. She can also guide you as to where and how to obtain the needed meds once you have decided on the protocol you wish to follow.

The Age of Metabolic Syndrome - Inflammatory Fat Is Worse Than Obesity | The Health Matrix

Thought I would report that I've finished the protocol and have moved to just taking herbal/vitamin/mineral supplements and things that break down/prevent biofilms.

Since I began taking the high doses of arginine, then adding high doses of glycine/NAC, I noticed that the flashes I was having in my eyes disappeared. Haven't seen one in a couple of weeks.

Am I "cured"? Well, I guess we'll see. I'm going to wait a month and then do a metro challenge to see if anything reacts.

One thing I do want to say: this was a miserable, even brutal, course of meds. But if it works, it is probably worth it in serious conditions. But believe me, you want to have a serious condition to justify doing it! Otherwise, I think the herbals might be the way to go! Also, there is the cost factor. For us, here, it wasn't that expensive because the meds are pretty cheap in our region. But for those in the US, trying to do this on your own dime is pretty costly.

For the entire 6 months you need (cost is fludan's):
75 grams of metronidazole = $178.
720 grams of hydroxychloroquine = @ $502 per 100 grams - about $3514.
90 grams of doxycycline = $250. {corrected, see my post below}
1 BU Nystatin = $227.

So, for a single individual, it's $5359. $4169(3169 with correction). And that's if you don't add in the other, rotating antibiotics such as Azithromycin and amoxicillin or something comparable.

The bottom line is: without a doctor, insurance, cheap meds, etc, it simply isn't practical for most people. It's not something you can start and then just quit if you run out of money, or you need to switch antibiotics. That could be more harmful to your health than just leaving it alone. So the better option might be to just do the herbals with some nystatin. Yes, you probably would have to do them for a year or longer, but that's not such a bad thing.

I was reading a book about biofilms - "Combating Biofilms: Why Your Antibiotics and Antifungals Fail: Solutions for Lyme Disease, Chronic Sinusitis, Pneumonia, Yeast Infections, Wounds, Ear ... Bad Breath, Cystic Fibrosis and Implants" - and he mentions a lot of interesting things including the fact that xylitol, erythritol, NAC and other things, actively break down biofilms. That might be why some people have such a "gassy" reaction to them. A lot of interesting data in there.

It's hard to say exactly how I feel yet because I think I really broke things down during the protocol. There just wasn't any time or space to take any good mineral supplements because minerals are said to interfere with the antibiotics, so I just set them aside mostly for the duration and now I'm busy remineralizing.

Can't stress enough the benefits of arginine and glycine/NAC along with Vitamin C and B complex. They really kept me going.

That being said I'm going to shut up and finish reading the entire thread before throwing opinions around.

 

[Ant22]

Thank you @Persej and @Zar! I guess I'll keep reading then!

Well, when it comes to the iodine, you might want to check this post of mine. It says that iodine in Lugol's form loses it's antibacterial potency in organic materials. It can still kill bacteria, but not as much as in inorganic environment. The same group released another scientific article this year about their promising novel iodine product, but as far as I know, you still cannot buy it. Hopefully they will release something soon.

So, I think that iodine still cannot replace antibiotic protocol. But maybe in the future.

That's really interesting, thank you for cross-posting Persej. Iodine did a good job with me for sure but some stubborn problems won't go away. After reading through this thread to find something for my mom I started to wonder if my own issues are bacteria related and that's why I'm interested in this protocol myself.

I'm also reading this thread since I'm trying to figure out if I can fix my heart issue(s), and maybe my memory since I had a certain episode that worries me in my early 20s. I'm on page 65 now and so far I don't think iodine can replace this protocol, as Persej mentioned.

This does sound a bit worrying Zar. I hope you do find your answers here. I don't know what specifically your issues are but my memory has significantly improved and brain fogs and fatigue lessened after I started to follow this protocol Renaissance recommended (for skin issues but I guess it exceeded the scope). I think intermittent fasting made the biggest difference in my case. But for me it's an ongoing thing, not a one off episode like in your case so it may not be relevant.

I'm not an expert in the health field at all but I wanted to mention that in case you haven't done it, it's best to do a heavy metal detox before you dive into this protocol. Not being able to sleep in also a symptom of heavy metals (lead/arsenic I think?). That being said heavy metals work well with critters so it's a matter of slowly removing each obstacle.

Yeah, I did get to the part where iron and heavy metals were mentioned. Coincidentally I let a whole bottle of DMSA at home. I'll discuss it with her. She's not someone who complains about pain, neither is she someone who asks for help. I guess it must be quite bad if she asked me to find her something that may work.

Oh well, I just read this by Laura. If you are interested ant22 you'll eventually come upon both protocols but doing the herbals seems like the way to go, unless you have very bad symptoms.

Hmmm, in the quotes you provided it says it's a 6 month protocol. The sources at the beginning of the thread say it's 6 weeks. I guess I'll figure it out as I read through the thread.

That being said I'm going to shut up and finish reading the entire thread before throwing opinions around.

It does help though.

 

[Laura]

I would reiterate that it is a brutal protocol and one thing I've learned since I did it was the damage that Cipro can do to connective tissues AND that some - maybe many or most - antibiotics CAN kill off your mtDNA!!! In fact, I wonder if some of the reactions know as Herxheimer might not be the dying of mtDNA???

 

[Ant22]

I would reiterate that it is a brutal protocol and one thing I've learned since I did it was the damage that Cipro can do to connective tissues AND that some - maybe many or most - antibiotics CAN kill off your mtDNA!!! In fact, I wonder if some of the reactions know as Herxheimer might not be the dying of mtDNA???

Oh dear And all of a sudden my excitement about it has protocol has significantly decreased. There's plenty of useful info in this thread so I'll go through it anyway but I'm not too sure I'd like to see mine or my mom's mtDNA damaged.

Q: (Perceval) Just on that iodine question, is it a suitable substitute for the previous protocol of metro, etc.?

A: Perhaps a bit better, but the antibiotics were not counterproductive. You have been led, or led yourselves to discover what was needed as it was needed.

Q: (L) So a certain period of antibiotic therapy in cases of serious conditions is useful if it's also followed by or undertaken in conjunction with, say, iodine therapy?

A: Yes

Q: (L) The only problem is that when you're doing the antibiotic therapy, you can't do all the minerals. And it also cancels the iodine, so you have to either build yourself up with iodine first and then do it, or follow it.

A: Yes

Interesting, a lot to consider I guess.

 

[Laura]

Just make darn sure that this is what you need and go about it with research and some guidance. The right antibiotics can do a good job, but the wrong ones can destroy your body and your life.

 

[Persej]

Just make darn sure that this is what you need and go about it with research and some guidance. The right antibiotics can do a good job, but the wrong ones can destroy your body and your life.

Speaking about destroying life, my neighbor became deaf after taking one antibiotic.

 

[Zar]

Finally finished, and I must say this autoiummune protocol is scary, and not for me(I think/pretty sure). I"ll focus on checking my heavy metal content, balancing my gut bacteria for starters, and will keep researching. Thanks for all this information everyone, quite a the can of worms this has been.

 

[Laura]

I think that detoxing metals with something like DMSA or EDTA and taking NAC regularly to break up biofilms, is a lot more gentle approach. Yeah, it takes time, but it took time to get messed up, too!

 

[Zar]

I think that detoxing metals with something like DMSA or EDTA and taking NAC regularly to break up biofilms, is a lot more gentle approach. Yeah, it takes time, but it took time to get messed up, too!

My thoughts exactly, I don't have any autoimmune symptoms (not that it's a perfect indication that I don't have critters) and I'm not going anywhere so I'll try the slow and steady method.

 

[Breo]

I came across 2 different sets of interesting products that focus on the various causes behind autoimmune diseases: systemic inflammation due to infection and toxins (eg. Glyphosate, more on Sott.net: The Health & Wellness Show: Interview with Brilliant Researcher Dr. Stephanie Seneff)

I use some of these products since several months with surprising success, while many other approaches failed to open my toxic blocks and detox pathways.

Both approaches are based on a low dose application of natural substances. So basically there are no side effects.

1. The SANUM-KEHLBECK products are based on the research of Prof. Günther Enderlein (1872-1968) who was a German zoologist and entomologist. He researched on the concept of the pleomorphism of microorganisms.

About Enderleins work there are a lot of biased articles. But after reading Marshall Perry, Evolution 2.0, the pleomorphism concept makes a lot of sense.

Enderlein´s view is that disease is based on the cycle that microorganisms develop from a nonpathogenic into a pathogenic form if the healthy balance of their host/environment is disturbed. He writes: „A healthy symbiont with e.g. beneficial enzymatic and metabolic properties morphs into a pathogen causing systemic inflammation/intoxication. Symbionts turn into parasites.“

The products Enderlein developed, focus on how to morph back the pathogen into their healthy state: symbionts->pathogenic bacteria/virus/fungus->symbiont, e.g. like yeast turning into toxic candida and reversing this development.

My personal example: Since a long time I am dealing with a chronic inflammation/infection of my jaw bones due to mercury. Now I started to use one of their products, NotaKehl topical cream and suppositories which are made of a homeopathic delusion of Penicillium chrysogenum. My experience is very positive, a noticable decline of the inflammation and pains. No side effects. (Now I start to experiment combining this with Quinton water which seems to add potency.)

See: Sanum
(Unfortunately much more to read in German.)

2. Then there is Bio Immune Gene (modulation) Medicine, BIGMED and their natural products are based on combining immunology, genetics and epigenetics.

It was developed 2010 by Dr. Gilbert Glady: „It is a further development in microimmune therapy where low dose information is transmitted to the immunesystem and genome to regulate them.“

From them I use: eg. VirReg, InfectReg, InflamReg and some more. Again with a noticable decline in symptoms and no sideeffects.

(Unfortunatly here too most of the existing online material is in German.)

In November I will participate in an intro course with Dr. Glady and will be happy to report some more information of what I will be learning.

See: EBMA Europe BI(G)MED, European Bio Immune(G)ene Medecine Association
BIGMed - Bio-Immun-Gen-Medizin

For those who are interested: both companies offer test kit boxes of all their products. These then could be taken to a kinesiologist to find out which remedies work best individually.

I hope this info adds to the general research in this thread on how to deal with the causes of autoimmunity.
FWIW.

 

[zak]

I was pretty sick those last time to need to take some antibiotics, and i was searching some reasonable counterparts in some threads
in the forum about probiotics as Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG and other probiotics and
What's in your Probiotic? among others.
Then i decided to feed my intestinal flora with a complex of Acidophilus/Streptococcus T/Lactobacillus R and S/Bifidobactarium B.
And in reading this article ¿Debería tomar probióticos cuando está en un tratamiento con antibióticos? -- Sott.net on spanish Sott, you have here the english version New Discovery Turns Typical Probiotic Advice on Its Head
And again following the links in the article i arrived to something of interest, but before take a look again to this Gandalf's post:

Video about biofilms:

http://<iframe width="560" height="...pM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It seems that the reason because we climb it's because we cannot fly, until that we climb enough high and finally fall,
and maybe in falling from so high you don't have other choice than fly, or at least to find a solution to not crash, or at the last of the least of the list, the only way to fly is to be crashed... well after this funny consideration let's go to what's bring me in this thread:

The Importance of Healthy Biofilm

If you take your probiotics after a meal, your stomach's pH will be slightly elevated, allowing some to survive, but you're still unlikely to get even 25 percent of the stated units of the product.

"For [probiotics] to become active and actually work for you, they have to germinate. That's number one. They start to germinate in the small intestine, and then they have to establish residency. That means they have to actually talk to the other microbes and be accepted by them. The other species basically have to welcome them and have to agree to a certain number of them so they can establish themselves there. ​

Because the bacillus species is a regular innate inhabitant of our normal bowel flora, the spores, once they [germinate], are fully accepted into the community of our resident gut microbiome, and unfold the property of their symbiotic contribution in the gut that way … [T]he research is very clear that the spores, when they … germinate, establish permanent residency for their lifespan, and start replicating in the gut … ​

By the way, the bacillus spores tend to also be very actively involved in creating healthy biofilm, and I think this is important for people to know, because biofilm has gotten such a bad rep recently. All our resident microbes have a blueprint of themselves and leave a germinating layer in healthy biofilm, which lines the entire gut … [P]athogenic biofilm is a whole different animal, but we have to be careful with the insane strategies to destroy all biofilm. ​

Healthy gut microbes have a blueprint of themselves lining the entire gut in biofilm, and the bacillus is very involved in creating healthy biofilm. The biofilm is [like] a nursery for the [microbes] we need to help break down our food, metabolize it, talk to the immune system, creating immune tolerance and all that."​

​

To have the whole context of this quote and the health of your nervous system you can read the rest of the article here How Spore Probiotics Can Help Reverse Chronic Disease​

Also i found some threads in the forum talking about Klinghardt works, so i am going to put some more in the following:
Autonomic Response Testing Laws
http://www.klinghardtacademy.com/im...ng/Klinghardt_Article_5_Levels_of_Healing.pdf

 

[whitecoast]

I wanted to ask for some opinions about whether the efficacy of autohemotherapy is comparable to the antibiotic blitzkriegs described earlier on in this thread. There's a few people in this thread who suspect some of their health problems have to do with infections, but were hesitant about trying the antibiotic protocols in this thread because of how intensive a process it is. Doing AHT definitely requires intentional suffering, but in other respects it's easier than adhering to a strict daily pharmaceutical protocol. But in terms of fighting critters, does it do some of the work of the antibiotic protocol, relatively the same amount of work, or greater (due to its specificity)?

 

[Galaxia2002]

I wanted to ask for some opinions about whether the efficacy of autohemotherapy is comparable to the antibiotic blitzkriegs described earlier on in this thread. There's a few people in this thread who suspect some of their health problems have to do with infections, but were hesitant about trying the antibiotic protocols in this thread because of how intensive a process it is. Doing AHT definitely requires intentional suffering, but in other respects it's easier than adhering to a strict daily pharmaceutical protocol. But in terms of fighting critters, does it do some of the work of the antibiotic protocol, relatively the same amount of work, or greater (due to its specificity)?

I would say that doing it myself from time ago, it works alone and slowly for acne like cysts but I suppose that any kind of antibiotic protocol would be shortened by the boosting AHT gives and bacterial resistance very reduced. I will say go for AHT alone if a chronic infection is suspected and you find a person that can help you with this, checking your progress and your symptoms and if no progress is achieved after a reasonable time, then maybe think in antibiotics combined with AHT, but I would avoid antibiotics if I could.
You also can try AHT with natural antibiotics like oregano oil, caprylic acid, Lauricidin, and plants, but this depends specifically on the kind of bug you have and if those substances have some activity against them.

 

[Laura]

I agree with Galaxia; AHT may be "slower", but it is also less damaging. A possible adjunct would be perhaps lower dose doxycycline.

 

[Ant22]

Doing AHT definitely requires intentional suffering, but in other respects it's easier than adhering to a strict daily pharmaceutical protocol.

I wouldn't say AHT feels like a form of intentional suffering to me. Sure, it was hard at the beginning because I always used to be very scared of needles. The very first question I would hear when I had blood work done was "are you going to faint?" or "would you prefer to lie down while we do it?". My facial expression must have said it all. I still don't know how I actually managed to do it on my own but I guess desperation is a very effective motivational tool

After 3 months of weekly 10ml shots I have what feels like AHT cravings. Doing the last couple of shots I was quite surprised with the sensation of almost greediness to get as much blood as possible and watching the blood flow through the tube was a weirdly satisfying feeling. It may sound strange but although I can't say I enjoy the process, I really look forward to each shot now.

I was looking into the antibiotics protocol for my Mom but she decided not to try it. Around 6 weeks ago I got a text from her husband that she finally took the plunge and they're both doing AHT now. So far so good but I guess it's too early to tell if it's working for her or not. She's at 8ml now and I get a text from them after each round so I know they're diligent about it. I'll drop a line if she notices anything worth mentioning.