CERN - Large Hadron Collider Experiment


Dagobah Resident
A colleague from CMS experiment sent me this e-mail an hour ago.

News: 1 April 2010

High energy collisions reveal a paleoparticle

Physicists working on the LHC results have announced their first discovery: a hideous particle from the prehistory of the Universe

The news is historic, or rather "prehistoric" to be more precise! It has taken two physicists studying the collisions at 7 TeV in the centre of mass on 30 March only two days to make an astonishing discovery. From their precise analysis of four events, Alain Grand and Ricarda Owen have found evidence of a new, massive neutral particle thought to have existed in the very early Universe. "It's awful", explains Alain Grand, still shocked by the discovery. "It left horrible tracks inside the detector that made the physicists on duty at the time feel quite sick". No wonder. The particle consists of two strange quarks and one top quark but no beauty or charm quark. The physicists have nicknamed it the "neutrinosaurus" because of its repulsive appearance and prehistoric origins.

Hints of the new particle had already been glimpsed in two events at Fermilab but the statistics were too low to be published. The four events observed at the LHC generated an exponential increase (22=4) in the statistics, allowing the physicists to announce the discovery unequivocally.

The discovery of the particle, which had hitherto been postulated only by an impassioned physicist doing a bit of theory in his spare time, has the potential to turn current theory on its head and to send the entire theory community back to the drawing board. "One important consequence is that all the particles we know today must have had a prehistoric twin", says Ricarda Owen. There will have been a protonosaurus ancestor for the proton (not to be confused with the many-protoned brontosaurus), the electron will have descended from the electronosaurus, and so on. It remains to be seen whether these paleoparticles had antimatter doubles, such as antineutrinosauruses and other antiparticulosauruses. "That's what we're going to be concentrating our efforts on finding now", says Alain Grand. "If they existed, we expect them to be the exact opposite of the paleoparticles we've found so far, in other words extremely elegant". Whatever happens, the discovery has opened up paleoparticle physics as a unique and exciting new field of research!

He also wrote that public seminar was going to be held at CERN about this discovery probably tomorrow, with a webcast. But that it's still only for physicists and a password would be required.
And actually quite a few people (scientists) had contacted him for receiving password and webcast link before one of them reminded everybody that today is April Fools day, even at CERN. :lol:

to mods: Maybe it would be better to put this post under 'Tickle me' board with topic title - 'April Fools at CERN'?


Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
This is bit off topic but I wonder if the Collider manages to transcend densities, by this I mean if any of these experiments being carried out have any effects/or carry through to higher densities? Just a speculative thought :)


FOTCM Member
Interesting that CERN is apparently making it's way into conspiracy theories about earth changes. Maybe it was delayed to 'give them something to talk about' at the appropriate time and divert attention away from the other influences.

"Collider-caused quakes is popular conspiracy theory"

Today's question:
Is it possible that the CERN Large Hadron Collider is acting like a giant tuning fork that sets off all these earthquakes?

The first time I read this I decided it was just too silly to use. However, I checked it out a bit and it turns out that this earthquake idea is very popular among the tin-foil beanie crowd.

Do we all know what the CERN Large Hadron Collider is? It is a giant underground racetrack sort of thing beneath France and Switzerland. Arizona almost got one several years ago, but the idea fell through. It's a long story.

The LHC allows scientists to shoot high-energy beams around at great speeds until they collide and create subatomic particles called mesons. The hope is that this will lead to the as-of-yet theoretical Higgs boson. What one would do with a Higgs boson if one found it, I'm not sure. I suspect scientists just like shooting beams at other beams because it makes a cool picture.

Anyway, according to the conspiracy crowd, all of this will create black holes large enough to swallow Earth or set off earthquakes or whatever. All of this has been said to have been predicted by Nostradamus or the Book of Revelation or maybe even chicken entrails. I don't know.

However, what the collider does is re-create the natural phenomena of cosmic rays under controlled conditions.

The LHC folks said this sort of thing goes on around the universe millions of times every second and the universe doesn't seem to be any worse for the wear.

One other thing: According to the National Earthquake Center, there are about 50 earthquakes around the world every day and the number of large quakes — magnitude 6 or greater — remains fairly constant at about 120 a year.


Padawan Learner
Is there anything we need to know about the Cern Hadron Collider since it has been restarted last month? Does it pose any danger to us?


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Forrestdeva said:
Is there anything we need to know about the Cern Hadron Collider since it has been restarted last month? Does it pose any danger to us?
Quote, might help, and maybe ... :cry:

The world's largest particle accelerator, the Large Hadron Collider near Geneva, he began slowly, "charging" up to full power.

When its proton beams are circling at full speed and collisions begin, scientists from around the world will finally be able to collect data, which will be so that will have to be processed by computer networks like SETI.

LHC collisions may reveal new clues about the origin of the universe, new particles, new dimensions and, possibly, new physics theory does not predict.

But will the collisions be powerful enough to create small particles with gravity so strong it can "eat" other matter that a microscopic black hole?

If yes, can this thing grow to a scale in which swallow Earth itself?

The fact is that the LHC could produce a tiny, extremely short-lived (read: harmless) black hole.

It is an unlikely event, and one that physicists are nonetheless excited.

Because the possibility of a stable black holes, those that could grow into something worrisome, scientists immediately placed in the area of ​​science fiction.

Recently, two physicists carefully examined this "problem", comparing it with known astrophysical phenomena, using existing knowledge about the universe to determine the probability that the LHC will produce stable black holes on Earth.

These are Steven Giddings of the University of California-Santa Barbara and Michelangelo Mangano of CERN, who built the LHC.

In their paper, published on August 18, in the online edition of Physical Review D, they examine the "extremely hypothetical scenario" in which the black hole created in the LHC is stable and remains on Earth.

And are we doomed? :huh:

"Very thoroughly investigate possible risk in even some very outlandish assumptions about the behavior of black holes, and concluded that we no danger," said Giddings.

"The main reason is simple: the nature of this type of experiments carried out for billions of years, not only on our planet or star, but also the much more dense objects such as neutron stars and white dwarfs. Their amazing we age proves that physics does not lead to bizarre events that opponents LHC cited as very probable, "he said.

Giddingsov and Manganese first argument against stable black holes created at the LHC is the fact that nearly all scientists agree that black holes evaporate, emitting particles called Hawking radiation, called the Stephen Hawking, who proposed the phenomenon and showed why it exists.

A microscopic black hole was extremely unstable, disappearing in a split second.

Also reminiscent of the "historical debate" that collisions with the same power as those to be produced at the LHC - the trillion electron - on Earth happen all the time, and when cosmic rays from deep space (protons with extremely high energies) collide with molecules in the atmosphere.

It is concluded that such events, if they could produce dangerous, stable black holes, would have already done.

But Giddings and Mangano consider two scenarios that are not so simple: if a stable
black hole that is formed in the atmosphere charge or is neutral.

They deduced charged black holes created by cosmic rays could not be long before she would material from Earth or even the one with the Sun and the higher the energy potential sucked all the energy.

If charged black holes have ever been in the Earth's atmosphere, our existence is proof that it is safe.

The LHC will be the black hole may be charged because it will incur a collision pairs of quarks and quarks carry charge.

But if the black hole is neutral and stable, and if emits Hawking radiation, it could be a problem.

Giddings and Mangano studied this scenario despite being likely to occur almost nil, since scientists believe that neutralization could not happen without transmitting Hawking radiation.

Neutralization and Hawking radiation are intricately linked with quantum processes, and if one happens to another should also be happen.

In his analysis proved that there are two cases in stable, neutral black holes. And which of these cases likely depends on which physical theory of extra dimensions (and there are conflicting theories) is correct.

The first case is the slow growth of a neutral, stable microscopic black holes. If such a black hole occurs on Earth as a result of experiments on the LHC, its growth will last longer than the lifetime of the sun. This means that our star to die before we get into any danger.

This leads to other possibilities - the growth of the black hole, which is faster than the lifetime of the sun.

Such stable, neutral black holes may also occur collisions of cosmic rays. Therefore Giddings and Mangan's analysis proves that such black holes long ago destroyed much denser objects from Earth and the Sun, such as white dwarfs and neutron stars, which are already close to collapsing into itself.

All this indicates that the first case the only hopefuls for the emergence of stable, neutral black holes.

"The vast majority of the scientific community agrees that 'stable scenario' already insane," says Giddings.

What is a black hole?
A black hole is an object consisting of singularity and the event horizon. Singularity is located in the center and it is a point of infinite curvature of space and time, and the event horizon is the surrounding area where the gravitational pull becomes so powerful that fully retracts even light.

Once you cross the event horizon, literally nothing can escape gravity.

"Large Hadron Collider will create nothing but what is caused by the action of cosmic rays commonly occurs in nature. If there is any danger but we long ago knew about it," said a spokesman for CERN

What does the LHC experiment?
Large Hadron Collider is a 27-kilometer circular proton accelerator, called the "Great Father" of all similar devices, and it is the strongest physical experiment ever conducted. The entire project stands almost nine billion dollars, and it involved some 15 countries.

Also the largest machine in the world, the LHC will accelerate beams of protons that are spinning in the opposite direction, to nearly the speed of light, and then will befall them directly into each other 600 million times per second.

Another successful test system synchronization of air, which will allow multinational team LHC operators to release first 'real' air into the accelerator, has been successfully implemented.

Both tests, and clockwise in the other, are part of preparing the LHC for the final acceleration and collision two air.

The second "Bumper" working for years with no problems, but CERN's project raises concerns solely because of its size: it is a circular tunnel, located about 90 meters underground and is 27 kilometers long.

Inside the tunnel are deployed more than 5000 magnets that need to accelerate particles to almost the speed of light.

When the beam is approximately 10 trillion protons to a speed of almost 334 kilometers per second frontal collision with another, the result could be a bit unpredictable.

And that's what worries some scientists who have their own theories about what could be the final outcome of this experiment.

It speaks of a black hole, the object so much density that from him not even light can escape.

Many fear that in the event of some unforeseen errors in the experiment, or the inability to stabilize the resulting material could lead to formation of a black hole that would immediately began to creep surrounding matter.

Dire prophets predict that it might begin with a single proton, and complete all the earth.

The fact is that no one knows what will actually happen, because such an experiment has never been implemented. :/



The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Eos said:
llreid1979 said:
llreid1979 would you please give a synopsis from the video, thank you :)
The author of the video seems to be looking at the LHC luminosity increase and possible interactions from the Sun. Also showing that the CERN scientists are looking for another dimension beyond the four we know about.

Background info from the YouTube video:
Unlike normal matter, dark matter does not interact with the electromagnetic force. This means it does not absorb, reflect or emit light, making it extremely hard to spot. In fact, researchers have been able to infer the existence of dark matter only from the gravitational effect it seems to have on visible matter. Dark matter seems to outweigh visible matter roughly six to one, making up about 27% of the universe. Here's a sobering fact: The matter we know and that makes up all stars and galaxies only accounts for 5% of the content of the universe! But what is dark matter? One idea is that it could contain "supersymmetric particles" – hypothesized particles that are partners to those already known in the Standard Model. Experiments at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) may provide more direct clues about dark matter.
Many theories say the dark matter particles would be light enough to be produced at the LHC. If they were created at the LHC, they would escape through the detectors unnoticed. However, they would carry away energy and momentum, so physicists could infer their existence from the amount of energy and momentum “missing” after a collision. Dark matter candidates arise frequently in theories that suggest physics beyond the Standard Model, such as supersymmetry and extra dimensions. One theory suggests the existence of a “Hidden Valley”, a parallel world made of dark matter having very little in common with matter we know. If one of these theories proved to be true, it could help scientists gain a better understanding of the composition of our universe and, in particular, how galaxies hold together.
Dark energy

Dark energy makes up approximately 68% of the universe and appears to be associated with the vacuum in space. It is distributed evenly throughout the universe, not only in space but also in time – in other words, its effect is not diluted as the universe expands. The even distribution means that dark energy does not have any local gravitational effects, but rather a global effect on the universe as a whole. This leads to a repulsive force, which tends to accelerate the expansion of the universe. The rate of expansion and its acceleration can be measured by observations based on the Hubble law. These measurements, together with other scientific data, have confirmed the existence of dark energy and provide an estimate of just how much of this mysterious substance exists.


Padawan Learner
I am not one to talk to much. I enjoy reading and learning more. However this was mentioned to me by a co worker ... This cern company and the theories and possible (likely as with most things) disinformation behind it. I was just wondering if some or any of you avid readers out there have heard a thing about this and what your take on it was. If there is a thread already I would love to be redirected to it!! Thank you all for your considerations and input in this matter (should it be one)


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
According to their website the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) has been working at 6.5 TeV per beam until early this month when it was switched off for scheduled maintenance, mainly upgrading some of the safety devices. So not sure what you are referring to.


The Living Force
big-picture said:
I am not one to talk to much. I enjoy reading and learning more. However this was mentioned to me by a co worker ... This cern company and the theories and possible (likely as with most things) disinformation behind it. I was just wondering if some or any of you avid readers out there have heard a thing about this and what your take on it was. If there is a thread already I would love to be redirected to it!! Thank you all for your considerations and input in this matter (should it be one)
I've been checking out everything I can find that's ever been written and said about the LHC ever since the so-called God-particle was supposedly discovered and announced back in 2012. I have gotten so boiling mad at so much air-head logic and propaganda surrounding everything CERN that I think I might have exploded at some point and given myself a brain stroke or something in the process. I haven't felt right in the head since then. Still waiting for something definite and concrete to come out of that project to justify the billions upon billions that have been spent on it. I think I'll probably be a skeleton sitting at a computer screen before that ever happens.


FOTCM Member
Yeah, I don't know why all the nonsense gets spread around about it. Ark has worked there and also at DESY in Hamburg.
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