Coffee and Probiotic Enema's

[Anthony]

I've been doing coffee enemas for some time now, and I notice that my digestion has improved. I also get less acne breakouts.

 

[theos]

I've been doing coffee enemas for some time now, and I notice that my digestion has improved. I also get less acne breakouts.

That's great, Anthony. Coffee enemas can be a great wake up for the liver and the stimulatoin of bile flow helps digestion a lot. Less acne means that your liver is doing a better job of processing toxins so they aren't forced to come out through your skin. Good news :).

 

[Marina9]

I think yes, that in my case my dermatitis is been triggered as a detox reaction and stress. I thought it was something hereditary as I was told by my dermatologist... but talking to Gaby this makes more sense to me now hehe.. For about two weeks or so I did them daily one coffee and one probiotic, and now im doing them just twice a week, giving my body a chance to detox and breathe a bit hehe. The dermatitis is still there and im also seeing it more in my thighs :( now the other thing is that along with starting the enemas I did clean my diet very much and went very low carb, which also triggered hormonal imbalances, three weeks late to my period and very bad insomnia... I guess that will be the stress factor in my case. Oh and I also eliminated butter a couple of weeks ago, I haven't had any studies done for allergic reactions to food, but since dairy may be the culprit too for dermatitis, i'll see if it goes a bit milder after cutting butter.

Are you still including chlorella in your protocol? You mention taking it in a couple of your previous posts. I found it really helpful along with activated charcoal to get the toxins and heavy metals out.

Liposomal glutathione also came to mind. It repairs leaky gut and helps with detox issues. There's a recipe on the Forum here. I've been taking it myself due to a detox overload and it has really helped. Hope you feel better. :)

Thank you Menrva! I haven't tried with activated charcoal or glutathione, just chlorella yes. Now that im doing them just twice a week, the eczema seems to be getting a tiny bit milder, so maybe it was also that I needed to give a break to my system to detox properly :)

 

[lainey]

Why dissolve the probiotics for 8 hours? They are very sensitive to being damaged by the external environment so I thought it would be best to stir them up and get them straight in there.

I tried doing a search but couldn't find a reason. There was a comment at the bottom of this article which mentions the 8 hour wait.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/544136-how-to-do-a-probiotic-enema/

sounds like the purpose of the overnight soak is to "bloom" the bacteria. like when you are making bread and you soak the yeast in warm water before adding it to make sure the yeast "wakes up" from its suspended animation

Not sure if that's true though.

This "8 hour wait" question has come to mind again recently and I decided to do a bit more reading about it to see if there was any good reason to let the probiotics "bloom" first. From what I can gather, moisture activates the probiotics and from that point of activation they begin to either thrive (in the right conditions i.e. the intestine) or they begin to die off.

Humidity and moisture are a huge problem for probiotic products, as moisture activates the bacteria and essentially starts the process of degradation, since the activation is intended to occur after ingestion. Some manufacturer’s products are sealed at low humidity as they are manufactured, which results in a foil-packed probiotic product which is typically a better choice. Yet, when the product is opened, it is exposed to moisture from the air and the probiotic bacteria begin to deteriorate.

http://www.prescript-assist.com/intestinal-health/refrigerated-probiotics/

This study done in 1955 - where the bacteria were frozen and thawed over and over again - suggests that the bacteria tested could reach a temperature of 35 degrees C and not all die instantly, but would instead gradually die off with each thaw.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC386276/?page=1

This one also suggests a similar story, that the probiotics could reach 30 degrees C and not instantly die but would begin to degrade. (however, this one was done by the companies "independent" investigators so I don't know how accurate the results are.)

http://www.klaire.com/images/Probiotics_Update_Summer_2011_1.pdf

Then there was this study done on probiotic yoghuts left out at room temperature:

Results: The first yoghurt, containing Lactobacillus johnsonii, showed a significant decrease in CFU after 6 h of storage at RT, which was further pronounced after 24 h. The number of CFU of the second yoghurt, containing Lactobacillus GG, was also decreased by 6 h and further diminished by 24 h at RT. From the third yoghurt, containing Lactobacillus acidophilus, only 53.8% CFU remained after 6 h at RT and after 24 h, just about one fourth CFU were found.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20838050

This led me to reading about commonly used probiotics fragility:

The Scientific Journal Immunology and Cell Biology reviewed commonly used probiotic bacteria such as:
Lactobacillus acidophilus
casei
Bifidobacterium bifidum
adolescentis
breve
longum
Saccharomyces boulardii

Each was found to be too fragile to survive the rigors of manufacturing, transport, storage, and the highly acidic conditions of the intestinal tract. For example, L. acidophilus shows a rapid decline in viability at pH 2.0 (the stomach’s pH is typically even lower, 1.5). Additionally, B. adolescentis and B. breve survive poorly at all pH levels (1.5, 2.0, 2.5 and 3.0) tested.2 Each of these requires complex engineering to preserve the bacteria’s viability and activity.

Which led me to this article about probiotics surviving better when taken with a fatty meal:

The reason Lactic Acid bacteria (LABs) in probiotics and fermented food survive better is because of the pH buffering effect of food, and particularly fat. The stomach and its acids provide a very harsh environment for bacteria, as they should — that’s how we keep a lot of pathogens out. The stomach’s fasting gastric pH is about 1.5. That’s very low, even for the acid-loving LABs. What’s ideal? Broadly speaking, it looks like survivability grows and hits its peak at around a pH of 5. L. plantarum hits its peak at 4.8, in that study.

https://mrheisenbug.wordpress.com/2014/03/28/probiotics-survive-better-with-some-fat-its-the-ph/

So I guess I've come to the conclusion that if someone is going to take probiotics orally, it's better to do it with a fatty meal. And if they are going to do an enema, then they are ok putting them into the room temperature water - they won't all die straight away - but they are better just getting them up there and letting them "bloom" in the environment they thrive better in.

 

[Turgon]

So I guess I've come to the conclusion that if someone is going to take probiotics orally, it's better to do it with a fatty meal. And if they are going to do an enema, then they are ok putting them into the room temperature water - they won't all die straight away - but they are better just getting them up there and letting them "bloom" in the environment they thrive better in.

Nice find, lainey! So we don't have to keep the water sitting overnight for 8 hours and can pretty much just put the probiotics in the water, stir, and use it for the enema.

 

[Carl]

So I guess I've come to the conclusion that if someone is going to take probiotics orally, it's better to do it with a fatty meal. And if they are going to do an enema, then they are ok putting them into the room temperature water - they won't all die straight away - but they are better just getting them up there and letting them "bloom" in the environment they thrive better in.

Nice find, lainey! So we don't have to keep the water sitting overnight for 8 hours and can pretty much just put the probiotics in the water, stir, and use it for the enema.

Yeah I don't see the point in 'activating' them in water, better to activate them inside your gut :).

Also I spoke to Karl, the guy who makes Elixa. He doesn't recommend using it in retention enema/suppository form because apparently it's also important to get probiotics into the small intestine as well.

Based on this I took 2 courses orally and there was definitely some positive result, especially with my skin. I've noticed too much sugar or even a moderate amount of alcohol seems to take away some of the benefits, and so does a round of DMSA.

The beneficial changes can be pretty fragile and probably need to build up over time and repeated dosage.

 

[Keyhole]

So I guess I've come to the conclusion that if someone is going to take probiotics orally, it's better to do it with a fatty meal. And if they are going to do an enema, then they are ok putting them into the room temperature water - they won't all die straight away - but they are better just getting them up there and letting them "bloom" in the environment they thrive better in.

Nice find, lainey! So we don't have to keep the water sitting overnight for 8 hours and can pretty much just put the probiotics in the water, stir, and use it for the enema.

Yeah I don't see the point in 'activating' them in water, better to activate them inside your gut :).

Also I spoke to Karl, the guy who makes Elixa. He doesn't recommend using it in retention enema/suppository form because apparently it's also important to get probiotics into the small intestine as well.

Based on this I took 2 courses orally and there was definitely some positive result, especially with my skin. I've noticed too much sugar or even a moderate amount of alcohol seems to take away some of the benefits, and so does a round of DMSA.

The beneficial changes can be pretty fragile and probably need to build up over time and repeated dosage.

Hi Carl, I am curious as to why this guy says that probiotics should get into the small intestines. Did he elaborate in any way? Because my current understanding was that the small intestine should be relatively sterile, and that it is the lower colon where the bacteria are said to thrive. If there are any data on this, I would be interested to see it if you know of any?

 

[Joe]

.

Based on this I took 2 courses orally and there was definitely some positive result, especially with my skin. I've noticed too much sugar or even a moderate amount of alcohol seems to take away some of the benefits, and so does a round of DMSA.

The beneficial changes can be pretty fragile and probably need to build up over time and repeated dosage.

I've noticed the same with sugar myself, it's bad juju (for me anyway) and needs to be kept to a minimum. Sames goes for alcohol, although I only drink it very occasionally and in pretty small quantities.

 

[Nico]

I am on course two of Elixa and it seems the number of bacterias are quite important, so far I am adjusting and didn't notice any effects related to the physical, for me my intuition is to get three run of 3 trillions for three weeks. I did gain interest in fruits without noticing Bad effect if I don't overeat them.

Also, I think it was Kruse, said micro gut organisms emitted light so it may have effect or no effect in relation to other realm.

 

[Carl]

Hi Carl, I am curious as to why this guy says that probiotics should get into the small intestines. Did he elaborate in any way? Because my current understanding was that the small intestine should be relatively sterile, and that it is the lower colon where the bacteria are said to thrive. If there are any data on this, I would be interested to see it if you know of any?

I sent him an email seeing if he has any references to hand on this because yeah, most of the data out there is about SIBO and pretty much all small intestinal batceria being bad! I'll post anything I find.

 

[Keyhole]

Hi Carl, I am curious as to why this guy says that probiotics should get into the small intestines. Did he elaborate in any way? Because my current understanding was that the small intestine should be relatively sterile, and that it is the lower colon where the bacteria are said to thrive. If there are any data on this, I would be interested to see it if you know of any?

I sent him an email seeing if he has any references to hand on this because yeah, most of the data out there is about SIBO and pretty much all small intestinal batceria being bad! I'll post anything I find.

Cheers, looking forward to hearing what he has to say!

 

[beetlemaniac]

Just to report on my experiments with probiotic enemas:

I did one two to three weeks ago, letting the probiotics sit in water overnight before the enema. No major effects.

I then did another today, mixing the probiotics without letting them "bloom". I'm getting some cramping and upper abdominal pain this time, and because of that I'm having trouble sleeping. I also took some orally with lunch. I don't think it's the oral dose that's causing the pain as it has not done so before. I think lainey's research is spot on -- the probiotics are more effective when not left in water overnight. I'm just not sure if this cramping, bloating and pain is a good sign. Will ride it out and see what happens.

Both times, the enemas were done first thing in the morning and I skipped breakfast. The probiotic enema was done following a clean water and coffee enema to clean out the bowels.

 

[lainey]

Just to report on my experiments with probiotic enemas:

I did one two to three weeks ago, letting the probiotics sit in water overnight before the enema. No major effects.

I then did another today, mixing the probiotics without letting them "bloom". I'm getting some cramping and upper abdominal pain this time, and because of that I'm having trouble sleeping. I also took some orally with lunch. I don't think it's the oral dose that's causing the pain as it has not done so before. I think lainey's research is spot on -- the probiotics are more effective when not left in water overnight. I'm just not sure if this cramping, bloating and pain is a good sign. Will ride it out and see what happens.

Both times, the enemas were done first thing in the morning and I skipped breakfast. The probiotic enema was done following a clean water and coffee enema to clean out the bowels.

I think it would we wise for others to err on the side of caution with this and perhaps back down to 1/2 capsules if they were originally using more. If the mix is more potent this way, it could have more dramatic effects.

I hope you feel better soon bm, keep us updated.

 

[beetlemaniac]

I think it would we wise for others to err on the side of caution with this and perhaps back down to 1/2 capsules if they were originally using more. If the mix is more potent this way, it could have more dramatic effects.

I hope you feel better soon bm, keep us updated.

I read your posts to mean half a capsule, but I think you meant 1 or 2 capsules? I used 4 capsules for my last enema - though they were smaller capsules, a little more than half an inch in size.

Thank you, the pain and cramping stopped the next day.

 

[lainey]

I think it would we wise for others to err on the side of caution with this and perhaps back down to 1/2 capsules if they were originally using more. If the mix is more potent this way, it could have more dramatic effects.

I hope you feel better soon bm, keep us updated.

I read your posts to mean half a capsule, but I think you meant 1 or 2 capsules? I used 4 capsules for my last enema - though they were smaller capsules, a little more than half an inch in size.

Thank you, the pain and cramping stopped the next day.

It wasn't very clear was it? You're right, I meant 1 or 2 capsules. I'm going to try it tonight and I'll report back with results.