Body by Science / HIIT Experiment

Harmony99

Padawan Learner
I started BBS in October working out every 7 to 9 days. I normaly do my push ups to warm up before starting. I think this is one of the best thing i have done for myself last year. I work out a few times with my two teenage boys.They also echo the same sentiments. I have reduced my morning walk from two days per week to one. I have almost discontinued my weekly yoga practice.Yoga practice was done 2 or 3 times per week.i hope to incorporate yoga at least once per week to achieve a good balance.
 

Starshine

Jedi Master
Someone mentioned Trauma Release exercises presented in this video:
Can't find the post but anyway, it's been twice that I decided to give it a go right after HIT. This 'generic stress release' really is something.
It makes you shake like crazy for a few minutes, and then it stops naturally. It's a good way to combine the two since you already are muscularly exhausted right after a session.
Last time I had HIT then cold all-along shower and TRE. the sensation right after was close to having a sauna.
 

Goemon_

Jedi Master
Can't find the post but anyway, it's been twice that I decided to give it a go right after HIT. This 'generic stress release' really is something.
It makes you shake like crazy for a few minutes, and then it stops naturally. It's a good way to combine the two since you already are muscularly exhausted right after a session.
Last time I had HIT then cold all-along shower and TRE. the sensation right after was close to having a sauna.
There is at least this thread: Trauma Releasing Exercises / Exercices de "déblocage" des traumas
 

Starshine

Jedi Master
I finished reading BBS two days ago. I really enjoyed the science given in this book, it really motivates you to keep your muscles working throughout the years. There are so much health benefits presented along with the clear explanations of muscle physiology, insulin sensitivity, metabolic activity and genetic particularities that it feels like a real reality check.
I liked the chapter about seniors too, where he mentions there's no reason you cannot keep on doing HIT exercises and the logic behind muscle atrophy and hypothermia. I really feel like I gained a better understanding of the body through it.

Meanwhile, I kept doing body weight HIT exercises. While reading the book, I understood the need to add weight progressively and to not stress out so much if you miss a week. And I've noted it can be beneficial, as I've skipped it for two weeks recently, and felt stronger when coming back at it.
I bought a weighted vest and began using it last week. I think the coming months will be full of experimentation.

Searching for more examples of body weight HIT, I found some controversy around HIT, and Mike Mentzer on french body-building forums. I didn't give it much attention, but it seems like this type of workout is not much appreciated, boring and sub-optimal for some. Understanding the science behind and the genetic components involved, others results are not much relevant to your own unique physiology in the end.

I don't remember seeing this video posted here, Doug McGuff explains "20 years after Ultimate Exercise Bulletin 1, I reflect upon the Stimulus-Organism-Response equation and how the relative contributions of each component have been revealed over time. "

Basically, he updates his views regarding body weight exercises and even comes to advocate the book project Kratos by Drew Baye.

An extract, starting at 09:20:
...
The organism is going to be the major determinant of what the adaptive response looks like, that is the most important thing and what that further means is that all this attention we've paid on the stimulus side of the equation i wouldn't say has been wasted but it's been way...way over emphasized.

So what we have learned through decades of novels, through decades of different protocols, through decades of protocol refinements and further equipment refinements to meet those specific protocols is that...we never really changed the magnitude of what happened over here (Response) we effected the efficiency we effected the safety but the actual outcome is really no different

So the downside of this is that i think a lot of people are realizing this on a subconscious level and the drive to produce more and more refined equipment that's better and better is slowly fading away combined with the Crossfit culture that is now convinced to everyone in the world that the better way to train is to be the tire with a sledge hammer than it is to use a sophisticated piece of equipment that maximize- muscular loading.

But regardless of that I think it's also empowering to know that you don't have to have the perfect equipment and the perfect protocol that you can get by with equipment that is less than perfect you can get by with sub optimal equipment and by the time you've gotten the sub optimal or bad equipment you start to realize that you can get by even better with no equipment if you look at the writing and videos on YouTube of Dr. Ted Naiman and the freehand workout that he does and the physical results that he produces you can understand that equipment's not even necessary.

I would highly encourage anyone that's interested to purchase the book project Kratos by Drew Baye at baye.com because that will show you how you can use modify freehand exercise to deliver a magnitude of stimulus that you can't get even with the best equipment sometimes but certainly with suboptimal or poor equipment but that's the reassuring thing is you don't need anything fancy and the most important thing is just to get started the reason is whatever stimulus you bring to the organism, the organism is smart, it has evolved its ability to adapt over millions and millions of years and under new horrible different circumstances which is why there can be so many arguments in the field of exercise about what's the best program because the organism is so adaptable that can take almost any program and produce some sort of response.

So the important thing to know is let's say you've read body by science, let's say you've read power of 10, where you know any of the other good books on high intensity training there you've read the Ken Hutchins works or Mike Mentzer's works you want to do it just right you don't have to do it just right just get started just give it your best trial give it a good hard effort and something will happen over here(response) because this organism has had millions of years to figure out what to do so read what you can educate yourself the best way you can get on the best equipment you can but even if it's no equipment just do it so that a stimulus is brought and also the reassuring thing about this is that the more we refine the stimulus the more chance we have of generating a stimulus that's difficult to recover from.

...
 

nicklebleu

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Thanks for posting the video, Starshine, very interesting indeed!

I watched the video that followed that one, that google served me, and it was also very interesting. It’s a video by Drew Baye. He talks about the mistakes that a lot of people do with exercise, the main ones being training not hard enough, doing too much in one session, and not having enough recovery time. He also questions a lot of assumptions that are commonly held in the training commnity.

 

Scottie

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I watched the video that followed that one, that google served me, and it was also very interesting. It’s a video by Drew Baye. He talks about the mistakes that a lot of people do with exercise, the main ones being training not hard enough, doing too much in one session, and not having enough recovery time. He also questions a lot of assumptions that are commonly held in the training commnity.
Well... I have come to some updated conclusions recently regarding the "best" workout.

I had been doing the BBS workout, but I noticed that in addition to plateauing, it just didn't seem to be doing much good anymore.

Then I began to do the Arkigong / Kung Chu 6 days a week, and interesting things happened.

First, some muscles that had become a bit flabby (literally) turned back into muscle by doing Qigong. That reminded me that in the past, I used to do a full workout with weights once a week, and then almost every day I'd do basic exercises like pushups and sit-ups (until failure).

Second, the other day I went running, and WOW, I felt really strong and stable. I hadn't run since beginning Qigong 6 weeks ago (or whatever).

Then yesterday, I ran out to the gate at a pretty good pace to get a delivery because they had to ring twice. I felt like had I kept running, I could have just crashed through the steel gate, flipped the delivery van out of the way, and just kept going until I got to China. It was a very strange sensation to feel so stable, strong, and full of energy! I haven't felt that good since I was in high school for crying out loud...

But that means that FOR ME, a certain combination of exercise is good. Some things (like running and BBS) are good to do every week or two. Other things (like Qigong) are good to do more often. That seems to be an optimal combo for me - at least right now.

But that also varies... What's good for me may not work for others. Plus, what's good for me RIGHT NOW may not be good for me later. For example, my body is highly stressed by heat, but it loves the cold. So, am I getting better results now because the "heat stress" adds just enough that the results are better, whereas in the winter when it's colder that won't happen? I dunno. I'll have to keep experimenting.

A minor Qigong stretch-related knee injury also made me realize that injury is always a sign that I did something wrong. Of course, I didn't stop Qigong - I just paid more attention to what my body was telling me, and modified certain exercises. That resulted in feeling better than ever. The Injury Level naturally varies with each person, at each point in time, at different ages, etc.

Or take stressful times: Exercise is great for relieving stress, but not if you overdo it. There's always a balance to be struck, and it very often changes.

So, end of the day, I think people just need to try various things, shake things up from time to time, and see what works for you - and when.
 

genero81

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
So, end of the day, I think people just need to try various things, shake things up from time to time, and see what works for you - and when.
Yup, I agree with everything you said. Even what you said about the seasons. I think generally speaking, hotter weather is more conducive to moving the body. There's an exercise class I enjoy going to that gives a full body workout. There was a short period of a month or two when I was doing just the class and I slacked on BBS. I noticed a decrease in muscle so I went back to BBS. Now I do both. Using less exercises for BBS (3 instead of 5) seems to allow for more exercise days without over training. I've also started to incorporate more free weights again. I think for weight training, slow movements and TUL are still important but one needs to change things up a bit. Keep experimenting and listen/ pay attention to what your body is telling you.

As always, keep learning and applying.
 

nicklebleu

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I think for weight training, slow movements and TUL are still important but one needs to change things up a bit. Keep experimenting and listen/ pay attention to what your body is telling you.
I agree with that. For me only BBS seems to not be enough (progression has stalled a bit lately, and with some exercises, even been going downwards a bit). So I have added a rowing session per week into the mix and some leisurely running, too. We’ll see what happens.

@Scottie: Is there any chance you could post a video of Ark’s QiGong routine - I have my own, but it’s way too long to do every day (45 min).
 

Carl

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Agree with Scottie big time. The strength training is super beneficial but ideally needs to be balanced with a bunch of other stuff.

After some months of very little physical activity I'm now trying to work up the body's tolerance for higher activity level including 3-4 days a week gym, tennis and outdoor stuff.

Back when I would hit the gym a lot I was entirely focused on getting stronger, and it was working, but the lack of flexibility was definitely messing with me and causing some imbalance. Now this time around I am incorporating more flexibility and core-based exercises and will see how it goes.

I agree with that. For me only BBS seems to not be enough (progression has stalled a bit lately, and with some exercises, even been going downwards a bit). So I have added a rowing session per week into the mix and some leisurely running, too. We’ll see what happens.

@Scottie: Is there any chance you could post a video of Ark’s QiGong routine - I have my own, but it’s way too long to do every day (45 min).
The full routine is a similar length but you can modify it as per your needs. I've attached a word doc because I don't think theres a video yet but most of these exercises can be found on youtube. Most of the stretches are basic yoga ones and should be easy enough to find or substitute. Same with the chi gong portions. Not sure about the tibetan ones though.
 

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Scottie

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@Scottie: Is there any chance you could post a video of Ark’s QiGong routine - I have my own, but it’s way too long to do every day (45 min).
It's coming, but we haven't quite gotten around to recording yet!

In the meantime, I'm planning on making a graphical PDF guide, but I can't ever remember all the exercises. :-[

So Carl's word doc will come in handy. :whistle:
 

fabric

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FOTCM Member
I had been doing the BBS workout, but I noticed that in addition to plateauing, it just didn't seem to be doing much good anymore.
I had more less the same thing happen to me as well. I hit a plateau and didn’t really seem to be seeing much more improvement. Then I started doing Akrygong… which was a bit more challenging than I thought since areas like mobility (flexibility) and balance are also part of the workout, areas in which I wasn’t really good at. Part of it was also that I was going to visit my family and where they lived, I didn’t have access to a gym or gym equipment, so at least I’d be able to do some exercise and figured this was a good substitute.

Turns out it was. A period of about 5-6 weeks went by of doing just Qigong about 4-5 times a week. I wondered if this at least maintained the gains I made doing BBS – and it did more than that! This time, I was able to do all the exercises 15 sec longer than usual, which was surprising because I had so much trouble getting even an extra second or two before when doing BBS weekly. I also don't think it was the 'break' as some others have reported. In my case, anytime I did weightlifting routines, I would lose gains I made after 3 or 4 weeks (happened with BBS too).

One of the factors I think that contributed to it was that Qigong has a lot of body core exercises. If you can strengthen that, it can help in many other areas. I think the variety also helps one to develop better proprioception (body awareness).

As for BBS, I don’t think it’s necessary for me to do it weekly. Maybe from time to time as a ‘check’ and to break up the routine a bit. In fact it’s good to do so as the more different stimuli one exposes themselves to, the better and faster our body learns to adapt - and switching up exercises is a great way to do that.
 

Starshine

Jedi Master
Reading the routine, it seems like a highly demanding and quite complete one. How do you perform your push-ups? Slow, until failure?

The more I dig in the subject and practice, the more I want to become stronger (next objectives are 10 seconds handstand and proper muscle up) and the more I get confused, because as with diet, we can see all kind of opinions, and damn, how many different takes on it! The experimentations must be variable of the individual objectives.

Drew Baye says 2 times a week works best for most people in this video, but again he puts a lot of emphasis towards individual variations. It's not set in stone.
Ted Naiman advocates the same thing, and he emphasizes any kind of sprint prior to the exercise, be it running, jumping rope, elliptical bike...

And I came upon this interview: Firas Zahabi on focusing on consistency over intensity in training.

What he says correlates what you guys are experimenting in some ways. It has me shocked from the beginning since he says you should never be sore! His point being, volume is far more important than intensity in sport. Intensity should really be periodical, and I think it's especially true if one is to compete. Because if you're highly taxed every time, you can only train less to rest and recover. If you only go to 70% of your maximum in a flow state (as developped by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi), you'll never be sore and you'll be able to have way more training hours. It was also mentionned in BBS that the most important variable between athletes or musicians is the number of training hours.

It makes sense in regards to the Arky Chu Gong routine (love the name) as it seems to me that the objective is to get a tonic effect without getting too taxed for the rest of the day, while working on balance, breathing and flexibility. I'd like to have your view on this, since stretching is not adovcated at all by Mc Guff. I still feel the need to GENTLY stretch from time to time. Might it be detrimental only when overdoing it?
 

luc

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How do you perform your push-ups? Slow, until failure?
When I'm doing the HIIT exercise, I do my push-ups slooooowly until failure. I usually have a 5kg weight on my back as well. It helps when you have someone who removes the weight for the last 1-2 repetitions so that you may be able to finish another one.

It makes sense in regards to the Arky Chu Gong routine (love the name) as it seems to me that the objective is to get a tonic effect without getting too taxed for the rest of the day, while working on balance, breathing and flexibility. I'd like to have your view on this, since stretching is not adovcated at all by Mc Guff. I still feel the need to GENTLY stretch from time to time. Might it be detrimental only when overdoing it?
I personally find stretching very important, doing a short stretch at least every 2 days works for me. I found that the trick about stretching, especially for rather inflexible guys like me, is to learn how to breathe properly and focus on easing specific muscles while breathing out. That and knowing your limits. It's easy to hurt yourself if you don't pay attention and are too "ambitious". It doesn't matter at all how goofy it may look from the outside; as long as you are getting a controlled, gentle stretch, going slightly above your comfort zone, it's good and there should be progress. There are some good Yoga videos on YouTube where they give useful hints about where you should focus your attention, what you might want to correct and experiment with and so on. At least that has been my experience.
 

Starshine

Jedi Master
When I'm doing the HIIT exercise, I do my push-ups slooooowly until failure. I usually have a 5kg weight on my back as well. It helps when you have someone who removes the weight for the last 1-2 repetitions so that you may be able to finish another one.
Sorry, I meant the push-ups during the Arky Chu Gong routine, not while doing HIT. My bad!
 
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