Canning meat/what Equipment is needed, how much canning is necessary

[Gwenllian]

I think it is just the question with wich term you must search to find those manufacturing firms of jars and lids in your country. try to you use words like lids, jars and such. I'm pretty certain that many countries have those firms where you can get the jars and lids much cheeper! I get mine for a little ofer 0,50 € each (with the lids)!

Can I ask which lid you ordered, Pasphalis? And is it suitable for canning? I am only used to these Weck jars, that is why I am asking.

I have had a look at the website and they also ship to Austria. So I will ask them if they can also ship to The Netherlands.

Thanks for this!

Fwiw these are twist off lids like this one here:

_http://www.flaschenbauer.de/catalog/product/view/id/265/s/twist-off-verschluesse-82-mm-gold/category/49/

And if you select a glass the fitting lids can be chosen

you can't just choose any lids in fact this lid doesn't have the criteria needed for canning meat in a canner!
as I stated in reply 65:

just a notice that I tested the jars and lids and they work great so I now bought it in a large quantity.

If you cann meat you need to get a lid that is sterilisation proofed .

I bought and tested this one http://www.flaschenbauer.de/verschluesse/twist-off-verschluesse.html/twist-off-verschluesse-82-mm-blau-w.html
(you can get the same type of lid in green and red, but as far as I saw they are only available at this website in the size of 82 mm)
and also make sure that you get the right size of lids that fit onto the jar!

on the website I ordered there are only three different lids that you can use for canning meat (see reply 65) and those three are all the same exept of the colour.

here is what you can read on the lid I'm using:

german:

Twist off Verschlüsse 82 mm blau/weiß kariert. Passend für alle mit entsprechender Mündung ausgestatteten Gläser. Sterilisationsfest z.B. für Fleisch- und Wurstwaren.

english translation:

Twist off lids 82 mm blue/white checked. Fit on all appropriate glas mouths. sterilisation proofed, for example for meat and sausage products.

you have to buy lids that meet the creteria sterilisation proofed(Sterilisationsfest) all others are not disigned for the temperatures and pressure that is needed when canning meat!

and by the way Mariama my name is Pashalis and not Phasphalis. I know it is tricky name ;)


Edit: translation of the lid description

Thanks, Pashalis, I completely missed that post and I read the whole thread.

 

[Gawan]

Thanks Aragorn, Sebbe and nicklebleu!

Yes, I use ca 11PSI, too. For example, 11PSI is recommended in the Presto manual for 'meat chunks'. It isn't good to use too much pressure for too long, either; if the temperature gets too high, it can do funny things to the meat. A pressure of 10PSI or slightly over will usually get you a temperature of 240F, which, according to studies will destroy the botulinum and it's spores. Also, as I've understood, the 90minutes of processing time is an "exaggeration" for safety reasons. But I think it's a good idea to stick to that time, just to make sure.

ADDED: Gawan, have you considered buying the 3-piece pressure regulator set for your Presto (you have a Presto, right?) I don't have those yet, but I've understood that it makes things a lot easier. Here's a link:
http://amzn.com/B000HMBVQ8

That's also a possibility only the stops are at 5, 10 and 15.

Gawan,

What I do is to put the pressure cooker eccentrically onto the plate, that means, I only put part of it onto the cooktop (so that the cooker effectively stands on two cooktops). That way you can pretty much adjust the temperature anyway you want. It also works if you have a gas cooktop, but then you have to be careful not to burn off handles and such and you may have to build some kind of ramp to sustain it.

Hope that helps!

It does and it did work out with another water test run to keep the pressure where I wanted. The tricky thing was, cause the pot is so huge the ground plate of the cooker does not cover the entire surface of it until I did look from the bottom and did adjust it accordingly.

 

[sebbe]

Gawan :

The tricky thing was, cause the pot is so huge the ground plate of the cooker does not cover the entire surface of it until I did look from the bottom and did adjust it accordingly

There is another solution. You can buy a "tripatte". The power must be under 12000 BTU, and then, you will not have this problem anymore.

 

[aragorn]

That's also a possibility only the stops are at 5, 10 and 15.

Yes, but I've read some guys 'tweaking' the weights, putting a piece of additional weight on the 10PSI piece. I don't know if this is a recommended thing to do, but it sounds like a possible thing to do to keep the pressure at little over 10PSI.

 

[nicklebleu]

I've done a trial run with bone broth. The bone broth I usually make is thick and creamy. The one I got out of the pressure canner has somehow separated: Fat on top, then probably gelatin and meat and water at the bottom. Has anyone experienced the same? Can you reconstitute the consistency by just mixing it up again?

Problem at this stage for me is that I only have my small canner available, which only has two settings: 8.5 psi and 15 psi (and no gauge to read the pressure). So I canned the broth at 15 psi, but only for 20 minutes.

 

[Ollie]

I've done a trial run with bone broth. The bone broth I usually make is thick and creamy. The one I got out of the pressure canner has somehow separated: Fat on top, then probably gelatin and meat and water at the bottom. Has anyone experienced the same? Can you reconstitute the consistency by just mixing it up again?

Problem at this stage for me is that I only have my small canner available, which only has two settings: 8.5 psi and 15 psi (and no gauge to read the pressure). So I canned the broth at 15 psi, but only for 20 minutes.

This is quite normal with canning. And, yes, on opening and reheating it will come back to how you started.

 

[Don Genaro]

I think it is just the question with wich term you must search to find those manufacturing firms of jars and lids in your country. try to you use words like lids, jars and such. I'm pretty certain that many countries have those firms where you can get the jars and lids much cheeper! I get mine for a little ofer 0,50 € each (with the lids)!

Thanks. Indeed I'll keep shopping around over the next few weeks whilst I wait for the canner to arrive :)

For Spain I found a supplier from La Rioja where a quarter jar costs 0.35 cents each and you have to buy the lids separately which is 0.10 cents each.

The lids are the ones Pashalis got. The information is all on the website, they are twist off lids but specifically designed to can meat and they can be sterilized or pasteurized at 120 degrees Celsius. They have their inner seal which functions as the seal of the mason jars and/or double lids. In Spain that is simply what is available as far as I can see. And I phoned everywhere, even the French supermarket here doesn't have French jars. Or you can get the mason jars at 5 times that price shipped from another country, unless you drive to the French border to get them there.

Here is the link for the quarter jars:
http://www.tapasrioja.es/frascos/144-quarter-galon.html

There are ALL sizes and shapes, but I'm going for the quarter ones.

The lids for the quarter jars:
http://www.tapasrioja.es/tapas/165-rts-esterilizable-77mm.html

I will call that the best sale of the week :)

Indeed - great find Psyche! I just did a "trial order" to see the price and 32 quart jars with 50 lids comes to €32 including delivery. I think that's going to be hard to beat :D

 

[Gwenllian]

I just got a reply from flessenland. nl (the link I posted earlier) and apparently their lids are suitable for sterilization, or so they said.

 

[Don Genaro]

I believe I already provided the information about the correct jars to use for canning meat. It has a round, flat, seal that is covered by either a ring screw top or a full screw lid. There must be BOTH. You cannot use jelly jars or anything that does not have the sterilizing seal.

You can also use the ones with the hinged glass lid and thick rubber seal.

Well my canner arrived a lot sooner than expected - only six days! I've been doing a lot of searching for information on using one piece lids as well as looking for cheap two piece lids- I haven't had much luck in either case. It seems that one piece lids are what gets used most in Europe. I think it comes down to the fact that in the U.S. they have the USDA guidelines and we don't have something similar here. I did find an article that talks a little about that here.

The USDA not endorsing a method or product does not automatically make it unsafe. The reasons for endorsement are many, and not all have to do with food safety.

I have canned with reused lug lids for many years (I am 55), and my mother did before me. I grew up eating food canned in such jars, and we never had any spoilage at all--ever. My mother--and I--also used/use two-piece lids right along with the lug lids, in the same pressure or water-bath batch, and there is no difference to the finished product.

It helps to have a comprehensive knowledge of microbiology and sterilization methods, which I do have, to know what the indicators are that jars are sealed and that food is safe. The USDA gives far stricter guidelines than are necessary, to err far on the safe side.

Note that the author is talking about using used lids. So I guess that unless a cheap source of two piece lids and matching jars turns up, I'll be going for the (new, not reused) sterilisation proof jars and lids posted earlier by Psyche.

A question for those who are using the one piece lids- are you having problems with fat/liquids seeping out of the jars? Because I guess that would make their safety questionable...

 

[Cosmos]

A question for those who are using the one piece lids- are you having problems with fat/liquids seeping out of the jars? Because I guess that would make their safety questionable...

no I don't have any problems with that

 

[Don Genaro]

A question for those who are using the one piece lids- are you having problems with fat/liquids seeping out of the jars? Because I guess that would make their safety questionable...

no I don't have any problems with that

And have you canned lard, stock as well as meat? Do you fill to within the standard inch or so of the top?

 

[Cosmos]

And have you canned lard, stock as well as meat? Do you fill to within the standard inch or so of the top?

I didn't cann lard yet but I canned a lot of pig belly wich is quite fat and I filled the jar almost until the top, so it is definitely a lot less then a inch and sometimes the meat touches almost the lid inside.

 

[Don Genaro]

And have you canned lard, stock as well as meat? Do you fill to within the standard inch or so of the top?

I didn't cann lard yet but I canned a lot of pig belly wich is quite fat and I filled the jar almost until the top, so it is definitely a lot less then a inch and sometimes the meat touches almost the lid inside.

Excellent- I'll be getting started after the next payday. Thanks! :D

 

[Gaby]

It seems that one piece lids are what gets used most in Europe. I think it comes down to the fact that in the U.S. they have the USDA guidelines and we don't have something similar here.

I researched about it as well before getting my lids and jars. I got the impression that the two piece lids is mostly an American thing. But you'll find them in France and other countries as well. As far as I understand, as along as you have lids with an inner seal and you can sterilize them at above 110 degrees, then it is endorsed by the Spanish Ministry of Health. You can find in Spain glass jars with the seal and the glass lid with its mechanical closure, but they are VERY expensive. I talked with a main canning glass manufacturer and he said he has never carried the double lid canning jars, that it is something that is simply not used in this country.

You'll find pork and fish canned in glass jars with single lids which is sold in bulk size or in the supermarket. The website where I got mine also specifies that that is what you get if you want to can meat. So that seems the way it is done here.

I got the jars at 0.35 cents each and they arrived. They are very good quality and not one of them broke during transportation. The lids are sturdy as well, and they have their inner seal. I ordered some extra just in case.

 

[Don Genaro]

As far as I understand, as along as you have lids with an inner seal and you can sterilize them at above 110 degrees, then it is endorsed by the Spanish Ministry of Health. You can find in Spain glass jars with the seal and the glass lid with its mechanical closure, but they are VERY expensive.

Yep, the glass-lid jars are about €2.50 here- if I get them there'll be no money left over for meat!!

I talked with a main canning glass manufacturer and he said he has never carried the double lid canning jars, that it is something that is simply not used in this country....The website where I got mine also specifies that that is what you get if you want to can meat. So that seems the way it is done here.

Well I think I'll do as the Romans do in this case...

You'll find pork and fish canned in glass jars with single lids which is sold in bulk size or in the supermarket.

I think I'm going to try canning some sardines too :)