Before I leave my country Japan...

[Guardian]

Sorry to disagree with most of you here, but I think this situation needs more thought than just "get the heck out of there!"

Aya, does your family live in Japan? Are they "safe" there, all things considered? Is there anything you could do to help them?

In your situation, I would only move to a place within Japan from which I could help. I would never forgive myself if I left someone who is asking for help, only to be safe myself. (Are they asking? - that's another story)

When everything is lost, and you have no possibility to help others, that's one thing. But right now a lot of people have no shelter, no food, no help from the government, plus the nuclear threat. Isn't there something you can do from there?

I gotta go with Ailen on this one, there are worse things than dying....MUCH worse. I think surviving while your loved ones perish is one of them. I've also found that when you concentrate on helping others, what you need to do so is always there when you need it. Fear is normal, even helpful in some situations, but I don't let it make decisions for me.

If I were in your shoes (and I was when a Cat 4 hurricane hit the Surry Nuclear Reactors) I would make a detailed, written list of ALL my available options, then pick the one that benefits my family, friends, and community the most and go for it with everything I've got. In a crisis, I concentrate on the NOW...not the multiple "maybes" of the future. Maybe a comet will land on our heads tomorrow, but for today, everyone within my reach is warm, has a full belly, and they know they're loved. One day spent helping others is worth a lifetime of saving my own butt...OSIT.

 

[The rabbit]

Sorry to disagree with most of you here, but I think this situation needs more thought than just "get the heck out of there!"

Aya, does your family live in Japan? Are they "safe" there, all things considered? Is there anything you could do to help them? [Added: obviously, the government is downplaying the danger, so they probably don't even know about it, and yoo can't trust the authorities to help them.]

In your situation, I would only move to a place within Japan from which I could help. I would never forgive myself if I left someone who is asking for help, only to be safe myself. (Are they asking? - that's another story)

When everything is lost, and you have no possibility to help others, that's one thing. But right now a lot of people have no shelter, no food, no help from the government, plus the nuclear threat. Isn't there something you can do from there?

Honestly, if you leave, will you be able to say that you did something to help? Whatever was in your hands?

The world is burning, and the only thing "good" about crises is when people get together in true solidarity. But in this case, embassies from all over the world are helping their expats go back home instead of helping the Japanese people. Do French, Mexican, etc. lives have more value than the Japanese? That really makes me angry. It is playing with lives, and the world is turning its back to Japan.

It is really a difficult decision. But IMO you need to think about these things too before deciding to leave. Whatever you decide will be right when you have considered what is right, what is wrong, and the specific situation.

FWIW,

Completely agree with this. My particular response was caught up in the kind of sensationalism , action film kind of the way to react.Thats not real.My apologies.
Life is not so simple .You will know what the right move is when you are not acting out of fear , panic etc

There is a good reason for the fear , but the alarm bell has to be turned off now so you can think clearly and act accordingly! Thats not easy for some /most?

If you leave out of fear for your life
So be it

If you leave because there is no other choice.
So be it

The same applies should you choose to stay.

It surely is not going to be easy that´s for sure and i wish you health , strength and love in your personal struggle.

 

[Chu]

Sorry to disagree with most of you here, but I think this situation needs more thought than just "get the heck out of there!"

Aya, does your family live in Japan? Are they "safe" there, all things considered? Is there anything you could do to help them?

In your situation, I would only move to a place within Japan from which I could help. I would never forgive myself if I left someone who is asking for help, only to be safe myself. (Are they asking? - that's another story)

When everything is lost, and you have no possibility to help others, that's one thing. But right now a lot of people have no shelter, no food, no help from the government, plus the nuclear threat. Isn't there something you can do from there?

I gotta go with Ailen on this one, there are worse things than dying....MUCH worse. I think surviving while your loved ones perish is one of them. I've also found that when you concentrate on helping others, what you need to do so is always there when you need it. Fear is normal, even helpful in some situations, but I don't let it make decisions for me.

If I were in your shoes (and I was when a Cat 4 hurricane hit the Surry Nuclear Reactors) I would make a detailed, written list of ALL my available options, then pick the one that benefits my family, friends, and community the most and go for it with everything I've got. In a crisis, I concentrate on the NOW...not the multiple "maybes" of the future. Maybe a comet will land on our heads tomorrow, but for today, everyone within my reach is warm, has a full belly, and they know they're loved. One day spent helping others is worth a lifetime of saving my own butt...OSIT.

Yes, but, well, on the other hand, I don't think I expressed myself correctly and I apologize. I don't thing being "martyrs" helps either. We have example after example in our world of how humanitarian causes fail because of ponerization anyway.

The point is: the situation is really tragic, for lack of a better word. A lot of people are leaving just to save their skin and don't even stop to think about others. I do think that at this point the best thing for those who can IS leave, because there is probably nothing a single human being can really do. It is far beyond our scope when something like this happen.

BUT, leaving shouldn't be based on fear and "I'm getting the heck out of here" and not stopping to think about it. The only thing that can save Aya and others in similar situations is, for example, to realize (after looking and asking) that this is the way things are, that nobody around you wants help, that their trust their government more than they trust your opinion. When you see that, then you know it's time to leave because nobody wants help anyway.

We are obviously lacking a lot of data about Aya's situation, so I trust that she had thought about these things. All I'm saying is that when we are supposed to act based on knowledge, if we leave, we also have to know WHY we leave, and do it because it's right, and not for selfish reasons.

FWIW.

 

[Risen]

...........

If you leave out of fear for your life
So be it

If you leave because there is no other choice.
So be it

The same applies should you choose to stay.

It surely is not going to be easy that´s for sure and i wish you health , strength and love in your personal struggle.

If you leave because you have considered the options and you know it is the right decision, so be it! None of us know what your situation is exactly. Yes you may be able to help others in Japan, but the Universe may have other plans for you and you may be of more help elsewhere or in Japan in the future. Leaving does not automatically mean you are being STS. You have been given lots of good advice and reasons to stay or leave but ultimately the decision is yours alone to make. God bless you and good luck whatever you decide.

*edited spelling

 

[John G]

The US has started evacuations of American citizens and other countries are advising their citizens to leave, so I think leaving is rapidly becoming a thing for lots of people to do. If a decent number of people left early before things get really bad, that would make it easier to get lots of people out fast if that's needed. Hopefully things don't get really bad.

 

[Atreides]

I still stand by what I said earlier, when I recommended to Aya to leave.

The points made by Ailen are valid and important, of course she should warn others, but certainly not like "Repent! The end is nigh!" It's enough to say, "I am leaving, and you should too, just for a short while, just for a little vacation to get away and see friends." This is where things like perspicacity and being "as wise as a serpent" comes in. If you really want to save people, then setting the right example will do more good than handing out soup and blankets.

Sacrificing yourself may seem all noble, but really, when you demonstrate to others that blind optimism in the face of catastrophe is good, all you do is make it that much easier for them to kill themselves, their families, their children etc. Remember social proof? That thing we all talk about?

Sometimes surviving is the hardest thing you can do, dissociating in some hero fantasy is easy.

You can't save a fish from water, you can't rescue people who don't want to be rescued, and if you try, they will just drag you down with them. You have no idea how bad these people can be. I wouldn't be surprised if the government started suppressing nay sayers, locking them up as loonies just for saying things are bad. You have to think like this, welcome to the real world, there are bad people, they have no foresight and will insist that others have none either.

I am surprised Aya is even still in Japan. It's harsh to say this but your first duty is to survive, you can't help anyone if you are dead. Early Christian history is replete with crazy martyrs who really believed that by pushing the envelope and getting crucified they were guaranteed eternal bliss.

Is this really any different?

If you stay and help, when even the Authorities in that country appear to be actively screwing it up, just like the Authorities in the Gulf actively screwed that up, what is it going to get you but dead? Can you be really honest about why you are doing it?

Does the world really need more martyrs? Dead men don't tell tales, and we need people who can speak out and speak up. No one is going to hear you through six feet of mud. How quickly do they forget?

So get out if you can, even if nothing really bad happens, just think of it as a change of scenery. You don't need to be fatalistic about it. Just go, somewhere else. And yeah, if it's bad, you are gonna feel sorry for the rest of your life. In the end, it's a lot better than feeling sorry that your skin is melting off for the rest of your very short life. You lose people you love through life, that's unavoidable, it's just the way of things.

People can talk and talk about how "we all die" and "there's nothing to fear from death", I notice that they always say this from a comfortable distance from real crises.

When you're in the shit, the only thing that should matter to a sane person is getting out of the shit. Aya is in the thick of things, I think the last thing she needs is a guilt trip and reality check about the bigger picture, or the meaning of life. She needs support for doing something very hard and scary, surviving.

So run Aya, ruuuunnn! Faster pussycat.

 

[Joe]

Yes, but, well, on the other hand, I don't think I expressed myself correctly and I apologize. I don't thing being "martyrs" helps either. We have example after example in our world of how humanitarian causes fail because of ponerization anyway.

The point is: the situation is really tragic, for lack of a better word. A lot of people are leaving just to save their skin and don't even stop to think about others. I do think that at this point the best thing for those who can IS leave, because there is probably nothing a single human being can really do. It is far beyond our scope when something like this happen.

BUT, leaving shouldn't be based on fear and "I'm getting the heck out of here" and not stopping to think about it. The only thing that can save Aya and others in similar situations is, for example, to realize (after looking and asking) that this is the way things are, that nobody around you wants help, that their trust their government more than they trust your opinion. When you see that, then you know it's time to leave because nobody wants help anyway.

We are obviously lacking a lot of data about Aya's situation, so I trust that she had thought about these things. All I'm saying is that when we are supposed to act based on knowledge, if we leave, we also have to know WHY we leave, and do it because it's right, and not for selfish reasons.

FWIW.

I agree with Ailén says here. Taking action should, whenever possible, be based on as much knowledge of any situation as possible. Otherwise we risk getting ourselves into bigger problems through "knee-jerk" reactions. If we assume that Aya is making this decision based on the knowledge she has accumulated about the reality of what is happening on our planet, then it is, in a way, based on conscious faith in that knowledge.

On faith Gurdjieff said:

"Conscious faith is freedom, Emotional Faith is slavery, Mechanical faith is foolishness."

There is a chance, I suppose, that Aya is deciding to leave based on an emotional reason, which would not be the best idea because it implies that she is probably missing some important considerations. To leave like all the rest would be based on "mechanical faith" and would also leave her open to potential unseen problems. Only if she is leaving based on a decision made with consciousness and full awareness of all angles, can she hope to have a chance of making the right decision for all concerned.

 

[andi]

Parents won't leave their parents behind and grandparents wont leave their liefs and their nephews behind. After a certain age, they will be martyrs and won't leave even if it means death. It is because staying is the only life they have. How is that helping them-selfs and those who want and know better?
So what is for Aya to do?

What Ailen is saying is very true, but like Artreides is pointing, when there is a hole in the boat, the boat is full and there is no way to repair the hole - then telling people that you are going to jump and make it to the shore and why you are doing it - is the only example one can give in my view.



edit: I've looked at my parents liefs now that they have made the decision to come to Canada. It is bad for them here. The mind has problems to let go.
Most probably, the elderly ones are not even going to move away from their house where they leave now, even less to a distant country.

 

[andi]

You know, what kind of parents and friends would not want those they love to leave in such situations?
Even if Aya does not make a conscious decision now, based on what Perceval is saying -who is to say she will not see it later.

 

[agni]

Ailen, I see what you are saying.

I am far from knowing details of Aya situation, but realistically speaking, I was going to ask (not you necessarily), what are the practical ways help can be given considering resources at hand ? Volunteering ?

No one knows what is going to happen. If contamination happens, help from within is not going to be of much use, other then comforting people. The only viable option IMHO would be to relocate people and provide them with all of the necessities, at least until/if nuclear situation is contained. It's might be just little bit too late doing it after the fact without significant unrepairable damage to health.

The whole situation pi$$es me off. What kind of arrogant $marta$$ it takes to build and keep building something that can not be well contained without causing harm to people ?

PTB as always expects regular folks to sacrifice their lives, so their kind or who the approve of can live. When there is a stop to it ? In this situation to me it seems like a controlled attempt in extermination of people with empathy, the ones that care about others.

 

[luke wilson]

Surprisingly I have had this discussion with my mother, and according to her, she would prefer to die with everyone else than live alone. So, for example, if she was in japan and the rest of her family was there, she wouldnt leave.

In my opinion, Aya, I think you should leave. Like as soon as possible. If only for acouple of weeks. In these things, there is no 2nd chance. You have a window and when it closes, it closes. Chances are, everything will be fine. They will get everything under control. What Japan has suffered is unimaginable. It is almost worst case scenario. No one is thinkin it can get any worse, eg. fullblown meltdown or another major earthquake, maybe it is a possibility in people's thoughts, but no one is really thinking it will happen. Basically the logic is, the country is now on the road to recover and the tragedy is over etc. Maybe a minor meltdown etc to contend with etc. But, it might be that the unimaginable might happen and you had a chance to get away, and you didnt or wasted time.

Just my 2 cents.

EDIT Another possible angle to look at it, is you have a chance to leave. What about those who do not? Some people might want to leave but they might not have the means or anywhere to go. They might not know anyone outside Japan etc. You on the other hand know someone outside Japan and you have the means and chance to leave. Just another angle to look at things.

 

[Guardian]

I agree with Ailén says here. Taking action should, whenever possible, be based on as much knowledge of any situation as possible.

Exactly!!! I remember when Three Mile Island melted down...at the time we were about 200 miles to the south of it as the crow flies and people were terrified. Fear ruled instead of logic, so serious mistakes were made.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Aya stay in a hot zone...but Japan is a BIG country, about the size of California, and its west coast is looking pretty clear right now. Evacuating the immediate danger zone doesn't necessarily mean leaving the country and family / loved ones behind....which sounds like a serous concern for her? It also looks like the prevailing winds are currently carrying the radiation plume AWAY from Japan and towards the US West Coast.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/16/science/plume-graphic.html?ref=science

I'm just saying that in ANY emergency, gather as much information as you can and look at ALL available options....everything from flying to Canada to getting truck and taking everybody you can fit in it a few hundred miles up wind. An STO path is NEVER more difficult to follow than when faced with a serious, immediate threat to self.

Self preservation is a basic human instinct, and there should certainly be NO "guilt" for having it ...but when we let it rule us, we can make choices that we later regret. Now's the time to breath deep and think hard before acting.

My heart goes out to you Aya, and if there's anything you need that I can provide...it's yours. I'm too far away to offer much except research and data...but if that would help you make these VERY difficult decisions just let me know.

 

[jordifs]

I have been told the military is surrounding the main island and firing at people that try to leave by ship.
This is serious.

Where have you heard about this from?

Good luck Aya!

Kniall,

a friend said to me near in time by phone. He received the information via chat directly from a Japanese person.
Nonetheless as you can see this I received indirectly not from the source.
Hope this is a misunderstanding or an exaggeration.
Nonetheless I understand that let millions of citizens leave the country could be a threat to others.
C's commented on scripts that mass exodus may occur on California ... so I perceive the same "type of event" (mass exodus) is dangerous if not controlled.
Control = By force = Military.
May the future clarify this issue.

 

[Guardian]

Parents won't leave their parents behind and grandparents wont leave their liefs and their nephews behind. After a certain age, they will be martyrs and won't leave even if it means death. It is because staying is the only life they have. How is that helping them-selfs and those who want and know better?
So what is for Aya to do?

Hot wire an abandoned bus and take the whole family to safety?

Of course this might not be a viable option, only Aya can make these decisions, but my point is that when you concentrate on ways to REALLY save others...you usually survive in the process too. It just kinda works out that way.

My advice, for whatever it's worth, is that when disaster strikes, don't follow the herd...THINK outside the box. Focus on saving as many people as you can, and if you succeed, you'll be sitting right there with them when it's all over.

 

[Aya]

Thank you everyone!

So, I decided to leave here(Chiba,Japan) this weekend (the latest). I haven't bought a ticket yet.

Have you gotten your ticket yet or looked for one? A friend of a friend is stuck in Japan and I just got a message from my friend telling me that the tickets to leave Japan sky-rocked, with the cheapest ticket starting at $5000. I don't know if that is entirely true, but you you may want to get on it asap, if you haven't already.

Last night, I got a ticket to go to Toronto, Canada. It didn't cost as bad as I expected but all the direct flights were gone. I booked the one that I need to transfer through the US and I had no other choice. I am leaving on Sunday so I still have some time to pack and make a final decision.

I haven't told anything about this to my work yet. Figuring out how to say about this kind of thing is the most difficult part even though all I have to say is the truth in honestly.

I know enough people and have enough savings to stay temporary in Canada for 2-3weeks. I can wait and see how everything turns out and decide when to come back.

Today I went to work and everything started looking lot more “normal” than after the whole incident. However, at my work, we had to conserve the power so that we were working in a really cold dark place. It was another busy day. I was all-day serving my customers and thinking where they were going and what they were going to do. I left work early to catch my trains before they stop because of the blackout. I made it home safe.

We didn’t feel big earthquakes during the day. Though, we had 2 strong ones at night.
..Right now I feel more urgency to leave here….while I am typing this, I can feel the vibrations and the rattle-shakes from the deep inside of the ground. It feels weird. It seems like the whole plates are moving far underneath of the earth and building up until the point of “BANG!”

Aya, does your family live in Japan? Are they "safe" there, all things considered? Is there anything you could do to help them?

I am living with my family. Some of my relatives are living close to where the nuclear plant is. I don’t know for sure if it’s safe here. Because I am not sure about 100% safty, I still think that there is a danger.

What can I do for them? Right now I keep telling my families and friends about the danger of situation. I am enough aware myself that I have no scientific knowledge about radiation and earthquakes to explain it to my family. But I feel earthquakes everyday (and it’s not happening in only one place but everywhere in east Japan), see losing power in cities (cities are turning to dark and cold), and watch the news about radiation (the radiation exposure hasn’t stopped and we have no idea when to stop). =another consideration is the price of food, spread of toxins, people’s mental health,etc etc.

But my biggest concern is those 3.
1 Another Earthquake 2 Blackout no power 3Nuclear and Radiation

1-3 are happening at the same time. If it gets worse, all of them get worse.
I think escaping here is the best move….

I have told my family & friends about the danger of the situation. Expectedly, my family doesn’t want to go anywhere but to stay. They are more concerned about their work, and they trust everything what’s on TV. They think that the amount of radiation exposure is not as danger to take it seriously. Or perhaps they have fear leaving outside of country even if they like to take vacations. Or they think that I am reacting crazy and hoping that things are going to be okay.

My father, for him the end of the world is when the Japanese society collapse.
My mother, she still have her faith in the country. I think she thinks that “Everything will be bad for while but after it will be all better.”
My sister, she is very concerned about her new job from April. “I wanna go to a trip but I can’t coz I have to prepare for moving in my new apartment!”

I love my family. I do. But what else can I do?? I knew how they were going to answer even before I suggested them to evacuate.

There is a chance, I suppose, that Aya is deciding to leave based on an emotional reason, which would not be the best idea because it implies that she is probably missing some important considerations. To leave like all the rest would be based on "mechanical faith" and would also leave her open to potential unseen problems. Only if she is leaving based on a decision made with consciousness and full awareness of all angles, can she hope to have a chance of making the right decision for all concerned.

I think what Perceval says is right. I am not fully aware of if I am considering all the factors. I am missing something and might find out later what it was. I am going to try to keep my eyes open as much as I can.

When everything is lost, and you have no possibility to help others, that's one thing. But right now a lot of people have no shelter, no food, no help from the government, plus the nuclear threat. Isn't there something you can do from there?

Honestly, if you leave, will you be able to say that you did something to help? Whatever was in your hands?

The world is burning, and the only thing "good" about crises is when people get together in true solidarity.
It is really a difficult decision. But IMO you need to think about these things too before deciding to leave. Whatever you decide will be right when you have considered what is right, what is wrong, and the specific situation.

If I leave, will I be able to say that I did something to help? Whatever was in my hands? No…but I am not leaving here entirely. I am hoping to come back and help others when I can. I feel it’s an emergency. “If I cannot help myself, I cannot help others.”

The point is: the situation is really tragic, for lack of a better word. A lot of people are leaving just to save their skin and don't even stop to think about others. I do think that at this point the best thing for those who can IS leave, because there is probably nothing a single human being can really do. It is far beyond our scope when something like this happen.

BUT, leaving shouldn't be based on fear and "I'm getting the heck out of here" and not stopping to think about it. The only thing that can save Aya and others in similar situations is, for example, to realize (after looking and asking) that this is the way things are, that nobody around you wants help, that their trust their government more than they trust your opinion. When you see that, then you know it's time to leave because nobody wants help anyway.

We are obviously lacking a lot of data about Aya's situation, so I trust that she had thought about these things. All I'm saying is that when we are supposed to act based on knowledge, if we leave, we also have to know WHY we leave, and do it because it's right, and not for selfish reasons.

If nobody wrote to me, it didn’t even occur to me to leave my home. It’s very hard in the beginning when I felt the urgency to leave. Because I knew how much it would be hard to convince my family & friends to do so. It’s free will. So far, nobody who I have talked wants to come with me. I will probably be flying alone again.

One thing - bring essential documents with you. A few of past bills, bank statements etc. Things that will prove your residence, income and bill history. School and birth certificates, etc.

Thank you everyone for posting. I feel little more courageous and happy.

:)