Civil War in Ukraine: Western Empire vs Russia

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This is allegedly pictures from the Kharkov region of the new "Poroshenko line" being constructed on the border between Russia and Ukraine put up on the wall of _https://www.facebook.com/denis.eroshenko.98/posts/10152730225604831:
1010110_10152730225094831_2679055248146287322_n.jpg

10665803_10152730225174831_5233453532677697036_n.jpg


There was another picture posted below the two other pictures. It is from the 15th of October and is called Kharkov wall.

photo.php


It looks like there is a fence with towers, followed by a wide road and a dike.
 

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There's a good overview on the thoughts of Russians about the US and the West in the following video on Saker's blog (new URL) - also has a transcript in the comments taken from the video:

http://www.thesaker.net/russia/geopoliticians-discuss-the-russian-response-to-americas-declaration-of-war/
 
Here is an analysis of the conflict around the Donetsk airport by Joaquin Flores. When the discussion began and I heard that the West promised more sanctions if the airport was taken, I was a bit puzzled, because why would the airport be important, why did the West threat Russian with more sanctions if the Airport was taken? But now after listening to the interview, I understand that after the cease-fire, there were mercenaries from a number of western countries held up in their along with members of Pravy Sektor, etc. At night they had their job of terrorizing the civilian population in various ways.

The whole interview
And a summary.
_http://syncreticstudies.com/2014/10/04/explaining-the-battle-for-donetsk-airport/#more-1319 said:
The US’s Use of Death Squads in Novorossiya & Ukraine

These US-backed death squads were using close range mortars to shell random locations within the city. This resulted in the deaths of scores of civilians since the start of the fictional ceasefire.

The US has regularly used Death Squads in all of its wars following WWII. Especially infamous were their use in Latin America during US fueled civil wars and counter-insurgency operations in El Salvador and Nicaragua, during the Reagan and Bush I administrations. Since then they have played a critical role in the US occupation and operations in Iraq and Syria.

Even where the actual targets are themselves of limited tactical importance, the use of the tactic itself is ‘the target'; meaning that the overall short and long-term effect on the collective psyche of the target population is the goal itself. This is often referred to as a “strategy of tension“. It is a form of psychological warfare developed as a standard doctrine with nearly universal application within the framework of 3GW. Its increase in efficacy correlates to the increase of urban populations of scale, and relies upon reporting by TV and newspaper printed photographs in order that the maximum horror/gore component can be widely advertised.

The political goal was to provoke a rhetorical change from the Russian side, and to build animosity between Novorossiyans and Russians, with the former blaming the latter for ‘not doing enough’. The question of whether or not Russia ‘can do more’, when viewed in the abstract, does not reveal the delicate and nuanced reality and long-range plan within context specific scenarios. In the information war, critics of Russian reluctance to engage in ever increasing bellicosity do so for complex and varying reasons, and are often times done with opposite goals in mind, and are targeted at greatly different audiences.

Pro-Russian rebels get ready to take position near the Sergey Prokofiev International Airport during fighting with Ukrainian government forces in the town of Donetsk, eastern UkraineThe military actions in Donetsk are the product of serious consideration and should be considered actions of necessity. Each action by the Novorossiyans must be couched in such a manner which allows their significance to be downplayed by Poroshenko, in order to avoid a continued divergence between himself and the Pravy Sektor. To a large extent, these are unavoidable as it is likely that these tensions are staged, as both the ‘moderate’ Poroshenko government and the Pravy Sektor are US backed projects aimed at producing a certain scripted drama-play outcome. Poroshenko’s anti-Russian rhetoric must be vague in scope, and must not point to actual failures within various skirmishes and battles, alike. Poroshenko is in a very delicate position, and his actions insofar as they are of his own wanting, will reflect the degree to which he wants to remain ‘in power’ in Kiev.

With this in mind, and counseled by the Russian military specialists, the Novorossiyan command made a plan to execute the decision, being to extract by means of force or surrender, the KJ forces occupying the airport.

UKRAINE-RUSSIA-POLITICS-CRISIS-EAST-DONETSK-AIRPORTCommander ‘Motorola’ assembled the extraction team, and moved in to secure the facility. At the time of publishing, the underground of the airport still contained KJ death squads, who refuse to surrender. Most of these are foreign nationals, working as mercenaries, and employed by the US.

*****
Details and other angles are also discussed by Flores in the video piece, as well as the controversy surrounding the utility of the airport as a target worth taking losses to secure – JVC

Random bombing and death squad work, what other war crimes? For this there are very strong statements in the following youtube in Russian with English subtitles which I encountered on the FB page of "IOUCO-International Observatory of Ukrainian Conflict"

Ukraine Crisis | OSCE regarding crime of Urkainian Army
Published on youtube by Antimaidan which you find here _https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdnB82ob_V7EXwwcCtB1vUg
Comment: If one has to relate these statements to what Joaquin Flores said in the previous video then scaring and terrorizing people is a goal in it self, and the psychopathic types have no remorse.
 
In a previous post I included some photos of the new wall being made between Russian and Ukraine. The pictures serve as a nice introduction to the following youtube:

Ukraine | Yatsenuk Inspects "European Shaft" Project on Border with Russia | English Subtitles
The wall costs 500 million Ukrainian Hrivna, of which 235 are from European doners. The wall will have an antitank ditch which will be 2 meter wide and 3 meter deep. The fence is a according to Yatsenuk a EU prerequisite to allow travel to the EU without visa. In the earlier post I called the fence the Poroshenko line, but Poroshenko will call it the "European Shaft". Unsure about the implications I looke up the meaning:
_http://www.thefreedictionary.com/shaft said:
1.
a. The long narrow stem or body of a spear or arrow.
b. A spear or arrow.
2.
a. A projectile suggestive of a spear or arrow in appearance or configuration.
b. Informal A scornfully satirical comment; a barb.
c. Slang Harsh, unfair treatment. Often used with the: The president of the airline really gave the unions the shaft.
3. A ray or beam of light.
8. A long, narrow, often vertical passage sunk into the earth, as for mining ore; a tunnel.
I don't think that a "shaft" in connection with "European" is such a friendly combination. A "shaft" could be a beam of light, but considering how much chaos the US/EU has created in Ukraine, this is hardly believable.
 
thorbiorn said:
[...]
Random bombing and death squad work, what other war crimes? For this there are very strong statements in the following youtube in Russian with English subtitles which I encountered on the FB page of "IOUCO-International Observatory of Ukrainian Conflict"

Ukraine Crisis | OSCE regarding crime of Ukrainian Army
[...]
From a comment on the FB on IOUCO, I learned the person witnissing is from Latvia and that he witnissed in Moscow.

The atrocities he mentioned are ongoing, if one goes through the Youtube postings of "Патриотические Силы", there is evidence civilian bombings continue on a daily basis. Today new bombing of civilian areas in Donetsk. The following is listed as 18+ and not for people with weak nerves. _https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_LLVdeYrj8 It is in Russian, but one can see the destroyed homes, a couple of covered bodies and a woman crying after the destruction of her home and the impact of the explosion. There is no sound of weapons in the above clip, it is so silent. To get an idea of what it might be like watch this from the 18th of October, today:
Which I found on _http://el-murid.livejournal.com/ In the clip, there is a major explosion, when you see the light try to count the seconds until the shock wave comes.

Life in Ukraine is not only about bombs in the Donetsk area. There is also this:
_https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=741758342540521&id=721709267878762 said:
150 of members of the Right Sector have blocked all exits of Zaporozhstal factory yesterday, one of the largest in Europe metals factory with 15,000 employees. The two main roads leading out of the plant have been blocked by truck-loads of gravel. Not only supplies and equipment couldn't get to the plant, and products get out, but employees could not enter and exit the factory.
This was from FB page of "Novorossiya Rise.We will Win" who responded that it has become common to seize companies. Taking into account the statements reported by a journalist from The Guardian who travelled for a week with the Azov batallion, then the picture does not look pleasant: _http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/azov-far-right-fighters-ukraine-neo-nazis

Consider also the statement of one of the commanders of the Novorossiya army, a person called Besler
_https://www.facebook.com/721709267878762/photos/a.721716094544746.1073741827.721709267878762/741744159208606/?type=1 said:
- Zagrad-brigades do exist. They shoot all their own deserters immediately.
[...]
- Battalions Aidar, Azov and Donbass do not obey Kiev
[...]
Translated by Kristina Rus
Comments: Is it possible some of the bodies of soldiers without names could be of deserters that were shot?
Aidar, Azov and Donbass do not obey Kiev they obey Kolomoiskiy:
_http://www.newsweek.com/evidence-war-crimes-committed-ukrainian-nationalist-volunteers-grows-269604 said:
The Aidar battalion is publicly backed by Ukrainian oligarch Ihor Kolomoyskyi, who also funds the Azov, Donbas, Dnepr 1, Dnepr 2 volunteer battalions,
It is probably difficult to find out how much shelling of civilian areas comes from the official Ukrainian army, and what comes from the above private batallions. However like some noted, it is like the strategy the IDF used in GAZA. I think Kolomoysyi would not mind either. It is for some of the people of Ukrainian army like for some IDF's - civilians don't matter. A Ukrainian and former IDF put it into words here: _http://abirkopty.wordpress.com/2013/11/22/israeli-ukrainian-soldier-admits-she-killed-palestinians-on-tv/
 
thorbiorn said:
This is allegedly pictures from the Kharkov region of the new "Poroshenko line" being constructed on the border between Russia and Ukraine put up on the wall of _https://www.facebook.com/denis.eroshenko.98/posts/10152730225604831:
1010110_10152730225094831_2679055248146287322_n.jpg

and this pathetic, ugly parody swore to build before September 1, and gave on it a 100 million hryvnia! (about 77 million dollars). in Ukraine there is no corruption! but there is a lustrations
 
SeekinTruth said:
There's a good overview on the thoughts of Russians about the US and the West in the following video on Saker's blog (new URL) - also has a transcript in the comments taken from the video:

http://www.thesaker.net/russia/geopoliticians-discuss-the-russian-response-to-americas-declaration-of-war/

Thanks for this, SeekinTruth. Listening (well reading fast the subtitles), was very interested as this is like checking the pulse of some diverse people and their views in Russia. It's interesting, too, as some really seem to understand a great deal of where they have been, which the west cannot fathom, and as one said, osit, they need to disassemble their clock and look at all the details. It is strange in the west, this "exceptionalism", this view of the self/state. Opposite of the discussion here, the west refuses to look at itself - sad. Of course the problems in the west seems to boil down to the acts of the usual suspects, and the usual suspects are pulling out all the stops against their own people, which is 180 degrees from not so long ago. Nevertheless, for many people, they just don't see the change at all, and if they do, it is only a few degrees.
 
voyageur said:
SeekinTruth said:
There's a good overview on the thoughts of Russians about the US and the West in the following video on Saker's blog (new URL) - also has a transcript in the comments taken from the video:

http://www.thesaker.net/russia/geopoliticians-discuss-the-russian-response-to-americas-declaration-of-war/

Thanks for this, SeekinTruth. Listening (well reading fast the subtitles), was very interested as this is like checking the pulse of some diverse people and their views in Russia. It's interesting, too, as some really seem to understand a great deal of where they have been, which the west cannot fathom, and as one said, osit, they need to disassemble their clock and look at all the details. It is strange in the west, this "exceptionalism", this view of the self/state. Opposite of the discussion here, the west refuses to look at itself - sad. Of course the problems in the west seems to boil down to the acts of the usual suspects, and the usual suspects are pulling out all the stops against their own people, which is 180 degrees from not so long ago. Nevertheless, for many people, they just don't see the change at all, and if they do, it is only a few degrees.

The energy and enthusiasm was very contagious, no wonder it was aired at prime time.
Just another reason that the west is creating its own downfall is the comment at 30:10:

"We all really need to say a big thank you to comrade Obama for forcing us to mobilize. Suddenly the Russian people got the drive and motivation. "

Its probably to late for the west to look at itself, to much evil, everything would turn to dust Dorian Gray style.
 
Torstone said:
[...]

The energy and enthusiasm was very contagious, no wonder it was aired at prime time.
Just another reason that the west is creating its own downfall is the comment at 30:10:

"We all really need to say a big thank you to comrade Obama for forcing us to mobilize. Suddenly the Russian people got the drive and motivation. "

Its probably to late for the west to look at itself, to much evil, everything would turn to dust Dorian Gray style.
It is late for society as a whole, because there are decades of political lies and wrongdoings that have accumulated to such an extent that many simply refuse to deal with it. I live in a country where there have been many discussions about the situation surounding a war that happened 150 years ago. There have been discussions about what happened during ww 2, but that is not yet finished. For the majority of people in a society like that to catch up with real time events and as a community be able to reflect objectively on, what goes on now, is a tall order. It is possible though. There are PhD thesis, there are small groups and networks, but it is hard to be optimistic about the short term prospects unless something intervenes.
 
Kristina Rus, from whom I borrowed many translated text over the last week has just launced a blog _http://fortruss.blogspot.com/ where there are many texts in English that have been translated from Russian. About the blog she writes:
Fort Russ brings you translations of unique content from Russian social media, popular bloggers and prominent analysts
And about the mission:
I am passionate about helping English-speakers bridge the language barrier between Western and Russian media space, because I believe Western mainstream media failed at its job to do that.
On the page there are also links to other sites with material in English. The article on the top right now is "Situation 'greatly intensifying' on the fronts (October 20, 01:00 local time)" More translations are going to be posted shortly.
 
thorbiorn said:
Torstone said:
[...]

The energy and enthusiasm was very contagious, no wonder it was aired at prime time.
Just another reason that the west is creating its own downfall is the comment at 30:10:

"We all really need to say a big thank you to comrade Obama for forcing us to mobilize. Suddenly the Russian people got the drive and motivation. "

Its probably to late for the west to look at itself, to much evil, everything would turn to dust Dorian Gray style.
It is late for society as a whole, because there are decades of political lies and wrongdoings that have accumulated to such an extent that many simply refuse to deal with it. I live in a country where there have been many discussions about the situation surounding a war that happened 150 years ago. There have been discussions about what happened during ww 2, but that is not yet finished. For the majority of people in a society like that to catch up with real time events and as a community be able to reflect objectively on, what goes on now, is a tall order. It is possible though. There are PhD thesis, there are small groups and networks, but it is hard to be optimistic about the short term prospects unless something intervenes.


I agree, and with situations and events like these I think it is all about the context, like Ukraine, one can discuss it in terms of ideology, economy and geopolitics but these are all to abstraction imo, leaving ambiguous interpretations and meanings, compared to the much clearer context that there are psychopaths in power who hides behind those exact abstractions like freedom, free-market and democracy and enforces their will on the rest of us and many of us accept it without question, at our own peril. Osit.
 
Today there was bombardment of Donetsk, in spite of cease fire and all the UA army hit a chemical plan with a mega blast. Here is footage:
One sees the rocket coming in and hitting the plant.

This is longer, one does not have the rocket but one sees the development of the fire more easily and above all, hears the blast.

Glass broke in a radius of kilometers, some people must have died, other must have damaged their eyes from the glass. How will the people stay warm in winter without windows, when they have been broken in such a large area?

Edit: see article with more details _http://rt.com/news/197476-donetsk-missile-chemical-plant/#mc-container
When RT’s team arrived at the scene, they found a crater “about 10 meters (33 feet) deep,” he said.
Cease-fire and the West accepts balistic missiles against civilian target. As Torstone said in the previous post, the problem is psychopaths.

I have now watched the video several times and I dont't understand why there is such a huge fire coming in, is the rocket burning before landing, but if it was how could it hit precisely? I am beginning to wonder if it could be something else? It reminds me of the chemical plant in the US that caught fire and it turned out to have been assisted by a comet fragment. Was this too?
 
In the previous post I was suspecting that if the blast at the chemical plant was something else than a rocket, after watching the first video _http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KmDvfTEkUIQ several times I specutlated:
thorbiorn said:
[...]

I have now watched the video several times and I dont't understand why there is such a huge fire coming in, is the rocket burning before landing, but if it was how could it hit precisely? I am beginning to wonder if it could be something else? It reminds me of the chemical plant in the US that caught fire and it turned out to have been assisted by a comet fragment. Was this too?
Because of doubt, I asked in another thread http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,36323.msg529256.html#msg529256 and it turned out the first video was from an earlier event, as the answer was:
The Mechanic said:
There's another version of the first video you posted here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNdgEJUqU8U
It shows a clearer image of the event, albeit reversed in time. Starts around 12 seconds in.

There's another one I believe, here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl-8mEBfBBM
This one is dated july 1st 2013.

Seems like the first video you posted was another, earlier event.
Therefore it was a video of a wrong event, a crash of a Proton M rocket at at earlier time, and thanks to Mechanic for clarifying.
 
Claim by the New York Times that the UA army used cluster bombs in Donetsk on several occasions: _http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/world/ukraine-used-cluster-bombs-report-charges.html?_r=1
 
thorbiorn said:
Claim by the New York Times that the UA army used cluster bombs in Donetsk on several occasions: _http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/world/ukraine-used-cluster-bombs-report-charges.html?_r=1
Today I found a denial of the use of cluster bombs:
Source: Russia Beyond the Headlines _http://rbth.co.uk/news/2014/10/22/osce_observers_do_not_confirm_use_of_cluster_bombs_by_ukrainian_army_40786.html said:
OSCE observers do not confirm use of cluster bombs by Ukrainian army 14:41 October 22, 2014 Interfax

The OSCE Special Monitoring Mission does not confirm human rights activists' reports alleging the use of cluster munitions in the army operation zone in eastern Ukraine.

"We have about 90 observers in eastern Ukraine. If we saw something like that, we would have recorded it, but that has not currently been recorded. All we have to say about ammunition or shelling appears in our daily reports. By this time there was nothing in our reports about it," OSCE spokesman Michael Bociurkiw told Deutsche Welle, speaking of a Human Rights Watch report.

Daily reports issued by OSCE observers record every shelling incident in Donbass. Observers promptly visit incident sites.

The international human rights organization, Human Rights Watch, said on October 21 that during a weeklong investigation conducted in eastern Ukraine the organization's experts recorded the broad use of cluster munitions in the hostilities in over ten urban and countryside districts.
They say the have 90 observers and they claim they record every shelling. It that possible? Here is a report from the borderpoints:

_http://www.osce.org/om/125776 said:
The situation at both BCPs remained calm. People who cross the border regularly talk to the Observer Teams (OTs). Those who crossed the border from Ukraine reported that the situation remained largely calm in the Luhansk region. However, the number of small arms shootings and artillery fire reported to the OM has slightly increased.
Near the broder they have 16 observers which leaves us with 74 placed elsewhere. Would these observers be able to keep track of every shelling incident? Would the Observer Mission go to investigate a shelling that has not been reported. I doubt it.
For example in this report they say:
The overall situation in the city of Donetsk remained volatile. On 18 October the SMM heard a series of loud explosions consistent with incoming and outgoing artillery rounds, in the northern outskirts of the city where the airport is located. On 19 October the SMM went to the district of Kuybishevsky, in Zvyagilskiy Street where it visited the school No. 61 and two other houses, allegedly damaged by the shelling on 18 October. The school No.61 had been hit allegedly by two instances of shelling consistent with mortar fire, at around 19:15hrs the previous night, according to the witness who was the duty officer of the shelled school. According to the duty officer the school was operational and classrooms which had been affected by the shelling were cleaned up when the SMM visited the spot. The duty officer told the SMM that so far there are no plans on how to proceed with teaching in the damaged school.

The SMM observed Kirovsky district from Chekalina Street where a house situated at No. 5 had been hit by two mortar shells from an unspecified direction. The roof, ceiling and the windows of the house were all destroyed. Furthermore, on the same street, the SMM observed a second house, situated at No. 15.No casualties and wounded persons have been recorded thus far, according to a representative from the “DPR” “Emergency Services Department”, who also claimed that the damage in both cases occurred on 18 October.
In other words, the OSCE did not go to the airport to investigate exactly what was going on, not to speak of "recording every shelling incident". That was a good decision, judging from the results I have seen of the fighting. And OSCE might have missed a few incidents elsewhere too: In Russian there appeared a lsit of damages loss of civilian life that took place in Donetsk on October 18th until 20:00 _https://www.facebook.com/TruthfromUkraine/posts/1561966857359994 It is a somewhat longer and more detailed in some respects than what OSCE reported.

In any case, if anyone wants to read a freshly published report from the OSCE about the work in Ukraine, and how it was organized, there is one here: _http://www.osce.org/home/125575?download=true
 
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