Buffers, Programs and "the Predator's Mind"

[Pierre]

Re: Emotions and self-observation

but so hard to find! If you catch an emotional moment, sit and ask yourself "what is it?", it can seem as if there's a gulf there between yourself and the reply - if it comes. "What is it? What's the matter? What do you feel right now?" ...and there is inner silence. A long wait, thinking the situation over again, then maybe "I feel hurt" a simple thing, simple description, not to imply anything derogatory through the word 'simple', this is all it needs be.

That the way I perceive it. "simple" fits what is coming out. Maybe we can add "genuine", "honest", spontaneous", "non filtered", "non distorted", "raw".

I think it may be true that as the process of clearing out the junk in our emotional center progresses, the emotional center starts working right, albeit slowly and inconsistently

Yes it doesn't seem to be a linear process but it's the trend that matters. I start to see that this emotional activity is far more present than I believed. Before I could only see/express emotions when it was really intense/overwhelming so I was getting in a involuntary and uncontrollable bout of anger or burst of tears. But this is only the tip of the iceberg, there is a lot of less intense negative emotions going on.

It's like a dam blocking a very big lake. If you don't have a conscious tap allowing to release voluntary some excess water (connecting to the inner child and letting him express himself) then water pressure builds up until the dam break into an involuntary - and often damaging for you and others - burst of emotions.

It's like the emotional highs and lows have increased in height and depth - a real increase in sensitivity.

Feeling those highs and lows is a good point because it shows you when there's some emotional stuff going on. Then you have the possibility to connect to it, to focus you attention on it and try to let it express itself. It's very simple, very childish but it's part of us and this inner child has to be listened to, acknowledged and guided if you don't want him to run invisibly the show and make it a drama.

 

[go2]

Re: Emotions and self-observation

What I notice in my own attempts to re-connect properly with an sleeping emotional centre, is that most often what I thought were emotions were really just words. Whole bunches of words, thoughts, justifications, spun out by emotional thinking - which isn't emotion at all. But you get so used to it that it easily mistaken for the real thing. All the thoughts you described are taken as being emotions, but its all in the head, never in the heart or the belly.

If you catch an emotional moment, sit and ask yourself "what is it?", it can seem as if there's a gulf there between yourself and the reply - if it comes. "What is it? What's the matter? What do you feel right now?" ...and there is inner silence. A long wait, thinking the situation over again, then maybe "I feel hurt" a simple thing, simple description, not to imply anything derogatory through the word 'simple', this is all it needs be. Can we expect more from a long forgotten barely functioning emotional centre? But you see how this 'simple' thing can be usurped by the head and turned into something way more complex and baroque.

Hi Alada,

I don’t mean to pick on you, as the struggle itself leads to something of our own. Can you see how asking “what is it?” is the same old game you described in the first paragraph. Your intellectual center asked, “what is it?. I could be wrong, but I will attempt to describe what I mean. I though self observation was the process of getting out Sherlock Holmes’s magnifying glass or Beelzebub’s telescope and using an “I” of the intellectual center as an observatory. I continued to think about my feelings or emotions. I didn’t experience my emotions. I thought about my emotions. We must grow a “soul” which exists above the three centers, as an observatory. The real “I” is not to be found in the three lower centers, but exists as a new level of being.

The point is to feel our feelings, not to think our feelings. I come to a point where I realized I observe my emotions(feelings) by feeling them; not by using the intellectual function to tell me what I am experiencing when I feel anger, joy, empathy, fear, etc. This is mine. I have paid by the years of effort. The universe has mercy when I stop struggling to find the perfect method. I saw that when I came to an emotional moment---I should just sit, without comment from the mind.

As I reread this post, I realize I am simply rephrasing what Alada said. I am going to post this anyhow, in the hope that someone will benefit. I want to thank everyone on this thread for sharing their struggle to grow a “soul”.

 

[RyanX]

Re: Emotions and self-observation

What I notice in my own attempts to re-connect properly with an sleeping emotional centre, is that most often what I thought were emotions were really just words. Whole bunches of words, thoughts, justifications, spun out by emotional thinking - which isn't emotion at all. But you get so used to it that it easily mistaken for the real thing. All the thoughts you described are taken as being emotions, but its all in the head, never in the heart or the belly.

If you catch an emotional moment, sit and ask yourself "what is it?", it can seem as if there's a gulf there between yourself and the reply - if it comes. "What is it? What's the matter? What do you feel right now?" ...and there is inner silence. A long wait, thinking the situation over again, then maybe "I feel hurt" a simple thing, simple description, not to imply anything derogatory through the word 'simple', this is all it needs be. Can we expect more from a long forgotten barely functioning emotional centre? But you see how this 'simple' thing can be usurped by the head and turned into something way more complex and baroque.

Hi Alada,

I don’t mean to pick on you, as the struggle itself leads to something of our own. Can you see how asking “what is it?” is the same old game you described in the first paragraph. Your intellectual center asked, “what is it?. I could be wrong, but I will attempt to describe what I mean. I though self observation was the process of getting out Sherlock Holmes’s magnifying glass or Beelzebub’s telescope and using an “I” of the intellectual center as an observatory. I continued to think about my feelings or emotions. I didn’t experience my emotions. I thought about my emotions. We must grow a “soul” which exists above the three centers. The real “I” is not to be found in the three lower centers, but exists as a new level of being.

go2,

I'm not sure if I got the same impression from Alada's description. Alada may be asking a question with the intellectual center, but the answer described isn't coming from the intellectual center. It sounds like it comes from the emotional center. "I feel ________". This doesn't sound like rationalizing a feeling, but asking the emotional center to respond or to release a feeling and describing it in a child-like manner. In other words, this answer comes from the "inner-child" of the emotional center instead of the "adult" intellectual center, OSIT.

 

[Windmill knight]

Re: Emotions and self-observation

I'm not sure if I got the same impression from Alada's description. Alada may be asking a question with the intellectual center, but the answer described isn't coming from the intellectual center. It sounds like it comes from the emotional center. "I feel ________". This doesn't sound like rationalizing a feeling, but asking the emotional center to respond or to release a feeling and describing it in a child-like manner. In other words, this answer comes from the "inner-child" of the emotional center instead of the "adult" intellectual center, OSIT.

I read it in the same way as RyanX. Asking "what is it?" may be just another way of focusing attention to the emotional content underneath a situation. In my experience it works.

On this subject, I want to share that reading a few recent threads and applying some of the insights to myself has re-awaken in me a number of old childish emotions, so I have been able to observe them in real time. As a result, today I understood in practical terms, if only for a moment, what it really means to have the intellectual center being fueled by the emotional center. This is something I knew in theory, but for some reason never connected with my inner mechanisms except after the fact.

I watched in real time how the tiny voice of a basic emotion like "I'm scared", "I need", "I miss" or "I'm hurt" immediately turned my thinking into things like "maybe that's because people hate me, and if that's the case, I may as well disappear from everyone's lives and become a runaway hermit", or "I am so pathetic to feel like this, this is never going to change and I'm going to be soul-smashed anyway so why bother with anything", or "it's not my fault, life has been unfair to me", or "to compensate I'm going to treat me, like buy a cd or something", or inventing theories or fantasies about how bad or good I or others are.

I noticed that allowing thoughts to run like crazy in the heat of the emotion made me feel 'dirty', sloppy and weak - perhaps this is an example of what Father Sylvan (Lost Christianity) called the dispersion of the soul/attention. So instead I tried to simply feel the original emotion as it is, without letting my thoughts run with it, acknowledge and 'talk' to it as an adult talks to a child. "It's ok to feel as much as you want, I'm here with you to protect you and take care of things", and so on. Pretty soon I was feeling quite at peace again.

 

[Buddy]

Re: Emotions and self-observation

Thanks for sharing that, Windmill knight. These recent posts/threads on the work with emotions have touched me deeply and somehow allow me to feel confirmed...if that's the right word.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Re: Emotions and self-observation

Thanks from me, too, Windmill Knight! I wrote some of your post in my journal as a reminder. I do think those are examples of the first dispersal. It just made me think that it's the same thing as identification. When our intellect usurps the emotional energy, and we identify, thinking that's who we are, we are misusing that energy. But self control is actually feeling the feeling, but not allowing the intellect to "run away" with it. When we do so, the intellect can do it's job, and we can truly master ourselves. That horses can pull, put driver can direct, and hopefully, eventually, the master can rule.

I've always wondered how people in tales of courage, virtue, justice, were able to master themselves in those moments, because at the same time I was aware of my own emotions in those situations, and the vast gap between what they could do, and what I could do. The fear, the cowardice, the passivity and inaction. All because there is no "master", no inner parent to comfort the fearful child, to say it's okay, and that "I can be the strong one." But when everything is in running order, and in its own place, anything is possible! At least, that's the way I see it right now.

 

[Iron]

Re: Emotions and self-observation

I thank you people too for these recent posts, they are giving me concrete tools to work with.
I wish I had something to offer in return, but right now I can only say that I am an sponge, absorbing what is said, and dissecting it, and trying to aply everything I learn.

 

[3DStudent]

Re: Emotions and self-observation

I've read this thread at work and have been thinking about the things that were said. I think I can really relate to these emotional issues and am learning something here. So thank you Belibaste, Perceval, and other contributors.

The part that Perceval said about a hidden battle wound I can see in myself. I will think my family is sometimes trying to get under my skin when they are actually in a good and playful mood. It's like I think that they are making fun of me by intentionally being in a good mood and it brings me down. But I know this is not the case.

Today at work I was thinking about emotions because I was reading this. I actually was pretty down for some reason, and I could feel a strong negative emotion. But I realized that all emotions have a purpose and are valid. So I chose to just try to feel it as it was. I kind of reveled in it, being able to just feel it. I seemed to be able to uplift myself with this realization. After that it soon faded away and was gone.

One thing I think I have had a problem with is suppressing my emotions, like others said. I think my understanding has been wrong in this. I've been avoiding expressing my emotions thinking it's conscious suffering. I remember G saying that we waste too much energy on expressing negative emotions, like complaining about the weather. So I think I've been trying to suppress them for a few months now, thinking that it's not how you're supposed to do it.

But now we're talking about letting your inner child feel what it feels, and letting out the old wounds. I formerly thought that expressing negative emotions was being mechanical. I don't think I've been able to see my emotions as valid, so I don't express them.

To sum it up, maybe what you're supposed to do is: "Just feel it." That simplistically sounds right, osit. There's lots of nice tidbits of information here that I could use to work with.

 

[Iron]

Re: Emotions and self-observation

I think those are two separate areas of work.
One of stopping the useless negative emotions, like the complaining of weather, those arising from excessive identification with something, and another dealing with the acknowledgement of past stuck emotions, and the process of releasing them.

 

[Stevie Argyl]

Re: Emotions and self-observation

3d Student

One thing I think I have had a problem with is suppressing my emotions, like others said. I think my understanding has been wrong in this. I've been avoiding expressing my emotions thinking it's conscious suffering. I remember G saying that we waste too much energy on expressing negative emotions, like complaining about the weather. So I think I've been trying to suppress them for a few months now, thinking that it's not how you're supposed to do it.

Work is not about suppressing - you want to liberate energy - suppression costs energy. You do not suppress, you observe, you do not allow manifestation but you feel fully. Supression is a method of 'self calming' our 'evil inner god'.

Say for example you have an negative emotions - a dislike - an internal account against something or someone, an internal justification of I DONT LIKE BECAUSE, then observe this feeling with self remembering. Self observation without self remembering is just creating a filing system for the intellectual centre, and most probably a filing system probably run by false personality - ironically false personality is going to be at the base of most of these negative emotions. False personality will have set many of them up in the first place, I want / I dont want / I like / I dont like. Feel , suffer, look out for negative enjoyment, look out for chest swelling false price, look out for blaming externals. Separate I and it by clean uncontaminated obsevation coupled with self remembering. And beware how quickly self remembering degenerates into a one centre observation + one centre running mechanically under hypnosis going through the motions but subtly giving the impression of continuity.

So observe your emotion, then simultaneosly see what is seeing the emotion. See the incoming justification and see what is seeing the justification. See your dislike of another and see what observes tis dislike. give up the self talk and later something will become plane as day. Soon I and IT will obvious. If you dont employ self remembering you will be observing the same kaleidescope for years.

 

[Bernhard]

Re: Emotions and self-observation

When our intellect usurps the emotional energy, and we identify, thinking that's who we are, we are misusing that energy. But self control is actually feeling the feeling, but not allowing the intellect to "run away" with it. When we do so, the intellect can do it's job, and we can truly master ourselves. That horses can pull, put driver can direct, and hopefully, eventually, the master can rule.

Thanks for this. That helped a lot in terms of understanding my struggle to "feel" and not let the intellect "run away" with it. I can see how in myself how fast it happens, when my "hurt inner child" is feeling "abandoned" , "neglected", "scared", "rejected", etc.... and how the intellect is coming in right away trying to "explain away" the feeling and justifying it rather than feeling it and letting it go. As I mentioned before, bodywork and massage (nurturing touch)has been tremendously helpful for me to get in touch with these emotions without the intellect interfering.

It also makes much sense that "self control is actually feeling the feeling". I think self-control can be mistaken as over-riding the emotional center and "intellectualizing" emotions rather than actually putting oneself in a state of "vulnerability" and feel what is coming up, It's a different form of "control" that is more related to a letting go, getting in touch with ones inner child. Sounds like a paradox, I know, but that's how I can see it in myself.

What an insightful thread! Thank you all!

 

[Windmill knight]

Re: Emotions and self-observation

When our intellect usurps the emotional energy, and we identify, thinking that's who we are, we are misusing that energy. But self control is actually feeling the feeling, but not allowing the intellect to "run away" with it. When we do so, the intellect can do it's job, and we can truly master ourselves. That horses can pull, put driver can direct, and hopefully, eventually, the master can rule.

Thanks for this. That helped a lot in terms of understanding my struggle to "feel" and not let the intellect "run away" with it. I can see how in myself how fast it happens, when my "hurt inner child" is feeling "abandoned" , "neglected", "scared", "rejected", etc.... and how the intellect is coming in right away trying to "explain away" the feeling and justifying it rather than feeling it and letting it go. As I mentioned before, bodywork and massage (nurturing touch)has been tremendously helpful for me to get in touch with these emotions without the intellect interfering.

It also makes much sense that "self control is actually feeling the feeling". I think self-control can be mistaken as over-riding the emotional center and "intellectualizing" emotions rather than actually putting oneself in a state of "vulnerability" and feel what is coming up, It's a different form of "control" that is more related to a letting go, getting in touch with ones inner child. Sounds like a paradox, I know, but that's how I can see it in myself.

Following on these thoughts, I have been observing something in myself which now seems quite obvious but I hadn't realized. It is that I very often waste my emotional energy in emotional thoughts as a 'hobby' - a most damaging one, as it keeps me in a state of dream (daydreaming, literally). And I used to think that this was just observing my emotions, but it was my intellect running away with them and whipping them to make them run faster, all for the excitement of it. A sort of dissociation, I suppose. This is obviously my single biggest issue. Now it seems to me that I could have avoided innumerable problems and pains for me and others had I not indulged in the creation of emotional fantasies and theories. Things that I used to think went back to childhood trauma probably are simply the result of this vice. Or at least it makes the trauma part worse.

I learned something else from the Beatha breathing. I noticed that my emotions emerged more easily and stronger if I paid attention to my body, my belly in particular, and forgot about my thoughts. Kind of getting identified with the breathing as opposed to being identified with my galloping head, which is what I usually do. So it occurred to me that the seemingly random thoughts that appear while doing Beatha may be usurping the emotional energy generated by the exercise without me noticing. The good news is that I can use Beatha as a practical exercise to "feeling the feeling" and not let it be usurped by the intellect!

At the moment it feels a little like I've discovered the steering wheel and I'm going 'wow, I can actually tell this thing to go right and left!' I can't believe it has taken me so long to see something so basic. Still watching and learning to drive, though.

 

[3DStudent]

Re: Emotions and self-observation

So observe your emotion, then simultaneosly see what is seeing the emotion. See the incoming justification and see what is seeing the justification. See your dislike of another and see what observes tis dislike. give up the self talk and later something will become plane as day. Soon I and IT will obvious. If you dont employ self remembering you will be observing the same kaleidescope for years.

Thank you Stevie Argyll for this encouragement and explanation. Seeing the emotion and what is seeing it is something I need to remember to do. This I think will as you say make I and it obvious, and this I is something I think I don't know too well and want to get to know more.

At the moment it feels a little like I've discovered the steering wheel and I'm going 'wow, I can actually tell this thing to go right and left!' I can't believe it has taken me so long to see something so basic. Still watching and learning to drive, though.

That's cool, it sounds like you are making progress. Congrats!

 

[Gertrudes]

Understanding the difference between temperament and behaviour

I recently had an enlightening talk with my therapist the other day, which led me to some reflections.
Also inspired by the thread on Emotions and self-observation (http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=17581.0), I decided to post this.

It seems that I have been confusing temperament with behaviour for quite a while now. In my therapist's words temperament is part of you, it is something you can't change. Behaviour is something entirely different, and you can change it. Maybe I am off in this very first premise but if I am seeing this correctly, It seems that I have been condemning myself for my temperament ever since I can remember, taking it as a behavioural issue.

I think this is a very tricky subject where two different things can be easily confused. Upon further self observation I realized that I can more easily discern which is which by paying attention to how it feels. This is hard to put into words, the fact that the nature of what I am trying to explain doesn't belong to the realm of the intellect does not make it easy to express, but I will try to do so.
When trying to change my temperament for example, I get a repressive feeling accompanied by tightness in my chest, and I know the following might seem subjective, but it feels as if energy just doesn't flow. I also have spontaneous images associated with it, as I was writing about this in a journal that I have started the other day, I saw a ping pong ball stuck inside me moving erratically and hitting the inner walls of my body. I think it describes exactly what I have been doing, hitting my head against a wall by trying to change something not only unchangeable, but that needs to be respected.

When trying to change my behaviour, the feeling is different. It doesn't feel constrictive but controlled. It is as if grabbing the energy that is being generated inside me and molding it with care.

As we know, our motor, emotional and intellectual Centres often tend to usurp the energy from one another and misuse it. I think the above is an example of such, where understanding how dealing with my inner world in some cases can't be fueled by the intellectual centre (as I was doing), but needs to be purely felt. And being felt is not as easy as it seems, or so I find. It takes a different state of being present, almost a timeless state where I am submerged by a feeling, often followed by a bodily sensation. In that moment, I am being the feeling and the sensation.

Conscious physical exercising can be an example of proper use of the centres. It is easier for me to enter the realm of my motor centre because it is what I have been learning and doing for years. I used to jokingly say: when I'm dancing, it is as if switching on another part of my brain. Now I think that maybe I was just switching on my motor centre.
Somehow, relating to the familiar sensation of dancing and "working from another part of my brain", helps me to understand and experience "working from another part of my brain" when discerning the difference between my temperament and my behaviour. The part of the brain, or in other words the Centre in use isn't the same, but the similarity lies in the way it is used.
ADDED: A simpler way to say it is, having experienced what I believe to be a better use of one centre, helps me to do the same with another centre.

I apologise if my thoughts came out confusing, I'm still trying to make sense of it all.

I'm not sure whether I'm on track with any of these conclusions, so any feedback would be most welcomed :)

 

[RyanX]

Re: Understanding the difference between temperament and behaviour

It seems that I have been confusing temperament with behaviour for quite a while now. In my therapist's words temperament is part of you, it is something you can't change. Behaviour is something entirely different, and you can change it. Maybe I am off in this very first premise but if I am seeing this correctly, It seems that I have been condemning myself for my temperament ever since I can remember, taking it as a behavioural issue.

Hi Gertrudes,

This seems a little confusing. I guess it depends on how you define "temperament" in terms of the Work. Is it the false personality, ego, predator; all the programs you have acquired over the years? Or is it your Essence, which from my understanding has more to do with fundamental character traits such as what center (moving, emotional, intellectual) you tend to gravitate towards?

When I think of behavior, I think of some observable trait, some action or response that comes about from the combination of some outer stimuli and one's own internal process. Changing behavior doesn't typically correspond to a change in inner-state, however a change in one's inner state typically results in changed behavior, OSIT.