Canine Bone Cancer

[Voyageur]

Just catching up with the very cool little puppies in another thread and heading to bed, however, just giveing another brief on our dog's progress. So basically, he has gone from a dire prognosis, which may be correct as it was seen by the Vet(s) and by his physicality, to now just shy of two weeks ahead and i just do not what to say based on his recovery. Today he is walking with only tell-tail signs of weakness, yet walking and wanting to jump in excitement during mealtimes - he had a special little outing today to escape his house-boundedness.

This is Jack in the water today. I still keep his harness on and hold on when needed and he is looking at me like, "hey, i'm feeling way better, you don't have to hold me":



Thank you for this network and help! :)

 

[sairie]

voyageur, Thank you for the update and wonderful picture of the handsome Jack!

What is his mix? I am so glad he is feeling better and has the desire to get out to have some fun! :D

Sleep tight all of you.

 

[Voyageur]

What is his mix?

Think he is an American Red Nose.

He came to us, not out of choice; which included much reluctance due to some general breeding realities, horrible (in the news) owners and much stereotyping. Yet arrive he did some 10 years ago as a pup, and, well he became an important family and community member and helped shatter fears.

There is an association in San Fransisco that i was directed to look into called 'BadRap" _http://dogtrekker.com/YP.aspx?id=1208 and it taught me a number of things.

Again today, took him to the river and this time (along with his GF), we went on an extended walk to help strengthen his muscles. His malady was hardly noticeable at the time, although i tempered his wanting to run. He has restricted access (gated stairs and ramp) and is monitored continually, yet today he negotiated the ramp to the back of the house without assistance and with a strong semi-even gate. Tonight he was a little slower with slight favoring of the leg, yet it is becoming stronger each day - so day by day we go onward.

He is still getting 50mg's of Tramadol (of 100mg's prescribed - twice daily) and will try eliminating this - think he will do just fine without.

 

[Leòmhann]

A most handsome chap !! :) Thank you so much for sharing, voyageur! :) Awesome!

 

[sairie]

What is his mix?

Think he is an American Red Nose.

He came to us, not out of choice; which included much reluctance due to some general breeding realities, horrible (in the news) owners and much stereotyping. Yet arrive he did some 10 years ago as a pup, and, well he became an important family and community member and helped shatter fears.

There is an association in San Fransisco that i was directed to look into called 'BadRap" _http://dogtrekker.com/YP.aspx?id=1208 and it taught me a number of things.

Again today, took him to the river and this time (along with his GF), we went on an extended walk to help strengthen his muscles. His malady was hardly noticeable at the time, although i tempered his wanting to run. He has restricted access (gated stairs and ramp) and is monitored continually, yet today he negotiated the ramp to the back of the house without assistance and with a strong semi-even gate. Tonight he was a little slower with slight favoring of the leg, yet it is becoming stronger each day - so day by day we go onward.

He is still getting 50mg's of Tramadol (of 100mg's prescribed - twice daily) and will try eliminating this - think he will do just fine without.

Thank you, for the news and information!

I can see looking at the picture you have posted for us to see that he does have a kind of 'rose' colored nose. I feel lucky to have met Jack even if it is from a great distance. He is a wonderful in so many ways!

I am very happy to hear he is coming along so well too!!!

How sweet of the handsome, charming Jack to take his GF along on his walk!

Again, thank you, voyageur !

 

[Bluestar]

So wonderful to hear Jack is feeling better.

 

[Keit]

So wonderful to hear Jack is feeling better.

I agree! Really happy for you and Jack! And just in case it was mentioned and I missed it, have you decided to decline the biopsy option, or chose to try it out?

 

[Guardian]

There is an association in San Fransisco that i was directed to look into called 'BadRap" _http://dogtrekker.com/YP.aspx?id=1208 and it taught me a number of things.

Bad rap indeed! Pitties are WONDERFUL dogs who are often blamed for the actions of stupid, and sometimes downright evil, owners!

I'm sooooo glad to read that Jack is doing better! It's sounds like you are about to be as shocked and pleasantly surprised as I was to find what a HUGE difference feeding our carnivorous companions raw meat makes in their overall health and well-being. :)

 

[Voyageur]

There is an association in San Fransisco that i was directed to look into called 'BadRap" _http://dogtrekker.com/YP.aspx?id=1208 and it taught me a number of things.

Bad rap indeed! Pitties are WONDERFUL dogs who are often blamed for the actions of stupid, and sometimes downright evil, owners!

I'm sooooo glad to read that Jack is doing better! It's sounds like you are about to be as shocked and pleasantly surprised as I was to find what a HUGE difference feeding our carnivorous companions raw meat makes in their overall health and well-being. :)

What is amazing is how sociable they can be with dogs of all kinds, kittens, and so much so with people. He once had a hummingbird hit the window and flop to his feet while he was lying down - he did not flinch and seemed concerned, protecting the little fellow until it could shake off the effects and fly off.

Once on a beach in San Fransisco, there were so many people out walking their dogs and a great many were these types, jumping in the surf, chasing each other and having just a great time.

So wonderful to hear Jack is feeling better.

I agree! Really happy for you and Jack! And just in case it was mentioned and I missed it, have you decided to decline the biopsy option, or chose to try it out?

This is a serious question Keit, and no, you did not miss it and is a question that i'm grappling with presently. There is a holistic veterinarian who has been away on holidays and is spoken about in high regard that i'm waiting to contact. I'm also of mind to take him back to his local vet; who incidentally never indicated that i should biopsy when asked - kind of discouraged it, as said before. Perhaps knowing that amputation and chemo was not going to happen, he thought, is there any point - i just don't know. I certainly don't want to be derelict in not doing it if it should be done, yet if tested positive for cancerous bone, then what would this mean for him more than i am doing? If negative test results; which may then align with what you said about arthritic bone, then the same may be true with trying to give him what we can; although it could be more specific.

Another thing, is that he is loosing weight more than expected, this could just be the raw diet transition, yet it could be other. He is however eating lots, stools are good, he does limp slightly still (seems to wain and wax), yet is not in visible pain. I am not yet confident in not monitor his movements, yet overall, he has new found strength.

Anyway, i hear you what you are saying Keit, and am thinking about it every day.

Thanks.

 

[Keit]

I certainly don't want to be derelict in not doing it if it should be done, yet if tested positive for cancerous bone, then what would this mean for him more than i am doing? If negative test results; which may then align with what you said about arthritic bone, then the same may be true with trying to give him what we can; although it could be more specific.

Another thing, is that he is loosing weight more than expected, this could just be the raw diet transition, yet it could be other. He is however eating lots, stools are good, he does limp slightly still (seems to wain and wax), yet is not in visible pain. I am not yet confident in not monitor his movements, yet overall, he has new found strength.

Anyway, i hear you what you are saying Keit, and am thinking about it every day.

Thanks.

Oh, no, I hope I didn't give the wrong impression that biopsy is somehow required. It certainly isn't, especially when it is far from pleasant and will cause Jack additional pain. The reason behind my question was curiosity, specifically regarding possible effects of raw diet on either of the diagnoses.

 

[Voyageur]

I certainly don't want to be derelict in not doing it if it should be done, yet if tested positive for cancerous bone, then what would this mean for him more than i am doing? If negative test results; which may then align with what you said about arthritic bone, then the same may be true with trying to give him what we can; although it could be more specific.

Another thing, is that he is loosing weight more than expected, this could just be the raw diet transition, yet it could be other. He is however eating lots, stools are good, he does limp slightly still (seems to wain and wax), yet is not in visible pain. I am not yet confident in not monitor his movements, yet overall, he has new found strength.

Anyway, i hear you what you are saying Keit, and am thinking about it every day.

Thanks.

Oh, no, I hope I didn't give the wrong impression that biopsy is somehow required. It certainly isn't, especially when it is far from pleasant and will cause Jack additional pain. The reason behind my question was curiosity, specifically regarding possible effects of raw diet on either of the diagnoses.

Hi Keit, the interpretation was all my doing, so no need to feel embarrassed by your curiosity, understand what you are saying and i know you have helped me a great deal in looking at this. The effects of the diet and additives have been, well, astounding. He has been off Tramadol now for two full days (from a 50% dose) and there is noting to indicate he needs this. His energy level speaks of wanting freewill to roam and run, yet this is being highly tempered - he is not happy with me, nor is his GF. He is eating/drinking most energetically and having regularly movements. I still have not received the ordered Boswellian product so am continuing with a reduced dose of the liquid anti-inflammatory. Also, with no way to actually know, the Lipo-c may have been a helpful factor.

Of course knowing the effects of what he is ingesting to that of the original diagnosis can only, i think, be done by either a biopsy or another attempt at x-ray (that would not be pleasant for him either). So at this stage, which has no scientific measure other than observations, i'll continue with doing what we can with what has been learned and see where it takes him - will also check in with the local vet and the holistic vet when she is back.

What is remarkable, is that in thinking then upon leaving the vet with his original diagnosis that he would be where he is now, this could not have been envisioned then and am beyond words for the encouragement that has been given here by you and all others.

 

[Olesya]

Hi, voyager, I'm glad to hear that your dog is feeling much better with a diet change. That's good news! Maybe, you can discuss with your holistic vet a possibility of adding to your protocol DMSO or DMSO with sodium bicarbonate external applications. I couldn't find the exact protocol for dogs with bone cancer, but, maybe, what worked for people will work for dogs too?

From _http://www.earthclinic.com/Pets/cancer.html#BSDMSO

Baking Soda, DMSO
04/10/2013: Bobbi from Boca Raton, Florida: "What is the protocol for sodium bicarbonate and DMSO for a 17 lb canine with a huge mast cell tumor? She had surgery back in September to remove a tumor. It came back 4 months later. She is on a natural treatment called tumexal but it dose not seen to be helping. I read about a solution fo medical grade sodium bicarbonate and DMSO and how effective it is.

From _http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=658276-has-anyone-used-dmso-for-tumors

A friend of mine had a GSD that developed a tumor on the elbow due to an injury. The DMSO helped to shrink the tumor and kept it under control for many years. This person's vet originally said there was no hope to shrink the tumor and Dr. Dodd's recommended trying the DMSO. According to my friend the result of treating his dog with the DMSO was miraculous. I don't know if this information is helpful or not, but I thought I'd share it.

From _http://truthquest2.com/markSircusCancer.htm

Both DMSO and sodium bicarbonate will pass the blood/brain barrier; the above described methods can be used by brain tumor patients.
The solution will also penetrate bone structures, if the cancer is in the bone marrow, like in case of leukemia.
Please keep in mind that an intravenous application is always on a much higher level as far as efficacy goes than topical, oral or injected treatment. However, if the patient has no access to intravenous therapy, the topical application of DMSO/sodium bicarbinate is a very promising one.

From _http://defeatosteosarcoma.org/category/generalcancerresearch/page/128/

Dimethyl Sulfoxide (DMSO)

In August 1995, Dr. Julian Whitaker, M.D., relayed his own experience with DMSO, when a basal cell carcinoma (about the size of a dime) appeared on his ear. A dermatologist recommended surgical removal of the cancerous portion and a skin graft replacement. Instead, Dr. Whitaker made a paste from shark cartilage, vitamin C, and DMSO and applied the mixture to the lesion daily. Within 3.5 weeks, the basal cell had completely disappeared. Stanley Jacob, M.D., professor at the Oregon Health Sciences University (Portland) suspected DMSO was the hero, although Dr. Whitaker has confidence in the full formula (Whitaker 1995).

The Sealy Center for Molecular Sciences reported that DMSO, administered either before or 15 minutes after TNF-alpha, blocked 80% of NF-kB. By suppressing TNF-alpha and NF-kB, DMSO broke an inflammatory cascade that otherwise terminates in an onslaught of potentially damaging cytokines (Vlahopoulos et al. 1999).

DMSO is an excellent transporter of other therapies into cancerous cells. In fact, many offshore cancer clinics consider it the standard for all patients who are undergoing various therapies.

Hope it helps :) Best wishes to you, and speedy recovery to your dog.

 

[Voyageur]

Hi, voyager, I'm glad to hear that your dog is feeling much better with a diet change. That's good news! Maybe, you can discuss with your holistic vet a possibility of adding to your protocol DMSO or DMSO with sodium bicarbonate external applications. I couldn't find the exact protocol for dogs with bone cancer, but, maybe, what worked for people will work for dogs too?

DMSO is an excellent transporter of other therapies into cancerous cells. In fact, many offshore cancer clinics consider it the standard for all patients who are undergoing various therapies.

Hope it helps :) Best wishes to you, and speedy recovery to your dog.

Thank you for the added information, Olesya. Presently he is receiving DMSO gel to his shoulder, the vet gave it to me (reluctantly), and yet he also put little or no stock in its abilities - think otherwise. Although i've not mixed it with sodium bicarbonate (topically), this he is getting within the process of Lipo-c, so perhaps externally and internally, as applicable, they both interact and help each other; i'm just not sure. I'll certainly discuss this aspect with the holistic vet when we meet.

As an aside, forgot to document here how when thinking he had lost weight, this was not exactly so. Dropped by the vet's office and walked him up onto their scale (the vet was out) and asked what the weight was the day he came in for x-rays. That day he was 36 kg. and this day he was 35 kg., so not sure what's up with that. His harness seems to be swimming on him now, while before it was snug, and this may have lent to the illusion of his weight loss. The fact that his weight it is steady, while not being physically active, seems interesting - more ketogenic burning?

 

[Guardian]

The fact that his weight it is steady, while not being physically active, seems interesting - more ketogenic burning?

When I changed Lily over to the raw meat diet, her weight began to redistribute very rapidly. I think she basically lost her "wheat belly" and began turning her food into muscle instead?

 

[Voyageur]

Here is a quick update that was delayed pending waiting to see the new (holistic) veterinarian.

I did not attend this session between the vet and our two furry friends, however, the vet spent an hour and a half with them both - more time to Jack. The original x-rays were brought and viewed and he was carefully checked out. Like others here in the know with x-rays (and they only read a photo interpretation), the vet said:

1. It would be very helpful to have had both shoulders depicted as comparison.
(a) the vet did not suggest biopsy, however did suggest new photo's and only with mild sedative with me there with him.
2. Although cancer cannot be ruled out, as there are signs, it can be other things (did he have an injury - that shard could be something displaced that calcified...unknowns).
3. At least now, Jack does not exhibit a typical dog with bone cancer - the signs are not overtly present and with bone cancer, they would be noticeable.
4. Vet - very happy the diet has changed - big, big help.
5. What you are giving him is just fine (leave out the egg unless they are hard boiled - Boswellia great, Vit C fine, EFA good - added "Ganoderma (Reishi) mushroom supplement, and something called SE2 (has vitB12 & K1 _http://bcater.stemtechbiz.ca/SE2.aspx - it seems a little pyramidish as a sales product - don't know).
6. Presented a very comprehensive diet (menus) based on observations (i'll try and copy it here). For Jack he needs more fish (cool diet as opposed to hotter diet).

It has been six weeks and i still do not let him do stairs, he is often stiff after laying around (so would i be) and limps at this point slightly, however it improves to where you almost do not notice. He does have a slight bulge on the shoulder in question (this looks to be that shard/fragment area), and it could be considered tumorous, yet Jack does not react if it is touched or manipulated now as he once did.

He is behaving almost the way he always did - will carry on...