Candida- The Silent Epidemic

[lilyalic]

I am thinking that after I make these changes and do the anti fungi treatment and I am not still doing well on low carb. Then maybe it is just not for me? Maybe go back to eating high carb, take care of other problems and try low carb again? More and more I am thinking my main problems are chronic infections and heavy metal toxicity? Need to troubleshoot and be patient with the diet but do not want to be stuck in limbo for too long it its not working well?!

If you read a little up this thread, there are a few members that have reported feeling better when consuming carbs everyday, not only fat.
Personally my body doesn't do well on totally low/no carbs - Chris Kresser has mentioned a few times how parasites/candida feed on Ketones.
You need to feed certain critters in your gut with Carbs, as Gaby mentioned from the safe sources.

I have approximately 40-70g of carbs a day, including plenty of fat (from butter teas, from the pan etc) and that seem to work pretty well for me, IMO don't worry too much about keeping in Keto, when you seem to have other issues too. A good way to get fat in is drinking raw egg yolks too.

If you want to know more about chronic infections etc, take a look at this thread

AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN INFECTION?

 

[Laura]

Yes, I think the people who have problems with keto either have genetic issues or are colonized by some kind of pathogen. Because it isn't just candida that has to be dealt with. I did all the anti-candida stuff for a long time and I'm pretty sure they were gonzerooni, but there was still a wall that I couldn't get past. When I had the herx reaction at the beginning of the autoimmune/infection protocol, I was just gobsmacked! (Literally and figuratively.) What the heck was living inside me?

Now, at the end of six months of the protocol that I started back in May, ketosis feels VERY different!

 

[Hope]

So you are getting the majority of fat from butter and coconut milk? Assuming you are making fat bombs with butter?
When i cut down on the fatbomb and added more animal fat's, pork lard/beef dripping, my energy went up and my sluggishness after meals went down. My amount of calories from fat dropped, but i felt like i was absorbing and making alot more use out of it because i wasnt guzzling down a bowl full of hard to digest fat bomb after i just ate a meal.
Have you spent some time off coconut milk and butter, to see if they react well with you?

Its not the best sign that you get a racing heart, but feel lethargic after your fat bomb. You are most likely having too much, or are reacting too it. I would say ease off on the fat bomb, and try some more of the animal fats to make sure your not only burning butter.

Yes I get most of my fat from butter, coconut oil, and coconut milk. I usually have a serving or two of Gaby's fatbomb or if I do not have time to make fatbombs. I just have a stick of butter and a cup of coconut of milk through out the day, along with my carbs and protein. I do believe that I might be having too much fat, especially at once.

Have thought about the possibility of reacting to both coconut and butter, I know some people get digestive issues if they take in too much coconut milk and coconut oil. Also wasn't you huxley that had issues with butter causing anxiety? I do have issues with phlegm build up and I think its most likely the butter.

Will eliminate the coconut products for a while and make ghee. And also will add lard or beef tallow. I am just worried about losing any more weight, right now I am at 120lbs at 5'10 height.

When I do pass stool it usually comes out in nuggets?! And sometimes I need to go a couple of times in a hour time span too get it all out so that's sign of constipation. But at the same time I have these mild wet flatulences from time to time so I definitely have some digestive issues, hopefully these changes will help.

Hi Lilyalic and Laura,

I have not even attempted the Ketogenic diet in the strictest since. Have kept my total carb intake around 70-125 grams a day, sometimes a bit higher but now will lower it around to 70-100g after eliminating the fructose rich foods.

I do believe that there is a good chance that I have serious infection(s). All these years I have had a strong suspension of having Lyme, after seeing that tick on the kitchen floor and having a red rash on my back right around that time. At times I would randomly start researching doxy, thinking maybe I should get some from Mexico and try a couple rounds out it lol!

Even with eating clean, I am still have serious problems with anxiety, ocd, paranoia, and even aggression at times. Probably one of the possessed ones :/. Will start reading and researching even more on the subject of treating infections.

 

[Alada]

Even with eating clean, I am still have serious problems with anxiety, ocd, paranoia, and even aggression at times. Probably one of the possessed ones :/. Will start reading and researching even more on the subject of treating infections.

Well I don't think that that means your possessed! To a greater or lesser degree we all have some or all of the traits going on, I certainly recognise the list there! So I wouldn't worry about them too much, the way seems to be through slow and steady progress, working through the recommended reading, improving general health, and networking for feedback. Gradually these things DO diminish, in tandem with our efforts to know more about their causes and so consciously manage them. After a time we can find a point where they fall away and no longer interfere, but they can still be there in the background at times, we just get better at not letting the programs make our choices for us (and not wanting them to!). Sometimes we just have to crack on, despite whatever silly thoughts get thrown into the mix. It does get better! ;)

 

[riclapaz]

So you are getting the majority of fat from butter and coconut milk? Assuming you are making fat bombs with butter?
When i cut down on the fatbomb and added more animal fat's, pork lard/beef dripping, my energy went up and my sluggishness after meals went down. My amount of calories from fat dropped, but i felt like i was absorbing and making alot more use out of it because i wasnt guzzling down a bowl full of hard to digest fat bomb after i just ate a meal.
Have you spent some time off coconut milk and butter, to see if they react well with you?

Its not the best sign that you get a racing heart, but feel lethargic after your fat bomb. You are most likely having too much, or are reacting too it. I would say ease off on the fat bomb, and try some more of the animal fats to make sure your not only burning butter.

Yes I get most of my fat from butter, coconut oil, and coconut milk. I usually have a serving or two of Gaby's fatbomb or if I do not have time to make fatbombs. I just have a stick of butter and a cup of coconut of milk through out the day, along with my carbs and protein. I do believe that I might be having too much fat, especially at once.

Hello AD, I think it would also be important to do a liver cleanse, cardomariano, ALA, NAC, etc, many people are lazy liver, due to years in a diet high in carbohydrates and low in fat, here's a thread about it:
"Sluggish" Liver issues.

https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,17952.0.html

Will eliminate the coconut products for a while and make ghee. And also will add lard or beef tallow. I am just worried about losing any more weight, right now I am at 120lbs at 5'10 height.

Possibly is necessary little more time, and make available fats that the body can assimilate, if the weight exercise can also helps in weight gain, here a thread with good advice on weight loss that other members have responded by making changes in diet:
I'm losing weight!
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,17069.0.html

 

[lainey]

So you are getting the majority of fat from butter and coconut milk? Assuming you are making fat bombs with butter?
When i cut down on the fatbomb and added more animal fat's, pork lard/beef dripping, my energy went up and my sluggishness after meals went down. My amount of calories from fat dropped, but i felt like i was absorbing and making alot more use out of it because i wasnt guzzling down a bowl full of hard to digest fat bomb after i just ate a meal.
Have you spent some time off coconut milk and butter, to see if they react well with you?

Its not the best sign that you get a racing heart, but feel lethargic after your fat bomb. You are most likely having too much, or are reacting too it. I would say ease off on the fat bomb, and try some more of the animal fats to make sure your not only burning butter.

Yes I get most of my fat from butter, coconut oil, and coconut milk. I usually have a serving or two of Gaby's fatbomb or if I do not have time to make fatbombs. I just have a stick of butter and a cup of coconut of milk through out the day, along with my carbs and protein. I do believe that I might be having too much fat, especially at once.

Have thought about the possibility of reacting to both coconut and butter, I know some people get digestive issues if they take in too much coconut milk and coconut oil. Also wasn't you huxley that had issues with butter causing anxiety? I do have issues with phlegm build up and I think its most likely the butter.

Will eliminate the coconut products for a while and make ghee. And also will add lard or beef tallow. I am just worried about losing any more weight, right now I am at 120lbs at 5'10 height.

When I do pass stool it usually comes out in nuggets?! And sometimes I need to go a couple of times in a hour time span too get it all out so that's sign of constipation. But at the same time I have these mild wet flatulences from time to time so I definitely have some digestive issues, hopefully these changes will help.

Hi Lilyalic and Laura,

I have not even attempted the Ketogenic diet in the strictest since. Have kept my total carb intake around 70-125 grams a day, sometimes a bit higher but now will lower it around to 70-100g after eliminating the fructose rich foods.

I do believe that there is a good chance that I have serious infection(s). All these years I have had a strong suspension of having Lyme, after seeing that tick on the kitchen floor and having a red rash on my back right around that time. At times I would randomly start researching doxy, thinking maybe I should get some from Mexico and try a couple rounds out it lol!

Even with eating clean, I am still have serious problems with anxiety, ocd, paranoia, and even aggression at times. Probably one of the possessed ones :/. Will start reading and researching even more on the subject of treating infections.

Hello AD, I react to coconut products really quite badly so perhaps that is part of the issue. Plus your carb intake is still fairly high if you are consuming that much fat as well.
Starting the autoimmune protocol is a serious business and not something that should be taken lightly. I would suggest attempting the ketogenic diet strictly and committing to detox protocols first (heavy metal, candida, supplementation etc.) for a reasonable period of time. From there you can judge if you have any improvements and uncover any issues you may have with sticking to a strict regime. If you started the doxy you can't just give up if you have a reaction.
My suggestion would be to research all of this properly and not "randomly" before jumping into something that could affect your health.
As for the other thing you have listed, many of these things get better with time and correct implementation of the diet, also if you put time and effort into uncovering the underlying causes of these reactions this can help identify changes you may need to make in your life.
You could always start a thread about one or all of these issues if you wanted to explore them further.
I found L theanine was brilliant for calming the mind FWIW.
Good luck.

 

[RedFox]

Yes I get most of my fat from butter, coconut oil, and coconut milk. I usually have a serving or two of Gaby's fatbomb or if I do not have time to make fatbombs. I just have a stick of butter and a cup of coconut of milk through out the day, along with my carbs and protein. I do believe that I might be having too much fat, especially at once.

Have thought about the possibility of reacting to both coconut and butter, I know some people get digestive issues if they take in too much coconut milk and coconut oil. Also wasn't you huxley that had issues with butter causing anxiety? I do have issues with phlegm build up and I think its most likely the butter.

Will eliminate the coconut products for a while and make ghee. And also will add lard or beef tallow. I am just worried about losing any more weight, right now I am at 120lbs at 5'10 height.

When I do pass stool it usually comes out in nuggets?! And sometimes I need to go a couple of times in a hour time span too get it all out so that's sign of constipation. But at the same time I have these mild wet flatulences from time to time so I definitely have some digestive issues, hopefully these changes will help.

Hi Lilyalic and Laura,

I have not even attempted the Ketogenic diet in the strictest since. Have kept my total carb intake around 70-125 grams a day, sometimes a bit higher but now will lower it around to 70-100g after eliminating the fructose rich foods.

I do believe that there is a good chance that I have serious infection(s). All these years I have had a strong suspension of having Lyme, after seeing that tick on the kitchen floor and having a red rash on my back right around that time. At times I would randomly start researching doxy, thinking maybe I should get some from Mexico and try a couple rounds out it lol!

Even with eating clean, I am still have serious problems with anxiety, ocd, paranoia, and even aggression at times. Probably one of the possessed ones :/. Will start reading and researching even more on the subject of treating infections.

Hi AD
I've been through very similar situations over the years, so I'll try and share what worked the best.

The loosing weight thread riclapaz linked above, I posted too in 2010 about similar things.
I also posted to this thread in 2014.
The most long lasting effects on my health (and weight) here (if you are Mexican you have a higher than average change of having this mutation), and here.

I'd drop the coconut milk for sure - one of the things I learned is that I don't obviously react to a lot of foods.
What is likely happening though is my gut get's inflamed (do you get neck/head/shoulder pain? that's usually a sign), which means if I eat the wrong thing it blocks the absorption of nutrients. I loose weight.
Your description of your stools suggest a digestive problem (or several).

Gut healing, have a look at Berberine (it was the only thing that healed my guts out of every other supplement I tried, taken along side the MTHFR protocol) and bone broth along with the threads in this section.
Digestive support. When you are stressed/tired, your body struggles to digest food properly.
Candida may be inflaming your guts and/or eating up the nutrients you need. Look into Bromelain.
Liver stress, be careful of things that stress your liver (chemicals, some supplements, infections) and support it with Milk Thistle.
Get the right probiotics.


The second things I learned over this time was stress and poor sleep make me loose weight. A week of stress or interupted sleep and I'll loose a few kg! I had to drop the cold showers for that reason.
Going keto is also stressful, so is candida or other infections. Thinking in the wrong way is also stressful!
I'm sure some people would be envious of my ability to literally think myself thin

To be specific, I learned I was unaware how stressed I was and would regularly push through tiredness. I also learned that I had no idea how to deal with emotions healthily.

It's all about energy and resources. Are they getting in ok/are you eating the right things for your body? Can your body use them or does it need some help? Where are you using the energy (are you in stress mode from wrong thinking, infection, lack of resources getting in, lack of resources to use the fuel - or rest/healing/growth mode)?
It might be worth checking out the glycine thread too, as my body seems to really need quite a lot of it. It's healing a lot of things and making me stronger. It also stops me feeling fatigued if I eat a lot of meat (at one point I would under eat, because eating enough food to not loose weight would make me feel terrible).

*edit to add*
Eating too much fat (especially late at night) can cause digestive problems and stress the liver too.

 

[Hope]

Well I don't think that that means your possessed! To a greater or lesser degree we all have some or all of the traits going on, I certainly recognise the list there! So I wouldn't worry about them too much, the way seems to be through slow and steady progress, working through the recommended reading, improving general health, and networking for feedback. Gradually these things DO diminish, in tandem with our efforts to know more about their causes and so consciously manage them. After a time we can find a point where they fall away and no longer interfere, but they can still be there in the background at times, we just get better at not letting the programs make our choices for us (and not wanting them to!). Sometimes we just have to crack on, despite whatever silly thoughts get thrown into the mix. It does get better! ;)

I was using it as metaphor for being infected with possibly some nasty critters, should have been more clear. I know most people experience these symptoms to a degree but for me it is extreme at times. To the point where sometimes its debilitating! Will talk more about it in my personal thread.

Hello AD, I think it would also be important to do a liver cleanse, cardomariano, ALA, NAC, etc, many people are lazy liver, due to years in a diet high in carbohydrates and low in fat, here's a thread about it:
"Sluggish" Liver issues.

Possibly is necessary little more time, and make available fats that the body can assimilate, if the weight exercise can also helps in weight gain, here a thread with good advice on weight loss that other members have responded by making changes in diet:
I'm losing weight!
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,17069.0.html

I do take ALA and NAC. Will take a look at the thread.

Hello AD, I react to coconut products really quite badly so perhaps that is part of the issue. Plus your carb intake is still fairly high if you are consuming that much fat as well.
Starting the autoimmune protocol is a serious business and not something that should be taken lightly. I would suggest attempting the ketogenic diet strictly and committing to detox protocols first (heavy metal, candida, supplementation etc.) for a reasonable period of time. From there you can judge if you have any improvements and uncover any issues you may have with sticking to a strict regime. If you started the doxy you can't just give up if you have a reaction.
My suggestion would be to research all of this properly and not "randomly" before jumping into something that could affect your health.
As for the other thing you have listed, many of these things get better with time and correct implementation of the diet, also if you put time and effort into uncovering the underlying causes of these reactions this can help identify changes you may need to make in your life.
You could always start a thread about one or all of these issues if you wanted to explore them further.
I found L theanine was brilliant for calming the mind FWIW.
Good luck.

Yes I have dropped the coconut milk. I am going to pay more attention to my diet like weighing out all my food and tracking it. Certainty will do the research and way the options before even thinking about doing the anti parasitic protocol. Especially after Laura's new update on it, the protocol is very challenging in a number of ways to say the least.

Hi AD
I've been through very similar situations over the years, so I'll try and share what worked the best.

The loosing weight thread riclapaz linked above, I posted too in 2010 about similar things.
I also posted to this thread in 2014.
The most long lasting effects on my health (and weight) here (if you are Mexican you have a higher than average change of having this mutation), and here.

I'd drop the coconut milk for sure - one of the things I learned is that I don't obviously react to a lot of foods.
What is likely happening though is my gut get's inflamed (do you get neck/head/shoulder pain? that's usually a sign), which means if I eat the wrong thing it blocks the absorption of nutrients. I loose weight.
Your description of your stools suggest a digestive problem (or several).

Gut healing, have a look at Berberine (it was the only thing that healed my guts out of every other supplement I tried, taken along side the MTHFR protocol) and bone broth along with the threads in this section.
Digestive support. When you are stressed/tired, your body struggles to digest food properly.
Candida may be inflaming your guts and/or eating up the nutrients you need. Look into Bromelain.
Liver stress, be careful of things that stress your liver (chemicals, some supplements, infections) and support it with Milk Thistle.
Get the right probiotics.


The second things I learned over this time was stress and poor sleep make me loose weight. A week of stress or interupted sleep and I'll loose a few kg! I had to drop the cold showers for that reason.
Going keto is also stressful, so is candida or other infections. Thinking in the wrong way is also stressful!
I'm sure some people would be envious of my ability to literally think myself thin

To be specific, I learned I was unaware how stressed I was and would regularly push through tiredness. I also learned that I had no idea how to deal with emotions healthily.

It's all about energy and resources. Are they getting in ok/are you eating the right things for your body? Can yourody use them or does it need some help? Where are you using the energy (are you in stress mode from wrong thinking, infection, lack of resources getting in, lack of resources to use the fuel - or rest/healing/growth mode)?
It might be worth checking out the glycine thread too, as my body seems to really need quite a lot of it. It's healing a lot of things and making me stronger. It also stops me feeling fatigued if I eat a lot of meat (at one point I would under eat, because eating enough food to not loose weight would make me feel terrible).

*edit to add*
Eating too much fat (especially late at night) can cause digestive problems and stress the liver too.

Hi Redfox,

Wow a loss of a couple kilos in weight! That's a lot! Will try to stress less but I am chronic stress-er, always stressed out!. A lot of times its just my paranoia, ocd, and anxiety that will not leave me alone. I can't control my mind at times it seems like, that is why I think I might have a serious problem with infections or maybe its just the way I am?! It's is a life long problem but will try to meditate and try to stay calm/composed.

I will be taking Nystatin along with Berberine and some other herbs in the next couple of weeks to try to eliminate candida so hopefully this will help. Also will test chocolate, think it is causing problems but have a hard eliminating it lol.

The diarrhea has improved after eliminating the coconut milk and cutting down on the fat. Will take a look at those supplements but I am already taking quite a lot and its getting pricey so have to pick and choose. Will continue to learn and make changes. It is quite a lot to take in and do but all we can do is our best.

P.S Sorry for replying so late, been very busy with work these last couple of days. Thank you for all your help!!!

 

[lilyalic]

Hi Redfox,

Wow a loss of a couple kilos in weight! That's a lot! Will try to stress less but I am chronic stress-er, always stressed out!. A lot of times its just my paranoia, ocd, and anxiety that will not leave me alone. I can't control my mind at times it seems like, that is why I think I might have a serious problem with infections or maybe its just the way I am?! It's is a life long problem but will try to meditate and try to stay calm/composed.

I will be taking Nystatin along with Berberine and some other herbs in the next couple of weeks to try to eliminate candida so hopefully this will help. Also will test chocolate, think it is causing problems but have a hard eliminating it lol.

The diarrhea has improved after eliminating the coconut milk and cutting down on the fat. Will take a look at those supplements but I am already taking quite a lot and its getting pricey so have to pick and choose. Will continue to learn and make changes. It is quite a lot to take in and do but all we can do is our best.

P.S Sorry for replying so late, been very busy with work these last couple of days. Thank you for all your help!!!

The posts that RedFox linked for you will be extremely useful to read. The "Dialectic" thread that RF provided is based around the book "Inviting a Monkey to Tea: Befriending Your Mind and Discovering Lasting Contentement" by Nancy Colier, it's a very easy read. :) It's available on Amazon & Ebay.

Despite the way you think you are, that can change, remember! Your issues are probably a whole range of things, biological and psychological - with taking steps in showing yourself kindness/understanding and self-compassion, along with making efforts regarding your diet and physical well-being, you'll start to see changes. I'm glad your digestion issues have improved!

Good Luck, AD, keep us updated when you can. :)

 

[mk1154]

Yes, I think the people who have problems with keto either have genetic issues or are colonized by some kind of pathogen. Because it isn't just candida that has to be dealt with. I did all the anti-candida stuff for a long time and I'm pretty sure they were gonzerooni, but there was still a wall that I couldn't get past. When I had the herx reaction at the beginning of the autoimmune/infection protocol, I was just gobsmacked! (Literally and figuratively.) What the heck was living inside me?

Now, at the end of six months of the protocol that I started back in May, ketosis feels VERY different!

May I ask which protocol you followed? I am currently treating a fungal/yeast overgrowth and doing gut healing, but also suspect heavy metal toxicity (recently replaced 4 amalgam fillings) and parasites. I tested positive for parasites on a Genova Diagnostics stool analysis, but my naturopath told me it probably isn't anything to worry about because it only indicates I have a parasite, not a "bad" one -- meaning we have many parasites, some of which do no harm. I figure better safe than sorry best to detox.

 

[lilyalic]

Yes, I think the people who have problems with keto either have genetic issues or are colonized by some kind of pathogen. Because it isn't just candida that has to be dealt with. I did all the anti-candida stuff for a long time and I'm pretty sure they were gonzerooni, but there was still a wall that I couldn't get past. When I had the herx reaction at the beginning of the autoimmune/infection protocol, I was just gobsmacked! (Literally and figuratively.) What the heck was living inside me?

Now, at the end of six months of the protocol that I started back in May, ketosis feels VERY different!

May I ask which protocol you followed? I am currently treating a fungal/yeast overgrowth and doing gut healing, but also suspect heavy metal toxicity (recently replaced 4 amalgam fillings) and parasites. I tested positive for parasites on a Genova Diagnostics stool analysis, but my naturopath told me it probably isn't anything to worry about because it only indicates I have a parasite, not a "bad" one -- meaning we have many parasites, some of which do no harm. I figure better safe than sorry best to detox.

The protocol spoken of is on this thread AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN INFECTION?

 

[Eliza Plank]

I wonder whether the Serotonin disease might cause Candida. I read lot about the symptoms of both and they sound very similar. I have also hear about other people that have candida. Read a lot on the site http://www.yeastinfection.org/. They are highly recommended for prevention..
Any experience

 

[Marina9]

I wonder whether the Serotonin disease might cause Candida. I read lot about the symptoms of both and they sound very similar. I have also hear about other people that have candida. Read a lot on the site http://www.yeastinfection.org/. They are highly recommended for prevention..
Any experience

I was just wondering the same thing Eliza, since i was reading Laura's post on Serotonin Defiency and yesterday about Candida, i wonder if they are related. Looking at the symptoms of both of them i do believe they have a correlation, sounds logical to me, how this type of fungus can create such a variaty of disorders in our minds and bodies..

 

[Carl]

There is a thread on Candida btw - This will probably get merged.
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,40033.0.html


Yes, there is a connection. 95% of serotonin is apparently produced in the gut (in large part by bifidobacterium in the large intestine/colon). Candida overgrowth lowers the number of these, and other beneficial bacteria, resulting in less neurotransmitter production (not to mention more toxins leaking into the bloodstream and reaching the brain).

 

[Astrocyte]

Since this topic has just been "revived", I thought I'd mention that apparently, coconut oil can help kill candida:

http://authoritynutrition.com/top-10-evidence-based-health-benefits-of-coconut-oil/

The Lauric Acid in Coconut Oil Can Kill Bacteria, Viruses and Fungi, Helping to Stave Off Infections

Almost 50% of the fatty acids in coconut oil is the 12-carbon Lauric Acid.

When coconut oil is enzymatically digested, it also forms a monoglyceride called monolaurin.

Both lauric acid and monolaurin can kill harmful pathogens like bacteria, viruses and fungi (8).

For example, these substances have been shown to kill the bacteria Staphylococcus Aureus (a very dangerous pathogen) and the yeast Candida Albicans, a common source of yeast infections in humans (9, 10).

Bottom Line: The fatty acids and breakdown products in coconut oil can kill harmful pathogens, potentially helping to prevent infections.

If anyone is interested, you can find some yummy recipes with lots of healthy fats here. If tolerated, it can add some variety to both the paleo and ketogenic diet.

Just wanting to add weight to this theory and talk of personal experiences.

Here an interesting paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC90807/

We had frequent problems with C. albicans, the solution came by using coconut oil, both internally and externally. When used externally we add a little Neem oil. It work very well since coconut fatty acid components seem toxic to C. albicans.

Now under ketogenic diet and avoiding antibiotics when possible, no occurrence of this bug since a long time.