Coffee and Probiotic Enema's

[beetlemaniac]

Hello, I think those ones are good, right?
_https://www.amazon.fr/Enema-Quart-Acier-inoxydable-dinstructions/dp/B06XGYCY6M/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&qid=1491249989&sr=8-20&keywords=enema+kit
I'm a bit suspicious because it's cheaper.

This one _https://www.amazon.fr/Enema-Quart-Stainless-Steel-Bucket/dp/B01MZYSVAE/ref=sr_1_30?ie=UTF8&qid=1491250239&sr=8-30&keywords=enema+kit
is listed as having "silicon medical grade components", while the former is only "medical grade components"

I think both look quite good to me. I'm still using a plastic bucket, which is definitely not optimal, though it's better than not having it at the ready whenever I want to do an enema. By the way, be very careful about cleaning the tube and keeping things like mold from growing inside it. Inspect the entire length of the tube before using it and dry it well after cleaning it. I have suffered terrible gastrointestinal distress that lasted a long time after an enema session once. I think it was caused by what appeared to be mold growing in my enema tube. It was not pleasant!

The instructions that come with my kit recommend using hydrogen peroxide to wash the equipment before and after use. I mix a bottle-cap's worth of H2O2 with the rinsing water before doing the enema and two capfuls with water to clean the bucket after the enema, and let it run through the tube.

 

[Marina9]

I don't recall where I read it now, but I read that adding Epsom salt to the coffee enema can make it easier to retain, which has been my experience. I usually use 1-2 tablespoons whenever I do a coffee enema and can hold it for ~20 minutes.

I had been wondering about just Epsom salt enemas but haven't found loads of information, just recipes and procedures, so I wasn't very sure wether it was a good idea. But yesterday I tried what you mentioned Foxx, 3 tbsp of coffee and 1 epsom salt, and yes it works waaay better for retaining it without struggle. So it could be worth trying for the others struggling with that :) Plus I dunno if it was the combination of salts and coffee, but I had a very good night sleep and woke up refreshed :) Thanks for mentioning it!

 

[Turgon]

I don't recall where I read it now, but I read that adding Epsom salt to the coffee enema can make it easier to retain, which has been my experience. I usually use 1-2 tablespoons whenever I do a coffee enema and can hold it for ~20 minutes.

I had been wondering about just Epsom salt enemas but haven't found loads of information, just recipes and procedures, so I wasn't very sure wether it was a good idea. But yesterday I tried what you mentioned Foxx, 3 tbsp of coffee and 1 epsom salt, and yes it works waaay better for retaining it without struggle. So it could be worth trying for the others struggling with that :) Plus I dunno if it was the combination of salts and coffee, but I had a very good night sleep and woke up refreshed :) Thanks for mentioning it!

Hmm, same thing I can only find recipes on it. But the probiotic enemas in the morning seem to be doing something! I went in for a colonoscopy last month for what I thought was Crohns and they didnt find anything but as soon as I do the enema all the morning inflammation and issues pretty much disappear. So will stick to that for the time being but I wonder if adding epsom salt will be okay to use with the probiotic enema or will the strains react to the added salt I'll experiment with that this weekend and see what happens.

 

[Keyhole]

Hmm, same thing I can only find recipes on it. But the probiotic enemas in the morning seem to be doing something! I went in for a colonoscopy last month for what I thought was Crohns and they didnt find anything but as soon as I do the enema all the morning inflammation and issues pretty much disappear. So will stick to that for the time being but I wonder if adding epsom salt will be okay to use with the probiotic enema or will the strains react to the added salt I'll experiment with that this weekend and see what happens.

Turgon, have you considered paying for functional GI testing? I personally don't think it is wise to experiment with things like this when you are suffering from a condition that you thought was Crohn's disease (considering that some epsom salts are renowned to be laden with toxic residues), along with the possibility that your issue may be unrelated to magnesium.

Taking these probiotic enemas so often could be doing more harm than good if you don't have any data regarding which species currently populate your gut. "Lactobacillus" is commonly a main constituent of probiotic formulas, but excesses in the gut are actually tied with pathology. FWIW, these bacteria produce lactate, which is essentially a destructive product in large quantities because it shifts the preference of the cells away from oxidative metabolism toward glycolytic fermentation. This is just one possibility, but from what I can see, simply guessing what the problem may be is probably not going to solve any issues. The investment in testing is totally worth it in the long run, because that money may be spent on supplements which are either ineffective or at worst... detrimental. Genova Diagnostics have a comprehensive digestive test called "GI Effects" which should shine light on what is really going on down there.

 

[Keyhole]

The gist is that different microbes thrive better off of different types of prebiotics, and the reason that so many are sensitive to sugar, alcohol or various other things may be that there are a large number of bad critters which are feeding on it preferentially and creating their toxic byproducts. For instance you might have a species of bacteria which are very efficient at feeding on sugar - better than other microbes. If you eat lots of sugar, these will therefore multiply faster and take up more territory. Eventually when they have gained enough momentum, it is very hard to turn that around, and any slip up with diet can cause problems.
The answer seems to be to inundate the gut with friendly critters, and then constantly feed the types of prebiotics that the good critters are more efficient at feeding on.

Similarly, some microbiotic species switch to amino acid metabolism in the absence of any sugar, to produce ammonia and other toxic byproducts. So the idea that "ketosis kills all bacteria" seems now to be incorrect. In my own experience, I was in ketosis for a couple of years, but my test results came back that I had too much bacteria (probably of the wrong variety!), not too little. Fair enough, I was eating carbs for a while before testing, but here's an interesting study (in vitro) which suggests that some bacteria are not entirely dependent on carbohydrates.

Background
The products of protein breakdown in the human colon are considered to be detrimental to gut health. Amino acid catabolism leads to the formation of sulfides, phenolic compounds and amines, which are inflammatory and/or precursors to the formation of carcinogens, including N-nitroso compounds. The aim of this study was to investigate the kinetics of protein breakdown and the bacterial species involved.

Results
Casein, pancreatic casein hydrolysate (mainly short-chain peptides) or amino acids were incubated in vitro with suspensions of faecal bacteria from 3 omnivorous and 3 vegetarian human donors. Results from the two donor groups were similar. Ammonia production was highest from peptides, followed by casein and amino acids, which were similar. The amino acids metabolized most extensively were Asp, Ser, Lys and Glu. Monensin inhibited the rate of ammonia production from amino acids by 60% (P = 0.001), indicating the involvement of Gram-positive bacteria. Enrichment cultures were carried out to investigate if, by analogy with the rumen, there was a significant population of asaccharolytic, obligately amino acid-fermenting bacteria (‘hyper-ammonia-producing’ bacteria; HAP) in the colon. Numbers of bacteria capable of growth on peptides or amino acids alone averaged 3.5% of the total viable count, somewhat higher than the rumen. None of these were HAP, however. The species enriched included Clostridium spp., one of which was C. perfringens, Enterococcus, Shigella and Escherichia coli.

Conclusions
Protein fermentation by human faecal bacteria in the absence of sugars not only leads to the formation of hazardous metabolic products, but also to the possible proliferation of harmful bacteria. The kinetics of protein metabolism were similar to the rumen, but HAP bacteria were not found.

He gave some phrases to plug into google scholar. Mainly words from my question 'Importance of small intestinal bacteria', SIBO. He also suggested 'GALT', and 'cryptic bacteria'.

Cheers, I will check them out tonight.

 

[Foxx]

Hmm, same thing I can only find recipes on it. But the probiotic enemas in the morning seem to be doing something! I went in for a colonoscopy last month for what I thought was Crohns and they didnt find anything but as soon as I do the enema all the morning inflammation and issues pretty much disappear. So will stick to that for the time being but I wonder if adding epsom salt will be okay to use with the probiotic enema or will the strains react to the added salt I'll experiment with that this weekend and see what happens.

For the epsom salt, I was referring to the coffee enemas, not the probiotic enemas. Since probiotic enemas are retention enemas and not supposed to be released, they should be much smaller than coffee enemas so they retain easily and I don't think it would be wise to add epsom salt to those for multiple reasons.

Have you also considered the possibility of a biofilm in your digestive tract somewhere? I'm treating one at the moment and have a theory that having one makes it such that good bacteria can't properly colonize the digestive tract. So if you had one, then perhaps you would get temporary relief from the probiotic enemas, but not lasting relief since they're not colonizing. But again, that's just a theory.

 

[Adaryn]

Have you also considered the possibility of a biofilm in your digestive tract somewhere? I'm treating one at the moment and have a theory that having one makes it such that good bacteria can't properly colonize the digestive tract. So if you had one, then perhaps you would get temporary relief from the probiotic enemas, but not lasting relief since they're not colonizing. But again, that's just a theory.

Your mention of biofilms in the gut made me think of articles I read recently about magnesium stearate, which is used in most supplements and which, according to some claims, might create biofilms and prevent proper absorption of supplements and other nutrients. Some researchers recommend avoiding magnesium stearate at all costs. Others say that this claim is BS and has never been proven by any serious study.

Here's what Mercola says about this filler:

Magnesium stearate is essentially a chalk-like substance, which prevents the supplements from sticking together and allows the machinery to run smoother and faster, which equates to cost savings during the manufacturing process. Magnesium stearate is not a source of magnesium and has no benefits, but may have a detrimental effect on your immune function as stearic acid has been linked to suppression of T cells. The filler also stimulates your gut to form a biofilm, which can prevent proper absorption of nutrients in your digestive tract

_http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/06/23/whole-food-supplement-dangers.aspx#_edn1

A SOTT article about potentially harmful fillers in your supplements: https://www.sott.net/article/345582-Fillers-lurking-in-some-supplements-may-compromise-your-health

While there indeed have been attempts at debunking this claim, I've read quite a few accounts of people - some with gut problems - whose health (including gut health) vastly improved after they stopped taking supplements containing magnesium stearate. So maybe it's best to err on the side of caution and avoid it altogether?

 

[Turgon]

Hmm, same thing I can only find recipes on it. But the probiotic enemas in the morning seem to be doing something! I went in for a colonoscopy last month for what I thought was Crohns and they didnt find anything but as soon as I do the enema all the morning inflammation and issues pretty much disappear. So will stick to that for the time being but I wonder if adding epsom salt will be okay to use with the probiotic enema or will the strains react to the added salt I'll experiment with that this weekend and see what happens.

Turgon, have you considered paying for functional GI testing? I personally don't think it is wise to experiment with things like this when you are suffering from a condition that you thought was Crohn's disease (considering that some epsom salts are renowned to be laden with toxic residues), along with the possibility that your issue may be unrelated to magnesium.

Taking these probiotic enemas so often could be doing more harm than good if you don't have any data regarding which species currently populate your gut. "Lactobacillus" is commonly a main constituent of probiotic formulas, but excesses in the gut are actually tied with pathology. FWIW, these bacteria produce lactate, which is essentially a destructive product in large quantities because it shifts the preference of the cells away from oxidative metabolism toward glycolytic fermentation. This is just one possibility, but from what I can see, simply guessing what the problem may be is probably not going to solve any issues. The investment in testing is totally worth it in the long run, because that money may be spent on supplements which are either ineffective or at worst... detrimental. Genova Diagnostics have a comprehensive digestive test called "GI Effects" which should shine light on what is really going on down there.

Thanks Keyhole! I've just sent out an email to what I believe is the Canadian Branch to Geneva Diagnostics. I've told them my situation and asked if they can recommend a physician in the area that they work with to get the GI testing done so I'm hoping something pans out. I'm actually going to stop doing the probiotic enema's after today, at least for a while and wait to hear what they say. Normally I do a regular water enema to clear things out before the probiotic one, and noticed that it was really the water one and the 'holding in' from taking in a lot of water which was diffusing the inflammation and grogginess in the morning. Foxx brought up a good point about holding the Probiotic enema in all day, and usually I use a lot of water for that so only hold it for several minutes with the same pattern of 'resisting the urge to purge' and it's really that that seems to be having a bigger effect, so I reduced the amount of liquid in the probiotic one and retained it all day and actually didn't feel well at all. There was a lot of aches and pains/inflammation, a heaviness on my chest and shortness of breathe. So I'm not sure if it's connected specifically to the effects of the probiotic enema or not because these symptoms have been pretty regular on/off for years now, but will try just the water in the morning for the next week or so, see how things go and then move on to coffee again.

Have you also considered the possibility of a biofilm in your digestive tract somewhere? I'm treating one at the moment and have a theory that having one makes it such that good bacteria can't properly colonize the digestive tract. So if you had one, then perhaps you would get temporary relief from the probiotic enemas, but not lasting relief since they're not colonizing. But again, that's just a theory.

I'd have to look more into the biofilms and how to treat it. I didn't keep up with AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN INFECTION? thread although lately I have started to wonder if I don't have some nasty critters that might require some nuking. So I'll start looking into that ASAP.

 

[TheTodd]

I noticed that I had a hard time of holding even small amounts of fluid at the beginning when I started with the enemas and now can hold much more and am better able to hold it in. I guess Gurdjieff's saying about holding it in, while doing hard physical work, was one of his methods to first: clean the "lower" floors, second: get things moving properly between gut and brain, third: building up strengths and will by "holding back". From experience I can say that the holding back takes quite some mental and physical discipline, especially after a while of it being in your guts. Seems to me that this "holding back" could be a good practise for the mind and the "lower" floors or body in general.

That is interesting that Gurdjieff would be doing enema's daily and have his students doing the same! I'm not so sure about the upwards of 54 glasses though that Gurdjieff claimed he did once. Is that even possible? I can hold in a maximum of 1 cup and not for very long, maybe several minutes at the longest. But I recently started doing the probiotic enema's first thing in the morning rather than in the evenings and it is a really good way of starting off the day. Usually I have a lot of background anxiety in the mornings with an intense urge to do something, but I'm actually a lot calmer and clear headed after doing the enema today. So it's definitely activating the vagus nerve, and actually I suspect that the 'holding back' is what stimulates it, because every time the urge to purge comes on and I 'resist' it, I get a lot of gurgling and but also am calmer after the resistance subsides and the bathroom seems a lot more vivid in color and perception.

Very interesting.
After reading this, I remembered that the rectal sphincter and belly button are contracted towards one another while holding the coffee in. There is an abdominal exercise that recommends something similar:

[quote author=Pavel Tsatsouline - Power to the people]
Here is an abdominal exercise recommended by Prof. Vladimir Zatsiorsky, a leading Russian strength authority who betrayed the Dark Side of the Force and immigrated to the US. The ex-Soviet professor cites a double-blind study that showed this type of exercise to be superior any other.

After a normal inhalation—earlier Soviet research by Vorobyev recommends 75% of your maximal air intake—contract your abs while keeping your glottis closed and the rectal sphincter contracted. Expel your air forcefully in three to five seconds. Make fists if it helps you (just another demonstration of your body’s interdependence and how to use it to your advantage). You can make this drill even more effective the karate way by adding a grunt after you have supposedly expelled all your air.

The prof recommends ten to fifteen contractions per set, three to four sets spread throughout the day, every day. You know me. I would double the sets and halve the reps.

Strong abs also happen to be the best insurance policy against hernias, according to Zatsiorsky. Like a submarine hull, they should stop your guts from protruding. The professor states that comrades with strong backs but weak stomachs face the highest risk of hernias. So it may be a good idea to practice his drill for awhile before pulling really heavy deadlifts.

Zatsiorsky’s Shaolin fighting monk style drill will not only strengthen your abs, but also the diaphragm and other muscles that generate high intra-abdominal pressure. It will teach you how to use them to contain the pent up pressure inside you and not let your gut hang out when you lift (a no-no!). This skill comes in handy for minimizing your odds of back injuries and hernias.

Naturally, your overall strength is increased via the pneumo-muscular reflex. Mas Oyama, a Japanese karate master famous for battling bulls unarmed and chopping their horns off barehanded (!), regularly practiced drills of this type to build up his might. If you are heavily into abs, you will find many unique midsection exercises from full contact karate, old time strong men, and the X-files labs of Eastern Europe in my book Beyond Crunches: Hard Science. Hard Abs. Call Dragon Door Publications at (800) 899-5111 and order a copy!

The rectal sphincter contraction recommended by Zatsiorsky as a part of his abdominal drill not only increases the inside pressure and amplifies one’s strength, it also acts as an insurance against hemorrhoids. People inexperienced in lifting correctly tend to let their intestines go when they strain. Such a style of lifting could lead to hemorrhoids and offers no performance advantage. It is interesting that Chinese Chi Kung masters have been pulling their anuses up during their esoteric practices for centuries.
[/quote]

Pavel Tsatsouline is best known as a kettlebell trainer with his books and videos.

 

[Galaxia2002]

here was a lot of aches and pains/inflammation, a heaviness on my chest and shortness of breathe. So I'm not sure if it's connected specifically to the effects of the probiotic enema or not because these symptoms have been pretty regular on/off for years now, but will try just the water in the morning for the next week or so, see how things go and then move on to coffee again.

Hi Turgon, thinking about what you told, maybe it is not so healthy to retain the enema so much time, the body can interpret that water so much time there as a liquid diarrhea and produce a series of reactions that not feel good as a mechanism to force an evacuation. On the other hand, the water of the enema should have some salts to have a proper electrolytic balance, because if the water has no salts, you have the risk to enter in a electrolytic disbalance which can be dangerous.

This quote is for enema for constipation, but I think is still valid:

Because enemas can cause dehydration, overuse of enemas can create serious health problems. Use of enemas for constipation on a regular basis can lead to an electrolyte imbalance in the body called hyponatremia, in which the blood becomes diluted and its salt content becomes lower than normal. Hyponatremia can cause muscle spasms and swelling of the brain that leads to mental impairment. This is a particular concern when using enemas with plain tap water.

 

[Gaby]

This quote is for enema for constipation, but I think is still valid:

Because enemas can cause dehydration, overuse of enemas can create serious health problems. Use of enemas for constipation on a regular basis can lead to an electrolyte imbalance in the body called hyponatremia, in which the blood becomes diluted and its salt content becomes lower than normal. Hyponatremia can cause muscle spasms and swelling of the brain that leads to mental impairment. This is a particular concern when using enemas with plain tap water.

Yes, it can be dangerous when the enema provokes an electrolyte imbalance. Here is a reminder:

https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,13371.msg670631.html#msg670631

Here is another concept to keep in mind for those experimenting with water enemas:

_http://www.zity.biz/index.php?mx=forum;ox=display;topic=3193

Osmosis. If your enema solution has more salt (hypertonic) than what the normal cells of the body and blood have, it will absorb water from your body. If the solution has less or no salt(hypotonic) it will be absorbed by the body. To try and match the salt content (isotonic) so that water is less likely to be absorbed either way you want to try and get as close to a 0.9% solution.

If you pee too much after a water retention enema, whether it has probiotics or not, you know that you are absorbing too much water because the enema has no salt.

How do you match a physiological solution of 0.9%? Just add one and a half teaspoons of salt per every liter of water:

_http://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/svc/alpha/c/colorectal/question-answer/saline-recipe.htm
We recommend exactly one and a half teaspoons of salt for every liter of water. [0.9%]

We recommend exactly one and a half teaspoons of salt in one liter (1000ml) of water. Putting excessive amounts of salt in the water of an enema may have serious negative consequences, such as seizures and coma. The safest saline solution is that one prepared by a pharmaceutical laboratory. It is called Normal Saline Solution (0.9 percent).

_http://www.zity.biz/index.php?mx=forum;ox=display;topic=3193

FOR A PHYSIOLOGICAL SALT SOLUTION YOU NEED EXACTLY 9 GRAMS PER QUART OR LITER--WEIGH IT. THAT WILL MAKE A 0.9% SOLUTION.

1 1/2 MEASURING TEASPOONS PER QUART OR LITER NOT TABLEWARE will be close.

I never did this to the coffee enema though. As it is explained in Gerson's article, the coffee enema has electrolytes of its own and less than one liter shouldn't reach the traverse colon.

The coffee is circulated through the enterohepatic circulation from the descending colon and rectum vessels to the liver. No need to do any crazy "dance" during your enema, although lying on your right side and breathing deeply is recommended.

 

[Bluefyre]

Thank you for starting this thread Turgon and for the links to supplies and the best kind of coffee to use. I've been doing the coffee enemas for just over a month now. The first thing I noticed was a marked improvement in my sleep. I'd been having discomfort in my liver, especially before and during the flu and that has gone. I notice I'm passing a lot of tiny gallstones.

 

[Turgon]

Hey everyone,

I bought a gold blend of organic green coffee beans specifically for enema's and noticed a big difference between using that and actual dark roast enema coffee. It smelled differently, looked differently and seemed to be as effective as doing a regular water enema. So in case you come across that, it's probably ideal to skip that, IMO. Here's what one website had to say.

https://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/best-enema-coffee/

Dark Roast Coffee Better than Light

When considering the type of coffee to use, lighter roasts or green coffee beans are not optimal. This suggestion is not in accordance with what is suggested by the Gerson Institute which recommends lightly roasted enema coffee. Beware also of coffee specifically labeled as “golden coffee” or “enema coffee” as these are frequently light roasts too.

Why are darker roasts probably better?

The journal Molecular Nutrition & Food Research published research favoring dark roast coffee over light for restoring blood levels of glutathione, the mother of all antioxidants. What’s more, the 2011 study concluded that dark roast coffee promoted weight loss better. It also combats the problem of excess stomach acid production that plagues some coffee drinkers (2).

Research presented by the American Chemical Society in 2010 claims that the beneficial compound N-methylpyridinium (NMP) not present in green coffee beans is created during the roasting process. The darker the roast, the more NMP is created. Stomach cells exposed to coffee compounds increased acid secretion with the exception of cells exposed to the same compounds containing NMP.

For these reasons, darker roast enema coffee may prove easier on the intestinal tract and produce higher levels of antioxidants in the blood.

Choose Single Origin Whole Bean Coffee Instead of a Blend

From a quality standpoint, coffee blends are inferior to whole beans from a single source that you grind yourself.

Single source coffee more likely involved a higher level of care and standards during coffee production. Coffee blends take beans from a variety of places and mix them until the overall taste is acceptable.

Best to select a coffee that achieves the necessary quality with no mixing necessary!

 

[Bluefyre]

Thanks Turgon, this is very timely for me. I've been using the S.A. Wilson and will switch to the recommended dark roast, single estate beans and grind them myself.

 

[lainey]

I've heard a few people talk about a brand called Death Wish Coffee which is meant to be the strongest coffee in the world. Has anyone tried it? I'm kind of thinking it's just a gimmick to sell coffee. Is stronger necessarily better for enemas or is it just that darker is better than lighter?

_https://www.amazon.co.uk/Death-Wish-Coffee-Strongest-Organic/dp/B006CNTR6W/ref=pd_sim_325_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=NC2JKBAY9MC2PFGD91BM