Casiopians are here.

We don't like to be controlled by outside forces, and we don't like to think of ourselves as weak. Somehow we've learned that if we feel our emotions, then we're weak and easy to control. I think this is backwards, if we feel our emotions as deeply as possible then we are strong and in complete control of ourselves. If we suppress/repress our emotions, deny that part of ourselves, then we're spending so much time fighting ourselves that we're so weak that we can easily be controlled by others.

I also think that we're more objective as well. Suppose your watching a movie and something so funny happens that you wee yourself a little from laughing so hard. Then the next time you watch the movie that same part is not as funny as it was the first time. You've already processed that emotion and can now see that part of the movie more objectively.

Another example is when you're really upset. If you cry about it for a few hours or if you just feel the sadness as deeply as possible, then later on you'll find that when you think about what made you upset, you no longer cry about it or feel very sad at all. This is because you've processed the emotion. But if you suppress the sadness so that you don't cry or feel sad about it, then later on when you think about it you might perceive a grand injustice. This is not objective.

I think the same thing occurs with all the emotions.

Please explain what any of this has to do with this topic?
 
My mind is already blown wide open sinds 2005.
I had a massive spiritual awakening.
I had an intake interview for a new job, at that moment nothing strange happened.
But the first real working day, I put in 1 foot over the threshold and spontaneously floated spiritually.
What I have experienced in the 9 months after that is beyond your imagination.
There was a boy that I was drawn to very much.
Telepathy everywhere.
In a very weird way (I call it the materials world) I got to see my whole past (in everything I did wrong, (illegal things, like stealing)
I learned universal laws.
Money was also stolen from me.
My mom gave me money for the hairdresser and it was gone.
I did not told anyone the money was for the hair dresser.
The boy had gone to the hairdresser the next day.
And because I lost the money, my mom cut my hair.
I was already very careful to talk about it with my environment.
But then I was telepathically told that most people who experience this end up in the madhouse, so I was even more careful then.
I have also seen a past life, in that bizarre material world way.
And all of those bizarre coincidences, and other things for 9 months.
Exactly 00:00 on New Year's night I was back on the ground, and it was over.

And you also know that there is more between heaven and earth.
And if you say crazy things to your environment, you can end up in the madhouse.
So I kept my mouth shut.
But it was indeed an experience to go crazy.
But it has made me very strong mentally
So no, I certainly don't have a weak mind.

And I'm not on my high horse here.
Everything I tell is real and fact.

I can not help that I have an interesting life.

Jasophoria, judging by your above post you seem to think that the problem here is whether we believe you. I don't think that's the main issue here. Even if those things did happen to you, the question of whether you could grasp or control such abilities in a manner that would make you a useful forum member would remain. And you haven't shown much evidence that this is in fact the case IMO.


Also i have autism, and I am super sensitive.
I can pick out the phrases here that offend me in every post, and many you probably don't even see.
Right there I see a problem. As Gurdjieff pointed out, the only people who can do The Work are people who are basically healthy with strong nervous systems, good obyvatels, and with no psychological issues.

I don't think this forum is the right place for you.

CME is a bipolar schizophrenic with delusions of grandeur. As we repeatedly state here, we are not medical professionals and are not equipped to deal with such conditions.


I spent the last 9 years woking in an industry that attracts an unusually high percentage of autistic people, and that is Information Technology. Around 5-10% of our employees and contractors were on the autistic spectrum, as opposed to the country's average of 1% reported on this site which I found among government resources on this topic. Intellectually they were absolutely brilliant, above average intelligent, exceptionally talented, quick to learn, with vivid imagination.

However, their people skills required constant monitoring and as part of my role I spent a considerable amount of time preventing, addressing or resolving various issues that arose as a result of their limitations. Most of those difficulties seemed to be related to their lack of the theory of mind and many aspects of this exchange point to this as a possible root cause here too.

Over the years I developed quite a lot of understanding of the autistic spectrum and I saw no problem in hiring professionals with it if they were able to control their impulses. If managed correctly they usually made good employees.

However, whenever they showed tendency towards spiritually - or what's even worse, magical thinking - there were problems. For reasons I do not know, their minds simply aren't able to work with concepts of spirituality effectively enough and if they happened to wander off into the realm of magical thinking results were anywhere between difficult and disastrous for their team members and us as their employer.

Same thing goes for people with schizophrenia. In fact, I noticed certain similarities between "magically thinking" people on the autistic spectrum and schizophrenics.

This is just my personal experience but their brains and minds just don't seem to have the right infrastructure to cope with certain concepts in an effective manner.
 
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I am wondering why so many fellow members are expending there energy here on a conversation that can by default go nowhere. There is a thought form here that says white is black. That is all I see and I see no possibility of changing that reality. No one on either 'side' of the debate is necessarily right or wrong from where they stand. But bananas are not mountains. The C's said it was very important at this this stage for all souls in search of progress to conserve energy and not waste their time in fruitless activities that cannot succeed or deliver. This thread seems fast set on becoming one such example. Maybe its time to change the conversation to more prescient matters and allow this thread to stand as learning for those who come by from here on in - be they bananas or mountains and whatever the learning that so fits their schooling at this juncture. We all are exactly where we are meant to be right now.

My tuppence worth after reading 7 mind numbing pages.
 
Would you say its also very difficult, or nigh impossible, to help them to see that?


Yeah, "nigh impossible" is more like it. In fact, if it is possible I must say I have failed to achieve this.

To use a cooking analogy, such spices as cumin, garlic and marjoram would make a perfect addition to a meat-based dish, but when added to a strawberry cheesecake they'd make the end result rather unpalatable. That doesn't mean there's something wrong with the cheesecake, or the spices. It just means that some things simply don't mix well.

And the same is true for people with autism or schizophrenia - and spirituality. In fact, from what I've seen their interest in spirituality pretty much by default results in magical thinking and grandiose opinion of themselves that just cannot be eradicated. You can manage the expression of such tendencies to some extent by managing their behaviour (mostly by excessive micromanagement, and administering rewards, threats and punishments), but you cannot change what they really think on the inside. A successful internal change would stop the external expression through behaviour and I've never seen that happen.

In other words, the best that can be achieved is management of symptoms, not the cause. Issues of most Working forum members can be traced back to childhood programming, cultural influences, trauma and upbringing. It's one thing to reprogram the 'software' or the brain, it's a whole different story to try to change the 'hardware' with tools we use on the forum. It's like trying to upload Windows 10 onto your broken microwave and hope for a good result.

In my personal experience, there are a number of practical reasons why the Work and the above mentioned mental disorders don't mix.

For most people on the autistic spectrum many interpersonal interactions are a struggle. The type we are talking about don't just think they're just different, they're deeply convinced they're special, gifted, or as one former autistic staff member of mine called it "more evolved".

Given that a common message on the forum is not to take ourselves too seriously and work on our self-importance, such tendencies are at conflict with the work done here, especially that from what I've seen, that sheshulness is usually near self-glorification, and glorofication of the disorder itself.

As Josaphoria stated in another thread:

I have asperger too, and what i learned is, that its not a handicap, but a gift, if you know how too use it.
And if you understand what it means.


Then there is the issue of oversensitivity. To many, if not most individuals with those disorders, their hurt feelings are a sign of superior sensitivity. To us here on the forum it is a sign of snowflakery and/or too much internal consideration. How do we reconcile those two if the former group does not want to let go of their speshulness - and it is us who should adjust?

Then there is the lack of the theory of mind I mentioned above. That lack makes grasping, embracing and actively living out external consideration impossible. Combine that with their grandiose opinion of themselves and you have a person who is fundamentally at odds with the forum principles and code of conduct.


Yes, but what she said has nothing to do with the topic. Encouraging someone to go off on a tangent, when that person has a tendency to do that, is not helpful to them or other members of the forum.

That's another feature of people with Asperger's: they find it very difficult to stop talking about topics that interests them and this too is at odds with the concept of external consideration.

Those who have ever attempted to discuss concepts of spirituality in a face to face interaction with someone suffering from the above mentioned disorders probably noticed the visible intensity of their convictions. Heck, their facial expression often makes Ocasio-Cortez's crazy stare look like innocent puppy eyes in comparison! :scared:
 
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I am wondering why so many fellow members are expending there energy here on a conversation that can by default go nowhere.
Indeed. Looking back at the first post, it probably shouldn't have gone any further than pointing out a few basics and then leaving it at that. Maybe now is a good time to close it.

I can't speak for other participants' motivation but my own was largely connected to the fact that we've recently had quite a few new arrivals to the forum. There are probably some board lurkers still hesitating to take the plunge. The thread can serve as evidence, and hopefully warning, that not everyone who posts on the forum has everything figured out. And that caution is required.

I remember my own lurking years when I thought there was no point joining because I was never going to catch up with that amount of material to have anything useful to say. Everyone seemed so smart, I feared being the dumbest kid in class. And then I bumped into a few exchanges similar to this one. It made me realise that although I may never measure up to the smartest of forumites, there are people who don't seem to 'get it' and they are nevertheless treated kindly, even if the result is mutually beneficial parting ways. That guidance is patiently offered to help calibrate our thinking. And that there are also people who oversee the process of networking to make it safe for those who genuinely want to learn.

That said, I do agree that Josaphoria got more attention than she should have. She's not here to learn anything, but to get attention and admiration to feed her need for feeling special by having her specialness acknowledged and reflected back to her. That's not going to happen so it's best to move on to more useful threads.
 
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I can't speak for other participants' motivation but my own was largely connected to the fact that we've recently had quite a few new arrivals to the forum. There are probably some board lurkers still hesitating to take the plunge. The thread can serve as evidence, and hopefully warning, that not everyone who posts on the forum has everything figured out. And that caution is required.

I remember my own lurking years when I thought there was no point joining because I was never going to catch up with that amount of material to have anything useful to say. Everyone seemed so smart, I feared being the dumbest kid in class. And then I bumped into a few exchanges similar to this one. It made me realise that although I may never measure up to the smartest of forumites, there are people who don't seem to 'get it' and they are nevertheless treated kindly, even if the result is mutually beneficial parting ways. That guidance is patiently offered to help calibrate our thinking. And that there are also people who oversee the process of networking to make it safe for those who genuinely want to learn.

That said, I do agree that Josaphoria got more attention than she should have. She's not here to learn anything, but to get attention and admiration to feed her need for feeling special by having her specialness acknowledged and reflected back to her. That's not going to happen so it's best to move on to more useful threads.

Hi Ant 22. Thanks for the above two posts - very valuable insights. Just so you know, I agree wholeheartedly that these threads, much as they are a struggle for everyone involved, they do offer huge learning and I certainly wasn't meaning to suggest it had been all in vain. My post was more meant as a 'enough is possibly enough now' simply because I thought I could detect increasing potential for stress for all those involved that was not going to lead to valuable resolution and mutual value - something that will become of increasing importance I suspect. And as your subsequent posts reveal, no one other than mods here should determine when enough is enough - as I say I personally really valued what you had to offer by way of added perspectives. Take care. 💞
 
@Ant22, I'm deeply grateful for so many informations that you gave us related to autism & oversensitivity and how is impossible to do The Work for them.

I have ask my self why this thread is still going and why others waste their energy on it, but now I'm glad that they let it go which lead to the point when you explained many things which I didn't understand reading some of the posts here.
 
Ant22, that was very well written and pretty much nails it.

We have two in our extended family in that spectrum, and it is liked you described them, without even knowing them, (maybe you are psychic :-)).

There is one quality that stands out from our experience, and that is that, they are never seemingly able to learn from their mistakes. I am always reminded of the saying, 'the definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over, and expecting different results.' We see that over and over again, and no amount of talking to them, or trying to help them does any good. It is like they are doing things right, but the world is doing it wrong... the world needs to change.

They can make friends easily, but 'wear' them out very quickly with their self-importance, and speshulness. You can kind of see that here, they wear out their welcome pretty fast. And then it is always the other guys fault.

Anyway, just a few thought...🤔
 
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