Canine Bone Cancer

Olesya said:
Hi, voyager. :) The news are not so good, but, please, don't give up! I understand your feelings upon receiving this news, but you can't let yourself succumb to the sorrow, sadness and fear. Let your Hope be a miraculous cure for Jack! Hope it's worth it's way in gold. Let me explain further.

Here are just some of my thoughts. Jack is not just a Guardian dog, He is a Fighter dog, a Warrior dog. He feels everything you feel, and if you have worries and despair, it's not helping him. You need to help him fight it. What I would do, is the following.

You need to start with yourself. Try to do EE more often, focusing on the warrior's breath. After doing it, hold your dog close to you and gently pet him with light strokes, especially the areas afflicted with the disease, his belly too. I would also try to keep him very close at all times, when possible. Where does he sleep? Maybe, you can arrange for him to sleep very close to you. If he doesn't want it, he surely will show it to you. :)

Thank you for your kind encouraging words, Olesya. I just wanted to assure you that giving up is not something i would do and if my prior words conveyed that impression they were misplaced. If anything, going through the last few months has brought us to a much deeper understanding of the reciprocal nature of nurturing and care that we give and receive; and yes, he is a Warrior and extremely in-tune with us and we, i hope, better with him. EE continues and Jack is held very close. As for sleeping, he has become very accustomed to nestling between us and ensuring he has the last word on this (i could not move him for trying) :). Cassie, his dear girlfriend, senses him deeply and stays very close by watching him, constantly checking up on him with a nudge here and a lick there - she is all sweetness and joy and he loves her back. :love:

I have this uneasy feeling about the vitamin C regimen, especially with the goat milk. I'm really sorry that I missed it the first time I read your post (thank you, Chrissy, :) for bringing it up again). I can't tell you what is it exactly: it maybe, vitamin C per se, or it's the combination with the goat milk. I think the latter needs to removed from his diet. Have you checked his liver lately? I was also thinking about magnesium. Here is the article where you can read about that: _http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/AnimalWellness/Shasta.aspx There is another one here: _http://www.tbyil.com/Dogs_Natural_Cancer_Protocol.htm There is nothing specific about the magnesium for cancer treatment in dogs, but if you look at specific supplements suggested such as Kelp, Alfalfa, and Dandelion, all contain magnesium ( in significant quantities, I would think) Other herbs are also liver and gut cleansing herbs. And keep up with his raw food diet and all the wonderful care you providing for Jack.

All of what you offer is noted and the Goats Milk is not a constant, yet agree, it may not be helpful due to conversion factors, yet was recommended by people who have raised many dogs and fought off cancer (although a different variety). I don't know empirically concerning the lipo vit c and everything else we are doing. I've definitely a regret concerning not having him on a Raw Food diet since he was a pup (i can't go backwards on this in time). I do know the vet's have said it is unique that he seems to not be suffering (perhaps this is not unique at this stage as i've no bases to compare). As for suffering, really he is not now, in many ways he is a younger dog than he was and has great energy if let loose.

There is one more possibility to consider, I think. Essential oils, frankincense essential and myrrh oils, in particular. _http://www.miracleoils.ca/2012/12/frankincense-essential-oil-and-cancer.html Little anointment for Jack? :)

He is not getting the frankincense oil, however, he (and i was corrected concerning this) is getting Boswellia Cristal - i'll look into myrrh oil.

[...]

I really hope it helps. And my best wishes and warm hugs to all of you! :love:

I've copied the remainder of what you warmly provided and will have a deeper look; and yes, it helps, so again, thank you, Olesya. :hug:

Thanks Keit and HE, you both see things not seen by many as learned practitioners and have helped so many here understand what was not - the forum is graced with what you both offer. As for Jack being cherished, oh indeed, every minute; and sometimes as we are walking him, it rather seems he is walking us in a great shared lesson. :)
 
Big hug to you both, Voyageur, and Chrissy. :hug2: At least your companions will spend what ever time they have left surrounded by those who love them very much.

:hug2: :hug2:

Best of luck to both of you and much joy in your remaining time with your beloved dog companions.
Take care.
shellycheval
 
Thank you Voyageur for the vitamin c info. I'm sorry to hear about Jack's recent checkup. I understand what you mean about feeling powerless and I would like to thank you for this thread and everyone's contributions.

Your recent trip with him sounded beautiful and brought tears to my eyes. Take care.
 
Hi, voyager :) Thank you for sharing all the love and care that lives in your own household. It is truly heartwarming. :)

It's certainly wasn't surprising to read that Jack 'he has become very accustomed to nestling between us and ensuring he has the last word on this (i could not move him for trying) :lol: I want to share something that I learned from my daughter that might also help (maybe, you're doing it already :) ) The power of the healing hand, especially, during sleep. Let me explain further. My daughter was born premature, and although she didn't have any visible physical problems (she was breathing normally, smiling and sleeping a lot :)), she was really skinny when she was born. So, when I took her home from hospital, she slept in bed with me (in a little basket made of fabric). And when we were sleeping together, every night I was holding my hand on her lower back, where children's bodies naturally curve when sleeping :) Later, when she had a bout of whooping cough, I put her in between my hands (one hand on the back, and the other in front on her chest), so she could sleep, and in the morning she was feeling much better.

About the essential oils. If you're gonna look into this option, I would like to share some thoughts. You might already know this, so this is just a reminder. I think that the proportion between the amount of any essential oil ( stand alone or a combination) to the amount of the carrier oil has to be very different for dogs than for humans ( i.e. really minute amount of essential oil to much bigger amount of the carrier oil), as to not to offend the dog's senses and do not give him a shock. Especially, at the beginning. As it goes, the less, is more. Sort of like oil homeopathy :) What kind of carrier oil is used and the purity of it is also important. Maybe, purified animal fat will work better? The process of mixing animal fat and essential oil it's a difficult one, but maybe not that impossible. The fat might be slightly heated up to a certain temperature, if the fat is solid or semi-solid at the room temperature. The heating and the temperature needed can be chosen visually; it might be very similar to a process of making chocolate: you heat the chocolate a little bit until it starts to melt, take the pot off the stove, wait a little bit until it melts completely), and then mix it with the essential oil by vigorously stirring it, not shaking. Even it very well may be that the final formulation needs to be massaged into the skin when it is slightly warm. I think that the fresh preparation/mixture needs to be made each time, right before the application.

There are two articles from SoTT page where Frankincense is mentioned:

http://www.sott.net/article/207899-Frankincense-Tree-Sap-May-Be-a-Cure-for-Cancer

http://www.sott.net/article/190273-Use-the-Healing-Properties-of-Helichrysum-Essential-Oil

I also found one more https://www.sites.google.com/site/younglivingeu/home/28-days-to-kill-cancer-cells---sacred-frankincense--dr-suhail-s-research

There were several interesting points in it, especially, considering that there is such thing as "Sacred Frankincense" sold by Young living oils.


“The records show that frankincense was produced here as far back as 7,000 BC,” he says. He produces an army knife. He used to be a member of the Sultan’s Special Forces. With a practised flick, he cuts a strip of bark from the trunk of one of the Boswellia sacra trees. Pinpricks of milky-white sap appear on the wood and, very slowly, start to ooze out.

“This is the first cut. But you don’t gather this sap,” he says. “It releases whatever impurities are in the wood. The farmers return after two or three weeks and make a second, and a third, cut. Then the sap comes out yellow, or bright green, or brown or even black. They take this.

[...]

“We learnt about frankincense from our forefathers and they learnt it from theirs” he says. “The practice has been passed down through the generations. We exported the frankincense, and that’s how the families in Dhofar made their livings.”

And what an export trade it was. Frankincense was sent by camel train to Egypt, and from there to Europe. It was shipped from the ancient port of Sumharan to Persia, India and China. Religions adopted frankincense as a burnt offering.

And what an export trade it was. Frankincense was sent by camel train to Egypt, and from there to Europe. It was shipped from the ancient port of Sumharan to Persia, India and China. Religions adopted frankincense as a burnt offering.

The Roman Empire coveted the frankincense trade. In the first century BCE, Augustus Caesar sent 10,000 troops to invade what the Romans called Arabia Felix to find the source of frankincense and to control its production. The legions, marching from Yemen, were driven back by the heat and the aridity of the desert. They never found their Eldorado.

Oman’s frankincense trade went into decline three centuries ago, when Portugal fought Oman for dominance of the sea routes in the Indian and the Pacific Oceans.

Nowadays, hardly any Omani frankincense is exported. Partly, this is because bulk buyers, such as the Roman Catholic Church, buy cheaper Somalian varieties. Partly, it is because Omanis now produce so little.

Nowadays, hardly any Omani frankincense is exported. Partly, this is because bulk buyers, such as the Roman Catholic Church, buy cheaper Somalian varieties. Partly, it is because Omanis now produce so little.

[...]

Scientists have observed that there is some agent within frankincense which stops cancer spreading, and which induces cancerous cells to close themselves down. He is trying to find out what this is.

“Cancer starts when the DNA code within the cell’s nucleus becomes corrupted,” he says. “It seems frankincense has a re-set function. It can tell the cell what the right DNA code should be.

“Frankincense separates the ‘brain’ of the cancerous cell – the nucleus – from the ‘body’ – the cytoplasm, and closes down the nucleus to stop it reproducing corrupted DNA codes.”

[...]


Dr Suhail (who is originally from Iraq) has teamed up with medical scientists from the University of Oklahoma for the task.

In his laboratory in Salalah, he extracts the essential oil from locally produced frankincense. Then, he separates the oil into its constituent agents, such as Boswellic acid.

“There are 17 active agents in frankincense essential oil,” says Dr Suhail. “We are using a process of elimination. We have cancer sufferers – for example, a horse in South Africa – and we are giving them tiny doses of each agent until we find the one which works.”

Some scientists think Boswellic acid is the key ingredient. But I think this is wrong. Many other essential oils – like oil from sandalwood – contain Boswellic acid, but they don’t have this effect on cancer cells. So we are starting afresh.”

The trials will take months to conduct and whatever results come out of them will take longer still to be verified. But this is a blink of the eye in the history of frankincense.

Nine thousand years ago, Omanis gathered it and burnt it for its curative and cleansing properties. It could be a key to the medical science of tomorrow.

Here is the list _http://www.biosourcenaturals.com/essential-oils-about.htm of other essential oils that combine well with frankincense. Interestingly enough, Rose Geranium is one of the them. I don't have one particular link about it yet, but I tried it myself and as a remedy for my daughter, and I can tell it's maybe one of most important oils for alleviating pain, promoting well being and as a deterrent to harmful insects (lice, is one example).

If you, voyager, will decided to experiment with mixing, I think the final preparation as a remedy for your dog shouldn't have any perceptible smell at all. It's just when you inhale the air while trying to smell the final mixture, you will have certain feelings in your body. Pleasant or unpleasant that will guide you if it's a good mixture or not. It is also, maybe, useful to try the combinations on yourself first. This way, you can use much larger amount of essential oil in comparison to the carrier oil (if the final fragrance is pleasant, is a way to go), and then dilute it, until you can't smell it at all.

There also a question of how color of the plant, bark, or resin influences the medicinal properties of the essential oil that is extracted from it. I just started reading Goethe "Theory of Colours" _http://archive.org/stream/goethestheoryco01goetgoog#page/n10/mode/2up in relation to the article on SoTT page here http://www.sott.net/article/266825-8000-year-old-evidence-of-human-activity-found-in-Alps and the articles from the links provided inside. It's all not clear yet, but so exciting! Color, light, tone (as in tone wood), sound frequency, even spinning that was mentioned several times by C's.

That's all for now. I'll look into it further. My best wishes to All of you. And big and warm hugs! :love:
 
Thanks for sharing your story, Olesya, concerning "the power of the healing hand" with your child; very warming.

All this information on frankincense is highly interesting (historical also) and strange, too. After reading the other night, the dear boy took a road trip today (he loves those) to see the holistic doc. and she, too, discussed frankincense; so this is what came home today, a small bottle - so i was reading about it tonight from here - _http://www.auracacia.com/auracacia/aclearn/eo_frankmyrrh.html

A couple of paragraphs are noted to add to what you posted.

Frankincense & Myrrh Essential Oils

The earliest recorded use of frankincense is found in an inscription on the tomb of a 15th century BC Egyptian queen named Hathsepsut. Ancient Egyptians burned frankincense as incense and ground the charred resin into a powder called kohl. Kohl was used to make the distinctive black eyeliner seen on so many figures in Egyptian art. Egyptians also used myrrh resin as incense and as an important ingredient in the embalming process, sometimes placing the crude resin in the eviscerated body cavities of mummies.

Frankincense and myrrh are familiar botanical products in the east, where they've been used for millennia. Most people in the west are unfamiliar with the true identity of these enigmatic substances -- even though they are frequently mentioned in historical texts, especially scripture, (frankincense is mentioned 22 times in the Bible).

Frankincense and myrrh essential oils are distilled from the resin of two separate but related trees of the burseraceae family. Plants of this family are often sculpted into natural bonsai by the extreme conditions of their desert environments, with eerily contorted trunks and stubby leafless branches.
There are many different species of frankincense (Boswellia) and myrrh (Commiphera) growing from east Africa through southern Arabia and into northwestern India. The general consensus of botanists identifies four main species of Boswellia and two of Commiphera.

Boswellia carteri comes from Somalia. B. sacra comes from southern Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Oman. B. frereana also grows in Somalia. Its resin and essential oil are known as African elemi, (not to be confused with true elemi essential oil, which comes from a Philippine tree). B. serrata grows in India. Its resin and essential oil are known as Indian olibanum.

Commiphera myrrha or true myrrh occurs in Somalia and the Arabian peninsula, along with about eight other species which are often mixed together in commercially available crude resin.

The trunks of both frankincense and myrrh trees exude a sticky substance called oleo gum resin. This oleo gum resin is made up of roughly 65% gum, 30% resin and 4% essential oil (frankincense), and 45% gum, 30% resin and 4% essential oil (myrrh). The tree trunks are incised by collectors to expedite the release of the resin, which dries in the hot desert sun into hard knobby masses called tears -- a fitting name considering what the tree goes through, and in light of the fact that myrrh traditionally symbolizes suffering. (Frankincense symbolizes divinity.)

The crude resin of frankincense and myrrh can be treated in one of two ways to produce liquid aromatics. The resin is soluble in chemical solvents and the essential oil can be steam distilled. The solvent extraction process produces a viscous, almost solid substance called a resinoid. Resinoids are soluble in high-grade, odorless alcohols. Alcohol dissolved resinoids are sometimes passed off as distilled essential oils. Resinoids are often used in perfume making. Steam distilled essential oils of frankincense and myrrh are most appropriate for use in aromatherapy.

Frankincense and myrrh can be useful in less relaxing blends as well. Outstanding and unusual aromas can be created by blending the two oils with citrus oils -- lemon and bergamot work well with frankincense; orange and tangerine with myrrh. The citrus oils produce a lighter, cleaner, more uplifting aroma, more inspiring and less introspective than using frankincense and myrrh alone. These citrus frankincense and myrrh blends are useful when seeking emotional inspiration. Frankincense and myrrh alone are best used when seeking emotional insight.

One of the most appropriate ways to use frankincense and myrrh may be to burn the crude resin on hot coals as the ancients did. This simple ritual will release a distinctive aroma and sinuous trails of fragrant incense that hold a mysterious presence in the room. The curling tendrils of burning frankincense and myrrh have measured the passage of history, and facilitate the navigation of inner and outer spiritual.

In another article it discussed the tree, Boswellia carteri, with the best "potential" growing in very harsh terrain, often seemingly out of rocks. In these cases, the base becomes bulbous (which is like a wind anchor) and it is at the base of these trees that optimal oil is extracted.

It was interesting what was written with regards to Augustus Caesar searching out the "Eldorado" of frankincense with an army of 10,000.

However, back to what you quoted:

Scientists have observed that there is some agent within frankincense which stops cancer spreading, and which induces cancerous cells to close themselves down. He is trying to find out what this is.

“Cancer starts when the DNA code within the cell’s nucleus becomes corrupted,” he says. “It seems frankincense has a re-set function. It can tell the cell what the right DNA code should be.

“Frankincense separates the ‘brain’ of the cancerous cell – the nucleus – from the ‘body’ – the cytoplasm, and closes down the nucleus to stop it reproducing corrupted DNA codes.”

[...]

There are 17 active agents in frankincense essential oil,” says Dr Suhail. “We are using a process of elimination. We have cancer sufferers – for example, a horse in South Africa – and we are giving them tiny doses of each agent until we find the one which works.”

I'll work with it and seek out a good, as you said, "homeopathic" dilution.

Also, after reading in this SoTT article 'Grapeseed extract is better than Chemotherapy', printed it out and partner picked up a bottle of Grape Seed extract; and Jack's new Doc. who also read the article, said it would be good to use, according to my partner.

Thank you for the other links you also provided - SoTT does not miss much - a wealth of information! :cool2:

Chrissy, i've been thinking about the lipo-vit c since you brought it up and am going to continue with this, yet as Olesya mentioned, have reevaluated Goats Milk and have ramped up bone broth (using organic pork bone) to replace daily.

shellycheval, had watched a video with a Thoroughbred race horse that went lame and he now fills his days with painting - can't find that particular video, yet here is a similar one http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NB4lVmL5wkU about the horse, Cholla. I'll keep working with Jack, an animal with such joy with a strong spirit. For all of us who have animals and have lost them (N2F more recently), it is a privilege to be with them and an honor to help them, as they give so much back - very special companions indeed. :hug2:
 
voyageur said:
Chrissy, i've been thinking about the lipo-vit c since you brought it up and am going to continue with this, yet as Olesya mentioned, have reevaluated Goats Milk and have ramped up bone broth (using organic pork bone) to replace daily.

We are also doing bone broth for Roxie. It seems we are following the same protocol as Jack when he was first brought to the vet. Roxie was limping badly on her left, hind leg and after they took xrays, there was a spot on her hip joint that concerned them a great deal. They confirmed that she had arthritis on both hips at the top, but this spot on the bottom looked a lot different. They gave me pain meds and an anti-inflamitory for her to take for two weeks and then she will be re-xrayed. So far, I can see improvement, but she is still kicking that leg out as she walks and not bearing all her weight on it. I'm still remaining hopeful that it's just arthritis, but waiting for the follow up visit. In the mean time, I'm trying to do what I can as far as diet and supplements and giving her much love. You mentioned Jack's girlfriend, Cassie, and the affection they show each other and I am finding the same situation here with our male lab. The other morning he was cuddled up next to Roxie on the same bed and every so often comes over and gives her a big lick on her face.
 
Chrissy said:
voyageur said:
Chrissy, i've been thinking about the lipo-vit c since you brought it up and am going to continue with this, yet as Olesya mentioned, have reevaluated Goats Milk and have ramped up bone broth (using organic pork bone) to replace daily.
We are also doing bone broth for Roxie.

This, osit, is something that may well benefit our dogs, the same as for us.

It seems we are following the same protocol as Jack when he was first brought to the vet. Roxie was limping badly on her left, hind leg and after they took xrays, there was a spot on her hip joint that concerned them a great deal.

Perhaps you could post the x-ray for other eyes to assess; did the vet discuss Hip Dysplasia or just artritic joints? I remember this being sometimes prevalent in certain breeds, like Lab's or Golden retrievers.

They confirmed that she had arthritis on both hips at the top, but this spot on the bottom looked a lot different. They gave me pain meds and an anti-inflamitory for her to take for two weeks and then she will be re-xrayed. So far, I can see improvement, but she is still kicking that leg out as she walks and not bearing all her weight on it. I'm still remaining hopeful that it's just arthritis, but waiting for the follow up visit. In the mean time, I'm trying to do what I can as far as diet and supplements and giving her much love. You mentioned Jack's girlfriend, Cassie, and the affection they show each other and I am finding the same situation here with our male lab. The other morning he was cuddled up next to Roxie on the same bed and every so often comes over and gives her a big lick on her face.

I hope the other spot noticed is something not overwhelming, as if it is not already. Concerning arthritis, of course eliminating any possibility of food inflammation seems to be what you are doing and then adding some supplements etc. that can help ease the effects. Are you using DMSO with Roxie - it might also help. Along the same lines, anecdotally, my uncle who i've not seen in over 20 years (he is now 89) and the family here, got together recently and he showed me that he was in such an arthritic state that he would use the fingers on one hand to pry open the fingers in the other; they were almost fused shut (this was everyday). His physician (a new one) prescribed a form of THC for his other ailment, Glaucoma, (he said they were small pills he used before bed) and then went on to show me how in helping reduce the Glaucoma, his fingers had healed; no pain, no restriction of movement whatsoever. I kind of filed that away and was going to review, yet it might be something to research if it helps - and i don't know if Canines could take something like this?

All my best to you with your treatment of Roxie's prognosis and am happy he has another friend, like Cassie, to help offer comfort. :hug:
 
Voyageur, I found this through my daily pet and human health searches and thought of Jack so I'll share the link below, It deals with an acupuncture/pressure point found to be effective in reducing bone cancer tumors in animals. I know you must be getting loads of information to read through and consider employing on Jack so I do hope I am not over loading you, and I do hope Jack is calm, comfortable and as happy as he can be in this. :)

http://www.reikiforallcreatures.com/blog/2013/09/16/new-study-finds-st36-is-an-acupuncture-point-effective-in-reducing-malignant-bone-cancer-tumor/
 
NinaMosi said:
Voyageur, I found this through my daily pet and human health searches and thought of Jack so I'll share the link below, It deals with an acupuncture/pressure point found to be effective in reducing bone cancer tumors in animals. I know you must be getting loads of information to read through and consider employing on Jack so I do hope I am not over loading you, and I do hope Jack is calm, comfortable and as happy as he can be in this. :)

http://www.reikiforallcreatures.com/blog/2013/09/16/new-study-finds-st36-is-an-acupuncture-point-effective-in-reducing-malignant-bone-cancer-tumor/

Thanks for the information, trying to consider all avenues.

...The University of Minnesota and Medical College of Wisconsin researchers suggest that the ability of acupuncture to reduce bone tumor growth and lung metastasis may be related to its ability to reduce tumor associated inflammation.

I bring up St36 a lot, as it is a very useful point for so many issues. This study has shown that it may actually stop the growth of Osteosarcoma tumors as well as prevent cancer from metastasizing to the lungs There is still a debate whether Acupuncture is contraindicated for Cancer but for bone cancer it may actually be a helpful.

There have been several studies that indicate that large breed dogs who are neutered or spayed before one year of age tend to be more likely to have Osteosarcoma or bone cancer so if your pup is a rescue or was spayed or neutered early St36 would be a great point to use on a daily or weekly basis as a preventitive measure.

Jack's holistic vet last week used a laser type device (i was not there) on what she described were his meridian points; one such point was somewhere near the webbing on one of his toe's.

I think this is similar to what you presented, although not certain.

He is still going strong, which is very amazing despite what the x-ray revealed, and we have let him have much more freedom (under a watchful eye); much joy still in his life. :)
 
voyageur said:
NinaMosi said:
Voyageur, I found this through my daily pet and human health searches and thought of Jack so I'll share the link below, It deals with an acupuncture/pressure point found to be effective in reducing bone cancer tumors in animals. I know you must be getting loads of information to read through and consider employing on Jack so I do hope I am not over loading you, and I do hope Jack is calm, comfortable and as happy as he can be in this. :)

http://www.reikiforallcreatures.com/blog/2013/09/16/new-study-finds-st36-is-an-acupuncture-point-effective-in-reducing-malignant-bone-cancer-tumor/

Thanks for the information, trying to consider all avenues.

...The University of Minnesota and Medical College of Wisconsin researchers suggest that the ability of acupuncture to reduce bone tumor growth and lung metastasis may be related to its ability to reduce tumor associated inflammation.

I bring up St36 a lot, as it is a very useful point for so many issues. This study has shown that it may actually stop the growth of Osteosarcoma tumors as well as prevent cancer from metastasizing to the lungs There is still a debate whether Acupuncture is contraindicated for Cancer but for bone cancer it may actually be a helpful.

There have been several studies that indicate that large breed dogs who are neutered or spayed before one year of age tend to be more likely to have Osteosarcoma or bone cancer so if your pup is a rescue or was spayed or neutered early St36 would be a great point to use on a daily or weekly basis as a preventitive measure.

Jack's holistic vet last week used a laser type device (i was not there) on what she described were his meridian points; one such point was somewhere near the webbing on one of his toe's.

I think this is similar to what you presented, although not certain.

He is still going strong, which is very amazing despite what the x-ray revealed, and we have let him have much more freedom (under a watchful eye); much joy still in his life. :)


Voyageur,

No, the meridian point is in a different location on the body as the article will give you a description and shows a picture of where it is located on the animal.

I am very glad Jack is showing such great strength in this whole ordeal and is receiving so much supportive love and care from his family and from a wonderful veterinary doctor (a rare gem, this vet. is). :)
 
Voyager just caught up with this thread. I'm really sorry that things turned out for the negative. But the story of the strength of Jack is beautiful.

Chrissy very sorry to hear about Roxie.

I know that its hard to look at it that way right now, "but all there is are lessons".

Hugs to both of you, as you can see you are not alone. :hug2:


On another note and I don't know if this info will exactly help with Jack or Roxie, but perhaps it will help someone.

Don't know what to make of this but somehow toady through a bunch of unrelated articles, I got to this info about polyethylene glycol.

snip from wiki:

“When attached to various protein medications, polyethylene glycol allows a slowed clearance of the carried protein from the blood. This makes for a longer-acting medicinal effect and reduces toxicity, and allows longer dosing intervals. Examples include PEG-interferon alpha, which is used to treat hepatitis C, and PEGfilgrastim (Neulasta), which is used to treat neutropenia. It has been shown that polyethylene glycol can improve healing of spinal injuries in dogs.[8] One of the earlier findings, that polyethylene glycol can aid in nerve repair, came from the University of Texas (Krause and Bittner).[9] Polyethylene glycol is also commonly used to fuse B-cells with myeloma cells in monoclonal antibody production”

and I did a search on the forum to see more info and read this from Laura:

“Myeloperoxidase Involvement in H2O2-induced Apoptosis of HL-60 Human Leukemia Cells

Investigators examined the mechanism of H2O2-induced cytotoxicity and its relationship to oxidation in human leukemia cells. The HL-60 promyelocytic leukemia cell line was sensitive to H2O2, and at concentrations up to about 20-25 uM, the killing was mediated by apoptosis. When HL-60 cells were incubated with methimazole or 4-aminobenzoic acid hydrazide, which are inhibitors of myeloperoxidase, they no longer underwent H2O2-induced apoptosis. 197 This strongly supports the primary role of EMOD induced apoptosis in cancer cell cytotoxicity.
Antitumor Therapy via Enzymatic Generation of Hydrogen Peroxide

Investigators studied the antitumor activity of an H2O2-generating enzyme, D-amino acid oxidase (DAO), and its conjugate with polyethylene glycol (PEG; PEG-DAO). To generate cytotoxic H2O2 at the tumor site, PEG-DAO was first administrated i.v. to tumor-bearing mice. After an adequate lag time, the substrate of DAO, D-proline, was injected i.p. This treatment resulted in significant suppression of tumor growth.

PEG-DAO thus delivered together with D-proline produces remarkable antitumor activity via extensive generation of H2O2. 198 “

I apologize if it has already discussed but a search didn’t find the info in this thread.

fwiw.
 
Thank you for the well wishes for Roxie everyone.

voyageur said:
Perhaps you could post the x-ray for other eyes to assess; did the vet discuss Hip Dysplasia or just artritic joints? I remember this being sometimes prevalent in certain breeds, like Lab's or Golden retrievers.

(Snipped...)

I hope the other spot noticed is something not overwhelming, as if it is not already. Concerning arthritis, of course eliminating any possibility of food inflammation seems to be what you are doing and then adding some supplements etc. that can help ease the effects. Are you using DMSO with Roxie - it might also help. Along the same lines, anecdotally, my uncle who i've not seen in over 20 years (he is now 89) and the family here, got together recently and he showed me that he was in such an arthritic state that he would use the fingers on one hand to pry open the fingers in the other; they were almost fused shut (this was everyday). His physician (a new one) prescribed a form of THC for his other ailment, Glaucoma, (he said they were small pills he used before bed) and then went on to show me how in helping reduce the Glaucoma, his fingers had healed; no pain, no restriction of movement whatsoever. I kind of filed that away and was going to review, yet it might be something to research if it helps - and i don't know if Canines could take something like this?

All my best to you with your treatment of Roxie's prognosis and am happy he has another friend, like Cassie, to help offer comfort. :hug:

They never mentioned hip dysplasia. They just said arthritis and cancer. She has an appointment next week and I will ask them about it. I did see improvement with the anti-inflammitory towards the end of the course, but now that she's finished, she's back to not using the leg. From what I understand, long term use of this drug can harm her liver and kidney. They tested these before they gave it to her. They made a big deal about this, but then when we were leaving they said they'd be happy to refill it. :huh: This is a new vet for me and so far I'm not that impressed. They gave me a hard time about the raw diet and that the risk of bacteria exposure from my dogs wasn't worth it. I will look for a holistic vet in the area as you did.
I am getting up to speed on DMSO. I'm reading the book and the thread here. I ordered the liquid form.

That was very interesting about your uncle. I wasn't sure what THC was and when I looked it up, I got references to medical marijuana.??
In the Nature's Healer book on dmso, there was a case where someone's hand was closed shut for a long time and had great results with the dmso therapy.

Big hugs to Jack. I've been thinking of you both. :)
 
Chrissy said:
This is a new vet for me and so far I'm not that impressed. They gave me a hard time about the raw diet and that the risk of bacteria exposure from my dogs wasn't worth it. I will look for a holistic vet in the area as you did.

That's kinda stupid, isn't it? That's the natural diet for dogs (and wolves and other natural predators). They even eat half-rotten meat at times in nature. They get exposure to bacteria and develop immunity and a natural symbiotic relationship with the beneficial ones. Or so I think.
 
NinaMosi said:
Voyageur,

No, the meridian point is in a different location on the body as the article will give you a description and shows a picture of where it is located on the animal.

You are must be referring to St36 point? If so, this may have been done, too. Hopefully I can attend next time this treatment is performed.


I am very glad Jack is showing such great strength in this whole ordeal and is receiving so much supportive love and care from his family and from a wonderful veterinary doctor (a rare gem, this vet. is). :)

She indeed seems to be "rare"; very fortunate to have meet her and this was done through the power of networking. :cool2:

Just going back to a link that was embedded in the original acupuncture point article you posted, and this statement kind of caught my attention:

If acupuncture was applied starting at post-implantation day 7 {discussing in mice}, tumor growth accelerated in male mice but not in female mice. The researchers note that this may suggest that acupuncture “should be performed early in the course of tumor development” as a result of these findings.

Re: neema

“When attached to various protein medications, polyethylene glycol allows a slowed clearance of the carried protein from the blood."

neema said:
I apologize if it has already discussed but a search didn’t find the info in this thread.

fwiw.

Thanks neema, and no, it was not i believe discussed here, and is interesting along with Laura's additional information. I will check the link posted.

SeekinTruth said:
Chrissy said:
This is a new vet for me and so far I'm not that impressed. They gave me a hard time about the raw diet and that the risk of bacteria exposure from my dogs wasn't worth it. I will look for a holistic vet in the area as you did.

That's kinda stupid, isn't it? That's the natural diet for dogs (and wolves and other natural predators). They even eat half-rotten meat at times in nature. They get exposure to bacteria and develop immunity and a natural symbiotic relationship with the beneficial ones. Or so I think.
.
Hi Roxie, your telling of this had a bit of synchronicity as there has been a focus on veterinarians recently in Canada - here is a video link that is worth watching for certain signs. At one point the patient, Marshall, aka the Fido-sleuth, identified a test result that directed the owner to their "special food", and then it was realized that the test itself is perhaps owned by the food manufacturer.

Barking Mad - _http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/episodes/2013-2014/barking-mad

Roxie needs another set of good trained eyes, and there are many good veterinarians out there. I sure hope that a beneficial treatment can be found.
 
I was reading today a lot about wolfs in relation to the dogs, although certainly genetically they are very different now after all of that breeding. My first question came from the fact that many wild animals produce enough of the Vitamin C to heal themselves, so the question was/is: do the dogs have the same capability? And if the answer is 'yes' , maybe, this ability is reduced when dogs are sick. Next question was/is, what exact amount of vitamin C is needed to heal? Apparently, there is a debate on that, but here _http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/canine-nutrition/dogs-vitamin-c/ it says that
Unlike humans who require vitamin C to sustain life, dogs possess the natural ability to make their own. Without vitamin C humans get a disease called scurvy — and die. Yet dogs do just fine without it. However, there have been some reports claiming that vitamin C could help in the treatment of bladder infections. Or even hip dysplasia.

Unfortunately, those claims have never been scientifically confirmed by research. So, don’t worry if you don’t find vitamin C — or any of the fruits or vegetables that naturally contain it — on your dog food’s ingredient list.
Your dog can take care of that missing nutrient all by herself.

Well, it's a really bold claim. It needs to be confirmed and thought through. Although we do know already from reading the materials on Hemochromatosis that humans with certain genetic alterations can get numerous diseases including cancer because of iron overload and vitamin C can exacerbate this condition, causing accumulation of iron in certain organs. I still don't have answer to that. Maybe, if a dog it's the meat of the animals who produce high concentrations of vitamin C would be enough? What SeekingTruth mentioned about wolves feeding their pups regurgitated food seems also interesting. Seems like saliva and gastric juices mixed with chewed meat facilitate the absorption of nutrients into the pup's bodies, and doesn't burden their digestive system and the whole body too much.

Now, about what neema posted on ethylene glycol. It gives me uneasy feeling, mostly because it's a synthetic substance. And there is more. From here _http://www.ehow.com/info_8512231_polyethylene-glycol-natural-alternatives.html
Abundant alarmist and contradictory information is published on this compound, mostly by individuals in the field of alternative health. Alarmist reports exaggerate research and inconclusively point to danger. However, a careful analysis of recent research and studies done on polyethylene glycol indicates little support for these reported dangers.

The biggest danger of consumption of polyethylene glycol compounds is hypersensitivity and possible accumulation within the body. This is best averted by being conscious of the amount of PEG compounds you take into your body. Read all labels and integrate natural options whenever possible, like holistic approaches. However; polyethylene glycol is often grouped into a category of cancer-causing chemicals, generating unneeded worry and concern. Sometimes, the most effective solution is a chemical compound that has possible side effects. If you experience hypersensitivity, are allergic to PEG or have experienced side effects, a variety of alternative remedies are available.

Looks like a big experiment to me. Even for a sick person I would think twice or many times over before considering it, but for a sick dog? How would one know, if the dog has hypersensitivity to it? If the dog is sick, he is mostly likely hypersensitive to many things already.

And then later, in the same article,

Laxative Natural Alternatives

Used as a laxative, polyethylene glycol 3350 is known as PEG 3350 or MiraLax. Many natural alternatives relieve constipation including increased water consumption, increased fiber consumption, aloe, rhubarb, probiotics, magnesium and acupressure. A variety of teas also have proven medicinal affects on constipation including dandelion, goldenseal and milk thistle.

When reading about acupressure, I remembered that at some point when my daughter was very young, and after she got sick with a scarlet fever, and was given antibiotic ( I was given her probiotics after that, but her digestion wasn't improving), I was considering accupressure treatment for her. I read about some Japanese technique used especially for children, but couldn't find a practitioner of this art. Here is some information on that _http://www.japaneseacupuncture.ca/acupuncture/#what_japanese
ENSHIN NEEDLE AND TEISHIN NEEDLE (NON-INSERTED NEEDLES)

The term "needle" is used loosely to define these instruments. An enshin needle is roughly the thickness of a pencil with a rounded end at one end and a small blunt point at the other. It is about 5 cm in length. A teishin needle has a rounded but sharper tip than the enshin needle and is longer in length (about 10 cm). Keiri Inoue invented the spring-loaded teishin, which makes it easier to control the pressure applied to specific points. Both are crafted of stainless steel.

These non-inserted needles are used exclusively for rubbing and pressing methods for very sensitive patients, children, and needle-phobic patients. Children are almost always more sensitive than adults. In Japan, non-inserted needles are used for the practice of shonishin, a pediatric acupuncture method.

[...]

RYU (PRESS-SPHERE)

The press-sphere is a stainless steel ball bearing usually no bigger than 2 mm in diameter. It is secured to a circular piece of tape that can then be pressed onto the skin. In Japan, the press-spheres are placed mostly on body points that are particularly sore and retained for a maximum of three to four days.

They can be used instead of an intra-dermal needle on children, sensitive patients and patients who are needle-phobic.

Press-spheres can be very useful when applied to points in different micro-systems such as the Chinese auricles or Korean hand points.

There is a lot of information about wolves that I'm still trying to process, so I'll just post the links to the materials I've read. I didn't know where to post these links. In our 2D friends thread?

_http://lightyears.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/05/wolves-eat-elk-make-yellowstone-a-better-place-researchers-say/

_http://www.wolfweb.com/diet.html

_http://www.kidsplanet.org/tt/wolf/intro/faq.pdf

_http://listverse.com/2012/04/14/top-10-little-known-facts-about-wolves/

_http://www.wolfcountry.net/information/WolfHunting.html

_http://www.wolfspirits.org/aboutwolves.html

And voyager and Chrissy, I wish you well and my best wishes for your dogs, Jack and Roxie, and speedy recovery to both. :hug2:
 

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